The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[CommissarRotke]

7 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Seems the old flagellants..

[CDM]

Uh oh. Whitefang gave me a confused reaction! Hopefully it was to the idea of a split battletome rather than a wave 2!

21 minutes ago, CDM said:

I too expected from this release at least a cathedral and greatsword equivalents!

I'm astounded by this release though it's amazing and looks great. I do feel however they'll take the place of stormcast as the poster faction.

I expect a second wave like Lumineth in the not two distant future. This will cover the cathedral, new priests and devotees, witch hunters etc. 

And possibly the third phase will be the cogfort, and more artillery.

I think this base to an new army may be the best they've ever started a faction with. Could easily see two battletomes in the future. The crusade battletome and the traditional City guard one.

 

[Freemeta]

last hope is in the crusade books.

[Sete]

I absolutely love the leaks. 

Well time to start planning my DiY Crusade.

Bit disapointed for the lack of a Greatsword unit. Would look great with this new look.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Sete

[sandlemad]

35 minutes ago, Freemeta said:

I don’t think these are bad minis but they are so ridiculously swole that they veer into a different sort of comical. You’ll have your steelhelms, your cavaliers, and then these ridiculously roided up gymrats whipping themselves and leaping into the fray.

[Austin]

31 minutes ago, CDM said:

Uh oh. Whitefang gave me a confused reaction! Hopefully it was to the idea of a split battletome rather than a wave 2!

 

I just wouldn't get your hopes up for more than what they've showed anytime in the near (or more than near) future.

[Clan's Cynic]

The lack of a War Priest or generic Witch Hunter is still a surprise to me, either of which could easily have gone into the Command Corps. I wonder if the Silver Tower War Priest mould spontaneously combusted, which is why we've not seen one since.

[Baron Klatz]

51 minutes ago, CDM said:

Uh oh. Whitefang gave me a confused reaction! Hopefully it was to the idea of a split battletome rather than a wave 2!

 

It was probably on your assumption of them taking the place of Stormcast as posterboys.

Freeguild are awesome but don’t hold a candle to how easy it is to recognize a Stormcast Eternal by just a glance at their huge shining armor or seraphim masks and between being new painter starters…well this comment on Reddit sums it up:

“

BaseballWorking2251 28m

Best thing about aos is that i don't have to be a good painter to mount a respectable stormcast army. Cos is for experts. Glad i didn't play the old world, I would not have stuck with it. Look forward to see what some local brush masters can do with some of these.”

 

The new Freeguild are amazing but would scare off people as an entry point with those crazy details, which is an important part of posterboy status for easy entry. Stormcast Eternals are as simple as dipping into a golden paint pot and ready to go. 👌 ⚡️ 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I would have liked to have seen:

greatsword unit replacement.

the command squad thing could have been swapped out and released at a later date.

other than greatswords, I’m very surprised by no big cathedral/ popemobile and priest. Heck they removed that volkmar sprue build option from the hurricanum, they could have made a new version to add to the box.

I like the Marshall on horseback a lot. I like how his horse is less armored, but it’s weird there isn’t consistency between him and the cavaliers. If anything they should match, but I would think the Marshall should have the fully barded horse and the cavaliers have the lighter option..

 

[Ejecutor]

Lets think for a moment Malerion and new Dwarven faction are released and we only have humans left in CoS. Old stuff is removed as well. How many units would we need to have a solid army? I think we would have more renewals not so far in time, but there's the chance of not getting anything else soon.

[Clan's Cynic]

14 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Lets think for a moment Malerion and new Dwarven faction are released and we only have humans left in CoS. Old stuff is removed as well. How many units would we need to have a solid army? I think we would have more renewals not so far in time, but there's the chance of not getting anything else soon.

It's hard to really predict anything when GW are so random about these things. CoS could get a second wave in six months, or in ten years. 

The two most glaring omissions for me are the lack of an elite infantry unit and, weirdly, a lack of generic Heroes. Ironically we have an Arch-Knight... but no actual foot Knights. 

They make a big deal about the Dawnbringer Crusades being big, lavish religious affairs... but the only Priest Hero in the army is a named character? We have the Friar Tucks in the Steelhelm unit, but no Warrior Priests? No War Altar? Not even a generic version of Zenestra? Witch Hunters are similarly very iconic to Warhammer, but there's only the ven Densts and the Underworlds warband, neither of which are new to this release. Strange.

Retaining the General on Griffin (and Mage) was a surprise. Does make me wonder if maybe they'll see an update at some point, possibly with the later Dawnbringer books? That's my being very optimistic though.

If we ignore the Dwarf and Dark Elf units, there's still a pretty solid core range there though. I could imagine GW going a while before bringing about a second wave, particularly when Ossiarchs, Kharadron, Fyreslayers and the like have languished for a while now. Of course people have been begging for 'Average Joes' since Day 1 of AoS, so it might be they already have future plans in the works already.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Typical Warhammer fans... they know what the full range is, and even if it's massive and not released yet, they start talking about what they want in the second wave that comes after... Please don't change a bit, I love you the way you are. 

Even if to be fair, I would welcome such a release with open arms.

[CDM]

17 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Typical Warhammer fans... they know what the full range is, and even if it's massive and not released yet, they start talking about what they want in the second wave that comes after... Please don't change a bit, I love you the way you are. 

Even if to be fair, I would welcome such a release with open arms.

This is true but I honestly think this will be like realm lords where there is a second smaller wave incoming soon. How difficult must it of been for them not to do 30 units! I bet the designers mouths were watering at the prospect of a new human faction🤣 . There must have been some sensible person reigning it in a bit!

[Freemeta]

7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The box says 52 warscroll cards, but the article says 54 warscrolls. Which can both be correct at the same time.

just my 2 cents: it says 54 units not 54 warscrolls: maybe it's 52 warscrolls for 54 units.

elite infrantry are duardin and aelf unit i guess (ironbreakers, executioners etc).

Edited August 4, 2023 by Freemeta

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

Lets think for a moment Malerion and new Dwarven faction are released and we only have humans left in CoS. Old stuff is removed as well. How many units would we need to have a solid army? I think we would have more renewals not so far in time, but there's the chance of not getting anything else soon.

Some armies have 3 troops kits and a few heroes with 1 or two special units (monsters, ships, artillery...). I don't like that type of rosters, we play armies from Factions, but this Factions doesn't feel as big as they should.

I really hope that CoS doesn't end as another micro-army.

[Lord Krungharr]

2nd wave?  Hmmm, I wouldn't want to even buy this tome then if less than a year later I'll need ANOTHER tome.  That would stink.  However, I would want to play with my 4 Steam Tanks, Luminark, Hurricanum, and smattering of coalition allies until then.   Guess I'll have to get the book.  Probably this box set even though I really only want the alchemite forge guy.

[RyantheFett]

So it looks like GW did not do a lot of overlap with the new units. No elite weapons, no monsters, spear men, etc. Means that there should be some mixing of the races? Also glad to also see the glow up for the dwarfs that were leaked. Was afraid that a lot of the non human stuff would not be touched or nurfed off the table.

Of course still worried with how much they did the race bonuses and a quick glace does make it feel like Cities will be 3 or 4 mini armies that GW will easily pluck out into their own factions in the future......

[sandlemad]

6 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

So it looks like GW did not do a lot of overlap with the new units. No elite weapons, no monsters, spear men, etc. Means that there should be some mixing of the races? Also glad to also see the glow up for the dwarfs that were leaked. Was afraid that a lot of the non human stuff would not be touched or nurfed off the table.

I kind of like the idea that the response was "You want elite humans? They're called dwarfs."

[Hollow]

There is also the fact that it is highly likely that we will see AoS 4.0 in less than a year's time. With the hype machine beginning in earnest in only 9/10 months from now. I could easily see a few new kits accompanying a CoS 4 Battletome in late 2024 or 2025. They have to leave something for a decent update to the faction in the next edition. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

They really don’t. They can come up with something new for a new battletome, but they should update/ replace standard things the first go around.

heck they should just update model lines that need it throughout the year (leaving rules as is) then when a book comes around update the scrolls and include NEW things

[CDM]

So how many kits is this release then?

[Ejecutor]

2 hours ago, CDM said:

So how many kits is this release then?

Alchemite Warforger
Freeguild Cavalier-Marshal 
Freeguild Cavaliers
Freeguild Command Corps
Freeguild Fusiliers
Freeguild Marshal and Relic Envoy
Freeguild Steelhelms
Fusil-Major on Ogor Warhulk
Inronweld Great Cannon
Pontifex Zenestra, Matriarch of the Great Wheel
Tahlia Vedra Lioness of the Parch
Wildercorps Hunters

Edited August 4, 2023 by Ejecutor

[Lord Krungharr]

One thing that gives me positive vibes for running Steam Tanks is the Hurricanum and Luminark and new cannon all have the HUMAN keyword, and the buffs on those affect HUMAN units....and Steam Tanks have humans in them.  The Cogsmith is a dwarf though, but he's and Ironweld guy, so I bet he'll work on the cannon and S'tanks (and Gyrocopter/Bomber) again, and hopefully do some more interesting things or get to pick from a variety of things (healing or augmenting movement, etc).  I expect very very little to improve on the Gyros, but hoping they can run in squadrons of 1 or 3 like Chaos Chariots, because 3 would be AWESOME, even if they remain the same.

[CDM]

34 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Alchemite Warforger
Freeguild Cavaliers
Freeguild Command Corps
Freeguild Fusiliers
Freeguild Marshal and Relic Envoy
Freeguild Steelhelms
Fusil-Major on Ogor Warhulk
Inronweld Great Cannon
Pontifex Zenestra, Matriarch of the Great Wheel
Tahlia Vedra Lioness of the Parch
Wildercorps Hunters

This quantity surprises me. I was hoping and expecting at least 13/14

[HorticulusTGA]

35 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Alchemite Warforger
Freeguild Cavaliers
Freeguild Command Corps
Freeguild Fusiliers
Freeguild Marshal and Relic Envoy
Freeguild Steelhelms
Fusil-Major on Ogor Warhulk
Inronweld Great Cannon
Pontifex Zenestra, Matriarch of the Great Wheel
Tahlia Vedra Lioness of the Parch
Wildercorps Hunters

It's a great range, that crowns what we got so far for "baseline Order humans". In AOS1 it was the Excelsior Warpriest (from Warhammer Quest), in AOS2 we got Galen and Doralia Ven Denst and the Cursed City cast, and in AOS3 we got the Hexbane Witch Hunters (from Warhammer Underworld). Interesting and varied sculpts, even if mostly for the Devoted Of Sigmar. 

BUT let's remember that the real "baseline humans" from the Mortal Realms - in terms of quantity  - are the basic Chaos Barbarians like the Darkoath and other Warcry warbands (which was the point of that game, showing the cultures of the Mortal Realms). And yes, Chaos Barbarians are still more widespread and numerous than the Order races (according to White Dwarf, Warcry and Slaves to Darkness battletome).