AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[woolf]

9 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

In the article he shows a positive response from GW regarding the question. Would that matter?

Also, when I read that statement you quoted, it works in my head I dunno if it's just because I'm not too used to the wording of these rules but it looks legit. What is the part that wouldn't make him work in Kruleboyz?

not sure it works as the Orruk Warclan rule says that each unit keyed "Orruk Warclan" must be in Kruleboyz/IJ/Bonesplitters or big waagh. Now Kragnos doesn't have the OW keyword but Gordrak does... so unless they have clarified that elsewhere I would read it as he can only go into IJ or BW...

[broche]

Kragnos Warmaster ability explicitely specify he can be include, which supersede BT rule. Gorddrack no. An email from GW is not official FAQ. 

Also, at the top of the article:

 

EDIT: after talking to Declan and others at Woehammer, they disagree that he can be included and believe this still needs clarification with the FAQ team at GW due to the below images from the Battletome.

So I would not count on that (even if i would love it too )

[Vasshpit]

What are the rules for banners and musicians on the gutrippaz and boltboyz? Please and thanks. 

[NauticalSoup]

33 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

What are the rules for banners and musicians on the gutrippaz and boltboyz? Please and thanks. 

Gutrippaz get the standard 'one of each' for each block of 10. They add 1 bravery and 1 to charge rolls respectively, same as most. Boltboyz don't get 'em.

If you don't own the book there's a website you can look all this up but my spider-sense indicates the mod won't like it if I post it here.

[Ganigumo]

The warscrolls are still available for free in the official aos app, but the army rules require the code.

Also the boltboy "banner" model is the unit captain based on the instructions in the kit, but its not part of his equipment or anything, it just makes him stand out.

[kozokus]

Hello,

Juste a quick tournament recap from this week-end.

Was a 5 round tournament with no special rules involved. I played the following :

Allegiance: Kruleboyz

- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades

- Mortal Realm: Ghur

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS

Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)**

- General

- Command Trait: Egomaniak

- Artefact: Arcane Tome

- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un

- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)

- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble

Swampcalla Shaman GREEN (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex

Swampcalla Shaman BLUE (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

UNITS

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Hunters of the Heartlands

**Warlord

 

First, THANKS, MANY THANKS to TheOffBeatGamer, a Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrI8sk9veBLXlpfDXll5YPA

 

I literally stole his list, not changing a single word and followed his philosophy.

Speaking of

 

The list is metagamed, it is base on the following principles :

-Many top lists include some sort of heavy shooting, if you entirely negate it on the first turn (grinning blades) and mitigate it on second (artifact), you gain a significant advantage because most games have very intensive in the first turns.

-With so little investment in being anti shooting, you can go all in on anti-close combat, in the form of multiple layers of screens that counter any unfortunate doubleturns you might endure and protect your key pieces. Plus this gives you a large board cover.

-Most armies are here to do very high quality damage destined to kill dragons and gargants but cannot deal efficiently with 170 wounds in squads of 10 guys.

-Having 14 drops and not caring about the 1st turn allow you to read the enemy deployment perfectly and zone out his threats.

 

On a personnal note :

-I consider boltboys absolutely ****** in large numbers. The more you take the worse they become. They are far too fragile for their cost and I frown at any number over 9, 6 might be the best.

-On the contrary I really love gutripaz. The more you take the better they become. They endure, they deal damage, they deliver.

-Most people hate hobgrots, something I don't understand. They are the perfect screen, cheap, moderately dangerous in shooting and with a large range due to run and shoot. I played 50 and wished I had 20 more.

 

Here is how it went.

 

Game1 : Idoneth on the vice.

Smashking lothan thrallmaster 40 thralls 2 sharks and a turtle.

He did the right thing, he waited patiently until turn3 before running to me. But I did the opposite and rushed to him turn1 and occupying the center of the table early. The melee was confused and I was forced to see a king with +10 attacks cut through a lot of my army before dying vs the Killaboss which was nearly impossible to kill with +3 armor. However he made a pile-in mistake that allowed a troll to eat the turtle alive. With his main teeth removed, I could concentrate on the thralls and ensure that the center of the board was uncontested for turn 4-5.

Win. 14-6

 

Game 2

Kharadron on Tectonic interference.

He plays Barak Mhornar and doesn’t have the vortex. So the game is pretty unbalanced from the start. I simply walked on the objectives and spent the game making saves and removing models, t-posing on objectives. There is a limit to what the Kharadron can remove every turn and 170 wounds are too much to eat. Turn3 he felt that he needed to go all-in but a double turn allowed me to circle and destroy the fully loaded Ironclad. 1000 points dying in a single swing sealed the deal.

20-0

 

Game 3

Big Waagh on Struggle for power.

Snatchboss sneaky, 9 boltboyz, shaman, Maw krusha fully loaded, gobsprakk and some ironjawz.

Some lists seems hard to read until you eat them in the face and you realize they are ****** dangerous and have an answer for everything. Denying the first shoting phase and doubling turn2-3 allowed me to remove the dangerous shooting team with grenades and clever pile ins. However, he simply has a threat for each of my units and things like gobsprakk can be murderous under the influence of the Snatchboss plus all the toolbox he posess. The game was very close and when the dust settled he only had Gobsprak alive with 4 wounds and 8 grots plus 4 gutrippaz on my side.

Close win 13-7.

 

Game 4

Cities of Sigmar on veins of Ghur

I absolutly hate it when some clever guy show up with some ingenious build that I never saw before.

No living city here, the guy played Phoenicium! Yeah, with two fire phoenix, a luminarch and 4 dragons. Fire phoenix are uncommon but when you realize that the dragons can fight when dying and that "slay the warlord" and "bring it down" fail on a 4+, things can get messy. Plus the luminarch doesn't care if he has vision on my guys on turn 1 and reliably deal 5D3 mortal wounds every turn and gives a ward to the dragons. I honestly should have died to his list. Fighting on death wreak the kruelboys waagh plan and the amount of damage his list does to a MSU horde was unbereable. I ended up  having a lot of luck and winning all priority and him fizzling a lot with the dragons.

I was tabled but I won 39 to 38 points.

Very lucky win 11-9

 

Game 5

Ironjawz on tooth and nails. MK, 2warchanters, 21 pigs and 3 wolfs

My list was designed to beat such lists and it worked. He charged everything turn1, killed exactly 48 grots and some rippaz, then I retaliated, killing 12 pigs in the process. The maw krusha was stopped in its tracks against a troll with +3 to save rolls which retaliated with 13 wounds on the poor beast. By the end of turn 2 he had no model alive and I proceded to walk to every 4 objectives.

 

Afterthoughts :

Most Kruleboys tend to mass boltboyz and poison buffs from the shamans, I felt refreshing doing the exact opposite, playing horde, and stacking saves on heroes. (elixir-Defense-mystic shield-finest hour) The killaboss proved to be unkillable with such high saves and have enough damage to remove a lot of threats. Egomaniak was a key to keep inflicting millions of damage every turn and I didn't miss supa sneaky.

Surprisingly, weird lists where the most difficult to beat and "classics" where a cakewalk. During testings I played a couple of times against OBR, classic-Stormcast, Living city, Sylvaneth, and only lost once against the warsong revenant.

It is a blast to play and you feel very "safe" when you hide behind a wall of hogrots.

[novakai]

3 hours ago, kozokus said:

Hello,

Juste a quick tournament recap from this week-end.

Was a 5 round tournament with no special rules involved. I played the following :

Allegiance: Kruleboyz

- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades

- Mortal Realm: Ghur

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS

Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)**

- General

- Command Trait: Egomaniak

- Artefact: Arcane Tome

- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un

- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)

- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble

Swampcalla Shaman GREEN (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex

Swampcalla Shaman BLUE (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

UNITS

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Hunters of the Heartlands

**Warlord

 

First, THANKS, MANY THANKS to TheOffBeatGamer, a Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrI8sk9veBLXlpfDXll5YPA

 

I literally stole his list, not changing a single word and followed his philosophy.

Speaking of

 

The list is metagamed, it is base on the following principles :

-Many top lists include some sort of heavy shooting, if you entirely negate it on the first turn (grinning blades) and mitigate it on second (artifact), you gain a significant advantage because most games have very intensive in the first turns.

-With so little investment in being anti shooting, you can go all in on anti-close combat, in the form of multiple layers of screens that counter any unfortunate doubleturns you might endure and protect your key pieces. Plus this gives you a large board cover.

-Most armies are here to do very high quality damage destined to kill dragons and gargants but cannot deal efficiently with 170 wounds in squads of 10 guys.

-Having 14 drops and not caring about the 1st turn allow you to read the enemy deployment perfectly and zone out his threats.

 

On a personnal note :

-I consider boltboys absolutely ****** in large numbers. The more you take the worse they become. They are far too fragile for their cost and I frown at any number over 9, 6 might be the best.

-On the contrary I really love gutripaz. The more you take the better they become. They endure, they deal damage, they deliver.

-Most people hate hobgrots, something I don't understand. They are the perfect screen, cheap, moderately dangerous in shooting and with a large range due to run and shoot. I played 50 and wished I had 20 more.

 

Here is how it went.

 

Game1 : Idoneth on the vice.

Smashking lothan thrallmaster 40 thralls 2 sharks and a turtle.

He did the right thing, he waited patiently until turn3 before running to me. But I did the opposite and rushed to him turn1 and occupying the center of the table early. The melee was confused and I was forced to see a king with +10 attacks cut through a lot of my army before dying vs the Killaboss which was nearly impossible to kill with +3 armor. However he made a pile-in mistake that allowed a troll to eat the turtle alive. With his main teeth removed, I could concentrate on the thralls and ensure that the center of the board was uncontested for turn 4-5.

Win. 14-6

 

Game 2

Kharadron on Tectonic interference.

He plays Barak Mhornar and doesn’t have the vortex. So the game is pretty unbalanced from the start. I simply walked on the objectives and spent the game making saves and removing models, t-posing on objectives. There is a limit to what the Kharadron can remove every turn and 170 wounds are too much to eat. Turn3 he felt that he needed to go all-in but a double turn allowed me to circle and destroy the fully loaded Ironclad. 1000 points dying in a single swing sealed the deal.

20-0

 

Game 3

Big Waagh on Struggle for power.

Snatchboss sneaky, 9 boltboyz, shaman, Maw krusha fully loaded, gobsprakk and some ironjawz.

Some lists seems hard to read until you eat them in the face and you realize they are ****** dangerous and have an answer for everything. Denying the first shoting phase and doubling turn2-3 allowed me to remove the dangerous shooting team with grenades and clever pile ins. However, he simply has a threat for each of my units and things like gobsprakk can be murderous under the influence of the Snatchboss plus all the toolbox he posess. The game was very close and when the dust settled he only had Gobsprak alive with 4 wounds and 8 grots plus 4 gutrippaz on my side.

Close win 13-7.

 

Game 4

Cities of Sigmar on veins of Ghur

I absolutly hate it when some clever guy show up with some ingenious build that I never saw before.

No living city here, the guy played Phoenicium! Yeah, with two fire phoenix, a luminarch and 4 dragons. Fire phoenix are uncommon but when you realize that the dragons can fight when dying and that "slay the warlord" and "bring it down" fail on a 4+, things can get messy. Plus the luminarch doesn't care if he has vision on my guys on turn 1 and reliably deal 5D3 mortal wounds every turn and gives a ward to the dragons. I honestly should have died to his list. Fighting on death wreak the kruelboys waagh plan and the amount of damage his list does to a MSU horde was unbereable. I ended up  having a lot of luck and winning all priority and him fizzling a lot with the dragons.

I was tabled but I won 39 to 38 points.

Very lucky win 11-9

 

Game 5

Ironjawz on tooth and nails. MK, 2warchanters, 21 pigs and 3 wolfs

My list was designed to beat such lists and it worked. He charged everything turn1, killed exactly 48 grots and some rippaz, then I retaliated, killing 12 pigs in the process. The maw krusha was stopped in its tracks against a troll with +3 to save rolls which retaliated with 13 wounds on the poor beast. By the end of turn 2 he had no model alive and I proceded to walk to every 4 objectives.

 

Afterthoughts :

Most Kruleboys tend to mass boltboyz and poison buffs from the shamans, I felt refreshing doing the exact opposite, playing horde, and stacking saves on heroes. (elixir-Defense-mystic shield-finest hour) The killaboss proved to be unkillable with such high saves and have enough damage to remove a lot of threats. Egomaniak was a key to keep inflicting millions of damage every turn and I didn't miss supa sneaky.

Surprisingly, weird lists where the most difficult to beat and "classics" where a cakewalk. During testings I played a couple of times against OBR, classic-Stormcast, Living city, Sylvaneth, and only lost once against the warsong revenant.

It is a blast to play and you feel very "safe" when you hide behind a wall of hogrots.

Congratz on your wins

[zombiepiratexxx]

Interesting to read your take on it! Hopefully in the GHB we'll get some points drops on Gutrippas which will help expand lists. I do like how units of 20 look but as you're stuck with Battleline units you pretty much have to run MSU to get anything other than Big Yellerz and I do want to do more Grinnin' Blades. 

[ledha]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:58 PM, kozokus said:

Hello,

Juste a quick tournament recap from this week-end.

Was a 5 round tournament with no special rules involved. I played the following :

Allegiance: Kruleboyz

- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades

- Mortal Realm: Ghur

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS

Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)**

- General

- Command Trait: Egomaniak

- Artefact: Arcane Tome

- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un

- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)

Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)

- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble

Swampcalla Shaman GREEN (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex

Swampcalla Shaman BLUE (105)**

Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot

- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

UNITS

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Gutrippaz (180)*

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)**

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Hunters of the Heartlands

**Warlord

 

First, THANKS, MANY THANKS to TheOffBeatGamer, a Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrI8sk9veBLXlpfDXll5YPA

 

I literally stole his list, not changing a single word and followed his philosophy.

Speaking of

 

The list is metagamed, it is base on the following principles :

-Many top lists include some sort of heavy shooting, if you entirely negate it on the first turn (grinning blades) and mitigate it on second (artifact), you gain a significant advantage because most games have very intensive in the first turns.

-With so little investment in being anti shooting, you can go all in on anti-close combat, in the form of multiple layers of screens that counter any unfortunate doubleturns you might endure and protect your key pieces. Plus this gives you a large board cover.

-Most armies are here to do very high quality damage destined to kill dragons and gargants but cannot deal efficiently with 170 wounds in squads of 10 guys.

-Having 14 drops and not caring about the 1st turn allow you to read the enemy deployment perfectly and zone out his threats.

 

On a personnal note :

-I consider boltboys absolutely ****** in large numbers. The more you take the worse they become. They are far too fragile for their cost and I frown at any number over 9, 6 might be the best.

-On the contrary I really love gutripaz. The more you take the better they become. They endure, they deal damage, they deliver.

-Most people hate hobgrots, something I don't understand. They are the perfect screen, cheap, moderately dangerous in shooting and with a large range due to run and shoot. I played 50 and wished I had 20 more.

 

Here is how it went.

 

Game1 : Idoneth on the vice.

Smashking lothan thrallmaster 40 thralls 2 sharks and a turtle.

He did the right thing, he waited patiently until turn3 before running to me. But I did the opposite and rushed to him turn1 and occupying the center of the table early. The melee was confused and I was forced to see a king with +10 attacks cut through a lot of my army before dying vs the Killaboss which was nearly impossible to kill with +3 armor. However he made a pile-in mistake that allowed a troll to eat the turtle alive. With his main teeth removed, I could concentrate on the thralls and ensure that the center of the board was uncontested for turn 4-5.

Win. 14-6

 

Game 2

Kharadron on Tectonic interference.

He plays Barak Mhornar and doesn’t have the vortex. So the game is pretty unbalanced from the start. I simply walked on the objectives and spent the game making saves and removing models, t-posing on objectives. There is a limit to what the Kharadron can remove every turn and 170 wounds are too much to eat. Turn3 he felt that he needed to go all-in but a double turn allowed me to circle and destroy the fully loaded Ironclad. 1000 points dying in a single swing sealed the deal.

20-0

 

Game 3

Big Waagh on Struggle for power.

Snatchboss sneaky, 9 boltboyz, shaman, Maw krusha fully loaded, gobsprakk and some ironjawz.

Some lists seems hard to read until you eat them in the face and you realize they are ****** dangerous and have an answer for everything. Denying the first shoting phase and doubling turn2-3 allowed me to remove the dangerous shooting team with grenades and clever pile ins. However, he simply has a threat for each of my units and things like gobsprakk can be murderous under the influence of the Snatchboss plus all the toolbox he posess. The game was very close and when the dust settled he only had Gobsprak alive with 4 wounds and 8 grots plus 4 gutrippaz on my side.

Close win 13-7.

 

Game 4

Cities of Sigmar on veins of Ghur

I absolutly hate it when some clever guy show up with some ingenious build that I never saw before.

No living city here, the guy played Phoenicium! Yeah, with two fire phoenix, a luminarch and 4 dragons. Fire phoenix are uncommon but when you realize that the dragons can fight when dying and that "slay the warlord" and "bring it down" fail on a 4+, things can get messy. Plus the luminarch doesn't care if he has vision on my guys on turn 1 and reliably deal 5D3 mortal wounds every turn and gives a ward to the dragons. I honestly should have died to his list. Fighting on death wreak the kruelboys waagh plan and the amount of damage his list does to a MSU horde was unbereable. I ended up  having a lot of luck and winning all priority and him fizzling a lot with the dragons.

I was tabled but I won 39 to 38 points.

Very lucky win 11-9

 

Game 5

Ironjawz on tooth and nails. MK, 2warchanters, 21 pigs and 3 wolfs

My list was designed to beat such lists and it worked. He charged everything turn1, killed exactly 48 grots and some rippaz, then I retaliated, killing 12 pigs in the process. The maw krusha was stopped in its tracks against a troll with +3 to save rolls which retaliated with 13 wounds on the poor beast. By the end of turn 2 he had no model alive and I proceded to walk to every 4 objectives.

 

Afterthoughts :

Most Kruleboys tend to mass boltboyz and poison buffs from the shamans, I felt refreshing doing the exact opposite, playing horde, and stacking saves on heroes. (elixir-Defense-mystic shield-finest hour) The killaboss proved to be unkillable with such high saves and have enough damage to remove a lot of threats. Egomaniak was a key to keep inflicting millions of damage every turn and I didn't miss supa sneaky.

Surprisingly, weird lists where the most difficult to beat and "classics" where a cakewalk. During testings I played a couple of times against OBR, classic-Stormcast, Living city, Sylvaneth, and only lost once against the warsong revenant.

It is a blast to play and you feel very "safe" when you hide behind a wall of hogrots.

Congratulations on your wins ! Nothing is better than seing an original list beating more metas one

Edited May 9, 2022 by ledha

[Scurvydog]

After having done a series of tournaments with very good results with more meta armies, it has kind of gotten stale so wanted to restart my Kruleboyz project and try to see how well I can do with an underdog faction.

Having a bit of everything right now, this is a list that I think is sort of all around ok:

 

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- General
- Command Trait: Egomaniak
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
- Lore of the Swamp: Sneaky Miasma
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)
Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

Battleline
10 x Gutrippaz (180)**
10 x Gutrippaz (180)**
10 x Gutrippaz (180)**
9 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (360)*
- Reinforced x 2

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
Drops: 11
 

I wont be able to dictate 1st turn order reliably anyway with Kruleboyz, so might as well get some value instead. With the low bravery all around, I sort of wanted a killboss around, which is also one of the few faster units. 5 pts prevents me from trading the boss and killbow with a vulcha boss and hobgrot unit. 

The killbow is not popular, but people are scared of it anyway, so it is sort of a distrction piece and with grinning blades it can just be easily removed turn 1. In the current meta of stormcast bow lists, snakes spam and so on, I think grinning blades adds a lot of value, even though big yellers is nice for the +3" range and would allow some gutrippaz to reinforce, I think it brings more value if I face any heavy shooting army, to be relatively safe round 1. Of course both faction and the eye pebble will be utterly useless against some factions, like ironjawz or fyreslayers, but I think they help out so much against our otherwise worst matchups.

Any thoughts and ideas on the list? Will join a 3 match 1 day event in June, so I got some time to make adjustments. Getting a big bird in there somehow would be fun, but not sure any of them brings enough value for the points.

[Jabbuk]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:58 PM, kozokus said:

Game 3

Big Waagh on Struggle for power.

Snatchboss sneaky, 9 boltboyz, shaman, Maw krusha fully loaded, gobsprakk and some ironjawz.

Hey man, thanks for the batreps, really good info. Could you tell me a bit more about this list? I play BW as well and was wondering how he could have 9 Boltboyz since they're not Battleline. Were they MSU? Would be curious to know what his list was. I would like to try a similar list.

[Arzalyn]

So another Kruleboyz player got a 5-0 in a tournament this weekend!

I got the list and the info from the Kruleboy whataspp group. He faced Morathi + bowsnakes, Nurgle, Ironjawz, Living cities drakes and full dragon stormcast. I don't have the list with all the details, but the units were as follow:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Grinnin' Blades
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)

Battleline
10 x Gutrippaz (180)
10 x Gutrippaz (180)
10 x Gutrippaz (180)

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Shootas (140)
- Allies

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 162
Drops: 12
 

Its interesting that we are starting to see more Grinnin' Blades lists with a focus on bodies and with very little boltboyz!

[vHeatv]

I think the best of Kruleboyz is yet to come. The 9 man Boltboyz feels so good, but hurts so bad.

 

 

 

I've been playing with MSU Boltboyz options... Without a shaman, and the math-hammer is surprising. 4 units of 3 Boltboyz (remembering each unit gets +1 attack from the leader) @480 points almost always has better damage output than 1 unit of 9 with a shaman for poison. (@465pts)

See below

From their... The benefits of a 9 man squad, most significantly Unleash hell, vs the benefits of flexibility and survivability of 4 units of 3 become really really interesting!

 

Currently running 6 units of 3 Boltboyz with Kragnos, Snatchaboss and 3 units of hobgrots.  It's early days but I quite like it. I don't think it Kragnos/Boltboyz would be possible unless it's an MSU build. Anyone else explored this?

 

 

 

[NauticalSoup]

Nvm I can't read

Edited May 16, 2022 by NauticalSoup

[vHeatv]

1 minute ago, NauticalSoup said:

Isn't your graph missing a dimension, specifically, target armour? There should be a performance curve for un-buffed guys that causes their efficiency to improve the worst the target's armour save.

Unless this is before armour in which case you're skipping arguably the most relevant difference between the two. Like into a 6+ save the MSU guys are probably strictly better from the extra champion attacks, but into a 2+ save they're probably doing around half the damage.

The horizontal axis is armor save

[NauticalSoup]

Just now, vHeatv said:

The horizontal axis is armor save

I saw lol

[vHeatv]

4 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

I saw lol

Numbers are surprising hey?

[NauticalSoup]

I haven't had time to play my KB since I have two other Warclans armies but honestly? It doesn't surprise me as much anymore every time somebody drops some math showing a support piece isn't worth the opportunity cost of just bringing more combat stuff. I think people are very much still in the Sigmar 2.0 mindset where the winning strategy was to get a big chonkin blob hammer unit and then buff it to the moon so it can atomize anything it squints at.

Characters are just really expensive now and without CAs don't tend to do as much, while coherency and the nuking of regiment discounts makes those big blobs less appetizing. 3 small units of boltboyz have more shots and are more robust than one big unit of 9, so the only way the 9 is getting there is with buffs - and there's basically only one buff worth caring about. The mathhammer just shows for the big unit to be worth it that one buff isn't enough, you also need to be taking full advantage of AOA or unleash or something (which tbf is standard but still it's all marginal increases).

[Ganigumo]

The real thing driving big units over small ones isn't aos 2 habits, its battle regiment. There are only 5 troop slots in a battle regiment, so if you're trying to do something like MSU boltboyz you end up losing priority.

[Arzalyn]

39 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The real thing driving big units over small ones isn't aos 2 habits, its battle regiment. There are only 5 troop slots in a battle regiment, so if you're trying to do something like MSU boltboyz you end up losing priority.

Yeah, that was the real reason for me too. I wondering now how much we are actually gaining by trying to reduce our drops, as we rarely get the 1 drop unless you go with just one sludgeraker and multiple shamans/foot-killaboss/murknob. As soon as you add a Gnashtooth/Breakaboss/Vulture or another sludgeraker you are going with 2 or more drops. Do anyone have any data about the general number of drops tournament lists have (tournament as I don't expect to be any data outside of the competitive scene for this)?

[NauticalSoup]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

The real thing driving big units over small ones isn't aos 2 habits, its battle regiment. There are only 5 troop slots in a battle regiment, so if you're trying to do something like MSU boltboyz you end up losing priority.

Good point! I haven't tried to build a competitive KB unit after seeing how badly they seem to perform so it never even occured. There sure are a lot of factors driving the army into a monolist

[Abstract_duck]

15 hours ago, vHeatv said:

I've been playing with MSU Boltboyz options... Without a shaman, and the math-hammer is surprising. 4 units of 3 Boltboyz (remembering each unit gets +1 attack from the leader) @480 points almost always has better damage output than 1 unit of 9 with a shaman for poison. (@465pts

 

Very interesting, Especially if you consider that it's easier to not overkill units by too big of a margin - since you can activate them one by one instead of all models at the same time. 

[vHeatv]

9 minutes ago, Abstract_duck said:

Very interesting, Especially if you consider that it's easier to not overkill units by too big of a margin - since you can activate them one by one instead of all models at the same time. 

I'm only 2 games into real world experience with a Kragnos/Boltboyz MSU list and one of the things I find really interesting was the flexibility with movement. You aren't committed to all 9 in a unit being long range. You can move some up (to get closer/form a new screen line), keep some back etc etc. It was very cool. Limited castling is very liberating

 

I beat a Stormcast dragons list last night, and it was embarrassingly easy (no longstrikes tbf)

Edited May 17, 2022 by vHeatv

[NauticalSoup]

It may be your opponent didn't know what he was doing or you got lucky. SDG are definitely a very strong unit for a whole host of reasons one of them being their almost unlimited engage range which can make it a real hassle to attack them on favourable terms.

[Rachmani]

I had a game with a list not unlike the grinning' blades list a few posts above vs. MSU Nighthaunt and absolutely slaughtered them. As it stands a high wound count list vs. a low wound count list works pretty well, when the latter is very susceptible to high volume attacks and mortal wounds. 

I'm kinda getting the vibe that the more 3.0 books hit the shelves, the better Kruleboys become.