Broken Realms: Teclis - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[Sception]

Yesterday I was big... well, I wasn't big mad, but I was big disappointed.  Today, I'm completely over it.  Regardless of how it happened, nagash did need to be taken off the stage for the designers to tell the story they want to tell with 3e, and some of that story I'm actually excited to read.  In particular, I'm excited for the mortarchs to get some more room for individual schemes & characterization that they just didn't have space for while under nagash's thumb.  Even personal fave Arkhan being temporarily out of the picture is a good thing, since someone at GW is a big Arkhan fan and as a result he tends to overshadow the rest of his peers.  Heck,he even overshadows Nagash half the time.

Maybe now we can finally, *finally* let Neferata be cool?  For once?  Like, I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I am crossing my fingers really hard. 

Maybe we can see more of what Olynder is about?  I already have a clear view of what the Vampires & Ossiarchs will be up to, but I have no idea what the nighthaunts will do now, and that's kind of exciting.

And the new Gravelords range still looks so good, just so, so good you guys.  I said on the death forum a bit ago that I didn't think anything could reduce my enthusiasm for that faction, and while gw did have to go and put me to the test, and it did feel shakey for a minute there, one night later and I'm as hype for the new battle tome, blood knights, and that fantastic new Wight King as ever.

I've also been satisfied that the narrative isn't ~as~ one sided as the initial summaries made it sound.  Still way more one sided than it should be. Still probably not getting the book myself, since it seems to mostly just be my guys failing all over themselves will little to no redeeming moments that would make me feel cool.  But ya know, sometimes gw writing just isn't the best, and you gotta roll your eyes and move on.  They're a minis company first, they only make games as an afterthought to sell the minis, and they only make fiction as an afterthought of an afterthought to sell the games. Bad fluff is kind of the expected default, good fluff, when it happens, is a surprise to be celebrated.

I've played Black Legion for far too long to not have learned that lesson already.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Sception

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

As a small aside, I like the difference in the artefact lists of the Lumineth Realm Lords and Settler's Gain, the Hyshian 1 in 4 Lumineth CoS city.

Where the Lumineth get the Silver Wand and Blade of Leaping Gold, the humans of Settler's Gain need to make do with the Silver-Plated Wand and Blade of Leaping Bronze. I think this is a cute way to show the relationship between the Lumineth and humans in that city.

The command trait Raging Outburst from Settler's Gain is pretty great, too, where your general gets +1 to hit and wound (and -1 to saves) because he flies into a rage from the constant supervision of the Lumineth.

One of the funniest command traits since a while. I also laughed, when I saw the wand and blade. Those are well done, you can see someone had fun with those. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

One of the funniest command traits since a while. I also laughed, when I saw the wand and blade. Those are well done, you can see someone had fun with those. 

Here's another bit of fluff I appreciate:

The Windmage's weapon is called an "Aspiragillum". That's a play on the words "aspergillum", which is a holy water sprinkler and the Latin "spirare" (to breathe), and "aspirare" (to strive). There's also a connection to asperitas clouds, since the Windmage rides on a cloud. I just wanted to mention this somewhere, because it's a nice pun that nobody would notice otherwise.

Obscure Latin triple puns? In my battletome? It's more likely than you'd think.

[Storm]

Ah Death; keeping up with the time honoured tradition of the Vampire Counts of yore losing every major battle they participate in.

Interested see what the Vampires can do now that they don't have Nagash looking over their shoulders all the time.

[shinros]

17 minutes ago, Storm said:

Ah Death; keeping up with the time honoured tradition of the Vampire Counts of yore losing every major battle they participate in.

Interested see what the Vampires can do now that they don't have Nagash looking over their shoulders all the time.

As an old WHFB vampire counts player this post wounds me in ways beyond description. 🤣

[pnkdth]

1 hour ago, Storm said:

Ah Death; keeping up with the time honoured tradition of the Vampire Counts of yore losing every major battle they participate in.

Interested see what the Vampires can do now that they don't have Nagash looking over their shoulders all the time.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to new creative ways the undead hordes who "make the world tremble when they march to war" to keep up the fine tradition of losing. Then again when you write them as characters who have no real motivation other than "I need to take over the world for some reason" they have to fail spectacularly over and over.

I hope the next Soulblight tome describes them as this intrigue at court type of deal where the immortal political game is far more important than world domination. We might actually get some interesting stories and characters that way! If a character manage to manoeuvre their way to the top they at the very least have a good reason for being there. They've already unveiled som really cool characters so I hope that translates well into the book.

[mojojojo101]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Here's another bit of fluff I appreciate:

The Windmage's weapon is called an "Aspiragillum". That's a play on the words "aspergillum", which is a holy water sprinkler and the Latin "spirare" (to breathe), and "aspirare" (to strive). There's also a connection to asperitas clouds, since the Windmage rides on a cloud. I just wanted to mention this somewhere, because it's a nice pun that nobody would notice otherwise.

Obscure Latin triple puns? In my battletome? It's more likely than you'd think.

I didn't know about the Holy water sprinkler thingy and so I thought this was just a reference to the Aspergillus mould (the name has the same origin) which I thought was very odd...

Thanks for clearing that up

[LuminethMage]

7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Here's another bit of fluff I appreciate:

The Windmage's weapon is called an "Aspiragillum". That's a play on the words "aspergillum", which is a holy water sprinkler and the Latin "spirare" (to breathe), and "aspirare" (to strive). There's also a connection to asperitas clouds, since the Windmage rides on a cloud. I just wanted to mention this somewhere, because it's a nice pun that nobody would notice otherwise.

Obscure Latin triple puns? In my battletome? It's more likely than you'd think.

Oh, I only found the asperitas cloud connection after googling around a bit. Very cool, someone knows their Latin and had some fun with it. 👍

[SpiritofHokuto]

On 3/29/2021 at 4:55 PM, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Eltharion put Arkhan over clean as a sheet in the middle of the ring at End Times 2015. I guarantee Arkhan has enough respect for this business and the boys in the back that he was damn sure gonna return the favours if Eltharion could still go
 

Now in terms of a rubber match you almost definitely gotta blow this thing off with some kind of a gimmick, now whether that's a steel cage or something more ah hang on I've posted this on the wrong website sorry

 

Reminds me of this I found, been proven false obviously but it's in the same vein.

 

[novakai]

Looking at the content now, i feel a bit disappointed with this book compare to Morathi when it comes to the stuff OBR and FEC got. i guess they couldn't spare a page for a fluffy new Legion or Court for those army or some more  random battalion. At least Nurgle got some much needed changes on some of their weaker warscroll. obviously the title faction is going to get the most focus but it does ring in my worries I had with BR and that the content armies got where going to be varying in quality.

[Indecisive]

Seeing people post stuff elsewhere. Not as bad as first thought.
Arkhan doesn't actually get deleted and Death/OBR are certainly getting the last laugh with all the dead elves lying about.

[NinthMusketeer]

Just finished actually reading it in person. I am EXTREMELY glad I avoided any spoilers or previews. It was a great read with a ton of nuance that I am sure will be frequently skimmed over in summaries.

 

Neither side comes of out this looking good. The narrative really delivers the theme that they just beat the snot out of each other on multiple fronts and everyone came away bloody. Every battle includes forces from both sides taken damage even when the result is one-sided. Both Lumineth and OBR come out seeming every bit the supernaturally elite forces they are supposed to be. There are some really cool tactics used by both sides tacking advantage of conventional maneuvers and magic in equal measure.

My favorite was when mortek guard are advancing towards a raised platform with sentinels on it. They have a shield wall up, and when they get to the base the second rank of the shield wall climbs on top of the first then both are fused together by supporting mortisans to create an unliving bone-ladder. Then the multiple subsequent ranks part to reveal stalkers that had been crawling six-limbed to stay hidden under the shields. The stalkers climb the ladder and get on top, carnage ensues.

And continuing the AoS trend of campaign books having good story; important stuff happens! Stuff that matters to the setting! Arkhan may be perma-dead, Nagash had his corporeal form broken again (but managed to give Teclis PTSD over their duel),  Null Myriad have been decimated, Glymmsforge and Lethis got a potent morale boost while fighting enemies that are literally slain by morale, and Mannfred gets to be the biggest ****** whoever dicked!

Haven't gotten to the rules yet but quite happy with the narrative. Feel free to ask any specific questions you may have about the book BTW.

[NinthMusketeer]

@Sception if someone gave you the impression Neffy doesn't look cool in this I question their judgement. Yes, she loses, but she is absolutely destroying the Lumineth in the process, including defeating the special character twins with ease. While she is channeling a realmgate-imploding ritual. Only when the literal spirit of the mountain they are fighting inside of shows up is Neffy disrupted in her ritual casting and retreats. But not before collapsing the cavern on her enemies (though the Alarith portion survives, obviously).

Also check out Neffy's two Novels (in chronological order, I would highly suggest) for her looking suitably powerful.

[Bosskelot]

I'm not sure where people are coming from with Phil Kelly and the Chaos Codex. His only writing credits for CSM Codexes are 3.5 and 6th edition. The 3.5 dex was probably the most fluffy and interesting book GW have ever made (while also being completely busted) and the 6th Edition Codex was such a step up from the abortion that was the 4th ed dex. Not that it was a particularly great book mind you but it was certainly an improvement over their last one. The Daemons Codex in the same edition was also fairly decent and also written by Kelly.

Blaming him for the deluge of Elves in AOS also exposes a real lack of understanding with how GW designs new products and is the same sort of misunderstanding that still follows Matt Ward around to this day (thanks 1d4chan!)

Edited March 31, 2021 by Bosskelot

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Just finished actually reading it in person. I am EXTREMELY glad I avoided any spoilers or previews. It was a great read with a ton of nuance that I am sure will be frequently skimmed over in summaries.

 

Neither side comes of out this looking good. The narrative really delivers the theme that they just beat the snot out of each other on multiple fronts and everyone came away bloody. Every battle includes forces from both sides taken damage even when the result is one-sided. Both Lumineth and OBR come out seeming every bit the supernaturally elite forces they are supposed to be. There are some really cool tactics used by both sides tacking advantage of conventional maneuvers and magic in equal measure.

My favorite was when mortek guard are advancing towards a raised platform with sentinels on it. They have a shield wall up, and when they get to the base the second rank of the shield wall climbs on top of the first then both are fused together by supporting mortisans to create an unliving bone-ladder. Then the multiple subsequent ranks part to reveal stalkers that had been crawling six-limbed to stay hidden under the shields. The stalkers climb the ladder and get on top, carnage ensues.

And continuing the AoS trend of campaign books having good story; important stuff happens! Stuff that matters to the setting! Arkhan may be perma-dead, Nagash had his corporeal form broken again (but managed to give Teclis PTSD over their duel),  Null Myriad have been decimated, Glymmsforge and Lethis got a potent morale boost while fighting enemies that are literally slain by morale, and Mannfred gets to be the biggest ****** whoever dicked!

Haven't gotten to the rules yet but quite happy with the narrative. Feel free to ask any specific questions you may have about the book BTW.

Thx for the input, I can't wait to recieve mine!!! 

I hope to see the dwarvenkin involved in any of this Broken Realm books.

[NinthMusketeer]

Have none of the previews mentioned the Admiral? She plays a minor role but it is still important.

[Jator]

@NinthMusketeer All that sounds promising! I thought it was weird for the new twins or the Lyrior guy to not make anything relevant.

BTW, could you tell us what little mentions whe get about Tyrion and Malerion?

[Joseph Mackay]

3 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

I'm not sure where people are coming from with Phil Kelly and the Chaos Codex. His only writing credits for CSM Codexes are 3.5 and 6th edition. The 3.5 dex was probably the most fluffy and interesting book GW have ever made (while also being completely busted) and the 6th Edition Codex was such a step up from the abortion that was the 4th ed dex. Not that it was a particularly great book mind you but it was certainly an improvement over their last one. The Daemons Codex in the same edition was also fairly decent and also written by Kelly.

Blaming him for the deluge of Elves in AOS also exposes a real lack of understanding with how GW designs new products and is the same sort of misunderstanding that still follows Matt Ward around to this day (thanks 1d4chan!)

Matt Wards reputation is warranted is it not? Every book he wrote was op compared to every book he didn’t. Phil Kelly, from the books I’ve personally read, are written to match the lore as much as possible, his books have always been fun, nothing stood out as bad or op. Robin Crudance on the other hand, I don’t understand why or how he became 40ks head rules writer after the abomination he wrote that was the 5th edition Tyranids codex (it’s a known fact he’s really into Imperial Guard and tanks, I believe due to a military background, and he openly hated tyranids because in the lore and the game they’d kill his guys. That codex made tyranids basically unplayable for 2 editions because of his bias). This sort of thing is why they stopped publishing the rules writers name in the books, rather than get rid of the bad writers.

AoS seems to have like 3 rules writers: the guy who writes fun, balanced rules (Gloomspite Gits), the guy who writes the most op rules possible (Bonereapers, Slaanesh), and the guy who writes the worst rules (Cities Of Sigmar). Due to the above, we don’t know who each of these writers are and I think that’s a shame because I’d like to be able to avoid books written by the 2nd and 3rd guy and only play books from the first (opponents can play whatever they want, I just don’t find those types of books fun).

in regards to Broken Realms Teclis. What did people expect, really? Of course Nagash was going to fail, he has to fail or there is no Age Of Sigmar. His plans ever succeeding literally means EVERYTHING dies. Also you can’t ignore the role Mannfred plays in trying to ****** him over as much as possible 

[sandlemad]

One bit of thematic subtext I'm interested in from BR Teclis - and I hope it's actually consciously hinted at and not purely fan interpretation from summarisers like 2+ Tough - is the dissonance between Teclis's aims and their likely impact.

Seemingly his goal in Shyish isn't conquest but to inspire hope, show that Nagash can be resisted, that he's fallible and not quite as All and One as he portrays himself, that Shyish needn't be like this. So it's all about the symbolic warfare, breaking monuments, humbling the Ossiarch commanders. Dawnriders are dispatched to various mortal Shyishian settlements to display the heads and captured arms of the Ossiarch overlords, and say "hey, you can do this too". Shades there of Teclis teaching the Empire magic in the world that was.

However apparently Teclis goes about the whole invasion in hubristic unilateral way. It seems Alarielle disagrees with what he's doing? Shades of Teclis during the End Times. Various Lumineth forces are outmanoeuvred and obliterated because they underestimate the Ossiarch's creativity or endurance, all for the sake of striking a blow at Nagash's pride and aura of invincibility rather than more conventional military goals.

All this is interesting. Buuuut we (or 2+ Tough at least) are left questioning how inspiring it really is when you're a downtrodden Shyishian peasant and a gleaming otherworldly elven knight rides up and tells you that you have the power to throw off your chains. Does that really spark a flame of resistance in your heart? Or does it just make you think "Easy for you to say, you OP shiny so-and-so"? I'd like to know if the book buys in entirely on these high ideals or if it accepts that Teclis's theory might not be perfect when put into practice.

My suspicion is that BR Teclis probably does look at this contrast. A lot has been made about the other big instance of Lumineth 'inspiring' and 'uplifting' non-Lumineth, namely Settler's Gain, and that feels like something of an interpretative road-sign for this idea. The Lumineth come along high and mighty, make genuine improvements to the free city and share their arcane knowledge, but in a sniffy conceited way that breeds resentment on the part of their human allies who they consider as students or unruly children. Good goals addressed earnestly - there are Lumienth dying for this cause - but terrible conceited methods of achieving them. If that's the angle BR Teclis is taking... more of that please, it's the good interrogation of a faction's themes and concepts.

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

AoS seems to have like 3 rules writers: the guy who writes fun, balanced rules (Gloomspite Gits), the guy who writes the most op rules possible (Bonereapers, Slaanesh), and the guy who writes the worst rules (Cities Of Sigmar).

Are Cities of Sigmar rules considered bad? I know very little about them but I heard they were written by someone who loves the faction - of course, that could just be a myth

[PhoenixLord]

11 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Are Cities of Sigmar rules considered bad? I know very little about them but I heard they were written by someone who loves the faction - of course, that could just be a myth

As someone really new to the game, I really like how easy to understand they are and in someways how simple their combos are. Though maybe their simplicity is a downside from a more experienced perspective. 

[NinthMusketeer]

OBR don't have the most OP rules possible. Petrifax was dumb and both the Harvester and catapult have mechanical problems. But that still leaves most of the battletome which may be overpowered (Katakros) but simply due to their point cost being too low rather than a design issue.

Cities of Sigmar aren't bad unless one assumes nonsensical list design, which is never a fair assumption to make.

[NinthMusketeer]

8 hours ago, Jator said:

@NinthMusketeer All that sounds promising! I thought it was weird for the new twins or the Lyrior guy to not make anything relevant.

BTW, could you tell us what little mentions whe get about Tyrion and Malerion?

Tyrion is not in Hysh during this whole period. He is off on a quest against a being that, by Teclis' measure, is more deadly than Nagash. Some hints this may be him fighting against Archaon in Uhl-Gysh, but not definite. Malerion is not mentioned.

 

@sandlemad the book does not get into the actual impact of the Lumineth inspiration campaign, though not from ignoring it but rather that left as something yet to play out. So it would be a thread to keep an eye on in future narratives.

Edited March 31, 2021 by NinthMusketeer

[Neverchosen]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Are Cities of Sigmar rules considered bad? I know very little about them but I heard they were written by someone who loves the faction - of course, that could just be a myth

I think that Cities is a really fun and well balanced army but even as a labour of love it does have a few faults... namely there is an issue of redundancy within the army, as often certain heroes and units are simply a better choice. Certain armies have two or three units competing for a similar niche; Cities of Sigmar can easily have double that amount. I personally do not see this as a draw back as I am not a competitive player and I think list variety increases my experience with the game.  But many people are quite upset that their favourite unit in the army may not have the same competitive value as a similar unit. For example why take Executioners when you can take Black Guard, but why take Black Guard when you can take Phoenix Guard, and why take Phoenix Guard when you can proxy in Halflings?

If I played cities I would go for a mixed force and pick my favourite models. I would likely run a lot of Demigryph Knights, Ironbreakers and choose between Corsairs and Shadow Warriors.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

If I played cities I would go for a mixed force and pick my favourite models. I would likely run a lot of Demigryph Knights, Ironbreakers and choose between Corsairs and Shadow Warriors.

That looks like a pretty viable  Hammerhal list, for what it's worth.