AoS abandoned by my gaming group. Would like to see more QoL improvments for the game!

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, magtchu said:

This thread is slightly disconcerting - I was under the impression AoS was doing really well and growing year by year, is that not the case? That's what I see people say elsewhere.

It does very heavily depend on your area and the people inhabiting it! Plenty of places have vibrant AOS scenes.

I do worry about the self-fulfilling prophecy of this, however, it does also come down to "people can and should try non-GW games" when they're unhappy with GW as a whole. This is why anyone's frustration at AOS should absolutely NOT mean just go buy into 40k.

Secondly, (temporarily) leaving for other games unfortunately hits AOS harder than 40k, and like I say earlier in the thread--the interest issue is less about having new models to buy and more about GW barely supporting AOS in secondary and tertiary media. I truly believe a lot of the dissatisfaction after 3.0 settled is because we have nothing AOS-specific in WH+ aside from a model, we have ZERO news on any AOS games in development, we have much fewer BL releases, and even the specialist games lean more towards the 40k universe. Soulbound is a fantastic TTRPG but even they can only hold up AOS so much without GW's full backing.

I'll end this out by making it clear that most of the issues presented in this thread were/are *also* problems in 40k and WHF; they are overall a problem within GW itself and not at all unique issues to AOS. They are also not unfixable issues

 

[zilberfrid]

AoS models are quite popular for Frostgrave.

Most of this is about the game, not the models.

I don't like GW's games but they can make good models.

The only issue with that is that 2022 does not have a lot of new ones.

[magtchu]

Cool, I'm glad to hear it is doing well in some places. It's just I have an unmade AoS army sitting here that I have been dipping in and out of making and reading stuff like this makes me not want to bother.

[Fairbanks]

9 hours ago, magtchu said:

Cool, I'm glad to hear it is doing well in some places. It's just I have an unmade AoS army sitting here that I have been dipping in and out of making and reading stuff like this makes me not want to bother.

I've bought multiple ranges of the original Warmahordes armies since they announced Mk 4. I hated everything that Privateer Press did during the start of Mk 3, and if I am honest, I wasn't keen on the Mk 2 game either. Why did I buy it all? I really really really love the setting and a lot of the early lore. The armies aren't exactly original, but they do the theme well (What would you expect out of the Spanish Inquisition that loves pyromania?).

That AoS army you're building doesn't have to lock into this game. Cities of Sigmar work in any game that uses humans. Slaves to Darkness in anything that's a little darker. A ton of fantasy settings have Orcs, Elves, Goblins, Dwarfs, you name it, you can probably fit it in a setting you enjoy. Hell, build them with your own lore in mind. I've got a desert fantasy world of my own that is mostly unaffiliated with AoS that I've poured any work on said armies into. It's a haven for me and only me, to be honest, I don't need the validation of others to make what I do significant.

I guess here's another "Rah-Rah" moment. Warhammer store opened in my area in 2019. Meet a few people, get a few visitors hooked onto AoS. One guy I like, he's got his son, and his best friend (Nice guy, but complete opposite political alignment from me) into it. I could blame Covid for the lack of being a part of the hobby for 2020, but the reality is that we had twins and I get all sorts of grief from my antisocial wife who (as much as she tells me that I'm impatient), couldn't handle our two (screaming) kids for 3-4 hours. 2022, both of them have been keeping the AoS scene going. They've drifted into Battletech as of a few months ago, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next time I had an opportunity to get out for a meetup, they try to get me into that game before treating me to a game of AoS.

All of this is to say, don't let our discussion of how GW has been managing the game persuade you away from building an army you derive fun from.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Fairbanks

[pnkdth]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:35 PM, CommissarRotke said:

It does very heavily depend on your area and the people inhabiting it! Plenty of places have vibrant AOS scenes.

I do worry about the self-fulfilling prophecy of this, however, it does also come down to "people can and should try non-GW games" when they're unhappy with GW as a whole. This is why anyone's frustration at AOS should absolutely NOT mean just go buy into 40k.

Secondly, (temporarily) leaving for other games unfortunately hits AOS harder than 40k, and like I say earlier in the thread--the interest issue is less about having new models to buy and more about GW barely supporting AOS in secondary and tertiary media. I truly believe a lot of the dissatisfaction after 3.0 settled is because we have nothing AOS-specific in WH+ aside from a model, we have ZERO news on any AOS games in development, we have much fewer BL releases, and even the specialist games lean more towards the 40k universe. Soulbound is a fantastic TTRPG but even they can only hold up AOS so much without GW's full backing.

I'll end this out by making it clear that most of the issues presented in this thread were/are *also* problems in 40k and WHF; they are overall a problem within GW itself and not at all unique issues to AOS. They are also not unfixable issues

 

Yepp, and in most groups I've been in games go through cycles of popularity. Personally, I enjoy AoS and 40k more because of other games since I get ideas on themes and how to play differently from other systems. It also prevents burnout.

AoS, while not really a new game any more, is still doing world-building and establishing its setting. 40k has decades worth of lore and closing in on its 10th edition. Much like 40k AoS will go through growing pains, ups and downs, but I do not think the game is any danger of dying (quite the opposite). Just like how groups and gaming communities will abandon games they'll adopt others + cycle back to previously played games.

I've recently cycled back to FEC (the faction which got me into AoS), for example.

TL;DR: It is easy to get stuck in negative spirals and just like how you can find stories about groups abandoning AoS you can find stories of groups adopting AoS.

[Baron Klatz]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:17 PM, magtchu said:

This thread is slightly disconcerting - I was under the impression AoS was doing really well and growing year by year, is that not the case? That's what I see people say elsewhere.

Ah dude, AoS is doing amazing.

Since 2018 we’ve been consistently in the top 5 best selling miniature game spots duking it out with DND, Marvel & Star Wars. (We’ve never been able to topple 40k from it’s #1 spot but we’re usually in second place in 2018,2019 & 2021)
 

The lowest we’ve been is in 2020 at 5th place thanks to the far between releases but even half-way through this backburner year we’re still between 3rd & 4th place(no doubt when the Winter sales report comes in it’ll be a solid 3rd place with StD, Sons of Behemat & rejuvenated Warcry & UnderWorlds back at the helm.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/50617/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-lines-fall-2021

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/51799/miniatures-continue-get-bigger

Just remember misery loves company and forums tend to deviate towards that(just go on the Total War forums and take a drink for every “TWW is dying and CA are evil!!” post. You’ll be drunk very soon  )

Best example is the Dominion threads. 15 pages of conversation for the one with rumors it flopped vs the little activity on the official report that Dominion blew their expectations out of the water and has been their best selling fantasy product ever. 

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/28940-rumours-on-low-dominion-sales-discussion/

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/30576-gw-half-yearly-report-20212022/

 

So yeah, AoS is doing great. Keep enjoying what you’re doing and try to go to areas that don’t put a cloud over their heads and say all they can see is gloom. 😎👍

AoS Reddit, Blogs, Twitter, Discords and Battle Reports I would suggest for positivity you need.

Like for inspiration Warboss Kurgan just posted a really awesome Warcry narrative report of his pirate orruks raiding an Ogor Man-eater camp as Hysh lowered and caused nightfall.

https://warbosskurgan.blogspot.com/2022/11/further-adventures-in-scarlands-part-12.html?m=1
 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Siphon]

On 11/18/2022 at 3:39 PM, zilberfrid said:

AoS models are quite popular for Frostgrave.

Most of this is about the game, not the models.

I don't like GW's games but they can make good models.

The only issue with that is that 2022 does not have a lot of new ones.

A song of ice and fire minis are much better for Frostgrave.  They fit the theme much better, with House Stark and Rangers factions.  I wouldn’t think AOS minis would be all that great for Frostgrave but to each their own.

[zilberfrid]

6 hours ago, Siphon said:

A song of ice and fire minis are much better for Frostgrave.  They fit the theme much better, with House Stark and Rangers factions.  I wouldn’t think AOS minis would be all that great for Frostgrave but to each their own.

I do not have soiaf minis, but my goblin warband (Zarbag's with a small addition), Tzeench warband (based on Eyes of the Nine with a few extras) and Freeguild warband are chosen quite often when I bring them all.

Plus you need quite a few monsters.

I myself prefer the Frostgrave minis, mostly for their variety.

[Marcvs]

8 hours ago, Siphon said:

A song of ice and fire minis are much better for Frostgrave.  They fit the theme much better, with House Stark and Rangers factions.  I wouldn’t think AOS minis would be all that great for Frostgrave but to each their own.

You only get three poses/variants in a unit box though

[Vasshpit]

Oh the times they are a changing...

So i think a growing part of this is just change. Yes, GW puts out some of the best miniatures on the market. Its subjective of course but seems to be a general consensus and yes they are the OG juggernauts of this niche hobby of ours and most likely will be for quite some time. With that being said, folks are simply getting tired of prices and rules bloat. When alternatives like Frostgrave/Stargrave and OPR are fast emerging for a fraction of the cost, encouragement to bring the minis YOU WANT to use and like, and a much more stream lined and easy to pick up set of rules and in OPRs case are FREE. Its very easy to see why AoS and 40k may be taking a hit. 

I do not wish any ill will or the like upon either company but Geedubs has got to take notice of this or start to feel the effects. In OPRs case, let's be honest, its such a blatant piggy back of an existing established IP that it's almost laughable at times BUT they really are a game company of gamers making products for gamers. And with 3d printing growing in popularity, accessibility,  and quality day by day we see these folks really looking to the future of this niche hobby and utilizing that. 

Again I think its these thee key issues that in the end Geedubs needs to put in check or slowly but surely feel the affects.

•Cost.

•Rules bloat

•Suppot

Geedubs did something wrong when we see such an enthusiastic fan such as @KingBrodd lose interest when the one model he's been looking forward to caused such a fans interest to wain and take note of this... heh. 

Another example from my own consumer point of view is this. I like the concept behind ogors. Im an all things destro fan mostly but never really liked the current line enough to pull the trigger. Fast forward to now and a new Mawtribes book is announced and I grew to really like the new design we see in the bloodpelt hunter. But that was it... still a bunch of old resin sculpts in their line and nothing new resulting in Geedubs losing a potential new consumer of another army line all due from lack of "support". In that regard I'll wait another 3-5 years until ogors come around again but in todays ever growing pool of options that's a dangerous way to gamble when you're trying to get my $$.

In the end time will tell. Folks will go to and give their $$, time and interest to whats fun and enjoyable for them. 

Best of luck to the juggernaut and youngbloods alike. 

 

[RuneBrush]

On 11/18/2022 at 8:17 PM, magtchu said:

This thread is slightly disconcerting - I was under the impression AoS was doing really well and growing year by year, is that not the case? That's what I see people say elsewhere.

AoS is still in a great place in truth and we're still seeing a lot of good stuff coming out from GW at the moment.

What we are seeing is that the popularity of 3rd edition isn't as high as 2nd edition, due to a variety of reasons.  Combine this with a market stuffed with loads of great games, and you're seeing groups parking AoS and trying other things out.  I know my local group is playing a lot more in way of skirmish games, because it means we get more games in and a bit more social time.  It's not that AoS isn't popular - we've all got AoS armies and some are still painting armies up, just we're putting our limited gaming time into different systems if that makes sense?

[Sonnenspeer]

I have read several times in this forum, that GW does not support AoS enough etc.

For me, I have the feeling, GW is releasing too much stuff. I always find myself in the situation that I like this new army, and that  box is great and I'm also waiting for the next teased release. But I'm only able to to paint like what, maybe 10 models a month, buying a big box means I cant justify to buy anything for the next half a year. I'm constantly in the place of skipping products I really like or the danger of creating a big pile of shame. Often I cant decide to by anything at all (decision paralysis).

And I don't need new rules every half a year (looking at you GHB).

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

I have read several times in this forum, that GW does not support AoS enough etc.

For me, I have the feeling, GW is releasing too much stuff. I always find myself in the situation that I like this new army, and that  box is great and I'm also waiting for the next teased release. But I'm only able to to paint like what, maybe 10 models a month, buying a big box means I cant justify to buy anything for the next half a year. I'm constantly in the place of skipping products I really like or the danger of creating a big pile of shame. Often I cant decide to by anything at all (decision paralysis).

And I don't need new rules every half a year (looking at you GHB).

It can both be too much and not enough.

With the short lifecycle of an edition, some armies only get a battletome after over two years that fully fits that edition.

That army is not getting support.

On the other hand, there are yearly GHB's, campaign books that impact multiple armies and a whole new edition every three years, which feels overwhelming and leads to rules bloat.

That could be seen as too much support, but I'd describe it as too many requirements.

I don't care about the rules part of the game, and model-wise, it has been a very slow edition. I really don't care about infantry-sized heroes (I think they are WAY overpriced), which leaves only the swamp orcs, Stormcast and two boxes of Sylvaneth in the entire edition so far.

EDIT: I have purchased one rulebook per game of AoS I have played. That's not a brilliant score.

Edited November 21, 2022 by zilberfrid

[RuneBrush]

22 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

I have read several times in this forum, that GW does not support AoS enough etc.

That's both a true and false statement 😂  In comparison to 40k, AoS doesn't have the number of new miniatures, releases or even videos.  There's also a disparity in releases between armies within AoS - Khorne initially had 3 battletomes in the same number of years, but now are one army who tends to wait a long time.  Destruction hasn't seen anywhere near the amount of support that Order has for example.  It is very subjective and we can be a very emotive group of individuals if our own army isn't getting the amount of attention we feel it should do.

22 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

For me, I have the feeling, GW is releasing too much stuff. I always find myself in the situation that I like this new army, and that  box is great and I'm also waiting for the next teased release. But I'm only able to to paint like what, maybe 10 models a month, buying a big box means I cant justify to buy anything for the next half a year. I'm constantly in the place of skipping products I really like or the danger of creating a big pile of shame. Often I cant decide to by anything at all (decision paralysis).

The release schedule from GW is brutal.  As somebody who's been in the hobby since the late '80s, I've grown up interested and involved with pretty much every game they've released in some way.  However I've had to become selective in what I do pick up now.  I'm not a fast painter to any extent and certainly need to reduce the amount of unpainted stuff I've gathered.

One thing I have tried to do is to become more detached with the releases and only pick up the next project rather than a project that'll be added on the "to do list".  Very difficult when there's a heavy fear of missing out!

What I will say though is that I don't consider miniature releases and support to necessarily be the same thing.  I don't look at the Christmas boxes to be supporting an army - yes it's a cheap way to start an army off, but for most people isn't that helpful.  A new battletome can help to support an army, but really needs a miniature release to help bolster or replace old models.  The latest Ogor battletome is a good example, we've needed a plastic butcher and maneater miniatures for years, but we got one new plastic character instead.

22 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

And I don't need new rules every half a year (looking at you GHB).

I'm not going to disagree with you there.  That said I view the generals handbook as become more of a matched/tournament play requirement, if you're not playing events you can quite legitimately skip picking the latest one up until you need it.  What I do think should be more stable is rules releases - a 3 year release schedule is far too short with the number of armies that exist.

[Gareth 🍄]

I understand people often want their favourite battletomes updated for the current edition without a long wait, but for me a new battletome with next to no new miniatures is super unexciting.

I'm mainly here for the cool models though, as I've never been a huge fan of AoS as a game. Rank and flank mass battles is more my thing, that's the imagery that drew me to wargaming in the first place - the Old World might get me back into gaming more when it arrives.

[Fairbanks]

1 hour ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

I understand people often want their favourite battletomes updated for the current edition without a long wait, but for me a new battletome with next to no new miniatures is super unexciting.

Maybe it’s a by-product of collecting every army, but a Battletome with no releases never bothers me.

What’s really annoying is the distinct needs for refreshment, and getting nothing. Metal/resin like Skaven and Seraphon, past their primes like Marauders and most of Beasts, and armies that need models to look alive, like Fyreslayers.

I’ve had a rat sized hole in my collection since I started during The End Times, and it’s remained since.

[Dolomedes]

Some cracking posts in here.

I'm playing in a league at the moment, and there's probably about 16 of us with decent lists who are all loving it. I'd say it's more on the competitive than casual side of things, but it's not suffocatingly so. We sometimes even outnumber the 40k boys. There's definitely something to the competitive side of things that gets people playing, doing hobby and enjoying themselves.

I've played AoS since day 1 and have seen every edition. I play Beastmen - they're my only army. I know my army inside and out, but 3rd edition is the first time I've ever had to write a cheat sheet for it. Not because my list has got complicated - the BoC scrolls haven't changed for years. It's the rules bloat. Heroic actions, battle tactics, monstrous actions etc etc. It's impossible to remember and play a smooth game. The battleplans also seem to be becoming more bloated - alot of them we just don't play because they're lame.

I had the most fun playing in 1.0. It was simple, and I could play with a fun narrative army. I could show up with 200 goats, and my mate would show up with 200 Skaven. Sometimes we even played 2400 points and just filled the board with as much stuff as possible. We'd play from the campaign books and have a blast every time.

I'd love to rock up with hordes again and get invested in the narrative of my own battles, but there's so much stuff to track that you just can't do that in 3.0. I'd end every game with a migraine on turn 2. No way could I run my old list where almost every unit was maxed out. Lists now tend toward low drop elite armies where you don't have to do much thinking in game.

I agree with the sentiments about rules bloat. I think someone with a cheat sheet that's memorised all the tactics, plans, actions and learnt the most beneficial way to play these in their army is always going to smash a new player. It's not even particularly skilful.

Be honest - how many of you play games with scenery rules? Even though they're years old rules, I rarely see people using them because everyone forgets about them mid game.

I'm fortunate to have a great community around me, but I could see why people would be put off or want to stop playing. There are so many little interactions now that weren't there at the start, and if you don't know them, you just won't have fun. A competitive player could have a massive advantage by just deciding not to prompt their opponent if they missed activating something obvious.

In summary - fewer additional rules but keep it competitive. Games should be won and lost in deployment and movement, with some decent dice rolls. If it's less complicated people probably will find it more accessible, and we'll see more fun armies. I think a nice place to aim for should be that pretty much any army can beat the top meta if a newbie rolls hot.

[Popisdead]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:10 AM, RexHavoc said:

In short, there are a few problems with the quality of life of the game that I'd love to see GW address going forward.

1. Release schedule. 
    
2. Review embargoes.
    
3. Thondia.
    
4. Terrain.
    
5. I've seen more than one post around that 3rd edition isn't doing as well as people would like to see,
    
6. Underworld/beastgrave etc warbands.
    
7. Warhammer+ content.
    
8. Warhammer community
    
9. 'Community policing'.
   

This seems more a venting thread than reasons your gaming group would lose interest in a game.  The latter tends to be, significant shifts (Fantasy -> AoS), something shiny catches the eye (say Bolt Action after the movie Fury was released), aging out (mortgages are important to pay), covid/inflation (you did touch on this), people move.  And it appears like you are holding a company responsible for the state of the world at the moment.  

1) This may be one of the first times someone complained about the AoS release schedule.  I recall the flip side where after 7th or 8th ed was release (HE vs Skaven) there was nothing for 3/4 of a year.  What does Quality of Life have to do with a company releasing products.  Generally when people start to complain about releases or how GW does stuff they have been in the hobby about 10-15 years and are moving into the next phase of their life.  Consider looking inwards at why people are feeling this.  Are people getting married and moving on?  Not sure why you would complain about supply demand as strictly a GW issue.  Have you been aware of the pandemic since March 2020?  You can always order a book and wait for it to show up.  

2) if you are interested in an army, buy it or don't.  Don't rely on YT reviews to make your decision for you.  That's a WAAC move.  If making sure you only buy an army on release day based on knowing what someone else thinks of it, maybe this is the wrong hobby for you.

3) if you don't like a campaign book is someone demanding you use it?   You are upset GW is releasing more options for people who play the game often?  Why do people behave like that?  "omg gw released a planet strike style of play and i don't like it so i don't want GW to do this"... "paywall" is also a key factor in people who are aging out of the game being their priority.  Consider finding some way to make peace with your hobby.

4) terrain is the one thing that's perfectly fine.  there is a generic set of rules to apply to whatever.  The guy i play locally has all non-GW cheaper pre-fab terrain and since GW provided the rules it's never been an issue.  "oh this has this keyword and does this.  great"

5) so a few people are complaining about something online.  I guess that's how people form their belief systems and facts.  

6) is this an underworlds rant or AoS rant?  or just GW rant?

7) is this a streaming service rant or AoS Rant? or just a GW rant?

8 ) Is this a blog rant or AoS Rant or GW rant?  If you are complaining your local group lost interest in a group how does complaining about streaming, other games, websites relate?  Well it's stuff you are finding to not like.  

9) well FB is dumb (i'm still surprised people go there) and if you are going to FB to play your AoS games I see why the group lost interest.  

 

I was reading a thread on dakka where people were complaining the mods here shut down negativity too fast.  

 

Here is how I play AoS.  I have some friends who play it.  I have some models i've painted and I like.  I have the army book and rulebook.  I write a list and arrange a game and play and have fun.  The people who don't do this tend to have struggles with how a game evolves over the years.

[zilberfrid]

18 hours ago, Popisdead said:

This seems more a venting thread than reasons your gaming group would lose interest in a game.  The latter tends to be, significant shifts (Fantasy -> AoS), something shiny catches the eye (say Bolt Action after the movie Fury was released), aging out (mortgages are important to pay), covid/inflation (you did touch on this), people move.  And it appears like you are holding a company responsible for the state of the world at the moment.  

1) This may be one of the first times someone complained about the AoS release schedule.  I recall the flip side where after 7th or 8th ed was release (HE vs Skaven) there was nothing for 3/4 of a year.  What does Quality of Life have to do with a company releasing products.  Generally when people start to complain about releases or how GW does stuff they have been in the hobby about 10-15 years and are moving into the next phase of their life.  Consider looking inwards at why people are feeling this.  Are people getting married and moving on?  Not sure why you would complain about supply demand as strictly a GW issue.  Have you been aware of the pandemic since March 2020?  You can always order a book and wait for it to show up.  

2) if you are interested in an army, buy it or don't.  Don't rely on YT reviews to make your decision for you.  That's a WAAC move.  If making sure you only buy an army on release day based on knowing what someone else thinks of it, maybe this is the wrong hobby for you.

3) if you don't like a campaign book is someone demanding you use it?   You are upset GW is releasing more options for people who play the game often?  Why do people behave like that?  "omg gw released a planet strike style of play and i don't like it so i don't want GW to do this"... "paywall" is also a key factor in people who are aging out of the game being their priority.  Consider finding some way to make peace with your hobby.

4) terrain is the one thing that's perfectly fine.  there is a generic set of rules to apply to whatever.  The guy i play locally has all non-GW cheaper pre-fab terrain and since GW provided the rules it's never been an issue.  "oh this has this keyword and does this.  great"

5) so a few people are complaining about something online.  I guess that's how people form their belief systems and facts.  

6) is this an underworlds rant or AoS rant?  or just GW rant?

7) is this a streaming service rant or AoS Rant? or just a GW rant?

8 ) Is this a blog rant or AoS Rant or GW rant?  If you are complaining your local group lost interest in a group how does complaining about streaming, other games, websites relate?  Well it's stuff you are finding to not like.  

9) well FB is dumb (i'm still surprised people go there) and if you are going to FB to play your AoS games I see why the group lost interest.  

 

I was reading a thread on dakka where people were complaining the mods here shut down negativity too fast.  

 

Here is how I play AoS.  I have some friends who play it.  I have some models i've painted and I like.  I have the army book and rulebook.  I write a list and arrange a game and play and have fun.  The people who don't do this tend to have struggles with how a game evolves over the years.

I'm quickly going to address this from my (not OP's) point of view.

1) This is not the first time the release schedule comes up, I have read it quite a few times, and I had issues with it as well.

2) An important thing in an army is how it plays, and whether that intention is realised in the rules. This has nothing to do with WAAC. I do agree that the look and feel of an army is more important than its rules, but then I stopped using the AoS ruleset.

3) I'm not sure, but I think campaign books overwrote rules in the existing battletomes, which means you'd have to buy it to keep playing the same army. If not, it's all good.

4) It would be nice if terrain was more consistent in availability and rule support. Quite a few things have had rules for only a short time before they were removed.

5) Old World teasing could very well put people out of diving into AoS, especially with its denser ruleset in 3.

6) I agree this isn't that much of a point, especially the "why is this set cheaper than the hilariously overpriced Infantry hero" bit.

7) This is a "GW isn't doing much to hype up AoS on their steaming service" bit. And that's important. 40k lives on lore and hype, so if GW ignores lore and hype for AoS, that's not helping the influx of new players.

8 ) Agreed here.

9) Partly agree. FB still has quite a few users, and for some games it's a good way to speak with the writers (Frostgrave, Stargrave, Rangers especially). Still not something GW can fix.

Edited November 24, 2022 by zilberfrid

[Baron Klatz]

13 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

3) I'm not sure, but I think campaign books overwrote rules in the main book, which means you'd have to buy it to keep playing the same army. If not, it's all good.

Not the main rules, Thondia is just the GHB stuff + Anvil of Apotheosis and Narrative add-ons. You could totally ignore it or see it as a big Narrative expansion to the GHB.

(Really hope we see a Gallet version next year I can grab too)

Only the Everchosen and the Broken Realms series changed rules up but that was for factions which were a mix of edition change foreshadowing(Chaos sub-factions, Ghur roaming beasts & Coalitions) and alternative updates as was the case for Lumineth where either getting the BR:Teclis or 2nd battletome would have you good to go.

[Flippy]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:49 PM, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Ask and you shall receive!

Ok, long time but since I've asked for this, I will also comment. This is really good; the battleplans and scoring are clean and easy to grasp, the moments of glory is a neat idea to get away from battle tactics / grand strategies while still adding something specific to achieve. I would keep the miscast - I've always liked this rule. Save the General is a no-brainer though and will probably be implemented by GW sooner or later. As for the terrain - I've never even bothered with the official rules, it's just too much.

Anyway, last time I played it was already too late to introduce this to my mates, which (as always) resulted in a lot of time spent on pondering the battle tactics and playing strictly for the points. It was fun, but also exhausting. It also felt a bit too much... scoring-driven? Maybe it's just me, but a little too often I look at the table and instead of beautifully painted brave soldiers, I see some probability / geometry puzzle to solve.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Flippy

[RuneBrush]

17 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I was reading a thread on dakka where people were complaining the mods here shut down negativity too fast.  

We'll shut down ranting and unconstructive negativity, but threads like this where everyone is putting good arguments and debate down have always been fine.  Generally the comments on other forums have come from members who just wanted to moan and complain 😂

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Not the main rules, Thondia is just the GHB stuff + Anvil of Apotheosis and Narrative add-ons. You could totally ignore it or see it as a big Narrative expansion to the GHB.

(Really hope we see a Gallet version next year I can grab too)

Only the Everchosen and the Broken Realms series changed rules up but that was for factions which were a mix of edition change foreshadowing(Chaos sub-factions, Ghur roaming beasts & Coalitions) and alternative updates as was the case for Lumineth where either getting the BR:Teclis or 2nd battletome would have you good to go.

Ah, I did not know that. I haven't been well in the loop in 3rd.

For the "main book" I did mean "battletome", I'll edit. I don't think series like Broken Realms should be a requirement to play with the rules in the existing battletome. That's what errata are for. This is not saying they can't add extra options, but they should not invalidate existing options.

[Koala]

Well, as has been mentioned, the size of the tt game/Community ( even though it is not THAT big compared to some others) means any game can prosper in one area while failing in others.

I DO have to say that AoS 3 / 40K 9th have been desastrous in my area. Which i DO blame at least in part on the rules Changes. But then: corona and people having children/mortages 

It does feel like tournament gaming is on the rise, though - which makes sense considering the direction of the rules writing.

 

I guess the sales can hardly be bad - lots of stuff sold out in their own shop and considering the low cost of machine time there is hardly any reason for them to not restock asap. 

[Grimrock]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:30 AM, Popisdead said:

Here is how I play AoS.  I have some friends who play it.  I have some models i've painted and I like.  I have the army book and rulebook.  I write a list and arrange a game and play and have fun.  The people who don't do this tend to have struggles with how a game evolves over the years.

I'm sorry, but honestly your whole post is just coming across as extremely condescending to someone who is struggling with the game and is looking for ways to improve it. Just because your gaming group is still working great doesn't mean you've found the secret sauce and everyone who does anything differently will struggle. If the gaming group moves on there's not much you can do about it and, trust me, just because your group is solid now doesn't mean it's going to be that way forever. I've been playing these games for... dang almost 23 years now and no group I've ever seen is immortal. 

I've never been able to get friends into the hobby, as hard as I've tried it just doesn't interest them. It's either too expensive, too complicated, too time consuming, or all three, so I rely entirely on a LGS to supply opponents. This has been working great for the last few years we have a thriving community with 15+ players regularly. Or at least we did. I've been on an involuntary break from the game since May, but I popped into the LGS for the first time in a few months the other day and it turns out while I was gone almost the entire gaming group migrated away from AoS to Marvel Crisis Protocol. This isn't the first time this has happened to me, but now it leaves me in a really tough spot. Back in the day I'd just migrate with the group to play the new game, or I'd bounce to a different store and try to get in with a group there. Unfortunately the next closest store is about 45 minutes away which just isn't viable with the gas prices lately, and honestly even though I like MCP I just want to play AoS at the moment. The only real hope I have at this point is people get bored with the new game in a few months or maybe they bounce back to AoS when the next GHB gets released.
 

Edit: Rewrote the post so I'm not being so snarky. Sorry again, I just really want to start getting back to the old routine and playing some games but I've run smack into a brick wall here. Just sucks is all.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Grimrock