Molkaice

I used reavers in a recent game with friends. I think they did well acting as a back up objective taker while my hammer/anvil kept the opponent in their deployment zone. Flipping tides and alpha striking works really well in 3.0

A tide caster would be a good option, however (and I'm probably an outlier) I can't find a reason I'd play spell casters in our army still. We only have one enclave for "a" plus to cast and rerolls are limited. Against the big boy casters it feels a bit of a waste. Still who knows with the new edition, I tried running a mixed eel list with eidolon and I'm not sure I like how it felt. I just want thralls to be something I can charge in without putting them down as all or nothing units (win or you're all gone by end of combat). I'm going to try to play my friends in the next week or so with the new rules and hopefully I can pull put something together that is more fun

Wow our ship took a hit, having it be in your territory really stops deployment shenanigans. Is it worth it to even bring it still?

I'm going to wait for 3.0 to be out in full and try some games but I may be holding off on deepkin u till they get a new book. Of all times the age of the book is really being felt now, it just feels like we have schizophrenia in our army and too many units that you want to avoid fielding or are too expensive to field how I want.

How did thralls become the best unit? They still have a paper thin save, difficulty with 2-3 wound models, and the 1 inch reach. Honestly the biggest issue is still the new rules making it only 5 that can get into combat, it means regardless of the bonus it's still half as effective

You're right I can't find the calculation method that the quote references. So hopefully we can keep that 2+, however I do need to reevaluate the way of using Morsarr (however when I tried some 3.0 rules it was against FEC terrogheist only army).

If the modifier is done prior then any +1 would be negated by rend prior to the unrendable portion coming into play right? So the ishlaen would just be a 3/4+ always for the most part. It not bad, but its hard to swallow the point increase and unit sizes pushing to MSU and use them like before (ishlaen or morsarr)

So now Ishlaen are essentially just 4+/3+ always as everything has rend now and saves can't stack. Wow rend is going to make everything die faster. I don't know if I'm going to use IDK much until their new book comes as I've never been a fan of using MSU eels as it always feels like they really lack killing power for any sizeable unit. I think finding an alternative build is better than leaning on MSU.

So reading the warscroll for shield eels it doesn't say "+1" to their save if they charge but that their save becomes a 3+ so technically wouldn't they still get the +1 to the new save anyway? As for point changes, it hurts but all it will show is that the same stuff will be used anyway. Thralls, soulrender, lotann, and aspect of sea are still hard to play outside of super fluff fun games with someone who also brings really bad models. I'm amused that the tide caster went up even though its rarely used, like why add 5 points to a unit I picked once in a blue moon?

For some reason as I think about it I have a bad feeling that the soulscryers ability may become a command ability instead of innate. I really don't want them to just take current abilities and put it behind a command point cost wall to "give" IDK more command abilities to the army.

If Thralls got 2" reach would that bring them into usable with the new rules? Also other than making eels battleline is the use of kings as generals closer to a 50/50 with tidecaster? I mean reavers can be pretty good with the new command abilities. I mean getting charged but shooting 30 shots on 5s isn't terrible, and other synergies to boost their attacks helps. I'm excited to see how 3.0 shapes up for our now ancient tome, at this point its between us and nurgle for whose base rules are outdated.

My thought process goes to how long eels stay as a battlelin option. There's always the possibility it gets shifted into an enclave specific role and we're forced to use namarti. I doubt GW wants to have models they cant move/sell

we lost the square bases and regimented combat from fantasy...and now they have created rules to bring that structure right back in lol. Weapon ranges have to increase or just live with fielding smaller units, on a smaller board so you don't have units sitting and doing nothing.

Is it me or does the new coherency rule pretty much make hordes almost impossible to work with? I mean elite armies will thrive with this but any 10 man unit cant' pile in without losing models.

So with a smaller board size (44" x 60") and our new book in the eventual future will IDK keep their high movement advantage? I mean this will be a huge boost to shooting, but turn one charging on a board that size is even easier for IDK.

I know this isnt really where the discussion topic is but I have a few wishes for the updated book that I'd like to see: More command abilities and hopefully unlocked command abilities for heroes Give the Enclaves some actual worthwile abilities (change tides of death table more or enhance certain aspects like cover giving +2 or deepstrike being anywhere outside of 9") Make High Tide something like Ironjawz smashing and bashing possibly so it doesn't feel so devastating or swingy (I feel bad when I double turn into turn 3 and hit with buffed up eels, its just not what I want to do sometimes) new models that provide either better infantry or less expensive/more practical bravery buff options (I swear battleshock is more of a problem than losses in combat) create some synergy between the namarti and akhelian units (or don't, I honestly don't mind the clear separation between the two) Fix prayers Fix Lotann I would be excited to see some of these come in or be evaluated as options. My biggest wish is honestly giving deepkin an exclusive ability to stop other armies prayers. It would be a cool idea that they can stop priest from being able to speak to their gods like an unbind.

the recent silence/lack of post may be that everyone is holding their breath as a new book is likely not that far off. We could get some nice updates or end up like sylvaneth so...a little trepidation. However I still think aesthetics and current gameplay the army is worth getting. Sharks are usable and fun, namarti allow for a good toned down list, you can play most of the heroes (even the eidolons) depending on how you feel, and the turtle is amazing. If you want to be the bane of your friends (a route I took :D) you can grab some eels and wreck face still.

Can we say embailors and possibly sea creature loadouts will be a ting for the army in the new book?

In a way for that to work you'd have to declare a charge, and I'm pretty sure you can just roll and charge whatevers in range. So would it be like: 1. You charge successfully into a unit 2. Unit retreats 3. You possibly chase? In that case my question is can I change my target to another one if I'm chasing. It does seem to add more options which is good, but I think you'll get units stranded from fail charges so shooting and defensive armies will become very powerful.

I think it depends on how reactions work. Can you react to every charge? Do you have to select the reaction before you know you're being charged? Will charges be declared and conducted in a particular order? Can you delay a reaction to a charge in response only a particular unit? Is it clear how it will work already or is it all speculation still?

I'll agree the turtle has become on chunky boi that actually has synergy and worth being on the table instead of more eels. But IDK has the same problems as before that im usually surprised no one abuses. Low bravery and lack of MW resistance. I'd rather swallow the turtle being where it is instead of putting me back into a mindset of "why am I taking this over eels?" I mean I finally see a light for a casual list using reavers now, why push IDK players back to the sweet crack that is eel spam?

Considering the heavy casting armies out there, just being able to reroll two spells isn't exactly buff enough. If you want to +1 to casting you have to be Ionrach and that still isn't going to put you on even footing with lumineth, death, seraphon, or tzeetch. Doesn't help that his warscroll spells are pretty short range.

With the revamp of the eidolons what role does the aspect of the sea fits? The storm makes sense a force multiplier and can make everything hit harder (and shoot better as well), but outside of the bravery buff I don't see why I'd use aspect of the sea

Something I haven't seen discussed yet (maybe it has and I just missed it) but which enclave is better for an akhelian heavy list: Dhom Hain or Fuethan? Also something that has been on my mind with the recent changes to the turtle is it possible make a working defensive list. like a bunch of shield eels with turtles and some namarti as hammers? Would this make the Nautilar a possibly good tank faction? I think the idea of zipping to a spot and sitting on a point with 2+ unrendable units is interesting.

I've found the number of drops I want depends on the power projection of my opponent. I prefer to go a second usually, especially against armies that lack movement or rely on close combat it allow me to use turn 1 to set up for turn 2 charges for anything they overextend.