readercolin

It means that even if someone comes around (ex. Frostheart Phoenix) with a -1 to wound effect, you are still wounding on a 2+

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/blood-and-glory-2109-1st-place/ Tada, there you go. It contains a single Knight-Incantor in order to cast the Everblaze Comet. Still suffused by your rabid hatred of stormcast preventing you from taking even a single model? That's ok - you can replace that one and the comet with 240 points of other models. Competitive? It took 1st place. Does it use your old ironbreakers? No, but that can be easily shifted around (especially without the Knight-Incantor/everblaze). Want irondrakes instead? You can probably swap either ranged unit for them and have about the same effectiveness.

Yup - been staring at Chaos Knights warscrolls a bit too much recently.

I recommend going to here: https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ and plugging in a few profiles to see the exact numbers. As to which is better, it all depends on how you want to use them, whether or not they are getting any buffs, etc. On its own, a demi with the halberd is a decent choice for a unit that is going to go and get stuck in, and stay in the fight. If you want to take a unit because it looks cool and its a decent unit, then take it with the Halberd. If you are supporting them though (ex. griffon, battalion, spells, etc) and you need a hammer that can bust through most of what ends up in front of it, take a squad of 6 with lances. Without buffs, lances on the charge do ~40% more damage than halberds, and with buffs that just gets better. However, once they aren't charging, they are about 20% worse than halberds. Stick them in the battalion (or give them +1 to hit and wound from other effects - ex. griffon and warding brand (hallowheart spell)) and you get a unit that can do double the damage of the halberd unbuffed - a unit of 6 can put out ~32 wounds on average to a 5+ save. From playing against them, I will say that you are going to need to be very careful in your manuvering. If your opponent can catch you before you charge, the demi'****** like wet noodles. If you get the charge off, you are going to erase just about anything you hit. If you don't feel that you are up for that sort of maneuvering, then get the halberds and just be glad at whatever they happen to hit.

Bitter much? I have owned a high elf and a wood elf force for about 14 years now, when I was playing back in 6th edition, and I also have some empire models as well from the starter set of that time. Of the models that I owned, the only that haven't been squatted are Phoenix Guard and Dryads. Luckily, it is extremely simple to take most of the rest of my forces and do some small conversions (or no conversions) and tada, there is a unit in Cities that they can be (with some exceptions, like my hawk riders). Would I love if they had released a high elf tome? Sure. I would love it if most of my models were still usable as what I bought them as. But at the same time, I am more than happy to play cities of sigmar and buy into it more. Not only do I have tons of freedom for conversions, and making my army look how I want, but I have tons of variety as well. And while my army might not be as broken as skaven or slaneesh was on release, if I build it right I can easily be competitive. Yes, I can't use all my models to compete (drakespawn knights suck soooo much), but there are several different lists that people are running to competitive results, and if I am playing more casually, I can have different models for any opponent. No other battletome allows you that much freedom, and easily puts this tome as one of the best that GW has released to date.

Having played with the knights + dreadlord (I was doing a cool kitbash to make them dragon blades, and then they stopped printing my dragon blades so I couldn't finish the army). I would not advise taking them unless they drop all the way to 100 points. And even then I might not consider it. With a dreadlord buffing them, a unit of 5 gets 6 attacks at 3+/3+/-2/2 on the charge, and then another 10 attacks at 3+/3+/-/1. This means that that unit of 5 gets to force 2.6 saves on average (so against a 5+ save, 5 damage on average), and 4.4 rend 0 saves. Assuming that your opponent fails all of those saves, that means that you do a grand total of 9.4 damage on the charge. Once the charge is over, that then drops to 7 damage if your opponent fails all of those saves. Lets compare that to a unit of Demi-gryphs with lances. These guys get 10 attacks, and with their griffon in support they can be hitting on a 2+/4+/-2/2. That gives them 4.2 saves forced for their lances, which if we go ahead and assume that your opponent failed all of their saves gives us 8.4 damage on average - almost as much as the entire unit of knights. But, we still have the demi-gryphs, which are now hitting on 2+/3+/-1/1 (and 6's to wound generate a mortal wound), which is an average of 5 wounds and 1.25 mortal wounds. This then gives us a unit damage of 14.65 damage on the charge. After the charge, the lances lose their rend and a damage, but still average 4.16 saves for a total of 10.4 damage when not charging. If we add armor to this equation, then it just gets even better for the demi-gryphs, because the beak and talons always have rend. We also have the option of giving the demi-gryphs swords instead, which reduces their charge damage but doesn't drop off when they are stuck in combat. But, if we compare damage on the charge to points spent, then 9.4/150 is 0.0626, while 14.65/180 is 0.08138. To get the same damage per point, the unit of knights would have to drop all the way to 115 points. This is then where the better rend of the demigryphs and the smaller surface area of their charge would still have me favor them, and I wouldn't take the knights over the demi-gryphs until we get to about 100 points/unit.

And how exactly did the one viable list get nerfed? The only changes were that evocator's celestial lightning arc only triggers once in combat (which since there is no fight twice in the stormcast tome, only really nerfs the evocators when taken as allies/cities of sigmar) and then points got reduced for 3 different models. While I agree that the stardrakes still aren't particularly great at their new point totals, I found the evokitties decent at their previous point total, and great at the new one. As for previous lists, the only really competitive list prior to this was anvils + longstrikes shootcast, with gavbomb and ballista spam getting honorable mentions (though neither of those were better than 3-2 lists). None of these lists are affected by the changes, except that some may consider running kitties rather than foot evocators now.

This is already done if you are playing stormcast sequitors (you remove the shields before the grandhammers, and if you have no shields left in the unit then you can't re-roll saves anymore). It is also done if you are playing Orruk Ardboys, where 2/5 models in the units can be given a shield that gives them a 6+ save after save. These are just the first two other cases that I can think of off the top of my head because I've played with them/against them recently. However, I'm sure that if I did some more digging I would find a few other units that have mixed saves. Additionally, you can look at other units where there is a mixture of weapons used. The most standout one is KO's Arkanaut company, where 3 out of every 10 models can be armed with another weapon (skyhook), and when the unit gets damaged, you take the non-special weapons out of the unit before you start taking the special ones. However, there are PLENTY of other examples of similar units, and almost every unit also has a unit leader, while many have a banner/musician that you can choose to pull whenever you want as well.

That depends upon what you are running. Tempest Eye is good for getting them up to the objectives on turn 1, and is a decent default city to go to. It also allows you to run KO units in your army if those interest you. Living city is probably the next best city, specifically with the ability to bring ironbreakers on at the board edge and still be able to blaze away, and then command point move afterwards if needed. If rather than focusing on the infantry, you want to run all the gyrocopters, Greywater Fastness is a clear winner, with the steam guns benefiting from the +3" range. Lastly, hammerhall is ok if you want to run a bunch of MSU, with the chances to get extra command points. For a dwarf focused list, the rest of the cities are kind of anemic. The only other notable one is Hallowheart because wizards don't really care who their escort is, but there are no dwarven wizards and many dedicated dwarf players don't want to play with them. But Hallowheart can be especially good to take advantage of some of the endless spells that give the dwarfs more mobility.

I spent some time reviewing the math on chaos warriors earlier, and I think that if you back them up they can be decent. A squad of 5 with sword and shield are... ok. They end up dealing 4.8 wounds on average, which for 100 points isn't really worth writing home about, and each 5 after that adds another 4.4 wounds. However, backing them up with either a sorcerer lord or a chaos warshrine, you can bump that up to 8.7 for the first 5, and 7.9 for every 5 after that. More interestingly, if you give them 2 hand weapons, and the mark of nurgle, you can get those exact same numbers with a 3+ save, making them extremely sturdy to clog up an area of the board. If you are wanting to run a huge block though, you are going to want to run halberds for the ability to fight in two ranks. Here an unbuffed halberd deals 3.6 wounds for the first 5, and 3.3 for every 5 after that. Which is rather poor for 100 points per model. However, buffing them with either the sorcerer or warshrine giving re-roll hits and wounds brings that up to 7.3 wounds for the first 5, and 6.6 for every 5 after that. Overall, I think that they are fine for running in small squads as objective grabbers (take 5 of them here or there) or as battleline tax. But if you are running them in big blocks, you are going to want to run with support. I would consider running 15-20 with dual hand weapons with the mark of nurgle and the support of a nurgle warshrine, or with hand weapon + shield with a sorcerer or unmarked warshrine. I would consider running a block of 30 with halberds + sorcerer and warshrine support as a hard anvil to base your list around. But I would only look to run them either as units of 5, units of 15-20, or units of 30 with halberds.

Yeah, if your Ironjawz friend is only at 1000 points, I would recommend coming to a gentlemens agreement to avoid the summoning, or he is just going to have a bad day. Once Ironjawz gets going, they can do quite a bit of work (I have a friend who plays them and easily crushed my stormcast at 1000 points because if their movement and the fact that they have so many tough bodies). However, it does mean going with more Boyz or running a bunch of boarz to get those turn 1 charges off and just crush whatever you run into. Maw-Krusha's are cool... but should probably be reserved for 2000 point games once he has more bodies on the board. As for Sylvaneth, depending upon how you built your army they will probably do fine. They have a lot of shenanagins that they can pull off, though you will probably have to spend some time getting used to them and trying to figure out what would work best against the seraphon. That being said... a 1000 point sylvaneth vs ironjawz game is probably going to be a lot closer for your other friend and might help get him back into the game.

An important question to ask - how many points are you playing with? Seraphon (actually, any list that can summon) get much better at lower point levels. If you are playing at 1000 points, you are going to be handicapped against them because Seraphon has the exact same amount of summoning at 1000 points as they do at 2000 points. Khorne does have summoning, but theirs is one of the weaker summonings available. As for tactics, there are a few things that you can do. First, you can try to snipe their slaan. If you can take out the slaan, then they can't generate summoning points anymore. Additionally, if you race up to the slaan and force him to waste his teleports on escaping, that is less shenanagins that he can get up to with the rest of his list. If you were playing an order faction I could give advice for how to do this, but I'm not particularly familiar with chaos so I can't really help out there as far as the "how" goes. Second, you can screen for his teleports. He can't teleport within 9" of an enemy model. If you have some cheap chaff, you can use them to create zones around your more critical models that he can't teleport to. Another thing to consider is running lots of single entity units or MSU. Since you get tithe points for units dying, this doesn't hurt you as much as other factions, and you can fairly easily deny teleports to large amounts of space with single entity or small units. Third is to remember that this is an objective based game. It is entirely possible to win the game with 0 units left on the field (though seraphon are more frequently the one in that position...) provided that you grab enough points early on. Make sure you are playing objectives and not killing your opponent or the game won't be particularly balanced.

Going by the rules listed for meeting engagements, if the model's base size is too large to fit into the deployment zone, then it should go in up to 6" and then "hang off the table edge" for the rest of it. Realistically, I don't see how anyone would complain about you having Allariele on the hidden paths, and if they do complain about that, they probably aren't the type of person you want to play with anyways.

Your list is, close to good, but has a few issues. However, it would be very easy to fix that with the simple change of combining some of your groups. 3x5 sequitors is fine as a battleline, however in my experience they don't have any great benefit over liberators when they are in small quantities like that. If sequitors are what you have, then sure, go for them, but I would personally either run a block of 10 or 20, and then fill the rest of my battleline with either liberators or (better) judicators. That being said, I'm still running 3x5 sequitors myself because I can't be bothered to paint up more battleline. 2x5 evocators is just straight worse than 1x10 evocators. Evocators are very killy, however a 4+ save gets to be kinda thin against many armies these days. With 2 groups of 5, you can disperse them more, but if they go into combat at the same time then your opponent can hit the unit that didn't attack first and reduce their ability to kill whatever they touched. A group of 10 though is harder to get all into combat, but in exchange gives you 20 dice to roll for their jazz hands (av. 10 mortal wounds) and allows you to unleash everything in one go, reducing your opponents ability to strike back. 2x3 Evokitties is... fine. However, I find that units of 3 of them often don't quite get the job done, while a unit of 6 of them will consistently wipe out whatever they hit. Note, they really, really love having a knight-heralder with them (something to consider). If you want to buff them further, I would HIGHLY recommend getting a Lord-Arcanum of Celestial Dracoline instead of the one of the Gryph Charger (if you use the Astria model though, I recommend painting it in pieces before putting it together). Pride leader allowing the kitties to hit on 2+ is brutal, and the command ability to give all kitties within 18" an extra attack can also be awesome. 3 Raptors with longstrike. Longstrikes are good. A block of 3 of them though is too small to really make a difference. They really need to be in a block of at least 6, preferably 9, and also be used with Anvils to allow them to shoot twice in a turn if you want them to significantly impact the game. If you are only going to use 3, then hurricane crossbows are probably better as you can drop them from the sky and unload with 27 shots with a group of only 3 of them, rather than getting only 3 shots per turn. If you want to use what you currently have without buying more models, then I would run the following: Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger Knight-Incantor 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 10 Evocators 6 Evocators on Celestial Dracolines 3 Vanguard Raptors with hurricane crossbows 1 Command point If you are willing to buy a few more models, but keep the same general idea I would look to go with something like this: Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline Knight-Incantor Knight-Heralder 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 10 Evocators 6 Evocators on Celestial Dracoline Everblaze Comet Note that this list is adding the Knight-Heraldor and Everblaze Comet instead of vanguard-raptors, and swaps the Lord-Arcanum out for a different one. If you really don't want to swap the arcanums, you don't have to, but in my opinion the one on the celestial dracoline is just straight better. Neither of these lists is going to be super competitive. However, either should be good enough to win a games about half the time. Personally, I run a list very similar to the second one, but I run drop the incantor, evocators and everblaze for either Ordinator + 3 ballistas, or Relictor + 9x Longstrikes. This list has been fairly decent at winning me matches against most opponents, but still isn't a super competitive list.

I'm not sure that that works. The living city rules state that you can set up 1 reserve unit for each Living City unit you have set up on the battlefield. Shadow warriors rules state that you can set up this unit on the side as a reserve unit. I would interpret this to mean that you can go ahead and deploy half (rounding up) of your non-shadow warrior units on the battlefield, the other half (rounding down) in reserve, and then any number of shadow warriors in reserve. The only way I see being able to have a null deployment would be to run only assassins and shadow warriors, as you can deploy the assassins in reserve and have them pop out of the shadow warriors later. However, if you were to do things this way, you can't then deploy the assassins within 6" of the table edge, because the assassin's reserve ability is different then the living cities reserve ability.

While this list looks like an excellent deathstar, I would have concerns trying to actually play the objective game with it. The way that you have your force built you are wanting to keep your mages all together, and gotrek probably wants to be near them as well to get buffed. Then you need to keep some of your battleline forces near your mages to protect them, which means that you can probably toss the freeguild guard down to take a local objective early and then sit around while the rest of your force tries to move forwards. In some games this is fine (ex. knife to the heart), as there are just 2 objectives. In other games this will lose you the game very quickly (ex. scorched earth, shifting objectives) as there are too many objectives for you to take and hold without splitting up your force, and once your force is split up it loses cohesion and becomes much easier to pick off in pieces. This isn't to say that this is necessarily a BAD list. However, it is going to be very battleplan dependent on whether or not you can win.

While this list is good on the shooting side, something you may want to consider is having a unit that can get into melee and rock whatever it hits (ex. evocators). You also need to be aware that this list can get rather screwed over by a few things: Battleplan - total commitment. This battleplan forces you to start with everything on the battlefield. While your units technically have the range to deal with this, the ballista's especially are massively nerfed if they can't get their quad shots in and are instead shooting only a single bolt. Idoneth Deepkin. These guys have a rule that you can only shoot at the nearest ID unit. A force like this wants to start by killing the high value targets first, and then work on the chaff later. ID's rule means you have to start with the chaff, or with the units most resistant to your shooting first which is going to reduce the effectiveness of your army. Some realms will also restrict the range of your shooting. With a list like this, those realms would be an auto-loss. I can't remember which realms these are, and don't have my book readily available to look them up though. You also have to consider that your list is a 14 drop list. This basically means that you will never be able to dictate who goes first. While this isn't necessarily a problem, it is something that you are going to want to keep in mind. I would take a look at the lists that are showing up in the "shootcast - the thread" and try to see what the differences between those lists and yours are, and then try to figure out why the particular poster is running the list that they are.

Living city is easy (same with shadow warriors). Say which forces are being deployed in "reserve" for each body. For instance, lets say I have a block of 10 darkshards that I put in reserve. If they are in the vanguard, then they don't deploy on the table and I can put them in following their normal rules on turn 1 (they enter at the end of the movement phase wherever I want following the rules for living city ambush/shadow warriors ambush). If they are in the main body, then they don't deploy to the board at the end of turn 1, and instead I can put them on the table at the end of the movement phase starting on turn 2. If they are rearguard, then the exact same thing, but they deploy at the end of the movement phase starting on turn 3. If the battleplan has the various forces coming in a different order, then just swap main body/rearguard/vanguard with whatever order the battleplan requests. Also, remember - meeting engagements only have a requirement for a single unit of battleline. Feel free to take advantage of this to your hearts content.

While this is a possible solution to spread your forces out, by doing this you are going to thin them out and prevent them from being able to get significant damage. This means that if someone interferes, it is going to be hard for you to remove that interference. Additionally, if someone charges one side before they get into position, then it is going to drastically reduce the mobility of both sections. Even worse, I could go ahead and throw something durable right into the center of these two forces and tie up both groups for a turn or two, preventing them from taking objectives or responding to other forces moving around. Another way that this becomes an issue is that I can throw a unit down at the center of the lines to prevent them from moving, and then have a unit hovering out of combat out near the wings, preventing you from being able to pile-in without breaking coherency. If it is a particularly sturdy unit, it might even stick around for a long time and block your movement the whole while. This I feel is unacceptable for an investment of 1280 points. If the objective of the game was to kill the other opponents forces and that was the only win condition, then I think this build is fine. However anyone with mobility is going to be able to maneuver around and win the objective game if you try to do this.

You need to break your corsairs up into 2 groups if you want to keep them in the spearhead. Remember, no double size groups in the vanguard, double units only for battleline in the main body, and double units for anything in the rearguard.

Congrats, you have sunk 840 points (with 1 unit of battleline) into one blob of your army. You can take your 1 blob and it will be undefeated, and hold one section of the table. Your blob moves at 4" per turn, unless you run them or spend your RD points on them (which also means you can't spend your RD points on something else). With this blob, you can control... 1 objective. There is no feasible way to run 2 of these blobs, and even if you did most games have 3+ objectives. I'm not saying that this is bad per say, but I think that in most games it will be more viable to have your points broken up across more units. Additionally, if your blob charges, you can fairly easily get your block of guard into combat, but then you won't be able to get your harvesters close enough because they can't complete a charge (remember, have to end within 1/2"). Or if you bring your harvesters around the edges so that they can complete a charge, they are now vulnerable to being counter charged. You can kind of get around this by stringing your guard out to keep some near your harvesters, but now you can't get as many on target reducing your damage, which means that it will be even harder for your blob to take and hold objectives. So now all your opponent has to do is toss some chaff in front of this blob, make it hard for you to maneuver it to objectives, and then win on the rest of the table because almost half your points are tied up here and it can be held back by maybe 1/4 of your opponents force.

Depends upon how heavily you are relying on the "shooting" of the shootcast. I have 2 lists that I mess around with: List 1: Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline general pride-leader Knight-Heralder Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger Lord-Ordinator 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 6x Evocators on Celestial Dracolines Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista This list had 3 ballista's + ordinator to start in the sky and then decend to kill key pieces. Meanwhile the Lord-Arcanum's, knight heralders, and evokitties stick together as a fast moving, hard hitting ground force. Finally, the sequitors are there to hold objectives. What I've found playing this is that, generally, 3 ballistas + ordinator tend to out-perform 4 ballistas. Second, I really want the 4th ballista, and I would drop the Lord-Arcanum on Gryph charger to get it, but then I have 110 points remaining and I don't have any models to put in there. Third, the evokitties have a very strong tendency to utterly obliterate whatever they hit, but then frequently die to a counterattack. However, they have the mobility to really scoot around the enemy forces and threaten objectives, and I have frequently been able to either get someone to blob up and allow me to win on objectives, or leave units out that are under-supported, which then proceeds to get them obliterated by the cats. Lastly, the ballistas tend to be... underwhelming. I usually deploy them in the sky and then bring them down to either snipe an enemy centerpiece, or to clean up chaff for the evokitties to get in on a jucy target. However, they usually fail to kill large chaff units, or particularly large centerpiece units. This is where the 4th ballista might be enough to make up for that. List 2: Stormhost: Anvils of Heldenhammer Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline general pride-leader Knight-Heralder Knight-Vexilor Pennant of the Storm Bringer 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 6x Evocators on Celestial Dracolines 9x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows Extra Command Point This list is basically the same as the one above, but it swaps out the ballistas + ordinator for a large pack of longstrikes. Additionally, the switch to Anvils gives us a regular use for our command points, as we want to shoot with the longstrikes in our hero phase basically every turn, and we can also use a spare command point to let the evokitties attack again if they are tangled up in a block of chaff. The longstrikes are worse than the ballistas if chaff needs to get cleaned up, but are significantly better at taking out key centerpieces of the enemy army. Overall, after testing this setup out a bit, I think I would stick to running the vanguard raptors over the ballistas 9/10. I have seen other people play with even more shooting than my lists. However, in my experience it has greatly helped my forces to be able to have a fast-moving, hard hitting cavalry force, as it allows me to force my opponents to react to me. It also allows me to easily skirt around their movements and play the objective game, which is something that I find very hard to do if you were to try to replace them with something like foot evocators.

What makes you say that they don't lose effectiveness until the 6th wound? Every 2 wounds removes a model, reducing your effectiveness.

Some quick mathhammer on this: A squad of 3 Demigryphs is going to get 9 attacks with their claws, and then 9-10 attacks with either lances or halberds (9 if you are counting up by 3 in a larger unit, 10 if you are on your own). The beak and talons hit on 3+/3+, which is going to give you 9 attacks with 6 hitting on average, and then 4 wounding on average with an average of 1 mortal wound. For ease of argument, if you are attacking something with either a 6+ save or no save, this is 5 wounds. Meanwhile, your halberds are... doing the exact same thing but with a 2" reach and no mortal wounds. So this means that a squad of 3 with halberds is doing 9.4 damage before saves, while a squad of 6 is doing 18.4 assuming that all your guys get stuck in. If you run lances instead, then your 3+/4+ is giving you 9-10 attacks with 6-6.67 hits on average, which then leads to 3-3.33 wounds on average. If you didn't charge, this is 3-3.33 damage (and only against a - save), or 6-6.67 if you did charge. Combining this with the mounts, and a squad of 3 with lances is going to be doing 8.33 damage when not on a charge, or 11.67 damage on the charge, while a squad of 6 is doing 16 damage not on the charge, and 22.67 damage on the charge. However, all these numbers change if you are running the battalion. The battalion adds +1 to hit and wound on the charge, which means hitting on a 2+/2+ for the mounts and halberds, and 2+/3+ with the lances. 2+/2+ is ~70% hit chance, while a 2+/3+ is about 55% hit chance. This means that on the charge, the demigryphs are hitting 7.5 times, and then wounding 6.25 times, with 1.25 mortal wounds for every 3 demigryphs. Halberds are doing 7 damage in a squad of 3, and 6.25 more for each additional 3. So a squad of 3 halberds are doing 14.5 damage on the charge, while a squad of 6 is doing 27.25 damage. Meanwhile, the lances are doing 11.1 damage on the charge for the first 3, and 10 damage for each additional 5 for a total of 18.6 damage in a squad of 3 and 17.5 for each additional 3 (36.1 damage for a squad of 6). Overall, the conclusion of this is to not discount the power of the claws. Additionally, getting a charge off with the battalion is a 80% increase in power over non-charging halberds (in or out of battalion), while getting a charge off with lances in the battalion 110% increase in power over not getting a charge off and an 80% increase in power over getting a charge off without the battalion bonuses. So the question then is how do you want to use your Demi's? Are you looking for something that can get stuck in and fight for a while? Rush forward and hold a capture point? Then go with halberds with a group of 3-6 depending on how many points you can dedicate to this. Are you looking to get a hard-charging army to come in and blast things and hope it dies on the charge? Get a squad of 6 with lances, and use the battalion. From my own experiences playing with fast movers (evocats and fulminators with stormcast, and dragon blades/dragons with Order Draconis), without some setup you are going to struggle to get charges off regularly without a good bit of setup because you lack the ability to retreat/charge or run/charge. If you want to run the Battalion, I would get a block of 6 Demi's with lances, and then 2 blocks of 3 with halberds, and then fill the rest of your army out with things that can kill chaff and pin things into place. If you aren't running the Battalion, then get a block of 6 with Halberds and forget about the lances.

I had been building an order draconis list this last summer, and doing a kitbash of Dragon Blades and Drakespawn Knights to get my dragon blades. I paused in building it after CoS was announced, and was then very disappointed when Order Draconis was not only not included, but now no longer even being printed. However, I decided to make the best of it, and decided that this would be the most amusing way to finish the army. Here is what I have: 1 Prince Imirik model (Easily call it a dreadlord with sword/shield) 1 Dragonlord (rider not attached yet, can either attach a sorceress or a "dreadlord") 1 Black Dragon (rider not attached, again can be either a sorceress or dreadlord) 2 squads of 5 Drakespawn Knights (kitbashed) The "list" that I decided to build: Dreadlord of Black Dragon (300 pts) (general) Dreadlord of Black Dragon (300 pts) Sorceress on Black Dragon (300 pts) Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560 pts) 5 Drakespawn Knights (170 pts) 5 Drakespawn Knights (170 pts) 5 Drakespawn Knights (170 pts) This comes out to 1970 points, and yes, it could totally be improved by swapping the drakespawn knights for... literally anything else. However, you can easily say that you are able to win any battle because you brought more dragons than your opponent did - and all 4 dragons look different too. I haven't decided which city this army would follow yet. The three cities that I am thinking of are as follows: Anvilguard is the "fluffy" city, and gives you the drakespawn curses for your 3 dragons. Tempest Eye gives an improved turn 1 movement (as well as giving everything but the sorceress a 2+ save on turn 1 if both dreadlords have shields), and also allows the general a command trait that allows him to fight first in combat. Living City to heal 1 wound a turn, and take the healing spell. It also allows for an artifact to strike first on a charge, and the option of keeping a dragon or two in reserve (which works better if the dreadlord gets a ranged weapon).