AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Beulettor]

Did they mention if the update on "Murderous Charge" will apply to skullcrushers and Lord on Juggernaut too ?

[andysonic1]

37 minutes ago, Beulettor said:

Did they mention if the update on "Murderous Charge" will apply to skullcrushers and Lord on Juggernaut too ?

No one's mentioned anything about it changing in that way which is why it took me by surprise. We lost an obscene number of MW on Bloodletters and gained a decent amount on MSU Bloodcrushers. If the other Juggernaut units get the same buff I could see me running a JuggerLord more often. Additionally this makes summoning Bloodcrushers more valuable.  Time to start taking Violent Urgency + Talisman of Burning Blood again!

[Coyote]

Honestly, I’m fine with the Bloodletter changes.  I feel setting the bomb was way more complicated and took way more $ for me to work than now.

i didn’t want to *have* to purchase Mortals, and intended to run Daemon only list.

i think they’re striking their own now without have to spend 3 character slots and 300+ points just to augment my other unit. 

My 330 pt Bloodletters are now *better* on their own without the help, and still give massive wounds with assistance.  

We now have the chance to generate 2 wounds on a natural toll of 6 - so if we hitting on 3+ our math is actually a possible  (before saves) 1.25 wounds for every round of combat instead of 1.  

I think the math is better, and ultimately cheaper in both real life money and points we pay for the table.

[Mikeymajq]

Whoa, Bloodcrushers can have some serious impact now.  Not only will they get the d6 mortal wound way more often, but it went from a lousy 4+ to a 2+!!

you could potentially kill half a 10 man unit before combat with a good roll, that's pretty wild. Or at least bump off a Stormcast or two. 

now if you hit the same unit with more than one unit of bloodcrushers... *giggles in Khorne*

pretty stoked I have 9 of them now

 

I'm totally fine with them changing bloodletters. It was obviously coming too. Anything that pumps out 50+ mortal wounds in one go is obviously not in line with the rest of the game. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Mikeymajq

[Revan123]

On 12/15/2018 at 8:41 AM, Killax said:

@Revan123, fantastic army! Great job truely!

How to deal with other armies like mentioned? Unclear, Gore Pilgrims remains good, Blood Hunt remains good, as Fleshhounds recieved a minor buff but other than that yeah spam some mortals, hope that the anti-horde spells don't get to you I guess.

Thank you ^^

And the question was no need an actual answer, because not only math will say that it is impossible to beat this with current state of khorne.

I would not mind nerfing of bloodletters, if we was able to have another solid solition against strong units. But we have not or our units too expensive to feel that role. Like skullreapers.  170 pts for 5 man? Seriously?  For guys, who can hurt themselfs? Slow? Don't have any rerolls? 

Bloodcrushers are good, but not that good and still too expensive. D6 mortal wound are not reliable (even on 2+) and they can't stand against even mediocre fighting unit. For 450 poits or whatever it is 36 wounds (if they gave them the forth wound in 40k I don't now) against 30 for just 320 for letters. I still don't think that crushers are worth their points. 

Khorne needs rebalance badly. And only with points. We had suffered through shooting armies and armies with tough models or big blobs. And anything that fight back was killing letters. Now we got down right at the level of Tzeench. 

I don't know for your meta, but in our Russian meta I don't know how to stand now against even Ironjaw, Bonesplitters, Mamonts with mortal wounds and even Skaven. 

They nerfed the book since the beginning. No second bloodsecrator, no cheap batalions, no mortal wounds spam, more expensive units. In return we got nothing and meta of the game itself is working against Khorne, like it was with Tzeench, who can't cast and  can't shoot anymore. 

I don't know, I am just going to play with Scarbrand, Archaon, 2 thirsters and 30 reavers until they nerf compleately even crimson crown. Or just play nurgle, because there is no way they can nerf that army. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Revan123

[Dan.Ford]

As said above

 

Somewhere way back in this topic or even last edition I felt Bloodletters are what made Khorne competitively stick around, these  have been altered, which means the grip on t he competitive meta has been lost or is v ery  los e .

[azoxystrobin]

15 hours ago, Beulettor said:

Did they mention if the update on "Murderous Charge" will apply to skullcrushers and Lord on Juggernaut too ?

On the Twitch stream they did mention that, and they said there was no update on the other warscrolls for the moment, and that mortals would just have to work harder for it (staying on the 4+) whilst daemons are obviously in khorne's favour.

[andysonic1]

42 minutes ago, azoxystrobin said:

On the Twitch stream they did mention that, and they said there was no update on the other warscrolls for the moment, and that mortals would just have to work harder for it (staying on the 4+) whilst daemons are obviously in khorne's favour.

That's almost upsetting until you realize Mighty Skullcrushers are in a good place right now regardless.

[phizzco]

considering the damage should be coming from the mounts... seems like they should be aligned and both doing the same.

[andysonic1]

3 minutes ago, phizzco said:

considering the damage should be coming from the mounts... seems like they should be aligned and both doing the same.

I don't think anyone's ever accused Games Workshop of being consistent.

[azoxystrobin]

Oh boy if only GW was consistent !
We'd have an errata/FAQ for the battletome, with a new deck of updated warscroll cards, and a nice little blood tithe tracker (maybe like the nurgle wheel thing) and tokens...
But they're way too busy building hype for the next NEW box set pre-order now !

[azdimy]

Considering the poor quality of the binding of our battletome and all the warscroll changes we re seeing, a reprint would be more than welcome

[Agent of Chaos]

Has anyone noticed that according to the new Bloodcrusher warscroll, the unit no longer has a leader with +1 attack? Might be an error, or a minor nerf to offset their increased charge damage. They are meant to be ELITE bloodletters, yet have the same profile as regular blood letters and no leader with bonus attack.

Bloodletters still have a leader with +1 Attack but what is the point of the standard bearer in a unit of bloodletters (as opposed to the icon)? +1 to charge for each enemy hero the unit kills. Like how many times are they going to be in a position to charge after killing a hero??? Such a weird, situational benefit that you are very unlikely to remember even if it did become relevant so why would anyone take that over the icon?

On top of the near useless shooting attack for 1 in 5 flesh hounds, what the hell was GW thinking with these changes???

[andysonic1]

Keep in mind we don't know the point changes yet.

[Agent of Chaos]

@andysonic1 apparently the bloodcrushers came down by 10 points. No matter the points, removing the leader with +1 attack makes zero sense. Apart from the chance to do 6 mortal wounds on the charge they hit like pillows.

[Uveron]

Good Evening all!

Its been an age since I posted to this forum but I thought I would just chime in with my thoughts on Mortal Khorne in AOS 2.0. 

I have been having great success, but I do rely on alot of Slaves to Darkness Units... 

==

This is the list. 

BloodSecrator, (Gryh-Feather Charm)

SlaughterPriest x2 (One with+1 to hit, one with +1 Save) 

Exalted DeathBringer

Asspring DeathBringer

Deamon Prince (Immense Power, Axe-Anrahirs Claw) 

10X blood Warriors

10x Blood Reavers

20x Chaos Warriors Halbards

40x Marauders 

Soul Grinder 

Spawn 

Gore Pilgrims 

==

So the Warriors sit in a wall protecting the Priests and the Separator. 

The Aim of the list is not to take out the big monsters but secure objects. I have alot of tools and although I have no set plan for how buffs are dropped I have enough targets to make different parts of the army extra killy. 

The trick I have found is that to use blood tith to react to the battle. My only set plan is I aim to get 3 blood tithe by turn 2, so I can make a redeployment haveing a Soulgrinder Move twice, or even my Prince Fly 24.. changes the shape of the battle. So typicaly I push againt the whole table turn 1, and then turn 2 I push into a single point to secure an objective or take out a key part of the opponents force 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Uveron

[Silchas_Ruin]

From new FAQ:

Q: Some old abilities refer to a roll of 6. What does this mean exactly? A: If an ability refers to a roll of 6 (rather than a roll of 6+ or a roll of 6 or more), it means a roll of 6 after rerolls but before any modifiers are applied.

I had some arguements over this since AoS1 where it counted as 6+. Does it make Crimson Crown useless or can still be worth it?

[andysonic1]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Core-Rules-and-Bases-Sizes-EN.pdf

Flesh Hounds and Karanak are now on 60 x 35 mm bases. Time to start rebasing!

[Dan.Ford]

This so not funny, my Fleshhounds started on 25x50, then went to 60x35, then when to 50mm and now we are back to 60x35.!!!

When Events say models will removed if not based correctly and that you will lose points for not being cohesive.

Its ... annoying abit . 

But They do have a hard job, so back to rebasing again.

[kenshin620]

11 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said:

This so not funny, my Fleshhounds started on 25x50, then went to 60x35, then when to 50mm and now we are back to 60x35.!!!

When Events say models will removed if not based correctly and that you will lose points for not being cohesive.

Its ... annoying abit . 

But They do have a hard job, so back to rebasing again.

To be fair people were already complaining about rebasing when the daemon set was revealed to have oval based fleshhounds. Who was the bonehead who thought "hmmm fleshhounds should be on round bases....time to faq that!"🤔

Except Riptooth, he has to be a round base for Shadespire purposes I think.

 

Still surprised that they did not FAQ Mighty Lord of Khorne Fleshhound weapon. I know RAI they are 2 separate entities, but RAW the Fleshhound is just a weapon, so Mark of the Destroyer can be really funny.

Edited December 17, 2018 by kenshin620

[Roark]

7 hours ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

From new FAQ:

Q: Some old abilities refer to a roll of 6. What does this mean exactly? A: If an ability refers to a roll of 6 (rather than a roll of 6+ or a roll of 6 or more), it means a roll of 6 after rerolls but before any modifiers are applied.

I had some arguements over this since AoS1 where it counted as 6+. Does it make Crimson Crown useless or can still be worth it?

Well, if any suckers (like me) are still taking Bloodletters because they were easy to paint and there's a tournament in January, maximising no. of attacks is more critical than ever, and that can only be achieved through the Portal of Skulls, Wrathmongers and the Crimson Crown...

Short answer: yeah, kinda?

[Killax]

On 12/16/2018 at 3:24 PM, Revan123 said:

Thank you ^^

And the question was no need an actual answer, because not only math will say that it is impossible to beat this with current state of khorne.

I would not mind nerfing of bloodletters, if we was able to have another solid solition against strong units. But we have not or our units too expensive to feel that role. Like skullreapers.  170 pts for 5 man? Seriously?  For guys, who can hurt themselfs? Slow? Don't have any rerolls? 

Bloodcrushers are good, but not that good and still too expensive. D6 mortal wound are not reliable (even on 2+) and they can't stand against even mediocre fighting unit. For 450 poits or whatever it is 36 wounds (if they gave them the forth wound in 40k I don't now) against 30 for just 320 for letters. I still don't think that crushers are worth their points. 

Khorne needs rebalance badly. And only with points. We had suffered through shooting armies and armies with tough models or big blobs. And anything that fight back was killing letters. Now we got down right at the level of Tzeench. 

I don't know for your meta, but in our Russian meta I don't know how to stand now against even Ironjaw, Bonesplitters, Mamonts with mortal wounds and even Skaven. 

They nerfed the book since the beginning. No second bloodsecrator, no cheap batalions, no mortal wounds spam, more expensive units. In return we got nothing and meta of the game itself is working against Khorne, like it was with Tzeench, who can't cast and  can't shoot anymore. 

I don't know, I am just going to play with Scarbrand, Archaon, 2 thirsters and 30 reavers until they nerf compleately even crimson crown. Or just play nurgle, because there is no way they can nerf that army. 

Maby Bloodletters will be cheaper, I doubt it but it could occur. There is some hope in having a lot of units still for Blood Tithe point reasons, as before though, I don't think they will be cheaper. I still think Skullreapers are okay but this was in the context of Bloodletters being good or good enough.
Sadly Bloodletters is not where the edited 6's stop, I hear the Crimson Crown got an edit too.

Bloodcrushers as are still don't serve a true good purpose. Cheaper is nice, but yes I agree Khorne could use  "rebalance" or more specifically could use a content creator again that actually cares. Khorne indeed basically is the equivelant of where Destruction stands.

A lot got removed/altered and what we recieved in return is shooting with a Fleshhound leader and a "better" Karanak that likely is more expensive too. 

On 12/16/2018 at 3:52 PM, Dan.Ford said:

As said above

 

Somewhere way back in this topic or even last edition I felt Bloodletters are what made Khorne competitively stick around, these  have been altered, which means the grip on t he competitive meta has been lost or is v ery  los e .

Absolutely agree with this, I think we've even mentioned it during the first pages of this topic.
This is also why my focus isn't really on Khorne for a while now. Love the models, love the lore and look but this just doesn't add up for me.

Daughters of Khaine does better what Khorne used to do, heck even Slaanesh and Nurgle seem to form an army that better do what Khorne used to do.
Jokingly I made a list of what happened during the years with Khorne, more specifically marked what isn't around anymore:

• Sayl's flying Bloodletter Bombs
• Bloodsecrator's stacking
• Reliable Mortal Wound output
• Anti Magic

And to me this is the status of Khorne, we're sort of Anti Magic. There isn't anything in particular we do that others do not do or can't do better.

On 12/16/2018 at 6:02 PM, azoxystrobin said:

Oh boy if only GW was consistent !
We'd have an errata/FAQ for the battletome, with a new deck of updated warscroll cards, and a nice little blood tithe tracker (maybe like the nurgle wheel thing) and tokens...
But they're way too busy building hype for the next NEW box set pre-order now !

I think GW is pretty consistent in making NEW armies count and OLD stuff slowely irrelevant.

So the conclusion I can only come up with is indeed that Khorne might become a relevant competitive army again IF GW decides to update it for Age of Sigmar. As is I think this will occur after a 40K update so I think we'll be looking at this for at least 1,5 year in the future.

There is still fun to be had with the army and models, but I still don't see us doing much unless we get a new Age of Sigmar logo on the book. I only play Khorne though but I do believe it's very much in line with what GW did to Destruction, Desciples of Tzeentch etc. Somehow Seraphon dodged the 'first edition books become competitively irrelevant at larger events' bullet.

Despite this, I am truely happy with the new models. Do think it's bizzare why GW didn't do this way earlier and hope to see Fleshhounds in a seperate box very soon.

Cheers,
 

[Killax]

Well, the news is out: 

- Karnak, seventy more
- Bloodletters, same cost, directly nerfed in power
- Bloodcrushers, minus ten
- Fleshhounds, same cost, can do pew pew

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Killax

[Beulettor]

Karanak 160 points ? ******... Should I cancel my preorder :-/.

Flesh hounds + Slaughterpriest make 170 points. Not sur I will play Karanak anymore :-(.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Beulettor

[Killax]

3 minutes ago, Beulettor said:

Karanak 160 points ? ******... Should I cancel my preorder :-/.

Flesh hounds + Slaughterpriest make 170 points. Not sur I will play Karanak anymore :-(.