Myrdin

Well I sure love me some Harpies and Lamias :3 Heck its those two miniatures + Big snake Morathi that got me into AoS 2.0 I do like your train of though. Personally I believe its reasonable to think that Morathi, as wicked as she is, is also pretty darn smart all things considered and would plan ahead of this, thus making the female reproductory organs of Melusai and Khinerai work similar to her more normal servants (meaning: regular witch elves). Now I know this is a different universe and setting, etc etc etc, but I like how Harpies and Lahmias are done in the Monster Musume universe. Where they can procreate, but only give birth to female "monster girls" of their own species. Similar to the blue heads from Mass Effect universe, the child takes a lot of personality and character traits from their father, but as far as its species, it always is of the same as the mother = a monster girl. Though occasionally there are exception and a male is born, in that case the male is regular human in terms of physiology who exhibits some traits of his mother (ie: occasional scales or feathers here and there, more snake like eyes, etc etc). I`d like to imagine that Morathi did think about these things, and her demi human (demi elf ?) servants are still able to do the snu snu and give birth to children. Though how crippled the male aelf souls of hers are due to her own doing, I would presume all the children born would be of the same species and gender as the mother. NOW if one of these girls should fancy a particular human man.... thats where it would get interesting. Unlike Humans x Aeldar who are far more different as species, but still can interbreed, though its very rare and even rare a child is born this way. In AoS the Humans and Aelfs are more similar to each other, as per the typical fantasy setting. Going by what I already wrote > IF Melusai and Khinerai can procreate with male aelfs, it would be more than probable they could do so with Humans as well. .... And now I really wanna read an epic story of a human Witch Hunter and a Melusai of fighting chaos together, on some heart wrenching adventure, and eventually getting more "comfortable" with each other doing the bogie bogie dance.... yesss, this warms my Beastmen and demi-humans loving heart very much so haha^^ *I really like your take on the "What if Khaine comes back". I have been thinking about this a lot as well when drafting background story, characters and theme for my own Dok. The temple my girls come from has distanced itself a bit from Morathi, even the Melusai and Khinerai act more independently, and treat her less than a Goddes and more like the Priestess/Oracle she is pretending to be. Still loyal, but not in a forced way.

Thisssss isssss Ssssssuper cute :3 It warms my furry Beastmen Heart to see people making their own Beastmen variants. The army has so much more potential for alternative looks, thematic kitbash and custom models than any other out there. Simply by how Beastmen work in essence in the established lore. I remember back in the "Herdstone" forum days, there was a player who made a Kingdom of Ind Beastmen army. Tigers, elephants and such. And another one who created his own hand crafted Gnolls. Very cool. Keep up the good work and keep us posted for more updates in the Beast of Chaos forum thread

Rather than the duardin female I am more intrigued by the Naga child. Now THAT has me interested!

Dont have two of those assmebled, and the one I have is not painted. Meanwhile I got one painted Gorghon and one assembled soo..... you know

I`ve had a quick flip through the book this week, and from what I can tell: the characters seems rather nice and not really a problem. Sure some are bit more on the edge of being broken, but still not game ending. Some are a bit underwhelming and dont really fit their intended Warband as what they bring is nothing new or necessary, but still can be a nice addition regardless. The monsters on the other hand ? ..... oh boy Open the cheese gates, and prepare your black list for "that guy". The monsters can single handedly wipe out your entire warband like its nobodys bussiness. And they are not that expensive. The cost for the better ones is under 400 pts, Typically around 40-50W and tons of attacks with massive dmg to boost. Great for Campaign and narrative play. Fantastic for one of scenarios where both warbands try to hunt down the beast ala "monster hunter" and such. But I would strongly recommend steering away from taking these into regular skirmish games. It seems there is no limitation on them, and you can take 2 big ones if you take only a leader. With that said though - They do seem fun for more custom themed scenarios and house rules. For example each warband gets 300-400 pts allocated for a monster they can bring and while the two massive beasts duke it out in the middle of the board your warbands can run around and fight over objectives and targets of opportunity. This could make for rather amusing games. In short: Not a horrible expansion, though a bit too much way sooner than it was necessary. There is certain fun factor in it, but just like Warcry in general: Dont take it too seriously, dont try to cheese out the maximum efficiency and be a little derpy with it for maximum enjoyment.

I like the kitty cat thingy, its adorable. And I do rather like the Centaur chick. I can see some kitbash potential for female Centigors with that. But otherwise those Beastmen wannabees dont do it for me... and I am a love of all Beastmenly They look flimsy, deerpy (see what I did there ? ...ok sorry I`ll see myself out) and overall poorly designed. Meanwhile I look at the Beastmen Warband, and see so much potential for new more dynamic looking sculpts. Similar to the modern Khorne stuff, it would suit so much with the Beastmen aesthetics of a wild warherd just running into the fray, instead of those current, aged, regimentally lined up miniatures that havent seen an update for ages.

Just my two cents from a longtime Beastmen fanboy and player. Back in the day, the Beastmen were THE underdog. The sh*ttiest faction with the worst book and most broken (not in the good way) rules that were obsolete after half a year and 2 more releases were done. I was this close to sell all of them when the End Times started, everyone in Chaos but us got new shiny cool toys, and after all of that WFB went puff. Just like that, my sh*tty weak sauce army, whom I still loved the hell out of despite loosing more than winning and having more fun assembling and kitbashing all sorts of goats and bulls then playing, was ready to be sold. Then 9Age came along and I tried that for a while. The nostalgia feel was nice, and they were better in that rule set than before in WFB so for a while I was happy. But then again, few years passed over and that feeling came and I was this close to take the pics and list them on Ebay. As anyone, I despised AoS 1 for killing of WFB and didnt want anything to do with it.... but as time heals all wounds so did mine, and when AoS 2 came around and cool stuff like Melusai, Khinerai and the Big Morathi came out, with which I instantly fell in love.... I mean snake ladies and harpies.... thats as Beastmen as it gets! Starting a DoK army gave me a break of fresh air.... and before I finished putting my DoK togather we got.... Beast of Chaos surprise release ! BAM ! I was overjoyed. And nobody saw that coming ! Sure all the named characters ? Gone, no new models, EndSpells being the exception. The book could use a bit more fleshing out, especially the 3 Herds, are imbalanced, some units are still obsolete as all hell (looking at you Gors, staple boy of all Beastmen....makes my fur covered heart weep with sadness) But to be honest...after almost loosing hope and then the battletome came out....Ima gonna be honest here. I`ve never had this much fun with my Beastmen back in the day as I have now with BoC in AoS 2. The game sits well with me, and the army is so much fun. Right now the army is in better shape then ever (though it could use a lot of polish on the internal balance of some units). We even got Chimeras and Dragon Ogors back to the fold...and even Tzaangors ! BAAAAH! Love those Birdgoats! No actual BoC exclusive toys to play with, true (was really hoping to get Slaan/Khorne and PestiGors as well but ah well, that ship has sailed with Khoren and Slaanesh releases over with and nothing of that sorts being announced), but overall ? Since BoC came out I`ve not only hold off from selling my good old Beastmen, but actually more than doubled my collection with bunch of cool old-new stuff that we did not have access to before. Now the point of this little rant was to say > I get it, I really do. But as seen from my story above, I wanna say that dont expect much and you might yet be pleasantly surprised. Granted to those people whose armies have been squatted, this is gonna sound meaningless, but to other who like me, merely wait with clenched fists unsure what is gonna happen (I DO have an Empire army as well just to be clear here). Stay positive, hope for the best and dont get anxious and stressed out over this. Rather than trying your best to find all the faults you can, try finding the positives. If nothing else there will be SOMETHING that allows us to bring some of the old toys back in the game, even if its just a half as*ed concoction of a sort. Sure I didnt want a Dwarfs/Elves/SCE/Humans book either. I wanted to see the glorious Empire of old in new colors. But I`ll certainly take it over nothing. So just wait it out for a little bit longer and stop all the negativity. Its fine if you wanna went, but other than that its not gonna help you. On the contrary its only gonna make you more anxious, angry and hateful. And thats really not what hobbies are for. But hey, thats just my two cents. I am not preaching to anyone, just sharing my little story, hoping to show things can also get better when least expected. Take it or leave it for what its worth

I think the important difference is that the Gorghons wound table has lower degradation rate than chimera has when losing wounds. Plus depending on the target you might be able to pop Bloodgreed healing up a little. While not super relevant I remember one game where I managed to get back 2W from it, and it was just enough to get me to the dmg tier above the one it was. That extra attack was enough to help me win that combat, though I believe it got murdered shortly after. If only we had an actual reliable heal spell, it would be very amusing to try and keep your spellcaster close to the big gribblies, making sure to keep them healthy and stacked up with bunch of attacks

The oldest lore states that first beastmen were mutated livestock and wildlife as well as human mutants. Beastmen as a species are farily old, older than humans, and possibly as old as elves and dwarves, as they were essentially mutated animals, both life stock and wild life, created by the power of Chaos, and were around ever since Chaos made its entry into the mortal realm. There were also beastmen tribes formed of human mutants. If a child was born with mutation, and the parents didnt have the strength to kill it, they abandoned it in the forest, where most of the times they would be adopted by raving bands of lesser beastmen and human mutants. So your memory does indeed not betray you on this one There was a lesser mutated Ungor character > Ungrol Four Horn, who led a band of ungors and human mutants, and hated everyone equally since he was cast out of his own tribe, thus forming a ravaging band of opportunists on his own. I remember that guy 75pts and could be taken only in a unit of Ungors and only in the same way as a unit champion could. And like most old 7the Armybook Beastmen heroes, he wasnt really worth it. ... This is one of the sad parts of BoC release - bunch of cool characters got squated. All the named ones, regardless of if they had miniatures or not. So much potential wasted. I was hoping to see Moonclaw son of Morshlieb riding Umbralok in AoS. Sigh.. There was even a short part in some older books, where they stated that Beastmen "evolve" to suit the fears of the people in that land. Beastmen in the old world looked like goats and bulls, spurring huge horns and hooves as if to feed of the fear of the typical Satanic evil the people of the Empire associated the chaos with. Meanwhile the Beastmen in the Kingdom of Ind resemble Tigers, Elephants and wildlife associated with that region. And funny enough not spurring horns, as that is not something the people of those lands found as "scary". Thats how Chaos works ^^ It warps its chaotic children in a way to squeeze out the most delicious emotions of terror, anguish and hate from the mortals living in those lands. **I also heard from a friend of mine there was a mention of Aquatic Beastmen in AoS. I mean it only makes sense for there to be some, but I dont know where this info was taken from. Maybe Idoneth battletome ?

Regarding Beastmen - there are lore backed lines stating that there are in fact female Beastmen. They are much tamer and docile than the war bred males, though they still dont care fo Civilization in itself, as that is the essential anathema to all Beastmen, and something thats instilled into them to hate on a genetical level by Chaos. Good example I can think off: There was a story of a female Chaos Champion who started as an abandoned baby, raised by female Beastmen. I also vaguely remember it was in one of the novels, maybe the Slayer series > the one where they fought Beastmen carrying a Herdstone that there was some mention of the Beastmen breeding at a high rate thus infesting the lands around them. Or something like that. Also there is the fact that Beastmen can copulate with pretty much anything that has sexual way of procreation. Ghorros Warhoof for example was a character described as the Father of Beasts, a Centigor warlord who pomfed anything and everything that wasnt fast enough (again... Centigor), couldnt fly, or climb up... in which case he pomfed the tree and some evil treant spawn was created (jk). He fathered all sorts of monstrosities, not just Centigors. I believe in the 7th Edition Beastmen army book there was a mention that when the Chaos Moon is high in the sky the Beastmen have orgies around the Herdstone and such. But I am not completely sure about this, its been a while since I cracked that book open for the last time. There are other lore snippets like these. Most of the are part of the Old world, but Beastmen aka Beasts of Chaos are one of those factions that fundamentally stayed pretty much the same as they were back in Warhammer Fantasy. Essentially your "thesis" relies upon: Because there is no model we dont know anything about it. Thats an incorrect assumption, as yes while there is no model, the Armybooks/Battletomes, and the expanded universe (novels, and games with official GW license) does answer some if not all these questions.

Well I wonder how the other warscrolls will turn out. I hope it wont be just nonsense piled upon more nonsense leaving you to play mostly SCE.... because at that point you can just straight go and play SCE, and thats not why everyone is hyped for CoS battle tome. I hope the old warscroll revamp will be kind to the iconic units of old. I wanna see Empire general on Gryphon/Dragon, Chocobo riders, knights, Greatswords, Hurricanum and other cool Empire units make a glorious comeback. Wish the same could be said about the elves, but well they got squatted hard, so the most you can get out of those are the burning bow girls... I got an entire thematically stylized Empire army waiting and collecting dust, hoping to be of use again. (Sure I can play it in 9A or Warlords of Erewhon, but neither of those games cuts it for one reason or another). We just need to be patient. We waited and hoped for this for years now, and now its around a month away so lets just keep fingers crossed for a good release that will see the old units make a comeback rather than falling into obsolescence and the book being just another "SCE expansion".

So from the OP is it safe to assume you are planning to runn them with the Idoneth Cards for Warcry ? If yes, then its nice way to bring back some of the old flavor! At least if you dont fancy yourself being a giant, bloodsucking, bat monstrosity who thinks themselves noble knights I am hoping we get more older faction cards. I would to to see BoC Warband for example.

Going Darkwalkers also makes some of the monsters more interesting. Trust me, Ambushing two Gorghons when you front line is surging towards the enemy, swarming objectives, does make for a decent "Oh sh*t" moment for your opponent. In regards to monsters - they were trap in old WFB, but I find them decently usefull in AoS. You need to adjust your list a little bit in regards to including them though. Bu in general they are not bad. Gorghon can do a lot of hurt. The -1 rend is pretty pathetic though, but if you can turn it into -2, it will cut through stuff like butter. And unlike bulls, it has 3+ To Hit. Plus the free kill nom nom ability. And the price isnt as steep as one would think. Cygor is quite meh. But can be fun in more relaxed games where you both bring less optimized armies and just have fun with things that dont usually make the cut. Its biggest weakness is that 4+ to hit, then needs to wound and only D6 dmg (2xD3 would be better tbh, or D6+1 per each something something). Also its caster ability is meh. Id much rather see it have a magic missile attack. Some sort of Evil eye laser beam to give it more shooting than just one rock throw. Chimera seems great on the paper, but its a hit or miss thing. It dies to weak breeze, but it murders things like a tornado if you can get it into combat unscathed. Then there are the flying chickens, and Jabber. Jabber as it now stands is meh. The chickens are fun but you need at least 3 of them to make them truly work. To bad you cant have them in a unit of 1-3, but I get it, that would be to much maybe. The problem with half of our monsters is the random factor. To many 50/50 rolls being done on single attacks, with random Damage rolls. Makes for a fun game but also can be very frustrating when trying to take them to more competitive environment. Darkwalkers do work rather nicely if you like the monsters though. Again Ambushing a Gorghon is fairly cheap investment and you opponent will have to play around it suddenly popping in the back line, You should always give them some screen though, some ungors will do the trick to prevent rapid charges and buy you some time. Jabber to me has been rather lackluster. Yes it hits on 3+ but the damage is meek and the acid blood doesn't really do much. The price hike also didnt help it much as you cant fit two under 300 pts and just sling them as suicide units anymore. It got beaten by then nerf hammer a bit too much and does require some love in return. Either make the Acid blood REALLY scary, leaving Jabber itself a weak monster platform that does a little but mostly brings that skill towards the enemy. Or buff its DMG to 2, which would make for a really nice unit that can dish out a reliable damage, but is also easy to take out for a fairly economical price. Ambushing Dragon Ogors are also quite fun. Allows you to tie a lot of stuff long enough for your Shaman sped Bestigors to get in there. Granted with bunch of armies getting pin point deep strike abilities like its nobody's business the appeal of Ambushing does diminish a little bit, but Its still a fairly amusing and working mechanic (unlike the old 7th Edition Beastmen Ambush, which was totally unusable), and can be used to a decent degree, especially with monster : )

I just want to see more Beastmen to be honest. The army always had massive potential as far as all sort of demi human animals are considered. Mierce Miniature has taken lead in this regard with their different types of Beastmen (Rhine, Elephant, Dromedar, Werewolves, Naga/Yuan Ti). Especially now that Beastmen have been distanced from specific Chaos God Worship... though I will be honest I would love for Slaan/Khorne and Pestigors to return and Compliment the Tzaangors God themed Beastmen. However if that was the case I am sure we would see that with Khorne and Slaaneshi release, so I dont hold any hope for those no more. But yeah. Bearmen and Werewolves are the very minimum that could be added. (Wwolves > Skin wolves get Boc Keyword.) Still cant wrap my head around the fact that the Warcry Raptoryx dont have the BoC keyword, when their lore background in its entirety says they are beasts mutated by chaos..... Hello ? Anyone ?! I do like the idea of fish people, but unfortunately with Idoneth being a thing I dont think there will be any more of those. Chaos sea monster would be interesting though. All sorts of underwater Beastmen (Crab people Crab people Crab people clak clak clak ) Vampires getting divorced from Death would be VERY interesting. As clearly Nagash wants all life dead... and Vampires kinda require living creatures to sustain themselves from going totally bat sh*t insane and turning totally rabid. It would be very interesting them to join Order as a new faction. Rather than the old Vampire Counts where they had all sorts of undead monstrosities, this would be mostly Vampires, their human retainers and such. Think Vampire themed Empire. Vlad would be proud heh. In regards to the Bonereapers..... that thing could pass for Tyranid Genstealer Cults. If this was released for 40K I would be pretty ok with them, but it being a AoS army.... yeah... no. That whole factions reeks of "over the top" miniature design thats absolutely weird in the undead setting. The miniatures are fairly nice, but god darn its as if Necrons and Tyranids had a baby together. Thats how the Bonereapers seem to me.

Maybe Dragon Ogres ? Though considering they are part of the BoC army (finally...) now, and they already have the one with the Shaman, bestigor and ungors, that wouldnt work.... unless it was a single model warband, more buffed to how they are in AoS. Would certainly be interesting to see. I am more interested in the upcoming Battletomes though. Any word on the street in that direction ?

I wonder about the Tzaangor shaman. Any leaks on the abilities ? Also and this is a important question - does he come on the Disc ? There is no foot version of this guy, and unlike the other tzaangors, his body and the disc are not separate entities you can magnetize, rather his body is partially casted together with the disc. Not impossible to convert, but a pain in the a*ss nonetheless, plus you are running the risk of damaging a not exactly cheap miniature. Overall though, as far as I see the use of this book, will be mostly campaign one for me. And occasional scenarios with its units/rules added. It seems to me the balance is all over the place, and I dont care for people super cheesing a small format game like this...

The list I am running: Leader - Khinerai Lfetakers Harridan 2 Melusai Sisters 1 Melusai Stalker 4 Witch Elves. Its just 8 miniatures, easy to transport, but its fairly fun list. Not creme de la creme, but definitely can pull their own weight. You might scoff at those 2 sisters, but the fact is, those 20 wounds are something like a center pillar. You can seriously rely on them to hold the line, and given some luck they can cut through stuff with sheer amount of attacks (fishing for crits, but thats something to be expected with the sad sad cards this warband has). The Stalker is mostly just for fun, and to see if you can get lucky. Granted the intent was to get her to chip at priority targets, before they get close so that you can proc your Double and get +1S +1A by the time you will be engaging them. Harridan is surprisingly good. Very fast, and while just S3, having 5 Attacks and being able to do 2/4 unlike the rest makes her very good assassin and objective hunter. Plus it allows you to proc some of the Leader skills where you need them due to her speed. Just something to think about when you get tired of the Gorgai who is ofc the top, but still the Harridan is not bad either. S3 is an issue, but not impossible to work around. Now the only thing I would change in this list is drop the Staker and get two SoS instead. Or a 3rd Stalker. You really cant ignore those 20 wounds. Against T5 armies those wounds will see you through the painful grind. Its sad when I look at the Corvus Cabal Shrike I always think "this is how the Sisters should have been" combat stats wise. Honeslty If it was me, Id swap the stats around a bit. The Khinerai are too expensive and squish. The intent for them is to be a Alpha strike unit, but they dont work. Meanwhile Melusai were ment to be the elite foot sloggers (err... tail sloggers ? ) If I did the cards, I`d swap around Khinerai and Melusai attacks around. The idea is they Alpha strike suicide units, while Melusai. 5A S3 2/4 for Khinerai, 4A S4 2/4 for Melusai (combat version) 2A S4 2/4 Khinerai, 3A S3 2/5 for Melusai (ranged version). Would make much more sense in regards to what they should be doing on the battlefield. But ah well, it is what it is, and unless its changed in a FAQ (not likely), there is not much to do about it.

Does anyone have a working link with the listing ? Seems the one posted here is no longer viable. As someone who got the Untamed Beasts cards, in order to use my Beastmen (you can pretty much proxy every single model from Untamed Beasts for an existing BoC model, even without converting. If you do convert there is literally no unit from that warband you cant make), I`d be more than happy to get me the proper BoC ones instead of those human Beastmen wannabees Also - I`d love to add a Tzaangor to my Corvus Cabal, painted in their warbands colors. ^ ^

So I decided to get my own Corvus Cabal as well, after playing few games with other warbands. Cabal miniatures look amazing, and the units stats and abilities pretty decent. Not best not worst either. Now I have yet to play a game with the cabal, but seeing how the game flows and how the units with this or that stat line perform I can pretty much make a decent guess on how these guys will run. My two cents about the Cabal I have drawn though> they can be a fantastic Elite army, rather than the Zerg mob they are introduced as. I have both DoK (who are rather underwhelming honestly, even their elite stuff doesnt have the stats, and you are essential crit fishing the whole time.) and Untamed Beasts who are one of the better warband out there. From the 5 games I played with both these warbands, I can draw a conclusion, that the Corvus Cabal has some fantastic potential for a elite army. The Shrike is one of the best units out there. From my experience with Melusai Blood Sisters who are of similar price and stat line, he has both better move, S4 and the basic dmg of 2. Overall better even if with just range of 1". S4 means less reliance on crits, and basic DMG2 means you can kill small units even without crits. For those points its very fast, very killy unit, under 200pts. If you wanted you can easely take 3 in your warband and fill the rest with Cabalites. There wont be many things these guys cant sweep through, and unlike Cypher Lords, who have the damage but lack the durability and fold once hit, the Shrikes can withstand pretty decent punishment (again similar to Melusai Sisters in this regard.). Honestly the list posted above is the same I want to run and seems pretty good overall. Seems like the best choice for the Cabal. I think it could also be interesting running just without a Shriek and have 5 Spire Stalkers and one Cabalite with crow, for some insane mobility without any real weak links, but also without any real umpfh to throw at something . But lets be honest, The Shrike is just way to cool. to Ignore. The whoel warband pretty much boils down to the Leader, Shrike, and the crouching cabalite with the Crow familiar Those are the top minaitures and thing that drew the most people in.

Thats assuming you are doing whatever it is you are doing. My cats are similar to my Razorgors. They shoot forward to tangle the priority target, even double tapping the movement for the full 16" if necessary. There is no way she can keep up with that. As I said, it depends on how you tend to play. When I play Warcry I go full BAAAAAH ! BoC rush. For me this is not a game of fine tactics and deceitful strategies, its a game of getting into the face of your enemy as soon as possible and introducing them to your axe (granted some strategy is required to lure the enemy out, or get an objective, but I call that Beastmen cunning, rather than strategy hahaha... make Khazzrak proud! ^^ ). The game is just to short most of the missions being 3-4 rounds at best. Thats honestly one of the things I dislike, but you can always agree to add one more round, simply because some scenarios are auto win/loose depending on your warbands`s mobility and how short the game is.

I guess it might be the way each of plays, or just general experience with this or that unite : P While she has very nice reach, and is a nice miniature, the way I move on the board, tend to activate units and use my dices, she never gets the chance to use that skill on the Cats before the Cats go, as most of the time I activate the Cat first, to remove a priority target, that could otherwise remove one or multiple of my models, Meaning I dont have the time leisure to wait another turn, after buffing the cat, till it gets its chance to dish out those super powered attacks.... now granted with two Cats it might be feasible to do. I have yet to test that, since so far I`ve been running the pre-made out of the box group. Regarding the Axe guys, they have proved to be very reliable, decently durable roadblock that serve as a great Leader bodyguard and damage dealers. I prefer them over the Sword guys, as the S4 is more valuable in my meta, and them being Dmg 2/4 means I can bash stuff even with regular attacks, rather than just spam Double for extra attacks and just hope for crits (like DoK do... darn I am still salty about how their elite cards turned out). Since I have my BoC, all I had to do was just get the cards and the warband was ready to rock & roll. I would skip them otherwise me thinks. For a actual new warband I wanted to go with either Cypher Lords or Corvus Cabal, mostly for the looks, and the fact both the warbands have some neat stuff going on, but seeing how brutal the game get, I think Cypher Lords are way to squishy despite their high dmg output. Meanwhile the Cabal has fairly durable leader and the big Tengu guy, who can also dish good amount of hurt and have great movement. Plus while I do like the Tzeentchian look of the Cypher lords (would swap the heads, and add some knick knacks to spiffy them out a bit though as they are kinda plain looking), the Cabal in general looks very cool even without any customizing added

Thanks Yeah I run my regular Beastmen that fit the bill as Untamed Beasts. Beatlord, two Bestigors with axes, Spear-shaman, two Warhounds and 3 little dudes. Not a fan of the whip girl. Honestly dropping her and one of the lil guys gets you a second beast, and the Axeman are too good to ignore. But I was asking this mostly coz I wanna make a Corvus Cabal with 3 of the big crow guys, leader and the rest just regular cultists. At first it didnt strike me as an elite warband, but after playing my DoK, I came to a conclusion that those Crow guys are pretty much Melusai blood sisters, but with S4 and Dmg2/4 (kinda what you`d expected the melusai would have been to be honest) with less range but better movement. Yet the Warband is presented as a zerg mob one, with bunch of lil cultist and a 140pts dude who is really not worth the points. Plus lets be honest the leader and the crow guys are just great looking miniatures, so thats why I want more of em Was really considering going for Cypher Lords as well, but maybe later. 3 warbands are honestly more than I`ll ever need I guess.

So just wondering if anyone here plays Warcry. Maybe you could answer this for me coz I wasnt able to find the answer anywhere but, for the Chaos Warbands, that come pre-built, do you have to use them in the same composition they come in ? Or can you make your own customized warband, using some units, while skipping others ? I know you can do your own warband with the other factions that got just the cards, to be Warcry compatible, but not sure about he chaos ones intended for the game from the get go.

If your BL carrying a combat artifact lives long enough to properly get into action, then your opponent is doing something very very wrong (no offense to your opponents), or you are already in control of the game leaving no window for them to target him, in which case the game should be pretty much over by this point. After most of my opponents see what that thing is capable of, he gets similar "priority treatment" like a Gorghon does. Meaning he becomes a bullet/magic magnet. But unlike a Gorghon he doesnt have a Wound pool nearly big enough to soak it. Am I saying its a bad choice ? Not even by a longshot, but the OP stated that there is a lack of chaff in that list, and my opinion in that particular list, I offered an opinion on how to free up some points to get that chaff. You are talking about the BL in vacuum and out of context (the army list), as if I was saying BL with Gnarlblade is a bad option in general, which I of course didn't as this is simply not the case, Technically he can also drop one of the bray shamans, but that will cost him mobility as I am believe currently they way the list flows one of them will be camping the Herdstone while the other will provide his movement aura to the main combat force, thus going to the front lines. **Admitedly its possible that the Tzsham will be camping the Herdstone with the SkyFire retinue close at hand, but while its possible due to their high speed and range, its not the optimal use for the group, especially since you want to try and add more Tzaangors to you infantry block via magic. As such I simply dont see this being the case.... as interesting as it could be though.** Currently the Shaman movement buff is an integral part of how BoC play, A Gnarlblade Beastlord, no matter how godly for those 90 points he gets.... is not (and again > keep the whole picture in mind. I am a huge fan of Beastlords in general, and am fairly pissed that they lost both the chariot mounts and the shield option since I had specifically kitbashed my Beastlord with a custom made shield.). I have no bone to pick with you, and I agree in general about what you said, but I have a dislike to being taken out of context and made to look as if I am claiming something, I do not, thus I had to follow up on it. Chers *** *** *** Now in regards to the OPs lack of chaff : Another alternative > In case you want to keep all the characters, then dropping one of the 3 bestigor units and adding two single chariots could help with that as well. Especially since chariots do benefit from the shaman as well, making them a great chaff option (and units of 3-4 can serve also as a very potent roadblock with a solid save and comparatively cheep price for the large wound pool they come with at those numbers).

Honestly in this list I`d say that Gnarlblade BL is kinda unnecessary. I mean sure, its a cheap killing machine, but I think I would drop him and a unit of Bestigors and add either some Centigors or Chariots (since Razorgors are now obsolete due to the price hike, if for 10 more you can get a chariot) for chaff and objective capture purpose. Then again I tend to play a slightly smaller format of 1500pts, and pretty much never use Predatory type Endless Spells, so take what I am saying with a pinch of salt.