AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Charleston]

Btw Skullfind Triebe and Goretide affect as far as I can see also Slaves to Darkness units as they also obtain the keywords

[fwlr]

7 minutes ago, Impa said:

Nope. its 6" if you've used your rejoice in slaughter command ability. it overrides the 3".. 

"daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are 6" of an enemy unit instead of 3, and can  move an extra 3" when they pile in"

that's how i interpret it anyways. But im sure this will need to be FAQ to be certain. 

I don't think this is right. The wording on tyrants is a bit weird, in that you don't choose an eligible unit to fight with, instead they may pile in and strike if they ARE within 3", then cannot be chosen to fight again, unless reapers cmd abilty.  This is instead of choosing an eligible unit from this battalion and going before the opponent, which in the case of the UF would be units within 6. Quite nuanced this wording, might not be how its intended- check designers commentary?

[Impa]

11 minutes ago, fwlr said:

I don't think this is right. The wording on tyrants is a bit weird, in that you don't choose an eligible unit to fight with, instead they may pile in and strike if they ARE within 3", then cannot be chosen to fight again, unless reapers cmd abilty.  This is instead of choosing an eligible unit from this battalion and going before the opponent, which in the case of the UF would be units within 6. Quite nuanced this wording, might not be how its intended- check designers commentary?

Tyrants states "After a model from this battalion has fought in the combat phase for the first time, you can pick another model from the same battalion that has not yet fought in that combat phase and is within 3" of any enemy units. That model fights immediately, before the opposing player picks a unit to fight in that combat phase. That model cannot fight again in that combat phase unless an ability or spell allows it to fight more than once."

So one blood thirster from battalion fights, then the next, then the next (if eligible) AND if you have reapers vengeance yes you can attack twice since its an ability (if eligible in range of enemy unit). 

And to extend the reach from 3" to 6" you use your unfetted rejoice in slaughter command ability before this all goes down.. which clearly says "Until the end of the combat phase Khorne Daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are within 6" instead of 3"

So why can't you use this command ability in junction with your battalion ability? one ability buffs your battalion ability and then you can use more command points to use your reapers and attack again. BUT must be declared at start of combat phase.. so for this all to go off on your opponents turn is tough because i'm sure they'll catch on pretty quick. only the uninitiated wont see this coming.. And of course if your not within the 6" range at the start of your opponents combat phase.. why would you do any of this anyways? it would be pointless because your not in range... but if you are. Smash. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Impa

[fwlr]

Hmm.

You may be right, and that does make more sense, however it's the exact wording on tyrants making me ponder it. It states "After a model from this battalion has fought in the combat phase for the first time, you can pick another model from the same battalion that has not yet fought in that combat phase and is within 3" of any enemy units(not eligible to fight, but that thirster can only be chosen if they are within 3" of any enemy unit). That model fights immediately..." 

As it specifically states with 3, I don't see how this range on the warscroll battalion is increased the the CA which increases the range that a model is eligible to fight in the combat phase. 

Obviously, there's nothing stopping these thirsters fighting from 6 later in the combat phase, and there's probably nothing able to strike them, so it doesn't really make a difference. It only affects order of attackers, probably not even relevant to the company they are in.  

[Ravinsild]

15 minutes ago, Impa said:

Tyrants states "After a model from this battalion has fought in the combat phase for the first time, you can pick another model from the same battalion that has not yet fought in that combat phase and is within 3" of any enemy units. That model fights immediately, before the opposing player picks a unit to fight in that combat phase. That model cannot fight again in that combat phase unless an ability or spell allows it to fight more than once."

So one blood thirster from battalion fights, then the next, then the next (if eligible) AND if you have reapers vengeance yes you can attack twice since its an ability (if eligible in range of enemy unit). 

And to extend the reach from 3" to 6" you use your unfetted rejoice in slaughter command ability before this all goes down.. which clearly says "Until the end of the combat phase Khorne Daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are within 6" instead of 3"

So why can't you use this command ability in junction with your battalion ability? one ability buffs your battalion ability and then you can use more command points to use your reapers and attack again. BUT must be declared at start of combat phase.. so for this all to go off on your opponents turn is tough because i'm sure they'll catch on pretty quick. only the uninitiated wont see this coming.. 

Because of this, it literally means what it means in plain English and you can't rules lawyer your way around it. Emphasis mine. The Unfettered Fury does allow piling in, but the Battalion is specific in its wording, and the command ability doesn't overrule the wording of the battalion. However it would count for later in the combat phase that strictly are not instances of the battalion triggering and other daemonic units wholly within 16''. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Ravinsild

[fwlr]

Exactly

[Impa]

1 minute ago, Ravinsild said:

Because of this literally means what it means in plain English and you can't rules lawyer your way around it. Emphasis mine. The Unfettered Fury does allow piling in, but the Battalion is specific in its wording, and the command ability doesn't overrule the wording of the battalion. However it would count for later in the combat phase that strictly are not instances of the battalion triggering and other daemonic units wholly within 16''. 

alright, so no command ability, ability, spell, character abilities etc. literally nothing in the game can change, modify or effect the wording from a battalion? in any army spreading across all of Age of Sigmar. Well alright. i just find it strange that there are modifiers to literally every other part of the game but battalions are not at all able to be modified by legit abilities you choose to use. 

[Ravinsild]

1 minute ago, Impa said:

alright, so no command ability, ability, spell, character abilities etc. literally nothing in the game can change, modify or effect the wording from a battalion? in any army spreading across all of Age of Sigmar. Well alright. i just find it strange that there are modifiers to literally every other part of the game but battalions are not at all able to be modified by legit abilities you choose to use. 

They are what they are. No, nothing changes the wording of battalions. That's just how it is. Everything works together, but nothing replaces what is written in the battalions because they're outside of the game in a sense. It's like a meta-ability that blankets your army, but isn't actually a game mechanic or inside the game itself. It's not part of any phase, or has any interact except a binary yes/no to what qualifies for it and what it allows things to do. 

[Impa]

1 minute ago, Ravinsild said:

They are what they are. No, nothing changes the wording of battalions. That's just how it is. Everything works together, but nothing replaces what is written in the battalions because they're outside of the game in a sense. It's like a meta-ability that blankets your army, but isn't actually a game mechanic or inside the game itself. It's not part of any phase, or has any interact except a binary yes/no to what qualifies for it and what it allows things to do. 

Alright cool. I guess it would make more sense if they put the term “unmodfied 3” from enemy unit” so it was absolutely clear on what’s what. Because we have the wholly within key words and unmodified keywords in every other aspect of the game. But not in battalions lol. 

[Hannibal]

I'm heavily considering to get one of those Slave to Darkness Battleforces that were released last xmas. I feel that it'll build some nice Khorne army right now. 

[fwlr]

Wow. A reapers of vengeance general WoKBT is a denying beast. He gets to deny 2 at +2 and on an undmodified 8 it does d6 mortals to the caster😲 and gets to deny an endless spell, as well. That's nuts- might make a hero wary to cast just because they can. 

+2 is a massive boon, gonna be reallly easy to stop essential spells. Then our slaughterpriests get to pray unrivaled😂

[Xasz]

6 minutes ago, fwlr said:

Wow. A reapers of vengeance general WoKBT is a denying beast. He gets to deny 2 at +2 and on an undmodified 8 it does d6 mortals to the caster😲 and gets to deny an endless spell, as well. That's nuts- might make a hero wary to cast just because they can. 

+2 is a massive boon, gonna be reallly easy to stop essential spells. Then our slaughterpriests get to pray unrivaled😂

It is not clear if those abilities actually stack.

[AresX8]

Yeah I've emailed GW asking if Mage Eater stacking on the Wrath of Khorne Thirster (along with 7 other questions, cause I had to send 8 lol) works. I checked the core rules to see if a model can double up on an ability if it's from different source and I don't think I found anything (probably a hold over from my Warmachine days).

Edited March 28, 2019 by AresX8

[fwlr]

8 minutes ago, Xasz said:

It is not clear if those abilities actually stack.

'add 2 to unbinding rolls for this model'- warscroll ability

'if this general attempts to unbind a spell and the unmodified unbinding roll is 8, that spell is successfully unbound and the caster suffers d6 mortal wounds'

These two abilities, as they affect the model when they make an unbinding roll, will stack. The place where they might conflict however is where it says 'this model can attempt to unbind one spell in the enemy hero phase as if it was a wizard' in both abilities

So the question I think lies in whether it is 1+1(warscroll + relic), or just can deny one. Either way the abilities stack.

[Xasz]

24 minutes ago, fwlr said:

So the question I think lies in whether it is 1+1(warscroll + relic)

Which is rather important and cannot be determined before FAQ.

If he remains at one unbind, that combo is far from "wow" or "massive boon".

Decent at best.

[Luke1705]

57 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Which is rather important and cannot be determined before FAQ.

If he remains at one unbind, that combo is far from "wow" or "massive boon".

Decent at best.

I mean I’d say the same thing even if he gets two unbinds

[Luke1705]

4 hours ago, Impa said:

Nope. its 6" if you've used your rejoice in slaughter command ability. it overrides the 3".. 

"daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are 6" of an enemy unit instead of 3, and can  move an extra 3" when they pile in"

that's how i interpret it anyways. But im sure this will need to be FAQ to be certain. 

For what it’s worth, I would be zero percent shocked if they FAQ tyrants to allow piling in from 6” if you’re under the effects of the command ability that allows 6” combat.

But it is zero percent unclear as written. Gotta be within 3” to domino

[Impa]

4 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

For what it’s worth, I would be zero percent shocked if they FAQ tyrants to allow piling in from 6” if you’re under the effects of the command ability that allows 6” combat.

But it is zero percent unclear as written. Gotta be within 3” to domino

That’s cool. I just presumed your buffs or whatever would adjust your abilities from the battalion like other aspects of the game. Thanks for clearing that up everyone. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Impa

[Luke1705]

Would make a lot of sense, and like I said maybe it gets FAQ’d to work that way. Just have to be careful about reading literally. Generally speaking, when you get a new ability, you can only do what it allows you to do explicitly. If the tyrants battalion said they could activate if they were in combat (perhaps the intention) then we would be good to go with that command ability.

[MOMUS]

13 hours ago, Charleston said:

Btw Skullfind Triebe and Goretide affect as far as I can see also Slaves to Darkness units as they also obtain the keywords

Yea I've been looking at this too, in particular the Lord on Daemonic mount who I think could be a really good addition, as he has the mortal and daemon keyword.

Some comparisons below as the skullmaster and jugger have both gone up in points.

Skullmaster  +20 (120)
+decapitaiting 6s is in addition 
-slaughterous charge only on 2+

Lord on Dmount 140
+10 movement
+mortal and daemon keyword

Jugger lord +20 (160)
-shield only on 5+
+charge is on 2+

Edited March 29, 2019 by MOMUS

[Sigmarusvult]

15 hours ago, Impa said:

Nope. its 6" if you've used your rejoice in slaughter command ability. it overrides the 3".. 

"daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are 6" of an enemy unit instead of 3, and can  move an extra 3" when they pile in"

that's how i interpret it anyways. But im sure this will need to be FAQ to be certain. 

Someone already  asked them on twich when they talk about the new battletome, They  said  that Tyrans works only if you are  already  3" away of an ennemy unit and  cannot be overide with rejoice in slaughter. 

In the other hand they also said that wrathmongers' buff works on missile weapon 😉. 

[Kaleb Daark]

15 hours ago, Charleston said:

Btw Skullfind Triebe and Goretide affect as far as I can see also Slaves to Darkness units as they also obtain the keywords

that caught my attention straight away.

Brass Despoilers - Doombull and three units of Bullgors

Skullfind Tribe

Doombull gets toys

Aspiring deathbringer

bloodsectrator and maybe some wrathmonger khorne farmers in armoured dungarees.

not the best use of points, but doombull general  - very khorne.

[n1ceguypaul]

Hey guys just wondering is the soulgrinder not available to play in aos anymore. Was looking at the model and really like it but can't find anything about it in the book and gw have removed rules for sigmar from the website.

[Praecautus]

19 minutes ago, n1ceguypaul said:

Hey guys just wondering is the soulgrinder not available to play in aos anymore. Was looking at the model and really like it but can't find anything about it in the book and gw have removed rules for sigmar from the website.

I just checked uk site. It’s still listed under creatures of chaos with rules for AoS.

Although there is a second entry in 40k without AoS rules

[n1ceguypaul]

17 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

I just checked uk site. It’s still listed under creatures of chaos with rules for AoS.

Although there is a second entry in 40k without AoS rules

Cheers for that will have a look. Do you happen to know the points cost or where I can find them.

Cheers again