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AoS 2 - Legion of Sacrament Discussion

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Welcome to the new Legion of Sacrament discussion thread!  Following on from the release of the second edition Age of Sigmar rules, this thread is the main thread to talk about all things related the Legion of Sacrament allegiance of Grand Alliance Death.  For new players Legion of Sacrament is ruled by the Mortarch, Arkhan the Black one of Nagash, God of Death's most loyal servants and arguably one of the most magic orientated allegiances within Age of Sigmar.

We do encourage people to create your own threads talking about your armies, home written fan fiction, conversions and paint jobs (not everybody frequents the painting forum), but this thread will be the central place to talk tactics, list building and general conversation and similar.  You all know the drill!

For easy reference, here's a link to the old Let's Chat thread, it still contains lots of gems of information!  http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/15909-lets-chat-legions-of-nagash/

The following Warhammer Communities article is also worth a read: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/31/legions-nagash-legion-sacrament/

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3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Super hyped to bring my Sacramant list over into 2e!!

What's your list look like? Are you going to add any endless spells to it?

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My own old sacrament list was a more casual lords/deathmarch combo.  Unfortunately, between the 50 point increase to deathmarch, 60 point increase to lords, and introduction of endless spells, I don't think that combo will still work as well at 2k points.

Trying to adapt to 2e, it's looking like:

  • Arkhan The Black (320)
  • Necromancer (110)
  • Necromancer (110)
  • Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120) - Skeletal Steed
  • 40 x Skeleton Warriors (280) - Ancient Spears
  • 10 x Skeleton Warriors (80) - Ancient Blades
  • 10 x Skeleton Warriors (80) - Ancient Blades
  • 5 x Black Knights (120)
  • 10 x Grave Guard (160) - Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
  • Mortis Engine (180)
  • Deathmarch (160)
  • Lords of Sacrament (130)

Total: 1850 / 2000
Wounds: 118

150 points left over for endless spells, probably portals, palisades, cogs.  Wound total is rather light for my taste.  Has to drop the grave guard down significantly to fit points.  In the end, I was already considering dropping the deathmarch after the faq.  2e changes might push me to finally do so.

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To lord or not to lord? 
Is the battelion worht it?

I would love to write an indepth article that everybody could pick to the bone. But to be fair, all I have is theory and just to little games/matched play under by belt.
So if anybody reads something and likes to mathhammer or give some anecdotal proof of what works and doesn't, I'll be happy to edit it in my posts.. eventually getting a solid amount of information that everybody can interpet on his/her own terms! So that's me trying to outsource good writing ;)


The small undeniable fact and kick off, the cost!

Arkah, Mortis, 2x Necro = 720, and the cost for the battelion is 130, bringing the total to 850.

So that leaves us with 1150 points.

 You could argue that you get 50 points back because of the extra command point. But you can spend it on plastic, that's a fact.
850...

If you run double necro, you got access to Macab and running the best battleline death seems like a good idea (not talking about wolves :P). 3x280 = 840 points worth of skelletons may seem like a bad idea. But I recently purchased movement trays, so I like it.
So 840 more 1690...

Every time i play versus another army what strikes be as "unfair" is the mobility some armies have. Death doesn't have it if you play with 120 skellies, but if you ever played starcraft a Protoss deathball sounds like an actual strategy.

I do want to run utility endless spells; cronomatic cogs for increased charge and run speed and umbral spellportal to keep the casters save casting dance macab from a greater distance!
That's 120.. 1810..

A bit lord light, adding a vampire lord seems like a good way to drop some skellies from a gravesite near enemies!

140.. 1950.

50 points = command point!

So that's it I'm done theory crafting this part...

1x Arkhan
1x Mortis Engine
2x Necro
1x Vampire lord
3x 40 Skellies
1x Umbral spellportal
1x Chronomantic Cogs
1x Command point
____
2000 points

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Battalion will be brilliant I think if realm spells get used alot. Think of all the spells.

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I think they will still be the next best to go if you dont have Nagash there... Especially with the Spellportal you are more flexible than ever with spellreach, so it will not be such a problem to keep the bunch togheter.  And if some nasty endless Spell like purple sun gets thrown your way you can still just throw the ME in the way and block it until arkhan had time to dispell it^^

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I'm thinking of running a very spell heavy army. Attempting to take advantage of the battalion.

Arkhan (spectral grasp or amaranthine orb)

Necromancer (overwhelming dread)

Necromancer  (fading vigour)

Necromancer (soul harvest)

Vampire Lord (spirit gale)

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dore Wolves

10 Zombies 

20 Grimghast Reapers 

12 Mymourn Banshees

Corpse Cart (still unsure on this one)

Mortis Engine

Lords of Sacrament

Umbral Spellportal

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh

Athervoid Pendulum

1990

The list throws out a bucket of debuffs and a bucket full of mortal wounds aim would be to debuff main death stars and delete heroes early with spells. The Necromancers are at plus 3 to cast and Arkhans at plus 5. 

The units are a little small but they pack an offensive punch with vanhels and extra attacks from the vampire lord. 

Grimghasts attempt to take out hordes while banshees eat endless spells and target more armoured threats due to -2 rend. 

I can't wait to play test it, I know it will have its counters but it looks fun.

 

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The Legion of Sacrement seems to have a lot of potiential list build suggestions. Here’s what I’m thinking about:

 

Vampire Lord (general, steed)

Vampire Lord (wings)

4x Necromancers

1x Corpse Cart

1x 60 Zombies

2x 30 Dire Doggies

3x 2 Bat Swarms

 

2000 pnts.

246 wounds.

 

The idea here is to emphasis resilience and board control. What do you think?

 

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you just dont get any real dmg dealers so not sure you can kill much but sure if its a control mission it looks good takes much time to kill 60 dog and 60 zombies but becarefull they dont snipe your general then cause in matched play you dont get a new one as far as i know

 

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11 hours ago, Rahr said:

you just dont get any real dmg dealers so not sure you can kill much but sure if its a control mission it looks good takes much time to kill 60 dog and 60 zombies but becarefull they dont snipe your general then cause in matched play you dont get a new one as far as i know

 

Maybe I should make one of the necromancers as the general? With -1 from the bats, -1 from the new hero targeting rule and their 4+ wound hand off rule, it would take a lot of shooting to get him. I want the general to have the Master of Death trait so the zombies get some extra movement. Having a necromancer as general would free up the Vampires to move around away from the zombies, given the general has to stay close to the zombies to grant the extra movement.

 

I’d like to split up one of the units of doggies also. Lots of small units of doggies have more chance of charging stuff and can spread out. What if I replaced one necromancer with a Cairn Wraith? The Cairn Wraith would give some protection to the necromancers from being charged. But at the cost of one wound, one spell and 2D3 resurrection. 

 

So the list would look like this:

 

Necromancer (general, mastery of death)

2x Vampire Lords (steeds or wings)

2x Necromancers 

1x Cairn Wraith

1x Corpse Cart

1x 60 Zombies

1x 30 Dire Doggies

6x 5 Dire Doggies

3x 2 Bat Swarms

1990 points.

245 wounds.

 

I think 5 spells to caste is still enough to caste the needed spells and still have enough casting attempts to take over the opponent’s endless spells.

 

On the table, the bats and MSU doggies, supported by vampires, move forward to disrupt the opposing army. Zombies, necromancers, wraith and corpse cart would to engage the centre. The large unit of doggies follows up as reserve and basically occupies space.

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Ironically I want to go back to my original LoN tournament list (LoS+deathmarch) but can’t due to going up 110 points. Deathmarch isn’t really playable anymore though unfortunately, so that list isn’t so good anymore.

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3 hours ago, ianob said:

Deathmarch isn’t really playable anymore though unfortunately,

So why is that? I've actually designed a Deathmarch list under the GHoN allegiance, and it seems pretty brutal on paper,:

Arkhan the Black

Necromancer

Wight King (still not sure if sword&shield or axe)

Deathmarch battalion

x40 skeletons with spears

x10 skeletons with swords & shields

x10 skeletons with swords & shields

x30 Grave Guard with greatblades

x2 Morghast Harbingers with halberds

x5 Black Knights

Endless Spell: Spellportal

Extra Command Point

This provides tons of survability and resilience to all skeleton units due to Deathmarch (1 model returned every turn),  Legions Innumerable and the 3 heroes' Endless Legions ability as well as gravesites. Some hammer units with Morghasts (with the +1 attack from GHoN) and 30 Grave Guard. Fast movement with Deathmarch, Black Knights and Morghasts. A Spellportal to take advantage of magic (specially Arkhan's Curse of Years), though this could be replaced by a more defensive Endless Spell.

And 1 extra command point to get the most out of the Command Abilities (specially Wight King), which means starting the game with 3 Command Points (not bad at all).

What do you think?

Edited by ogmaadn

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This is where I'm aiming until I buy some endless spell stuff, which might be a while.

Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
Mortis Engine (180)
Lords of Sacrament (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
 

I still think Morghast Harbinger  & Hexwraiths are generally underrated and should be considered.

VLoZD loses a lot of value with heroes being more survivable, he's got a big target as usual. But he still hits hard and survives for a long time. Synergizes well with Mortis Engine's ability to heal. Can sprint up field and summon slow spirit hosts.

With command abilities costing resources, the VLoZD can now use his powerful Dread Knight on select units to act as a second Van Hels in a way. Really what you want then is multiple units that hit really hard when buffed, I think that will be a key strategy with Death moving forward. As your summonable units hold the lines and win attrition wars, your s I think the biggest candidates are:

40 Skelly

4 Morghast Harbinger w/ Halberd

10+ Hexwraiths

6-12 Spirit Hosts

15-30 Grave Guard

 

This is what I'll be trying. If you want to try the purple sun, drop the 6 hosts and -5 direwolves for 5 Hexwraiths and the 100 for Purple Sun.

 

 

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19 hours ago, ogmaadn said:

So why is that? I've actually designed a Deathmarch list under the GHoN allegiance, and it seems pretty brutal on paper,:

Arkhan the Black

Necromancer

Wight King (still not sure if sword&shield or axe)

Deathmarch battalion

x40 skeletons with spears

x10 skeletons with swords & shields

x10 skeletons with swords & shields

x30 Grave Guard with greatblades

x2 Morghast Harbingers with halberds

x5 Black Knights

Endless Spell: Spellportal

Extra Command Point

This provides tons of survability and resilience to all skeleton units due to Deathmarch (1 model returned every turn),  Legions Innumerable and the 3 heroes' Endless Legions ability as well as gravesites. Some hammer units with Morghasts (with the +1 attack from GHoN) and 30 Grave Guard. Fast movement with Deathmarch, Black Knights and Morghasts. A Spellportal to take advantage of magic (specially Arkhan's Curse of Years), though this could be replaced by a more defensive Endless Spell.

And 1 extra command point to get the most out of the Command Abilities (specially Wight King), which means starting the game with 3 Command Points (not bad at all).

What do you think?

First off, I really like your list here.  That said, I understand people's reservations.  Our batallions are all pretty lackluster, and considered in a vacuum, I don't think there's ever a reason to take any of them.  However, we don't play in a vacuum, and given what we know about 2.0, I do think that Deathmarch is a reasonable pick. 

19 hours ago, ogmaadn said:

And 1 extra command point to get the most out of the Command Abilities (specially Wight King), which means starting the game with 3 Command Points (not bad at all).

I think your math is a bit off, because I count 1970 points, not enough for another CP.   

More importantly, you will only start the game with the CP from the batallion, as you generate CPs at the start of your own hero phase.  This is important because without a batallion, you will always want to short your list by 50 to ensure you have access to a first-turn reactive command ability if needed.  A Batallion solves for that, so its true cost is price -50. 

Batallions also give access to another artefact, and the new battleplans prioritize Wizards and Characters with Artefacts.  

The only part of your list I'm unsure about are, surprisingly, the Morghasts.  They are a scarey unit for sure, but you are essentially paying a 30 point tax on them because of your list build, and I'd be tempted to try and be more point efficient and double-down on either more casters or summonables or some combination of both.  But I definitely could be worried about nothing here.

Nice job!

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Anyone considering bringing in the new Nighthaunt stuff into their LoS list? The Wizards seem pretty ok if nothing else.

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I'm considering Reikenor cuz I love the model and he could make a nice little assistant to Arkhan and drop an ES.

What I'm wondering is what's the consensus on Lords of Sacrament now? An additional 60pts means you're paying 310 for that Mortis engine. Sure, you get a CP and artefact, but that's 15% of your army right there

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2 hours ago, Vortumnas said:

I'm considering Reikenor cuz I love the model and he could make a nice little assistant to Arkhan and drop an ES.

I'm thinking about taking him as well. 2D3+1 Mortal Wounds with +1 casting against regular targets, or +3 to casting if you really need to get an important Endless Spell off, like Cogs or Spellportal. Plus he's no slouch in melee especially against hordes.

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I'm finally starting my death army and building Legions of Sacrament using some of the new Nighthaunts. Played exclusively SCE previously so looking for hordes and heavy magic for a polar opposite to my previous play style.  A few of my friends are starting the gaming side of AoS having being purely hobbyists previously. We are aiming for 1250 points with 2 battleline requirements for our first gaming day. I'm planning to go with:

  • Arkhan the Black
  • Necromancer
  • Guardian of Souls
  • 20x Skeletons with Spears
  • 20x Chainrasp Hordes
  • 5x Dire Wolves
  • 2x Morghast Harbringers with Halberds
  • 80 points on endless spells (not sure which yet)

I have a couple of questions though

  1. Has there been any clarification on which spell lore the Guardian of Souls can pick from in a legions of Nagash list?
  2. How should I spend my 80 points in the list. Endless Spells for the 80 points... if so any recommendations, or CP and 30 points in spells

Cheers guys

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4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

He does look good. What about Olynder for extra heals?

I'd like to include her, she's a great buff for hosts and rasps, but in a Sacrament list she'd have to be taken in addition to Arkhan, since she's a mortarch, and I've had trouble figuring how to make the two synergize. She's slow, and likely won't take the enemies focus off Arkhan for a couple turns, so you need another hammer to help keep A alive. I l like a VLoZD with Pinions for that, but at that point it's 1000pts for 3 models.

3 hours ago, Teuchter said:
  1. Has there been any clarification on which spell lore the Guardian of Souls can pick from in a legions of Nagash list?

Been wondering this myself. If anybody knows, I'm all ears

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Hmm, the new warscroll builder works.

 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Necromancer (110)
- General
- Trait: Mastery of Death  
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Black Gem  
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Cairn Wraith (60)

Battleline
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
10 x Dire Wolves (120)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
60 x Zombies (320)

Units
2 x Bat Swarms (80)
2 x Bat Swarms (80)
2 x Bat Swarms (80)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 225
 

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Just curious- think there's any value in using Sacrament for a speed list? +1 to casting so easier Cogs for +2" move and +2" charge, then Mastery of Death for +3" move for a total average of 18" average threat range for move+charge (3"+4"+2" move plus ~7"+2" charge).

Likewise you could use the Emissary of the Master trait for re-rolling charge distance ability instead, combo with Cogs for impossibly reliable 9" charges when you use Endless Legions.

Any value in these sorts of abilities, or does Sacrament not really have need of movement-increasing abilities?

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Hmmm, it’s a tough one, I’ve never needed a huge amount of move as a lot of what I have has 9+’’ move and I want the spell points for the portal. This is what I currently have, not mega-competitive or anything;

 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness  
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Prison of Grief
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
Mortis Engine (180)
Lords of Sacrament (130)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

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7 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Hmmm, it’s a tough one, I’ve never needed a huge amount of move as a lot of what I have has 9+’’ move and I want the spell points for the portal. This is what I currently have, not mega-competitive or anything;

 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness  
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Prison of Grief
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
Mortis Engine (180)
Lords of Sacrament (130)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

This is very close to what I've been considering, but with Chainrasps and hosts instead of skellies and morghasts. Have you fielded it yet?

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