Kragnos discussion

[C0deb1ue]

2 hours ago, Pitloze said:

I bought him. Skipped his book. Banking on his stonks going up in Kruel Boyz release. If not then he's some glue (hehehe) I can use to build new destro armies with without buying who 2k armies at once.

Going to hold off a bit, still annoyed that the entire design for the “ god”of destruction was an over complicated calculation for impact wounds. It could hardly be less inspired.

[Gothmaug]

1 hour ago, C0deb1ue said:

Going to hold off a bit, still annoyed that the entire design for the “ god”of destruction was an over complicated calculation for impact wounds. It could hardly be less inspired.

Which once again brings us to the problem of the grand alliances. “Destruction” just makes for a boring theme. Scratch destruction and replace it with something else. Perhaps Life, like a primal force of nature that can’t be tamed. Now you have the order/chaos opposites and the death/life opposing forces. Way better than destruction, where a bunch of entire races just wander around and kill stuff with no rhyme, reason or goals. 
 

not even sure why we need grand alliances anyhow, there’s almost no support for soup armies where you mix a bunch of factions inside a grand alliance

Edited May 29, 2021 by Gothmaug

[C0deb1ue]

5 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

Which once again brings us to the problem of the grand alliances. “Destruction” just makes for a boring theme. Scratch destruction and replace it with something else. Perhaps Life, like a primal force of nature that can’t be tamed. Now you have the order/chaos opposites and the death/life opposing forces. Way better than destruction, where a bunch of entire races just wander around and kill stuff with no rhyme, reason or goals. 
 

not even sure why we need grand alliances anyhow, there’s almost no support for soup armies where you mix a bunch of factions inside a grand alliance

I feel its a laziness in design rather than anything else.... why doesn't he have any way to get round screens? why doesn't he have anything that helps his army? it's an objective game so how does he engage with that? 

just trying to kill stuff, which is all he seems to do is a fast way to lose...

 

[Televiper11]

I do wonder if 3.0 rule changes will give Kragnos some side-buffs like an objective holding bonus for all Behemoths?

[Harioch]

18 hours ago, C0deb1ue said:

Going to hold off a bit, still annoyed that the entire design for the “ god”of destruction was an over complicated calculation for impact wounds. It could hardly be less inspired.

His "God of Earthquake" theme and rule has so much potential to be honest. Alas we're focusing on his charge rule since it's his major damage output..

I would have loved that he could create "real" earthquake instead like destroying terrain, halving movement of ennemy units, creating unpracticable gap for infantry and cavalry without Fly keyword. That table shapping would have been really good in Destruction and giving them a new mind game far from Magic and Command abilties that other allegiance got. Sons of Behemath already got some with the football terrain and it is great and fun (and sometimes effective).

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harioch

[C0deb1ue]

2 hours ago, Harioch said:

His "God of Earthquake" theme and rule has so much potential to be honest. Alas we're focusing on his charge rule since it's his major damage output..

I would have loved that he could create "real" earthquake instead like destroying terrain, halving movement of ennemy units, creating unpracticable gap for infantry and cavalry without Fly keyword. That table shapping would have been really good in Destruction and giving them a new mind game far from Magic and Command abilties that other allegiance got. Sons of Behemath already got some with the football terrain and it is great and fun (and sometimes effective).

There was a huge amount they could have done to make this god feel godly but all they managed was that he can do a lot of damage. 

 

bestial magic, command abilities, a debuff aura....an actual buff aura that isn’t some trash +1 bravery aura. I look at the other god characters and wonder why the design ethos changed for Kragnos. 

[DestructionFranz]

44 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

There was a huge amount they could have done to make this god feel godly but all they managed was that he can do a lot of damage. 

 

bestial magic, command abilities, a debuff aura....an actual buff aura that isn’t some trash +1 bravery aura. I look at the other god characters and wonder why the design ethos changed for Kragnos. 

A general without command ability .

This is enough to describe how much brain and heart they used to design his rules.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:27 PM, Televiper11 said:

I do wonder if 3.0 rule changes will give Kragnos some side-buffs like an objective holding bonus for all Behemoths?

Yeah, that would help him out, but also erase the advantages of my Stonehorn and SoBs army.  Made up my mind I'll just not get Kragnos and use my prepayment as store credit for other things; 760 points will just not be viable.  Guess I should hold off of other things though as these new rules rumors make me too uncertain of how I will want my armies to reshape.

 

[PlasticCraic]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:27 PM, PainfullyMediocre said:

I had a read of Platic Craic's blog on Kragnos, would he even be able to benefit from GA:Destruction's Big Waagh ability?

Think you're confusing two things there bud.

GA: Destruction and Big Waaagh are separate allegiances.  

He can benefit from the former (for the reasons discussed in the article).  He can go into the latter army (due to his Warscroll ability), but not benefit from anything that allegiance provides (since it requires the Orruk keyword, and Kragnos doesn't get keywords).

[Lord Krungharr]

Welp, that article convinced me to paint up my Mournfangs and run the Eurlbad.  Thanks, PlasticCraic!  Gonna have to see what my FLGS even has in stock anymore, they haven't been open for over a year (cuz virus), and still don't want to open for gamers who can prove they're vaccinated.  But at least they'll have at least one Kragnos model in stock, as I'm not taking him.

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Welp, that article convinced me to paint up my Mournfangs and run the Eurlbad.  Thanks, PlasticCraic!  Gonna have to see what my FLGS even has in stock anymore, they haven't been open for over a year (cuz virus), and still don't want to open for gamers who can prove they're vaccinated.  But at least they'll have at least one Kragnos model in stock, as I'm not taking him.

Fair enough mate, I've just submitted a tournament list myself and I went back to Eurlbad (classic Boulderhead though, I won't have the Bloodgullets fully painted). 

What list are you planning on running - are you going heavy on the Mournfang?

My biggest hope for Kragnos at this stage is that he gets rolled into the Kroolboyz book, and therefore gets some proper allegiance abilities.

[Nezzhil]

6 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Fair enough mate, I've just submitted a tournament list myself and I went back to Eurlbad (classic Boulderhead though, I won't have the Bloodgullets fully painted). 

What list are you planning on running - are you going heavy on the Mournfang?

My biggest hope for Kragnos at this stage is that he gets rolled into the Kroolboyz book, and therefore gets some proper allegiance abilities.

My list is a Frostlord, Kragnos, Slaughtermaster, 12 Gluttons, 2x 2 Mournfang.

The problem with the list is the low number of units, you are swapping 2 Stonehorns+battalion for Kragnos.

[PlasticCraic]

20 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

My list is a Frostlord, Kragnos, Slaughtermaster, 12 Gluttons, 2x 2 Mournfang.

The problem with the list is the low number of units, you are swapping 2 Stonehorns+battalion for Kragnos.

Yeah it really rips the heart out of your army hey.  That's what I found when I was putting lists together.

I do like what you've done though - is that in Bloodgullets?

[Nezzhil]

1 minute ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah it really rips the heart out of your army hey.  That's what I found when I was putting lists together.

I do like what you've done though - is that in Bloodgullets?

Yep, this is in Bloodgullets. I think it is the only subfaction with some tools to improve Kragnos.

[Backbreaker]

I decided to not take him... for now. The new box is awesome and I will have loads of stuff to try, paint, build, ...

 

Right now he is so bad and I faced Morathi for the first time yesterday , and he would have been meaningless in a duel with her.

 

So waiting for the new behemoth rules. I'm already playing my dreadmaw when I want a "liquid" list ^^

Edited May 31, 2021 by Backbreaker

[Scurvydog]

I can't see how Kragnos fits into a Sons of Behemat army in any way. The only way to run that would be 1 mega gargant, 3 mancrushers, then 1 lonely mancrusher and kragnos. He needs to put in a LOT of work to replace an effective 40 model count for objectives and 60 wounds of gargants with his measly 18 wounds. He basically cuts down the armies board presence and capture potential by half and wound count by a third, while only providing around 50% more dmg than a single gatebreaker...

He will not a LOT of help. I do not think there is any fixing him as is, he is at his core a Gotrek type character, instead of the other big gods who define their books, heck Archaons has a sub faction based entirely on his presence (Like it should be!). I really thought the Broken Realms Kragnos book would actually get the "Kragnos Whaagh" allegiance... but nothing at all for destruction than him. Not only wasted potential and boring rules, but also dramatically overcosted to add insult to injury. If he wa around 600 pts I might have considered him, but now it is just more money in the bank for the new AoS 3.0 stuff or cookies.

[Zappgrot]

59 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

I can't see how Kragnos fits into a Sons of Behemat army in any way. The only way to run that would be 1 mega gargant, 3 mancrushers, then 1 lonely mancrusher and kragnos. He needs to put in a LOT of work to replace an effective 40 model count for objectives and 60 wounds of gargants with his measly 18 wounds. He basically cuts down the armies board presence and capture potential by half and wound count by a third, while only providing around 50% more dmg than a single gatebreaker...

He will not a LOT of help. I do not think there is any fixing him as is, he is at his core a Gotrek type character, instead of the other big gods who define their books, heck Archaons has a sub faction based entirely on his presence (Like it should be!). I really thought the Broken Realms Kragnos book would actually get the "Kragnos Whaagh" allegiance... but nothing at all for destruction than him. Not only wasted potential and boring rules, but also dramatically overcosted to add insult to injury. If he wa around 600 pts I might have considered him, but now it is just more money in the bank for the new AoS 3.0 stuff or cookies.

Playing him in SOB seems like a really really bad idea, SOB have problems on the dammage and woundcount front. But are great at capturing objectives whit thier rules. He lacks thier objective rules and has even less wounds (specialy in a mortal wounds metta) and his dammage output might be better but it's still not great. So he does not compensate the dammage weakness while introducing even more. Terrible plan from a tactical perspective. Altough if the plan is hey look big dudes i gues it's cool. 

[Lord Krungharr]

I think the giant Khorne Dragon is actually more appealing than Kragnos, aside from costing an extra US$440, and being FW resin, and having a base the size of a standard sheet of paper.

[PainfullyMediocre]

On 5/31/2021 at 12:49 AM, PlasticCraic said:

Think you're confusing two things there bud.

GA: Destruction and Big Waaagh are separate allegiances.  

He can benefit from the former (for the reasons discussed in the article).  He can go into the latter army (due to his Warscroll ability), but not benefit from anything that allegiance provides (since it requires the Orruk keyword, and Kragnos doesn't get keywords).

Ah that was my mistake, I was on about Mighty Destroyers in GA: Destruction.

[Cchalmers]

I play in London, so I'm lucky in that the local meta is really whatever you want to face, but I'm looking forward to using some models I rarely do in conjunction with him in my ogre army.

Loved the article @PlasticCraic, so stole those ideas to run in bloodgullet.

Currently leaning towards this:

Kragnos [an amount I'd rather forget]

Butcher [140pts] 

2. Blood Feast, 5. Grease-smeared Tusks, 6. Greasy Deluge

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]

 0. Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!, 0. Splatter-cleaver, 1. Black Clatterhorn, General

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts]

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts] 

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts]

Battalion: Skal 

2 Frost Sabres [40pts]

2 Frost Sabres [40pts]

Icebrow Hunter [120pts]

Allegiance

Ogor Mawtribes

Selections: Bloodgullet Mawtribe

[PlasticCraic]

15 hours ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Ah that was my mistake, I was on about Mighty Destroyers in GA: Destruction.

Ah yeah.  Well in that case, yes he can definitely use it - he's going into a GA: Destruction army just on the back of having the Destruction keyword, so he's in that army like any other unit and can use the Battle Trait.  

The boxed-off text on his warscroll only kicks in if you're putting him into an army where he doesn't have the right keyword.  You don't need to use that function to get him into a Destruction army, so the subsequent part about not getting allegiance abilities never kicks in 👍

Edited June 1, 2021 by PlasticCraic

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Cchalmers said:

I play in London, so I'm lucky in that the local meta is really whatever you want to face, but I'm looking forward to using some models I rarely do in conjunction with him in my ogre army.

Loved the article @PlasticCraic, so stole those ideas to run in bloodgullet.

Glad you liked it mate!  Check out @Nezzhil's Bloodgullets list up above too, it's a good un.

Edited June 1, 2021 by PlasticCraic

[Iamanbo]

10 hours ago, Cchalmers said:

I play in London, so I'm lucky in that the local meta is really whatever you want to face, but I'm looking forward to using some models I rarely do in conjunction with him in my ogre army.

Loved the article @PlasticCraic, so stole those ideas to run in bloodgullet.

Currently leaning towards this:

Kragnos [an amount I'd rather forget]

Butcher [140pts] 

2. Blood Feast, 5. Grease-smeared Tusks, 6. Greasy Deluge

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]

 0. Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!, 0. Splatter-cleaver, 1. Black Clatterhorn, General

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts]

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts] 

3 Ogor Gluttons [120pts]

Battalion: Skal 

2 Frost Sabres [40pts]

2 Frost Sabres [40pts]

Icebrow Hunter [120pts]

Allegiance

Ogor Mawtribes

Selections: Bloodgullet Mawtribe

I like the list, this weekend I wanted to test Kragnos and I thought it would be a good option to protect him with Underguts

 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Underguts
Tyrant (160)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Ironblaster (120)
Ironblaster (120)
Ironblaster (120)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

0 synergy and the gluttons would also be alone ...
I do not include any battalion preparing for 3.0

In the future I will test your list

 

[Cchalmers]

5 minutes ago, Iamanbo said:

I like the list, this weekend I wanted to test Kragnos and I thought it would be a good option to protect him with Underguts

 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Underguts
Tyrant (160)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Ironblaster (120)
Ironblaster (120)
Ironblaster (120)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

0 synergy and the gluttons would also be alone ...
I do not include any battalion preparing for 3.0

In the future I will test your list

 

It's heartbreaking to use that list without a battalion to get gruesome trophy rack 🥺

I'm looking forward to having a play with it once I've stopped doing tourney prep

[Cchalmers]

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Glad you liked it mate!  Check out @Nezzhil's Bloodgullets list up above too, it's a good un.

Caught it, very interesting. 

Looking forward to sucking more but very occasionally blowing something up on the charge 🤷‍♂️