AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Kaleb Daark]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

I'm sorry @Kaleb Daark , I'm just not impressed. Someone needs to teach those brutes that horns go on the helmets, not on the shoulders. And who needs something as inadequate and insufficient as a 'flamehurler' of sorts if well-trained Sentinels or a storm of searing white light do a much better and far more elegant job?! And due to these ugly helmets one can't even tell whether they are smiling or not. 

As with all those pathetic mortals clamoring for the grace of insane gods these still have a lot to learn but unfortunately lack the mental capacity to do so. 

Humans innit.

always trying to be something else.  Do your lot prototype their helmets with inflatable party balloons to get the shape?

[Maogrim]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Humans innit.

always trying to be something else.  Do your lot prototype their helmets with inflatable party balloons to get the shape?

Yes, basically. It's a craft and an art that requires several decades of learning to be brought to perfection. And also floating crystals.

[Lord Krungharr]

The Horns of Hashut should be short people dang it!

[Jagd]

Kinda surprised no leak for the allegiance abilities or points costs. 😑

[Ravinsild]

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Ravagers
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

LEADER

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Bolstered by Hate
    - Artefacts: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Lord on Manticore (255)**
    - Command Traits: Eternal Vendetta
    - Daemon Blade and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
    - Command Traits: Master of Magic
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Mask of Darkness
    - Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Aspiring Deathbringer (85)**
    - Goreaxe and Skullhammer

BATTLELINE

Chaos Warriors (200)*
    - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Warriors (200)*
    - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Warriors (200)*
    - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Ensorcelled Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Ensorcelled Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

BEHEMOTH

Chaos Warshrine (215)*
    - Prayers: Heal
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

OTHER

Chosen (145)**
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Do y’all think this list is any good? I honestly just want to use all the heavily armored badass models. Everything that looks like a chaos warrior on a mount or whatever. I can’t get enough of those minis. I hope it’s not a terrible list though. 

[Kramig]

Surely it isn't competitive: unluckely chaos warrior on foot are weak for their cost. 

I know chaos warrior have beautiful miniatures, but their performance is opposite to their beauty

[Salyx]

I would field Chaos Warriors at least in units of 20, because they lose their Bonus too quickly. Instead of 3 units of 10, I would go with one unit of 20 with Shield. Imo, there is one way to take units of 10 warriors. Equip them with Dual Handweapons and send them into lightly armored targets or use Curse scoring a lot of 6s because of the reroll. 

The Knights should be used with Lancers. Without Charge they suck, but when they Charge they are so much better than Ensorc Weapon Knights. 

The Chosen are great, one of the most underestimate units. 

I do not recommend taking Heal as a prayer. I see that you want to keep your heroes alive, but the Karkadrak is already able to heal and the Manticore can heal with the Heroic Action. By the way, don't you have too many Enhancement with two Artefacts and a generic prayer? Afaik, you can have one and get another one with Warlord. 

I hope I could give you some ideas. Good luck with your list. 

[Beliman]

The dmg potential of Ogroid Theridons seems awesome. With Great Axes (and only 5+ save...), they can hit stronger than Fulminators. And that's without any AoA or Battle Trait (They have Mark of Chaos too).

Delivery and ward saves are going to be their main drawbacks (I suppose), but that's exactly how this kind of mosnters should be.

And le'ts be honest, they look awesome!!

[Tizianolol]

Eternus seems very good with belakor, he got the same rule then a vampire hero on foot. If you can roll EVERY move phase after he is slain , he can be so hard to remove, it can be a very strong piece for legion of the firdt prince !:)

[Grimrock]

12 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Do y’all think this list is any good? I honestly just want to use all the heavily armored badass models. Everything that looks like a chaos warrior on a mount or whatever. I can’t get enough of those minis. I hope it’s not a terrible list though. 

I agree with @Salyx on the warriors, they really should be in units of 20 to ensure they have their shield bonus for as long as possible. I'd go a step further and suggest taking mark of Tzeentch on them and the Sorcerer. If you keep the sorcerer near them they'll be re-rolling 1's on their save, and with stacking armor on them they should pretty much always be at a 3+ save re-rolling ones. It makes theme extremely difficult to take down. I think you'd be fine grouping two units of 10 together and then either making the one unit have two hand weapons and mark of Khorne or maybe dropping them entirely for a different unit. I'd also agree on the Heal prayer, in theory the Curse one should be better to get the warriors working. In the end though I've always found myself just using the shrine Undivided prayer since it's better in 95% of situations. 

I disagree that the knights should have lances though. Even with the lances they won't take down anything substantial unless you get a bunch of buffs on them (which is dice dependent and often seems to fail right when you need it the most). Ensorcelled weapons make them better at grabbing and holding objectives, which in this list you really need. Plus if you're using the old models I kinda like the look of ensorcelled weapons more haha. 

I will say from experience that the Aspiring Deathbringer is, unfortunately, absolute garbage. He'll struggle to keep up with anything you actually want to buff and he will do absolutely no damage to anything. Pretty depressing considering how cool the model is. You'd be much better off running a Bloodstoker instead or, if you drop the warriors for something cheaper, putting in a Bloodsecrator. Either would be significantly more helpful.

As far as competitive goes it's tough to say. The biggest thing slaves struggles with is lack of damage. There isn't a lot of consistent rend or mortal wounds across the faction so we struggle to kill big stuff like giants or Archaon tier models. We are really tanky and will hold objectives well though so if you play a very conservative game and focus on the mission rather than killing things you might have some success. It'll probably come down to what is common in your local gaming group.

9 hours ago, Salyx said:

By the way, don't you have too many Enhancement with two Artefacts and a generic prayer? Afaik, you can have one and get another one with Warlord. 

He's fine with enhancements. All priests get a free prayer just like all wizards get a free spell, so the only extra one he's taking is the second artifact which is covered by the Warlord battalion. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Grimrock

[Ravinsild]

38 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I agree with @Salyx on the warriors, they really should be in units of 20 to ensure they have their shield bonus for as long as possible. I'd go a step further and suggest taking mark of Tzeentch on them and the Sorcerer. If you keep the sorcerer near them they'll be re-rolling 1's on their save, and with stacking armor on them they should pretty much always be at a 3+ save re-rolling ones. It makes theme extremely difficult to take down. I think you'd be fine grouping two units of 10 together and then either making the one unit have two hand weapons and mark of Khorne or maybe dropping them entirely for a different unit. I'd also agree on the Heal prayer, in theory the Curse one should be better to get the warriors working. In the end though I've always found myself just using the shrine Undivided prayer since it's better in 95% of situations. 

I disagree that the knights should have lances though. Even with the lances they won't take down anything substantial unless you get a bunch of buffs on them (which is dice dependent and often seems to fail right when you need it the most). Ensorcelled weapons make them better at grabbing and holding objectives, which in this list you really need. Plus if you're using the old models I kinda like the look of ensorcelled weapons more haha. 

I will say from experience that the Aspiring Deathbringer is, unfortunately, absolute garbage. He'll struggle to keep up with anything you actually want to buff and he will do absolutely no damage to anything. Pretty depressing considering how cool the model is. You'd be much better off running a Bloodstoker instead or, if you drop the warriors for something cheaper, putting in a Bloodsecrator. Either would be significantly more helpful.

As far as competitive goes it's tough to say. The biggest thing slaves struggles with is lack of damage. There isn't a lot of consistent rend or mortal wounds across the faction so we struggle to kill big stuff like giants or Archaon tier models. We are really tanky and will hold objectives well though so if you play a very conservative game and focus on the mission rather than killing things you might have some success. It'll probably come down to what is common in your local gaming group.

He's fine with enhancements. All priests get a free prayer just like all wizards get a free spell, so the only extra one he's taking is the second artifact which is covered by the Warlord battalion. 

I like this feedback. My thoughts are Aspiring Deathbringer is there for his command ability which is +1 to attacks. Bloodsecrator I fear contradicts the Sorcerer who I can use his spell on Karkadrak Lord or Knights for re-roll to hits and to wounds plus if they are Khorne +1 to wound due to aura and potentially for knights +1 to hit from CA. 
 

I figure my list would be a very defensive counter punch type list with an anvil, and let the enemy come to me. In my meta destruction is very popular with Orruk Warclans and Ogres. There’s a lot of chaos, BoK, Slaanesh, Nurgle and even Tzeentch. Stormcast and CoS and Sylvaneth and Seraphon. I never see Giants or Archaon or anything though. No DoK or Fyreslayers or Nagash. 
 

I like the Tzeentch idea so I’ll change my list later but after feedback I came up with this:

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Ravagers
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

LEADER

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Bolstered by Hate
    - Artefacts: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Lord (120)**
    - Command Traits: Flames of Spite
    - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
    - Command Traits: Master of Magic
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Mask of Darkness
    - Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Aspiring Deathbringer (85)**
    - Goreaxe and Skullhammer

BATTLELINE

1 x Chaos Warriors (400)*
    - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Cursed Lance and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Cursed Lance and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

BEHEMOTH

Chaos Warshrine (215)*
    - Prayers: Curse
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

OTHER

Wrathmongers (145)*

1 x Chosen (290)**
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1955/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ravinsild

[Grimrock]

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I like this feedback. My thoughts are Aspiring Deathbringer is there for his command ability which is +1 to attacks. Bloodsecrator I fear contradicts the Sorcerer who I can use his spell on Karkadrak Lord or Knights for re-roll to hits and to wounds plus if they are Khorne +1 to wound due to aura and potentially for knights +1 to hit from CA. 

Yeah in theory the extra attack is nice, the problem is he's so slow and his aura is so small that you're going to have issues getting that +1 attack out to anyone that matters (like the chaos knights or the chaos lord on manticore). A bloodstoker is the same points and gives reroll to wounds (which I think is pretty comparable to +1 attack) while also giving +3 to charge and not costing any command points. You need to plan your positioning a turn in advance, but after the buff is applied the units can run off and go wherever they want. Alternatively with the points you freed up you could take a chaos lord with mark of khorne instead. He's got similar issues to the deathbringer but his fight twice is generally way better than an extra attack and he's StD so he'll gives you access to another summon and gets a free trait. Up to you though, maybe you can figure out a way to make the deathbringer work. 

Based on your opponents I think the list could do pretty well. Nurgle and Stormcast might be tough since they're so bloody tanky but otherwise nothing really jumps out at me. Let us know how it goes!

[Cambot1231]

Is there any synergy with having a tzeentch Curseling in a Cabalist Std List? I know the blue scribes work well but was wondering if the Curseling brings anything to the table outside of his warscroll abilities to the army.  Does he get the benefit of the pluses to cast from the cabalist allegiance ability? And he cannot take abilities or artifacts since he is an ally correct?

[Rors]

On 5/2/2022 at 3:56 PM, Beliman said:

The dmg potential of Ogroid Theridons seems awesome. With Great Axes (and only 5+ save...), they can hit stronger than Fulminators. And that's without any AoA or Battle Trait (They have Mark of Chaos too).

Delivery and ward saves are going to be their main drawbacks (I suppose), but that's exactly how this kind of mosnters should be.

And le'ts be honest, they look awesome!!

M6 with 5 wounds and a 5+ save makes them very vulnerable to anything with range. I think their main drawback will be getting riddled with projectiles. We haven't seen what the new Chaos marks will do yet or how much they cost or if there's any additional rules support for them. Still, looking at them as is, my gut feeling is Timmy trap. 

[Agent of Chaos]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:01 AM, Cambot1231 said:

Is there any synergy with having a tzeentch Curseling in a Cabalist Std List? I know the blue scribes work well but was wondering if the Curseling brings anything to the table outside of his warscroll abilities to the army.  Does he get the benefit of the pluses to cast from the cabalist allegiance ability? And he cannot take abilities or artifacts since he is an ally correct?

Only slaves units get the cabalist keyword and only cabalist wizards get the bonus to cast from the allegiance ability. Allied units cannot have enhancements so no artifacts either. Dont think there is much synergy there.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

M6 with 5 wounds and a 5+ save makes them very vulnerable to anything with range. I think their main drawback will be getting riddled with projectiles. We haven't seen what the new Chaos marks will do yet or how much they cost or if there's any additional rules support for them. Still, looking at them as is, my gut feeling is Timmy trap. 

I think that's completely intended:

• Full dmg (that can take down an Ironclad in one average hit) but really vulnerable to incoming dmg (ranged, strike first, etc...)
• A bit more tanky but half dmg.

Imho, that's a good step in the right direction. Maybe not the best "point and click" unit for competitive play, but I'm fine with that (until someone find a delivery system to remove their downsides...)

[Ravinsild]

6 hours ago, Beliman said:

I think that's completely intended:

• Full dmg (that can take down an Ironclad in one average hit) but really vulnerable to incoming dmg (ranged, strike first, etc...)
• A bit more tanky but half dmg.

Imho, that's a good step in the right direction. Maybe not the best "point and click" unit for competitive play, but I'm fine with that (until someone find a delivery system to remove their downsides...)

Well if they can somehow get a massive buff to their charge rolls perhaps with Mask of Darkness…? 

[ChaosUndivided]

Also if Pitch Black is still a thing (presumably) that helps. 

That Ogeroid damned legion may very well have either speed or durability buffs tho.

[Lightbox]

I got to play my first game of Idolators yesterday (and first aos game in like 6 months) and once again I'm still struggling with the issue (that tbh all of us can struggle with) of trying to find units that can actually punch through roadblocks. I played against Fyreslayers yesterday and got absolutely stopped in my tracks by them once again being reminded that whilst chaos warriors make for lovely anvils they really struggle to kill anything especially in AoS3's world of all out defences.

I'm considering trying out some Fomoroids for their ranged abilities, cheap monsterness and reliable attack profile and maybe varanguard to try and get some rend and fast damage in my list (though they are a lot of points) and of course trying to use my idolator lords more as support pieces.

Anyone have much experience with trying to break through tougher anvil units or elites of opponents outside of Archy/Bella? I'm fine trying to learn to pay the control game and go for objectives but need a reliable way to get through opponents roadblocks so I can reach said objectives.

[Enoby]

3 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Anyone have much experience with trying to break through tougher anvil units or elites of opponents outside of Archy/Bella? I'm fine trying to learn to pay the control game and go for objectives but need a reliable way to get through opponents roadblocks so I can reach said objectives.

I've had some luck with Sixth Circle Varanguard, but you'd likely be running Archaon then so I wouldn't count that.

Outside of them, Chaos Knights when rerolling hits and wounds can pack a punch but only on a charge, which leaves them weak to screening. They're also terrible if they get charged first, so they're not the best pick when your opponent knows how they work.

I find Chosen pretty great, again mostly if they're rerolling hits to get more MWs. They are pretty slow though, and expensive.

The Chaos Lord on Kakadrak can be good, but the unexplainably dull axe means they don't get through high saves that well. 

I wouldn't say we currently have a one size fits all unit (besides Archaon) that's always good at punching through walls. Thankfully the new Ogroid unit looks to change that, but they're not out for a while.  

[Ravinsild]

What about SKARBRAND? What about SKARBRAND with the wizards re-roll hit and re-roll wound spell and also mask of darkness to teleport him with his own re-roll charge rolls. 

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

What about SKARBRAND? What about SKARBRAND with the wizards re-roll hit and re-roll wound spell and also mask of darkness to teleport him with his own re-roll charge rolls. 

I wish, but you gotta check out those keyword requirements on the spells. 

 

7 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Anyone have much experience with trying to break through tougher anvil units or elites of opponents outside of Archy/Bella? I'm fine trying to learn to pay the control game and go for objectives but need a reliable way to get through opponents roadblocks so I can reach said objectives.

I have seen a unit of 6 varanguard with daemon weapons in knights of the empty throne roll through my Maggotkin pretty hard. Even with my pile in shenanigans messing with them they pretty much steamrolled my army throughout the game. The biggest problem is they were the only thing doing damage so I was able to bully the rest of the army and still won on scenario despite the varanguard killing 1000ish points worth of models. 

[Ravinsild]

Ah man. So basically SKARBRAND can come but he’s on his own. 

[Skjold]

23 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Also if Pitch Black is still a thing (presumably) that helps. 

That Ogeroid damned legion may very well have either speed or durability buffs tho.

We are only getting the 3rd ed, single ability, subfaction treatment tho. Which really sucks. Im gonna miss the fun on of messing with all the current Damned Legions.

[Ravinsild]

I have been reading everyone's feedback, so what do you all think of this list? Still centered around my theme of Chaos Warriors and the ilk, Chosen/Knights, big guys in scary black armor looking awesome. Thoughts or opinions with y'all revisions at hand?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
- General
- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Artefact: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Manticore (255)**
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact: Blasphemous Cuirass
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Bloodstoker (85)**
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (400)*
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
5 x Chaos Chosen (145)**
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)*
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)*

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (215)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 85 / 400
Wounds: 143
Drops: 5
 

I made my shield wall Tzeentch and also the Sorcerer in order to babysit them to re-roll the saves. Everyone else is Khorne for the Prayer from the Warshrine.

 

I have at least 3 ways to re-roll wound rolls to spread out (Chosen ability after killing something, Bloodstoker ability, Eternal Vendetta, and the Wizard's special warscroll spell), I have at least 2 ways that I know of to re-roll hit rolls (Khorne Prayer from Shrine and also the Wizard's special warscroll spell). I have at multiple re-roll charge rolls (Artifact on my general, Khorne Prayer on Shrine, Chaos Lord on Manticore for my Chaos Warriors).

 

My Chaos Lord on Karkadrak can give +1 to hit rolls to my knights in addition, thanks to him being the general and the Aura of Khorne +1 to wound rolls. I think I have a lot of overlapping powerful buffs I can give to the right hammers at the right time in order to hopefully overcome STD's lack of damage in addition to having powerful anvils to hold objectives.