AoS 3.0 - Ogor Mawtribes Discussion

[Duke of Mousillon]

3 hours ago, Frowny said:

8d6

What? How do you  come to thst specific number?

And I am not sold on that idea. The rend should do a lot of work because it basically makes everything -2 rend. Remember we want the 10 Hailshot from an Ironblaster not just the 2 Cannonballs. Making the 10 hailshots and the leadbelcher shots -2 rend is big. 

[Frowny]

3 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said:

What? How do you  come to thst specific number?

4 rhinox with the spell to become monsters each charging 2d6 for the allegiance ability.

[Schauer]

9 hours ago, Frowny said:

One thing I wonder about for the shooty list is if you are still better off in one of the other tribes rather than the shooty one? The guns are fine as is on the warscroll and +1 on the charge mortals is sweet, and hitting someone with 8d6 mortals on 3+ with the spell if they get close is brutal. Should average to like... 18 or so? It also helps the stonehorn you are probably running.

The extra rend I think is just too good to pass up. 2 rend 2 damage is great and for the long shots not many heroes will survive 3 rend and be able to make a save. Meatfist is intriguing to bring but its important to note meatfist wouldn't help the stonehorn since he is not a gutbuster. The real benefactor of going meatfist would be the ironblaster as with blubbergrub stench they would be doing charge damage on 3's,

[Ganigumo]

The meatfist option is intriguing, but I think the rend on the hailshot is probably better.
Also if you really want to spam 3+ mortals Big names are no longer once per army, so you could have multiple brawlerguts tyrants running around that don't rely on a spell.

[Magnus The Blue]

10 hours ago, Frowny said:

One thing I wonder about for the shooty list is if you are still better off in one of the other tribes rather than the shooty one? The guns are fine as is on the warscroll and +1 on the charge mortals is sweet, and hitting someone with 8d6 mortals on 3+ with the spell if they get close is brutal. Should average to like... 18 or so? It also helps the stonehorn you are probably running.

All depends on how deep you are going into Ironblasters/Lead Belchers.  That extra point of rend is game-changing in some matchups. EDIT: ignore this bit: {and that +1 is only one extra mortal per 3 charges, so maybe 3-6 across the game. }

Edited November 11, 2022 by Magnus The Blue

[Ganigumo]

6 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

All depends on how deep you are going into Ironblasters/Lead Belchers.  That extra point of rend is game-changing in some matchups and that +1 is only one extra mortal per 3 charges, so maybe 3-6 across the game.  

Its roughly 1 mortal per charge actually, or closer to 2 with kragnos.
average roll on 2d6 is 7, so you'll roll 7 dice so there's a good chance a 3 will show up.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

Its roughly 1 mortal per charge actually, or closer to 2 with kragnos.
average roll on 2d6 is 7, so you'll roll 7 dice so there's a good chance a 3 will show up.

Sorry, did some crazy in my head maths there. Your right about 1.12MW per charge. I still think the rend is better if your investing seriously in the shooting. 

[Ganigumo]

14 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Sorry, did some crazy in my head maths there. Your right about 1.12MW per charge. I still think the rend is better if your investing seriously in the shooting. 

Definitely, the difference between rend 1 & 2 is massive in our current world of save stacking.

[Magnus The Blue]

On 11/11/2022 at 3:11 PM, Ganigumo said:

Definitely, the difference between rend 1 & 2 is massive in our current world of save stacking.

And rend 3 shooting is both very rare and a game changer in some matchups: looking at you basilidons. 

[Fellman]

First game new book lost vs big whaaag fun and tight game
 

Bloodgulet
Frost lord ston horn splaterklever
Butcher General molten + bloodfeast
Hunter + 4 wolfs
2x6 glutons Bountihunter
4 ironguts Bountihunter
8 ledbelshers
2000p
list worked ok will swap splater for arcane tombe

[Mutton]

Don't want to be a negative Nancy, but after playing a handful of games with the new book, my opinion is that Gutbusters still received the short end of the stick, despite their buffs. I'm speaking from a melee-oriented, non-Underguts skew perspective.

Gluttons and Ironguts are far too expensive in points. They fall like leaves in the wind to anything that attacks them, and if they're not in combat when they take casualties, you run a real risk of models fleeing en masse--devastating to such a low model count army. While their potential damage is impressive, they still suffer in this edition of save stacking. Units can so easily get +1 or +2 to their save that even the new Rend -1 to Gluttons isn't good enough in many engagements.

You'll run into plenty of situations where a unit of Gluttons will charge in and end up doing 2-6 damage because the enemy was still rolling a 3+ or better save (and then there are wards to consider). I have yet to enjoy a combat where the Gluttons did the work they should, they always underperform. Even in situations where they do well on the assault and kill maybe half of the enemy; they inevitably get hit back and lose half of their own unit--when they were the ones that charged! 

While Ironguts will do better with their -2 rend and fight twice ability, the fact that there are only 4 of them on a 4+ save means they rarely get into combat before being blasted into oblivion. And again, if anything counter charges them, they're dead without question. If they survive getting to the front lines, they always survive precisely one combat phase before being removed.

Tyrants, while much tougher, are pretty useless. They still do no damage (half of my combats they quite literally do 0). I'm considering removing him from the list because he just does nothing noteworthy. Even as a Trophy Rack wielder, the artifact itself isn't amazing, most heroes are hard to reach in the backline and monsters usually wipe out your guys before they can act. The book was once again cursed with a sub-par selection of Command Traits and Artifacts to choose from.

Let's not even discuss Maneaters. They're so bad. Make them 120 or something and maybe we'll talk.

While I don't run full shooting lists, I've tried out Leadbelchers piecemeal. They still suck outside of Underguts, the marginal bonus attacks mean nothing when they're hitting on 4+s. You wouldn't take them unless you're in Underguts or can't afford anything else.

The most annoying thing is that there's still no real reason to play Gutbusters over Beastclaw Raiders again. Stonehorn are still the best thing in the book by far. Think about the fact that 2 units of Gluttons (12 dudes) costs 530 points......almost 100 points more than a Frostlord on Stonehorns. Are 12 Gluttons better than a Stonehorn? HAHAHA, absolutely not.

TLDR: Gutbusters still underperform in the current game. They received slightly better warscrolls, but also premium points price tags. Drop Gluttons and Ironguts back to around 200, Drop the Tyrant to 120 or something, or rewrite his scroll to have real attacks.

[Boar]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

While Ironguts will do better with their -2 rend and fight twice ability, the fact that there are only 4 of them on a 4+ save means they rarely get into combat before being blasted into oblivion

That's why some folks run them in 8 so they can better leverage fighting twice. Also Gutbuster side in general are not helped by GV/Bounty Hunters.

As for Tyrant, well dude does dmg for me so far mainly in charge phase (Meatfist/Brawlerguts), but I like him nonetheless. He is not priced differently than similar heroes considering both dmg and effective wounds per point, so I would not hold my breath for changes. Also with similar heroes like Admiral I have quite some success so maybe it's just he whiffed few times, not that he is amazing killer or anything, but looks decent enough.

[Lord Krungharr]

What about running all Yhetees and Gnoblars?  Viable?!?

[spenson]

Gutbusters do have some good units.

The ironblaster will probably get hit very hard by the nerf bat as soon as GW can do it. I probably see it cost at least 200 points if not more. The trophy rack is also 100% likely to get a nerf to only have an effect on melee attacks. I considered getting a tyrant with deatcheater just to be wielder of the Gruesome Trophy Rack because it makes the canons so strong.

All the wizards are pretty good. I'm glad they all have their pros and cons.

Gluttons are one of our only sources of GV and they're not bad at doing exactly that. Having access to -1 rend makes them a bit better. If you only play beastclaw with no GV you may have some scoring issues in a few scenarios. This happened to me a few times playing only mournfangs as battlelines.

Gnoblars unfortunately don't have a way to become GV so no conquerors for them but they're still a good screen at 100 points for 20 25mm bases.

I agree that ironguts, leadbelchers and maneaters are too expensive but overall gutbusters are ok now. The new book gives a good incentive to mix both gutbusters and beastclaw raiders and that's a good thing.

[KriticalKhan]

In the time before time, before Nurgle corrupted our lands with his foul bat-born plague, I posted this guy here before trying to paint him. I didn't like it, stripped the paint, lost the head, then left it on my table, staring at me with his freaky neck stump as I tried painting everything except him. But I'm done procrastinating! I found a new head, cut the hand off, and... tried some milliput sculpting to finish the conversion. My fellow brogres, only the painting remains. Please ignore that I'm only finishing this to procrastinate on the Chaos Knights I just bought, which I only bought to practice for the Stormcast I have ordered, which I only bought because I couldn't wait for the World Eaters to release, which I only wanted to start because I was getting bored of my vampires. Which I only bought to procrastinate on my ogres. Huh.

[Fellman]

Lost a thitg game vs
Scinari Enlightener
2x stonmages
3x10 stongards
2x cow
endles spel of petricication

thay ar hard to crack neded stonhorn + 12 glutons to kill one unit of stonguard

[spenson]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:58 PM, Fellman said:

Lost a thitg game vs
Scinari Enlightener
2x stonmages
3x10 stongards
2x cow
endles spel of petricication

thay ar hard to crack neded stonhorn + 12 glutons to kill one unit of stonguard

Ymetrica is a very tough match up for a lot of armies. You really need your charges to work because Avalenor with a 0+ save and ignore -2 rend is hard to kill without the appropriate amount of MW (totally random example, didn't happen to face it a couple time).

Even in thunderbellies your ironblasters end up with -1 rend at long range (stupid interaction on how rend increases work) so while each failed save will hurt, you won't deal a lot of damage.

Just a note on your list, 1925 is extremely low, you could move a few thing around. Also you may consider Blubbergrub Stench even if you only have 3 rhinox in the army. That spell is so good it's crazy. Judging from your list you played a battle regiment. From my recent experience we don't really need it anymore and it's actually a disadvantage to set up our army first when we can handle an early enemy double turn pretty well.

Your opponent's list was pretty good, I've seen it in tournament a couple times. Really looking forward to never face expert conqueror stoneguards anymore. I'm only surprised they didn't play the Cogs, they're so strong in every LRL list. Looks like they made quite a few mistakes with their deployment though. Even with speed of Hysh, the cows probably won't see combat before round 2-3. It'd be a shame to waste Avalenor when it can kill basically any unit in your army in 1 turn and Ogors hate any -1 to hit (even worse when you face a shining company + Avalenor).

Final sidenote for future games, looks like the forest is too close to the central objective but it's a bit hard to tell from the picture.

[Mutton]

Mountain Lumineth armies are nonsense. They get a gajillion free buffs and debuffs and are nearly impossible to kill. A 120 point Stoneguard unit shouldn't be able to take a 260 pt Glutton charge, be totally fine, and murder almost the entire Ogre squad. The only thing in my army able to do a dent against them was a Stonehorn, and even then, there's no way he would ever be able to take down a Mountain King.

The points are whack for Lumineth Cowlads.

[Oldhat]

Well, it was inevitable:
Arguably unnecessary point hikes

Gnoblars really needed to cost that much more? Ridiculous. The Ironblaster makes far more sense. Glad to see Gluttons come down more, but -5? That isn't really making up for the +20 we just ate on the Gnoblars.

[spenson]

We already knew for weeks that this was coming with all the leaks but I'm still sad they didn't reduce the cost of the Ironguts, maneaters, etc.

I'll still take at least one unit of gnoblars because a screen with 25mm bases is very good (and the models are still pretty funny).

Edited January 13, 2023 by spenson

[Oldhat]

Well, adapting to changes got me this list:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Underguts
- Grand Strategy: Defend What's Ours
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Tyrant (150)*
- General
- Command Trait: Reluctant Rabble-rouser
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
- Big Name: Deathcheater
Butcher (140)**
- Tenderiser
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
Firebelly (130)**
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
4 x Leadbelchers (170)**
4 x Leadbelchers (170)**
6 x Ogor Gluttons (260)**
- Paired Ogor Clubs or Bluntblades
6 x Ogor Gluttons (260)**
- Paired Ogor Clubs or Bluntblades
20 x Gnoblars (120)**
Ironblaster (200)*
Ironblaster (200)*
Ironblaster (200)*
*Grand Battery
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
Drops: 5

Obviously going pure Gutbusters by choice, but I think for that style, this will work. I hope.

[spenson]

On 1/20/2023 at 1:27 AM, Oldhat said:

Well, adapting to changes got me this list:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Underguts
- Grand Strategy: Defend What's Ours
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Tyrant (150)*
- General
- Command Trait: Reluctant Rabble-rouser
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
- Big Name: Deathcheater
Butcher (140)**
- Tenderiser
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
Firebelly (130)**
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
4 x Leadbelchers (170)**
4 x Leadbelchers (170)**
6 x Ogor Gluttons (260)**
- Paired Ogor Clubs or Bluntblades
6 x Ogor Gluttons (260)**
- Paired Ogor Clubs or Bluntblades
20 x Gnoblars (120)**
Ironblaster (200)*
Ironblaster (200)*
Ironblaster (200)*
*Grand Battery
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
Drops: 5

Obviously going pure Gutbusters by choice, but I think for that style, this will work. I hope.

I have the exact same list except for a few minor details.

The batallions are a command entourage to give an arcane tome to the butcher (who's also the general with Master of Magic), then a gallatian sharpshooter with the leadbelchers and gnoblars and finally a GV with the gluttons.

Regarding the spells it may be up to personnal preference but I just really like Blubbergrub Stench with the 3 ironblasters. You're going to use the short range attacks from round 3, maybe round 2 sometimes and the ability to steal objectives (especially now that expert conqueror is gone) and the threat of a big amount of MW + rampages is not something most armies want to have to deal with.

For the grand strategy I'm more of a fan of Take What’s Theirs or even The Day is Ours! but I feel like it's up to personnal preference.

Edited January 22, 2023 by spenson

[Holy_Diver]

Hi gut people!

Is possible to manage a list with only two heroes in beastclaw raiders? Cause I wanna try this:

Frostlord on stonehorn
Butcher
4x Stonehorn raiders
20x gnoblars

Boulderhead and one drop deploy. I'm no so skilled in ogors, but I like them.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Holy_Diver

[itgnightraven]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:33 PM, Holy_Diver said:

Hi gut people!

Is possible to manage a list with only two heroes in beastclaw raiders? Cause I wanna try this:

Frostlord on stonehorn
Butcher
4x Stonehorn raiders
20x gnoblars

Boulderhead and one drop deploy. I'm no so skilled in ogors, but I like them.

it is very viable, that list but with small changes is extremely viable, like a krondspine instead of 1x raider and the gnoblars is really viable, or kragnos and mournfang instead of 2x raiders and the gnoblars

[Trout]

Tournaments have become popular near me so I'm transitioning away from narrstive and towards more competitive lists.

 

Do small armies of big models work? For example:

1 Kragnos

2 Frostlord on Stonehorn

1 Icebrow Hunter

3x2 Frost Sabres

Edited July 18, 2023 by Trout