Jator Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Public Universal Duardin said: So, we know what retro models GW is bringing out from the mothballs for Orcs and Goblins. What is on your wishlist regarding the other factions? Any old sculpts you'd like to see as MTO? Not exactly what you're asking, but I'd love if the Empire had back halflings, ogres and imperial dwarfs. Not because the actual models ( I probably won't collect Empire anyway) but just for the fact they'll be there. It would feel right and properly warhammery. But I'm just a nostalgic, not gonna lie. Oh! And Eltharion on Stormwing. It's only right after we got the shaman on wyvern. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotz Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I've written some stuff that contradicts what I believe are the principles that determine what gets made to order, but I want to believe XD Iconic/Nostalgic Has a profile on the army list Is not a named character Dwarves: Gotrek & Felix gyrocopter Thorgrim Bugman High Elves: "snake dragon" (Imrik) Tyrion & Teclis Griffon (Eltharion) Chaos: Two Headed Dragon (Galrauch) Slambo Harry the hammer random assortment of champions Beastman: Minotaurs Wood Elves 4th ed "snake dragon" Orion & Ariel Treemen Metal Dryads Empire Halfling Hot-pot Steam Tank Knight Grandmasters War Altar Knights Panther/White Wolf, etc.. Forgeworld stuff from Black Pass 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 18 minutes ago, Gotz said: I've written some stuff that contradicts what I believe are the principles that determine what gets made to order, but I want to believe XD Iconic/Nostalgic Has a profile on the army list Is not a named character Dwarves: Gotrek & Felix gyrocopter Thorgrim Bugman High Elves: "snake dragon" (Imrik) Tyrion & Teclis Griffon (Eltharion) Chaos: Two Headed Dragon (Galrauch) Slambo Harry the hammer random assortment of champions Beastman: Minotaurs Wood Elves 4th ed "snake dragon" Orion & Ariel Treemen Metal Dryads Empire Halfling Hot-pot Steam Tank Knight Grandmasters War Altar Knights Panther/White Wolf, etc.. Forgeworld stuff from Black Pass Great list! Iike to see Egrimm as well for Chaos. I'm hoping the Kev Adams night goblins and orc warriors come to MTO, some of the best O&G models of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 40 minutes ago, Gotz said: Wood Elves 4th ed "snake dragon" Orion & Ariel Treemen Metal Dryads The Warhammer Quest Wardancer too! The one armed with twin katanas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 It is interesting to see on Social Media that some people are reporting that they have received their MTO Tomb King and Bretonnian minis already (and they have arrived in fully branded clam packs with artwork) It makes you think that these models were actually planned for standard release, but due to the huge demand for the first wave of releases, they changed these follow-up models to MTO to capitalise on the demand (which they have clearly underestimated) It makes sense, considering these models would fit well within the range as generally available minis. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, Hollow said: It is interesting to see on Social Media that some people are reporting that they have received their MTO Tomb King and Bretonnian minis already (and they have arrived in fully branded clam packs with artwork) It makes you think that these models were actually planned for standard release, but due to the huge demand for the first wave of releases, they changed these follow-up models to MTO to capitalise on the demand (which they have clearly underestimated) It makes sense, considering these models would fit well within the range as generally available minis. Doesn't it make sense for GW to pre-produce a certain amount of stock even for a planned Made To Order release? The last MTO release I participated in was the limited edition Vampire Lord, and they had clearly pre-produced a fairly significant amount of them at the time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyantheFett Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 New to Old World so I have been making some cheat sheets and cards for my group. Not the best job, but better then nothing lol? Did not do Orc spells, but these forms can be filled out. Signature.pdf Spell 1.pdf Spell 2.pdf Spell 3.pdf Spell 4.pdf Spell 5.pdf Spell 6.pdf Cheat Sheet Weapons.pdf 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, Gotz said: I've written some stuff that contradicts what I believe are the principles that determine what gets made to order, but I want to believe XD Iconic/Nostalgic Has a profile on the army list Is not a named character Dwarves: Gotrek & Felix gyrocopter Thorgrim Bugman High Elves: "snake dragon" (Imrik) Tyrion & Teclis Griffon (Eltharion) Chaos: Two Headed Dragon (Galrauch) Slambo Harry the hammer random assortment of champions Beastman: Minotaurs Wood Elves 4th ed "snake dragon" Orion & Ariel Treemen Metal Dryads Empire Halfling Hot-pot Steam Tank Knight Grandmasters War Altar Knights Panther/White Wolf, etc.. Forgeworld stuff from Black Pass Aren't Steam Tanks and Gyrocopters already with us via AoS Cities of Sigmar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, EntMan said: Aren't Steam Tanks and Gyrocopters already with us via AoS Cities of Sigmar? Maybe the older versions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotz Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, EntMan said: Aren't Steam Tanks and Gyrocopters already with us via AoS Cities of Sigmar? Yeah, but thats the point, all models that are made to order are mostly older minis variants of stuff that is already sold or is going to be in old world lineup. A good example is the giant. We already have a plastic giant (from ¿7th? Fantasy ed) and are going to get a retooled resin giant, the bonegrinder and made to order marauder giant I've just realised that forgeworld orc stuff is not mto, so I expect Empire and dwarf ones to be regular releases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 9 hours ago, KingKull said: Could you share your entire list please? I'm looking at getting into tomb kings, but for the life of me can't get around the faction. Tomb Kings Mortuary Cult (out of Arcane Journal: Tomb Kings) 210 - High Liche Priest, Level 4, Lore of Necromancy, Warding Splint*, Earthing Rod 163 - 23 Skeleton Warriors, light armor, spears, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command 70 - 14 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 147 - 3 Ushabti, greatbows 200 - Necrosphinx, envenomed sting 75 - Tomb Scorpion, ambushers 135 - Casket of Souls *option from Arcane Journal: Tomb Kings Characters.......210 points - 21% Core...................380 points - 38% Special..............275 points - 27.5% Rare...................135 points - 13.5% Total................1000 points Does this forum still have spoiler blocks? Didn't there used to be an eyeball icon for that? I used it in my previous post, but it's not there now... I'm going to try and sblock the in depth explanation and example tomb kings army building thoughts, if it doesn't work I apologize for the overly long post. EDIT: there it is, the option just disappears if I'm not zoomed far enough out I guess. Spoiler I went with mortuary cult because it allows my heirophant to also be my general, which bypasses the usual requirement to field both a monarch and a priest in the same army, which in turn makes it easier to afford the level four at 1000 points. A level 4 wizard is highly effective at shutting down bound spells and regular spells cast by lower level support wizards, plus the higher caster level on a lich priest especially makes him more effective at healing units as well. The Warding Splint from the arcane journal is, imo, mandatory for your heirophant, making them much tougher with 5+ armor and ward saves on top of their 5+ regen, without impacting casting ability. Earthing rod is very cheap and provides some protection from an unlucky miscast. I went with necromancy for theme (my tomb kings are loyal to the true lord of Nehekhara, the Great Necromancer), but there's some great spells in there. The -2 leadership hex is especially nasty if you can pull it off at a critical moment, and the spell that give himself and his unit Terror is strong enough that you might consider leaving him in the spears when it's time for combat instead of dropping back behind them. For your chosen spell, I love Incantation of the Desert Sind to help with the army's low mobility. At level four and with the casket nearby you're very likely to get it off at the 10+ casting value to affect every unit in his command range. One reasonably large block of skeleton warriors gives me something to take a charge with. They won't beat anything actually competent in combat, but they'll rarely evaporate in a single turn, letting you set up flank charges. I'll generally start the priest in this unit for a nice field of view, but shift him out if the skeletons are likely to be charged in the next turn, or if I'm going to move them out of the casket's 12" bubble of +1 to cast that turn - especially if the opponent has a level 4 dispeller. Nehekharan phalanx is great to keep them from getting pushed back, making it easier to judge how your supporting units should be positioned. Mortuary Cult Allows me a single unit of Ushabti as a core choice, so I took a minimum squad with Greatbows to provide some additional ranged support (with S6, AP-1, and Multiple Wounds they can soften up large monster targets or threaten to take small monsters like giant eagles right off the table) that can also provide a bit of counter-punch with a flank charge in support of the main skeleton block - even armed with greatbows they've still got a decent number of S4 melee attacks with AP-1 for the kopesh rule). In a normal tomb kings list, I'd take a trio of skeleton chariots with command to fill more or less the same role (weaker shooting but stronger melee punch on the charge) at exactly the same points. Rounding out Core with some Skeleton Skirmishers. This is a versatile unit with a handful of different potential uses. With warbows they provide some light shooting support to chase off enemy screens, threaten eagles, & the like. Skirmish formation really helps here with 360degree vision and the ability to space them out so more can shoot. With vanguard (and chariot runners if you take chariots instead of ushabti) they can run ahead of your units to screen them from shooting if your opponent is running a lot of that. Alternatively, they can hang out behind your lines to shield the casket from ambushers, or to provide a bunker that the wizard can fall back to before combat if it isn't safe to be outside of a unit due to enemy snipers (like that wood elf hero) or war machines. If the scenario needs a unit to go stand on an objective they can also be sent to do that without sacrificing the main battle line units. You can even pay extra for ambushers (I didn't have the points spare in this list) for additional opportunities. Granted they lack a bit of the maneuverability you'd generally expect from skirmishers due to the undead's inability to march, but Incantation of the Desert Wind can make up for that. Because they can do so many different things, I try not to commit to a particular use in my battle plan, and instead decide what I need them to do during deployment. Mortuary Cult lets me take a single Necrosphinx as a special unit, so of course I do that. The model is fantastic, one of those iconic, faction-selling models. Gameplay wise, it's fast (for tomb kings anyway) with fly speed 9 and swift strider, Terror potentially forces units to flee without even engaging them and if they do hold their nerve lowers their leadership if they lose combat, which is amazing. It's pretty tough with six Toughness 6 wounds plus heavy armor and 5+ regeneration (doesn't sound like a lot if you're coming from age of sigmar, and a pair of great cannons will admittedly chew through it pretty fast if you let them draw line of sight, but small arms fire & non-great-weapon melee units will have a real hard time scratching it) and hits fairly hard with 5 Ws4 S5 Ap-1 attacks with killing blow, plus one extra strength 10 AP-4 attack with monster slayer, plus d3+2 stomp attacks. The stinger as a cheap upgrade looks cool and lets it trade one of its normal attacks for a slightly weaker attack but with strikes first, which seems particularly useful for picking out unit champions. A necrosphinx isn't going to blend through elite anvils on its own, but it can put a significant hurt on most targets and threaten to outright kill anything. Initiative 1, but again most units have a hard time hurting it, and with M9 flying you should be able to avoid units that will just beat it. The soul reaper rule for re-roll 1s to hit against a chosen enemy character plus killing blow and that single attack with monster slayer as well means even the most powerful dragon lords in the game costing twice or even 3 times its points will likely shy away from it., but don't be fooled. Despite all that, it's really not on the level of dragon riding lords. At at 200 points though it's quite effective. Generally the idea is to position this thing for a flank charge against anything that charges the main spearleton block, but it's also quite happy to run out on its own if there's a weak spot in the opponent's line that isn't hard enough to soak its attacks or choppy enough to threaten it. In a normal Tomb Kings list Necrosphinxes are rare and wouldn't fit in the list with the Casket at this points level, so instead I'd run a Warsphinx for around the same points depending on options. Similar effectiveness at the main role of providing melee support to the spearleton block, it trades the ability to go out hunting on its own with fly 9 and swiftstrider for the option to take a decent breath weapon to soften up enemy units that get too close before combat. The one thing I will say after my first game is that in smaller games especially, depending on what units they take, your opponent just might not have the tools to fight a big monster of any sort. Check with your opponent before the game and have an alternative option in mind in case it would make for a poor play experience. By 1500 points though I'd say if your opponent can't handle a 5 or 6 wound monster that's on them. 😛 The Tomb Scorpion is there because Mortuary Cult are required to take one per 1k points, so it's obligatory. That said, for 75 points it's reasonably tough and packs a bit of a sting (har har). With ambushers it can show up from board edges to hunt war machines & shooty support units, or the priest can call it from beneath the sands to support the spearleton block or position it like you might with a giant eagle to block and redirect a charge that the skeleton block might not want to take head on. So there's a fair bit of utility to it and I don't at all feel bad about having to take one, even though I probably wouldn't have spent the points on it in a normal tomb kings list, certainly not in a smaller list like this. Finally the Casket of Souls is another of those faction-defining classic models that I just can't leave home without, so I'd field it no matter what it did in game. Thankfully it's amazing anyway, with a 12" bubble of +1 to casting rolls (including bound spells but not including its own bound spells), helping my level 4 wizard push spells through even against other level 4s. Even more significantly, it has two bound spells cast at +3, the most important one being Light of Protection, an 18" range remains in play bubble granting all of your units within range a 6+ ward and imposing a -1 to hit penalty on any attacks made against them. This is astoundingly good if your opponent fails to stop it, and toes a long way towards making up for the faction's relatively lacking armor saves. The casket also has a pretty strong magic missile which you typically don't want to cast since it shuts off Light of Protection if it's up, but it's nice to have in case Light of Protection failed to cast or got dispelled. The main drawback of the casket is that it's completely immobile - wherever you put it, there it stays for the whole game, so you may find yourself forced to move out of the 12" casting buff range or even the 18" light of protection range, particularly with your flank units or if you're fighting a castling/turtling shooty army. ..... And that's everything I'm currently running in my standard list at 1,000 points, along with the reasoning behind it. That said, there are some other important tools in the Tomb Kings arsenal worth mentioning, even though I didn't take them here. Battle Standard Bearer: tomb herald for normal or royal host armies, level 1-2 lich priests for mortuary cult, either way its the banner that's most important. These reduce wounds from crumbling for nearby units that fail combat, and that's fine and good, but the big part is that re-roll for leadership tests. With an undead army - unbreakable and immune to psychology - you might think that doesn't matter so much, but lots of things require leadership tests. Lich priest healing and calling units from beneath the sands, necrotect and tomb king buffs, these all require leadership tests to trigger. You can take a charge and be in a perfect position to heal up and countercharge only to fail your critical healing checks and suddenly be in a tough spot. At 1000 points you might not be able to fit one, but by 2,000 points imo the BSB is mandatory, at least for a typical battle line type army. Tomb Kings/Princes: one of these is required to be your general in a normal or royal host TK army, and even in a mortuary cult a tomb prince is worth taking as they're pretty tough and can hit reasonably hard. Put one of these in the front of a Skeleton or especially tomb guard unit and suddenly they're not just taking charges & maybe not crumbling, they can actually win some fights against weaker units, or hold out much longer against stronger ones, especially with a nearby priest to provide some healing. On top of being reasonably competent melee fighters, kings and princes can also buff the movement, weapons skill, or initiative of their unit, which can be a big deal. The one issue with kings and princes is a relative lack of mundane armor, so you'll want to invest your magic item allotment there. These guys can also ride chariots to run with them, and the kings can ride a bone dragon or warsphinx to become a big scary monster lord. All solid options, though I prefer to use them to add some punch to your infantry battle line. That said, there's something to be said for Tomb Kings monster spam. "matched play" limits armies to a mere 3 great cannons, and while that'll put down one monster easily it'll have trouble chewing through a king on a sphinx or dragon with a 4+ ward AND two war sphinxes AND a necrosphinx, with an obligatory heirophant holding the backfield with a bunch of archers and a casket. Necrotect: these are infantry support heroes who buff the melee ability of the unit they're in. Kind of wasted in skeletons that don't hit so hard even with extra attacks and hatred, but a tomb guard unit becomes quite dangerous. With only a couple wounds and light armor the Necrotect is pretty fragile though, so again you'll want to invest in magic armor, and that in turn can cause conflicts with your fighty heroes. Especially Princes and Heralds, as they all really want the armor of silvered steel. Still, if you can work it into the list, a big block of tomb guard six or seven wide with a necrotect next to a 5x5 block of spearletons with a tomb king (aesthetically and thematically you'd prefer to put the king with the guard and the tect with the skeletons, but whatever) is a very solid core to a battle line. Tomb Guard: Mortuary Cult can't take tomb guard, but these guys are tougher and hit harder than skeletons (given the kopesh rule I wouldn't bother with halberds, unless you just like them aesthetically), so I'd prefer to anchor my line with these in royal host and normal Tomb Kings armies, especially when you get up to normal game sizes. Chariots: units of light chariots are an iconic, even faction defining unit for tomb kings. You can take em big and put heroes in them, and they can do well that way, but you end up with a huge and somewhat unwieldy frontage which can get them charged by multiple enemy units at once, which they really aren't tough enough to take, and that fragility plus lack of impact when they're not charging has me skeptical of using them as your big central battleline unit (though the royal host's tomb guard chariots might be able to pull that off). For regular chariots, I like to keep them in units of three on the flanks for 150 points, able to chase off light cavalry or skirmishing units that might otherwise encircle your battleline, or wheel inward to threaten flank charges on anything that gets stuck in with your skeletons or tomb guard. At first impression I'm not convinced that they're amazing, but they are iconic and thematically faction defining, so I feel like you really should try to fit some in if you're able to. Skeletal Horse Archers: The humble horse archer, sadly probably the single worst looking unit in the entire tomb kings line, is arguably the best core unit available to the faction. Seriously, these should probably take up special points they're so good. Take every good thing I said about the versatility of the skeletal skirmishers, then double their movement and give them reserve move all the time without relying on a spell (and proximity to that spellcaster). Sure they cost twice as much per model, so you get half as many shots and wounds per point, but I cannot stress enough how good the movement is. They're fantastic as throw away screens, they're excellent harassment units to pick at lightly armored enemy shooting units then reserve move back behind a building to avoid return fire, they can hunt down lone stragglers of almost-but-not-quite-killed units (that enemy unit reduced to a single model that went and hid behind some terrain is still worth 75% of its starting points cost - ride your horsemen around the corner and shoot it!), and they're an excellent, maybe even the best, behind-the-lines bunker to shelter your heirophant in. The only problem is the terrible models (both for the horse archers themselves and the only available first party cavalry lich priest, which I can't believe they have the gall to charge us$45 for on made to order) - which are enough to stop me from fielding them altogether, though I will work on some substitute models when and if black knights are ever back in stock. If you don't mind the models so much, or play in a store that allows third party models (check out Lost Kingdom Miniature's Khnum Riders plus Neftari the Priestess or Seb, Headless Sorcerer) then I'd absolutely recommend at least one minimum unit of these per thousand points, and/or a larger unit of 8 to 10 as a bunker for your heirophant. For command get the champion if you can spare the points or are bunkering a liche priest in them, but don't take the standard or musician. You won't win or even tie melee combats with them regardless, and the banner especially is just offering free victory points to your opponent. Screaming Skull Catapults: Tomb Kings have some fantastic rare units. I've already sung the praises of both necrosphinxes and caskets of souls, but do not overlook the humble bonapult. Table spanning range, indirect fire, and fairly significant damage on the center hole - forcing wizards to actually join units instead of just skirting around at their edges and potentially smashing enemy war machines that threaten your sphinxes & chariots. Additionally, units that take ANY unsaved wounds from an ssc must take a panic test, which can chase unlucky units off the field before the game's even properly started. All of that doesn't even touch on the main thing you take this unit for - With the 'skulls of the enemy' upgrade any enemy units near where the template lands - even if it hits nothing at all - suffer an automatic -1 leadership penalty that lasts all the way until your next turn. This is HUGE. Many hero abilities only work on successful leadership tests, the penalty applies to terror, fear, and panic tests (including those caused by the ssc itself), and it stacks with other penalties to leadership. With the necromancy hex, terror, and an ssc penalty you could potentially be forcing break tests for failed combat on -4. At 125 points with the heads of the foe, the screaming skull catapult is a steal, and only sharp competition for points (particularly rare points for a normal tomb kings army - you can't take a catapult with the heads of the foe and a casket at 1k points in normal tomb kings) keeps it out of my 1000 points lists. At 2k I'd say at least one ssc is mandatory, and I'd honestly try to field two of them. They're other stuff available - snake riders are hard hitting monstrous cav, ushabti with warblades are more fragile than they look but hit like a truck so they're a great support/flanking unit for your battleline, stalkers are a neat shooty/utility unit that can strip wounds off of slow, heavily armored threats that can otherwise tank and outfight most of your units, tomb swarms I don't think are great in normal lists but in mortuary cult can be used as a battery of spare wounds to power up your spellcasting, carrion are a flying melee screen to block or redirect charges or go after shooty support units to shut them up for a turn or two. Lots of niche utility stuff that you can pull out if you find your list needs something specific. .... Putting it together: So yeah, lots of units available, but how do you put it all together? There are different builds you can go for (monster spam, chariot rush), but I like a classic infantry battleline. That just looks like an 'army' to me, which is what I want in a rank & flank game. So as an example thought experiment, let's throw together a basic tomb kings battleline style 2,000 point amry, using the default army list from ravening hordes. We need a solid battleline that can at least take a charge, if not also fight back, so I'll start with a infantry blocks of 20+ Skeleton Warriors (5 wide) or tomb guard (6 or 7 wide) - at least one such block per thousand points. Give them full command, upgrade as many of these units as possible to nehekharan phalanx if you can afford that, and maybe magic banners if you end up with even more spare points. Lets say 24 (5x5 with a character on) spearletons with light armor, command, phalanx for 169, plus 23 sword guard (6x4 with a character), command, phalanx for 282, for 451 points total so far. Next I grab the casket - the model is iconic and the buff is faction defining, especially for this sort of battleline type army. I'll deploy it as far forward as possible (or back a few inches if I think I'll need to screen against shooting). 135 for the casket brings us up to 586. Next I'll grab a bunker for my heirophant - a unit that can live behind my front line that my heirophant and any other wizards I take can drop back to before the main battle line gets stuck in. I really like skeletal skirmishers or horsemen for this, but I don't like the horseman or mounted liche priest models, so lets say 20 skirmishers for another 100 points, bringing us up to 686, and meeting our minimum core requirement at 551 core, and we can drop up to half of this squad if we need to shave points. If we end up not needing the bunker (say the opponent has no ambushers and no shooting capable of targeting lone characters near units) then these are still useful as ranged support, screens, etc. So we've got our core battleline, the casket, and a character bunker, time to add heroes. Assuming a normal tomb kings list we'll need /at least/ a tomb prince or king to be the general and a lich priest or high lich priest as the heirophant, plus I consider a BSB pretty obligatory. Starting with the heirophant, I really want a level four, and I really want the warding splint to protect them, so that's 205 points already. A king with heavy armor, shield, and royal mantle (for a 3+ save plus my will be done out to 6") is 202 points - strong enough with the default khopesh, but if we have spare points we can buy him a magic weapon. Herald BSB with silvered steel is 125. That's 532 points in characters, which is a lot. We might have to cut the king down to a prince later, which will cause item conflicts with the herald (prince has light armor instead of the king's heavy, which means only 4+ save with the mantle, so he'd want to steal the heralds silver steel instead). We'll see. We're up to 1218, and now I want to add some hammer units to countercharge in support of our battleline units. Chariots are ok at this, and iconic for the faction, so we'll start with 3 chariots with full command for 147 points, and on the other flank lets grab another iconic unit (and another impressive, faction defining model), a war sphinx. With full upgrades thats 220 points, bringing us up to 367 points special and 1585 points total. We're closing in on points now, but we've got a solid battleline with 2 anvils with characters in and 2 counter-punchunits, plus a level 4 wizard with a bunker to drop back to, and of course the casket. That's a nice solid army that should stand up well in a straight fight with another equivalent battleline, now lets grab some utility stuff. A couple screaming skull catapults with the heads of the foe is 250, two units of 5 horse archers is 110, and now we're up to 1945. With 55 points left we can give the tomb king an talisman of protection and the Tomb Guard the War Banner. And since we didn't drop any skirmishers, lets split them into 2 units of 10 so we can do more stuff with them, and finally drop the wasphinx's envenomed sting to buy the heirophant an earthing rod for some minimal protection against the worst miscast results. The finished army looks like this: General: Tomb King, hand weapon (khopesh), shield, heavy armor, royal mantle, talisman of protection Heirophant: High Liche Priest, level 4, necromancy, warding splint, earthing rod Battle Standard Bearer: Tomb Herald, hand weapon (khopesh), armor of silvered steel 23 Tomb Guard, hand weapons (khopesh), light armor, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command, war banner 24 Skeleton Warriors, spears, light armor, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command 10 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 10 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 5 Skeleton Horse Archers 5 Skeleton Horse Archers 3 Skeleton Chariots, full command Khemrian Warsphinx, 4 tomb guard crew, fiery breath Casket of Souls Screaming Skull Catapult, heads of the foe Screaming Skull Catapult, heads of the foe 2000 points on the nose, if I didn't make a mistake in the arithmetic Is that a perfect list? Not really. It's lacking magic attacks to deal with ethereal foes, and can't project a lot of damage to threaten enemy big monsters - especially fast flying ones, outside of the catapults which are fairly unreliable for that purpose due to scatter. On a purely aesthetic level, the list is lacking ushabti, which are another iconic unit that you really want to see in a Tomb Kings army - and 2x3 with greatbows would help threaten monsters at range. but you'd have to find around 300 points to fit that. The list is also lacking ambushers to threaten enemy backfield war machines, and the only monster in it is a slower, non-flying unit that operates as part of the battleline, which gives enemy cannons an easy target to aim for. I could exchange the warsphinx for a faster necrosphinx, but that would push me over the rare allowance, forcing me to drop one of the catapults. Between the two units of horse archers and two units of skeleton skirmishers I may also have gone overboard on screen/harassment units, but the former wood elf in me says those units are too useful to pass up. All in all though I think that's pretty solid as a example of the kind of stuff I'm thinking about when putting together a basic tomb kings army, and the sort of list those thoughts will tend to produce. At least when I'm not doing something weird like Chariot or Monster spam. Edited January 31 by Sception 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempak Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Hi sorry if this has been covered, I note gw says temporarily out of stock on the brettonian core starter set rather than no longer in stock or no longer available. Does anyone know if they are going to release another wave, I missed the first round went to quickly while I was otherwise engaged, and I ain't paying those dirty scalpers prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kempak said: Hi sorry if this has been covered, I note gw says temporarily out of stock on the brettonian core starter set rather than no longer in stock or no longer available. Does anyone know if they are going to release another wave, I missed the first round went to quickly while I was otherwise engaged, and I ain't paying those dirty scalpers prices. I asked my third-party retailer like a couple of weeks ago and he called GW and was told that there is going to be a restock in a few weeks. So I am expecting for it to be back anytime soon. I am waiting to buy the Bretonnia one as well. Edited January 31 by Ejecutor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 @Sception the waystalker can snipe lone characters AND characters in units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Red King said: @Sception the waystalker can snipe lone characters AND characters in units. Characters in units of 5+ get look out sir of 2+ on hits against them in the shooting phase. Unless I'm missing something the waystalker mostly just functions to force lone heroes into units, once there they're as safe from her as they are from war machines. She is very effective at sniping out unit champions, though. No look out sir there, and unlike standards and musicians other models in the unit don't replace them. Thankfully tomb kings can bring our champions back from the dead. Edited January 31 by Sception 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 42 minutes ago, Kempak said: Does anyone know if they are going to release another wave, I missed the first round went to quickly while I was otherwise engaged, and I ain't paying those dirty scalpers prices. Not just another wave, but GW confirmed that the boxes would remain as permanent parts of the range. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Gotz said: Yeah, but thats the point, all models that are made to order are mostly older minis variants of stuff that is already sold or is going to be in old world lineup. A good example is the giant. We already have a plastic giant (from ¿7th? Fantasy ed) and are going to get a retooled resin giant, the bonegrinder and made to order marauder giant I've just realised that forgeworld orc stuff is not mto, so I expect Empire and dwarf ones to be regular releases. Sorry, I think I misunderstood you. I didn't realise there was an earlier steam tank. But I should really have twigged to that the dwarf copter I remember from my youth wouldn't have been the same as the plastic one I have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzaprez Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 7 hours ago, Jator said: Not exactly what you're asking, but I'd love if the Empire had back halflings, ogres and imperial dwarfs. Not because the actual models ( I probably won't collect Empire anyway) but just for the fact they'll be there. It would feel right and properly warhammery. But I'm just a nostalgic, not gonna lie. Oh! And Eltharion on Stormwing. It's only right after we got the shaman on wyvern. I'd also love to see imperial halflings, ogres, and dwarfs again! Halflings in particular would annihilate my wallet, the rest would be hard not to add to my City of Sigmar. I bet they'd sell! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Sception said: Characters in units of 5+ get look out sir of 2+ on hits against them in the shooting phase. Unless I'm missing something the waystalker mostly just functions to force lone heroes into units, once there they're as safe from her as they are from war machines. She is very effective at sniping out unit champions, though. No look out sir there, and unlike standards and musicians other models in the unit don't replace them. Thankfully tomb kings can bring our champions back from the dead. I came here to argue with you but after reading the Waystalker and Lone Character rules carefully I actually believe you are correct now lol. The Waystalker ignores all of the targeting rules for Lone Characters only. So once they join an appropriate unit they get the normal protections afforded a hero. Honestly I felt the Waystalker was fine even if he had the ability to target heroes in units . He is expensive and even if he hits every shot he will still need at least a 4+ to wound. That really only nets to like 3ish wounds over the course of a game before armor saves. So he MIGHT get a level 4 wizard if he manages to take a shot every turn. Like you said, at best he is just a champion sniper. Really only useful if you had a big gribbly character running around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Landohammer said: Honestly I felt the Waystalker was fine even if he had the ability to target heroes in units . He is expensive and even if he hits every shot he will still need at least a 4+ to wound. That really only nets to like 3ish wounds over the course of a game before armor saves. So he MIGHT get a level 4 wizard if he manages to take a shot every turn. Like you said, at best he is just a champion sniper. Really only useful if you had a big gribbly character running around. FAQs might change things, in the past look out sir was explicitly about war machine hits. I agree that a (single) waystalker, while good, wouldn't exactly broken if they did bypass look out sir, though against tomb kings in particular multple waystalkers could potentially be pretty oppressive, especially in lower points games where theoretically a hero level heirophant is supposed to be a viable build choice. And players can still roll ones, look out sir isn't the same as immunity. All that said, against enemies that can't pick out lone heroes (no waystalker style snipers, no stone thrower type war machines), walking around on their own next to big units is a pretty ideal location for most wizards, so forcing them into (or behind) units, limiting their sight and potentially having to deal with being in a fighting rank, exposing them to melee attacks and potentially silencing a lot of their abilities if you tag the unit in melee, is still useful to do. It's good to limit your opponent's options. And sniping champions, even if that's all they do, is still good. Even as a wood elf player you typically will need to resort to melee combat to wipe units out and get the the victory points to win games. Taking out unit champions lets your own champions reliably absorb the attacks of powerful enemy melee characters for a round, leaving the rest of their unit, and any melee heroes of your own, free to put all their own attacks on the enemy unit even if that hero might have otherwise out-initiatived you. With your fragile melee units, a fighty lord with strikes first can otherwise be a major problem. So yeah, I still don't think waystalkers are bad. But fs look out sir does apply - and I can't see anything in the text that says it doesn't - then they're *a lot* less powerful than people were thinking at first glance. Edited January 31 by Sception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Doesn't it make sense for GW to pre-produce a certain amount of stock even for a planned Made To Order release? The last MTO release I participated in was the limited edition Vampire Lord, and they had clearly pre-produced a fairly significant amount of them at the time. Oh for sure, although my first thought regarding MTO is that they normally come in standard white Citadel boxes rather than ones you might see on a shelf in a retail environment. (Although I understand that MESBG MTO has been like this for a while) so perhaps not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavieth Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) On 1/31/2024 at 7:49 AM, KingKull said: This trio of dwarf thanes The one on the left is my all time favorite dwarf sculpt GW ever produced. Edited February 1 by Lavieth 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 38 minutes ago, Lavieth said: The one on the left is my all time favorite dwarf sculpt GW ever produced. Same! I really need to scour ebay for that one at some point 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKull Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 18 hours ago, Sception said: Tomb Kings Mortuary Cult (out of Arcane Journal: Tomb Kings) 210 - High Liche Priest, Level 4, Lore of Necromancy, Warding Splint*, Earthing Rod 163 - 23 Skeleton Warriors, light armor, spears, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command 70 - 14 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 147 - 3 Ushabti, greatbows 200 - Necrosphinx, envenomed sting 75 - Tomb Scorpion, ambushers 135 - Casket of Souls *option from Arcane Journal: Tomb Kings Characters.......210 points - 21% Core...................380 points - 38% Special..............275 points - 27.5% Rare...................135 points - 13.5% Total................1000 points Does this forum still have spoiler blocks? Didn't there used to be an eyeball icon for that? I used it in my previous post, but it's not there now... I'm going to try and sblock the in depth explanation and example tomb kings army building thoughts, if it doesn't work I apologize for the overly long post. EDIT: there it is, the option just disappears if I'm not zoomed far enough out I guess. Reveal hidden contents I went with mortuary cult because it allows my heirophant to also be my general, which bypasses the usual requirement to field both a monarch and a priest in the same army, which in turn makes it easier to afford the level four at 1000 points. A level 4 wizard is highly effective at shutting down bound spells and regular spells cast by lower level support wizards, plus the higher caster level on a lich priest especially makes him more effective at healing units as well. The Warding Splint from the arcane journal is, imo, mandatory for your heirophant, making them much tougher with 5+ armor and ward saves on top of their 5+ regen, without impacting casting ability. Earthing rod is very cheap and provides some protection from an unlucky miscast. I went with necromancy for theme (my tomb kings are loyal to the true lord of Nehekhara, the Great Necromancer), but there's some great spells in there. The -2 leadership hex is especially nasty if you can pull it off at a critical moment, and the spell that give himself and his unit Terror is strong enough that you might consider leaving him in the spears when it's time for combat instead of dropping back behind them. For your chosen spell, I love Incantation of the Desert Sind to help with the army's low mobility. At level four and with the casket nearby you're very likely to get it off at the 10+ casting value to affect every unit in his command range. One reasonably large block of skeleton warriors gives me something to take a charge with. They won't beat anything actually competent in combat, but they'll rarely evaporate in a single turn, letting you set up flank charges. I'll generally start the priest in this unit for a nice field of view, but shift him out if the skeletons are likely to be charged in the next turn, or if I'm going to move them out of the casket's 12" bubble of +1 to cast that turn - especially if the opponent has a level 4 dispeller. Nehekharan phalanx is great to keep them from getting pushed back, making it easier to judge how your supporting units should be positioned. Mortuary Cult Allows me a single unit of Ushabti as a core choice, so I took a minimum squad with Greatbows to provide some additional ranged support (with S6, AP-1, and Multiple Wounds they can soften up large monster targets or threaten to take small monsters like giant eagles right off the table) that can also provide a bit of counter-punch with a flank charge in support of the main skeleton block - even armed with greatbows they've still got a decent number of S4 melee attacks with AP-1 for the kopesh rule). In a normal tomb kings list, I'd take a trio of skeleton chariots with command to fill more or less the same role (weaker shooting but stronger melee punch on the charge) at exactly the same points. Rounding out Core with some Skeleton Skirmishers. This is a versatile unit with a handful of different potential uses. With warbows they provide some light shooting support to chase off enemy screens, threaten eagles, & the like. Skirmish formation really helps here with 360degree vision and the ability to space them out so more can shoot. With vanguard (and chariot runners if you take chariots instead of ushabti) they can run ahead of your units to screen them from shooting if your opponent is running a lot of that. Alternatively, they can hang out behind your lines to shield the casket from ambushers, or to provide a bunker that the wizard can fall back to before combat if it isn't safe to be outside of a unit due to enemy snipers (like that wood elf hero) or war machines. If the scenario needs a unit to go stand on an objective they can also be sent to do that without sacrificing the main battle line units. You can even pay extra for ambushers (I didn't have the points spare in this list) for additional opportunities. Granted they lack a bit of the maneuverability you'd generally expect from skirmishers due to the undead's inability to march, but Incantation of the Desert Wind can make up for that. Because they can do so many different things, I try not to commit to a particular use in my battle plan, and instead decide what I need them to do during deployment. Mortuary Cult lets me take a single Necrosphinx as a special unit, so of course I do that. The model is fantastic, one of those iconic, faction-selling models. Gameplay wise, it's fast (for tomb kings anyway) with fly speed 9 and swift strider, Terror potentially forces units to flee without even engaging them and if they do hold their nerve lowers their leadership if they lose combat, which is amazing. It's pretty tough with six Toughness 6 wounds plus heavy armor and 5+ regeneration (doesn't sound like a lot if you're coming from age of sigmar, and a pair of great cannons will admittedly chew through it pretty fast if you let them draw line of sight, but small arms fire & non-great-weapon melee units will have a real hard time scratching it) and hits fairly hard with 5 Ws4 S5 Ap-1 attacks with killing blow, plus one extra strength 10 AP-4 attack with monster slayer, plus d3+2 stomp attacks. The stinger as a cheap upgrade looks cool and lets it trade one of its normal attacks for a slightly weaker attack but with strikes first, which seems particularly useful for picking out unit champions. A necrosphinx isn't going to blend through elite anvils on its own, but it can put a significant hurt on most targets and threaten to outright kill anything. Initiative 1, but again most units have a hard time hurting it, and with M9 flying you should be able to avoid units that will just beat it. The soul reaper rule for re-roll 1s to hit against a chosen enemy character plus killing blow and that single attack with monster slayer as well means even the most powerful dragon lords in the game costing twice or even 3 times its points will likely shy away from it., but don't be fooled. Despite all that, it's really not on the level of dragon riding lords. At at 200 points though it's quite effective. Generally the idea is to position this thing for a flank charge against anything that charges the main spearleton block, but it's also quite happy to run out on its own if there's a weak spot in the opponent's line that isn't hard enough to soak its attacks or choppy enough to threaten it. In a normal Tomb Kings list Necrosphinxes are rare and wouldn't fit in the list with the Casket at this points level, so instead I'd run a Warsphinx for around the same points depending on options. Similar effectiveness at the main role of providing melee support to the spearleton block, it trades the ability to go out hunting on its own with fly 9 and swiftstrider for the option to take a decent breath weapon to soften up enemy units that get too close before combat. The one thing I will say after my first game is that in smaller games especially, depending on what units they take, your opponent just might not have the tools to fight a big monster of any sort. Check with your opponent before the game and have an alternative option in mind in case it would make for a poor play experience. By 1500 points though I'd say if your opponent can't handle a 5 or 6 wound monster that's on them. 😛 The Tomb Scorpion is there because Mortuary Cult are required to take one per 1k points, so it's obligatory. That said, for 75 points it's reasonably tough and packs a bit of a sting (har har). With ambushers it can show up from board edges to hunt war machines & shooty support units, or the priest can call it from beneath the sands to support the spearleton block or position it like you might with a giant eagle to block and redirect a charge that the skeleton block might not want to take head on. So there's a fair bit of utility to it and I don't at all feel bad about having to take one, even though I probably wouldn't have spent the points on it in a normal tomb kings list, certainly not in a smaller list like this. Finally the Casket of Souls is another of those faction-defining classic models that I just can't leave home without, so I'd field it no matter what it did in game. Thankfully it's amazing anyway, with a 12" bubble of +1 to casting rolls (including bound spells but not including its own bound spells), helping my level 4 wizard push spells through even against other level 4s. Even more significantly, it has two bound spells cast at +3, the most important one being Light of Protection, an 18" range remains in play bubble granting all of your units within range a 6+ ward and imposing a -1 to hit penalty on any attacks made against them. This is astoundingly good if your opponent fails to stop it, and toes a long way towards making up for the faction's relatively lacking armor saves. The casket also has a pretty strong magic missile which you typically don't want to cast since it shuts off Light of Protection if it's up, but it's nice to have in case Light of Protection failed to cast or got dispelled. The main drawback of the casket is that it's completely immobile - wherever you put it, there it stays for the whole game, so you may find yourself forced to move out of the 12" casting buff range or even the 18" light of protection range, particularly with your flank units or if you're fighting a castling/turtling shooty army. ..... And that's everything I'm currently running in my standard list at 1,000 points, along with the reasoning behind it. That said, there are some other important tools in the Tomb Kings arsenal worth mentioning, even though I didn't take them here. Battle Standard Bearer: tomb herald for normal or royal host armies, level 1-2 lich priests for mortuary cult, either way its the banner that's most important. These reduce wounds from crumbling for nearby units that fail combat, and that's fine and good, but the big part is that re-roll for leadership tests. With an undead army - unbreakable and immune to psychology - you might think that doesn't matter so much, but lots of things require leadership tests. Lich priest healing and calling units from beneath the sands, necrotect and tomb king buffs, these all require leadership tests to trigger. You can take a charge and be in a perfect position to heal up and countercharge only to fail your critical healing checks and suddenly be in a tough spot. At 1000 points you might not be able to fit one, but by 2,000 points imo the BSB is mandatory, at least for a typical battle line type army. Tomb Kings/Princes: one of these is required to be your general in a normal or royal host TK army, and even in a mortuary cult a tomb prince is worth taking as they're pretty tough and can hit reasonably hard. Put one of these in the front of a Skeleton or especially tomb guard unit and suddenly they're not just taking charges & maybe not crumbling, they can actually win some fights against weaker units, or hold out much longer against stronger ones, especially with a nearby priest to provide some healing. On top of being reasonably competent melee fighters, kings and princes can also buff the movement, weapons skill, or initiative of their unit, which can be a big deal. The one issue with kings and princes is a relative lack of mundane armor, so you'll want to invest your magic item allotment there. These guys can also ride chariots to run with them, and the kings can ride a bone dragon or warsphinx to become a big scary monster lord. All solid options, though I prefer to use them to add some punch to your infantry battle line. That said, there's something to be said for Tomb Kings monster spam. "matched play" limits armies to a mere 3 great cannons, and while that'll put down one monster easily it'll have trouble chewing through a king on a sphinx or dragon with a 4+ ward AND two war sphinxes AND a necrosphinx, with an obligatory heirophant holding the backfield with a bunch of archers and a casket. Necrotect: these are infantry support heroes who buff the melee ability of the unit they're in. Kind of wasted in skeletons that don't hit so hard even with extra attacks and hatred, but a tomb guard unit becomes quite dangerous. With only a couple wounds and light armor the Necrotect is pretty fragile though, so again you'll want to invest in magic armor, and that in turn can cause conflicts with your fighty heroes. Especially Princes and Heralds, as they all really want the armor of silvered steel. Still, if you can work it into the list, a big block of tomb guard six or seven wide with a necrotect next to a 5x5 block of spearletons with a tomb king (aesthetically and thematically you'd prefer to put the king with the guard and the tect with the skeletons, but whatever) is a very solid core to a battle line. Tomb Guard: Mortuary Cult can't take tomb guard, but these guys are tougher and hit harder than skeletons (given the kopesh rule I wouldn't bother with halberds, unless you just like them aesthetically), so I'd prefer to anchor my line with these in royal host and normal Tomb Kings armies, especially when you get up to normal game sizes. Chariots: units of light chariots are an iconic, even faction defining unit for tomb kings. You can take em big and put heroes in them, and they can do well that way, but you end up with a huge and somewhat unwieldy frontage which can get them charged by multiple enemy units at once, which they really aren't tough enough to take, and that fragility plus lack of impact when they're not charging has me skeptical of using them as your big central battleline unit (though the royal host's tomb guard chariots might be able to pull that off). For regular chariots, I like to keep them in units of three on the flanks for 150 points, able to chase off light cavalry or skirmishing units that might otherwise encircle your battleline, or wheel inward to threaten flank charges on anything that gets stuck in with your skeletons or tomb guard. At first impression I'm not convinced that they're amazing, but they are iconic and thematically faction defining, so I feel like you really should try to fit some in if you're able to. Skeletal Horse Archers: The humble horse archer, sadly probably the single worst looking unit in the entire tomb kings line, is arguably the best core unit available to the faction. Seriously, these should probably take up special points they're so good. Take every good thing I said about the versatility of the skeletal skirmishers, then double their movement and give them reserve move all the time without relying on a spell (and proximity to that spellcaster). Sure they cost twice as much per model, so you get half as many shots and wounds per point, but I cannot stress enough how good the movement is. They're fantastic as throw away screens, they're excellent harassment units to pick at lightly armored enemy shooting units then reserve move back behind a building to avoid return fire, they can hunt down lone stragglers of almost-but-not-quite-killed units (that enemy unit reduced to a single model that went and hid behind some terrain is still worth 75% of its starting points cost - ride your horsemen around the corner and shoot it!), and they're an excellent, maybe even the best, behind-the-lines bunker to shelter your heirophant in. The only problem is the terrible models (both for the horse archers themselves and the only available first party cavalry lich priest, which I can't believe they have the gall to charge us$45 for on made to order) - which are enough to stop me from fielding them altogether, though I will work on some substitute models when and if black knights are ever back in stock. If you don't mind the models so much, or play in a store that allows third party models (check out Lost Kingdom Miniature's Khnum Riders plus Neftari the Priestess or Seb, Headless Sorcerer) then I'd absolutely recommend at least one minimum unit of these per thousand points, and/or a larger unit of 8 to 10 as a bunker for your heirophant. For command get the champion if you can spare the points or are bunkering a liche priest in them, but don't take the standard or musician. You won't win or even tie melee combats with them regardless, and the banner especially is just offering free victory points to your opponent. Screaming Skull Catapults: Tomb Kings have some fantastic rare units. I've already sung the praises of both necrosphinxes and caskets of souls, but do not overlook the humble bonapult. Table spanning range, indirect fire, and fairly significant damage on the center hole - forcing wizards to actually join units instead of just skirting around at their edges and potentially smashing enemy war machines that threaten your sphinxes & chariots. Additionally, units that take ANY unsaved wounds from an ssc must take a panic test, which can chase unlucky units off the field before the game's even properly started. All of that doesn't even touch on the main thing you take this unit for - With the 'skulls of the enemy' upgrade any enemy units near where the template lands - even if it hits nothing at all - suffer an automatic -1 leadership penalty that lasts all the way until your next turn. This is HUGE. Many hero abilities only work on successful leadership tests, the penalty applies to terror, fear, and panic tests (including those caused by the ssc itself), and it stacks with other penalties to leadership. With the necromancy hex, terror, and an ssc penalty you could potentially be forcing break tests for failed combat on -4. At 125 points with the heads of the foe, the screaming skull catapult is a steal, and only sharp competition for points (particularly rare points for a normal tomb kings army - you can't take a catapult with the heads of the foe and a casket at 1k points in normal tomb kings) keeps it out of my 1000 points lists. At 2k I'd say at least one ssc is mandatory, and I'd honestly try to field two of them. They're other stuff available - snake riders are hard hitting monstrous cav, ushabti with warblades are more fragile than they look but hit like a truck so they're a great support/flanking unit for your battleline, stalkers are a neat shooty/utility unit that can strip wounds off of slow, heavily armored threats that can otherwise tank and outfight most of your units, tomb swarms I don't think are great in normal lists but in mortuary cult can be used as a battery of spare wounds to power up your spellcasting, carrion are a flying melee screen to block or redirect charges or go after shooty support units to shut them up for a turn or two. Lots of niche utility stuff that you can pull out if you find your list needs something specific. .... Putting it together: So yeah, lots of units available, but how do you put it all together? There are different builds you can go for (monster spam, chariot rush), but I like a classic infantry battleline. That just looks like an 'army' to me, which is what I want in a rank & flank game. So as an example thought experiment, let's throw together a basic tomb kings battleline style 2,000 point amry, using the default army list from ravening hordes. We need a solid battleline that can at least take a charge, if not also fight back, so I'll start with a infantry blocks of 20+ Skeleton Warriors (5 wide) or tomb guard (6 or 7 wide) - at least one such block per thousand points. Give them full command, upgrade as many of these units as possible to nehekharan phalanx if you can afford that, and maybe magic banners if you end up with even more spare points. Lets say 24 (5x5 with a character on) spearletons with light armor, command, phalanx for 169, plus 23 sword guard (6x4 with a character), command, phalanx for 282, for 451 points total so far. Next I grab the casket - the model is iconic and the buff is faction defining, especially for this sort of battleline type army. I'll deploy it as far forward as possible (or back a few inches if I think I'll need to screen against shooting). 135 for the casket brings us up to 586. Next I'll grab a bunker for my heirophant - a unit that can live behind my front line that my heirophant and any other wizards I take can drop back to before the main battle line gets stuck in. I really like skeletal skirmishers or horsemen for this, but I don't like the horseman or mounted liche priest models, so lets say 20 skirmishers for another 100 points, bringing us up to 686, and meeting our minimum core requirement at 551 core, and we can drop up to half of this squad if we need to shave points. If we end up not needing the bunker (say the opponent has no ambushers and no shooting capable of targeting lone characters near units) then these are still useful as ranged support, screens, etc. So we've got our core battleline, the casket, and a character bunker, time to add heroes. Assuming a normal tomb kings list we'll need /at least/ a tomb prince or king to be the general and a lich priest or high lich priest as the heirophant, plus I consider a BSB pretty obligatory. Starting with the heirophant, I really want a level four, and I really want the warding splint to protect them, so that's 205 points already. A king with heavy armor, shield, and royal mantle (for a 3+ save plus my will be done out to 6") is 202 points - strong enough with the default khopesh, but if we have spare points we can buy him a magic weapon. Herald BSB with silvered steel is 125. That's 532 points in characters, which is a lot. We might have to cut the king down to a prince later, which will cause item conflicts with the herald (prince has light armor instead of the king's heavy, which means only 4+ save with the mantle, so he'd want to steal the heralds silver steel instead). We'll see. We're up to 1218, and now I want to add some hammer units to countercharge in support of our battleline units. Chariots are ok at this, and iconic for the faction, so we'll start with 3 chariots with full command for 147 points, and on the other flank lets grab another iconic unit (and another impressive, faction defining model), a war sphinx. With full upgrades thats 220 points, bringing us up to 367 points special and 1585 points total. We're closing in on points now, but we've got a solid battleline with 2 anvils with characters in and 2 counter-punchunits, plus a level 4 wizard with a bunker to drop back to, and of course the casket. That's a nice solid army that should stand up well in a straight fight with another equivalent battleline, now lets grab some utility stuff. A couple screaming skull catapults with the heads of the foe is 250, two units of 5 horse archers is 110, and now we're up to 1945. With 55 points left we can give the tomb king an talisman of protection and the Tomb Guard the War Banner. And since we didn't drop any skirmishers, lets split them into 2 units of 10 so we can do more stuff with them, and finally drop the wasphinx's envenomed sting to buy the heirophant an earthing rod for some minimal protection against the worst miscast results. The finished army looks like this: General: Tomb King, hand weapon (khopesh), shield, heavy armor, royal mantle, talisman of protection Heirophant: High Liche Priest, level 4, necromancy, warding splint, earthing rod Battle Standard Bearer: Tomb Herald, hand weapon (khopesh), armor of silvered steel 23 Tomb Guard, hand weapons (khopesh), light armor, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command, war banner 24 Skeleton Warriors, spears, light armor, shields, nehekharan phalanx, full command 10 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 10 Skeleton Skirmishers, warbows 5 Skeleton Horse Archers 5 Skeleton Horse Archers 3 Skeleton Chariots, full command Khemrian Warsphinx, 4 tomb guard crew, fiery breath Casket of Souls Screaming Skull Catapult, heads of the foe Screaming Skull Catapult, heads of the foe 2000 points on the nose, if I didn't make a mistake in the arithmetic Is that a perfect list? Not really. It's lacking magic attacks to deal with ethereal foes, and can't project a lot of damage to threaten enemy big monsters - especially fast flying ones, outside of the catapults which are fairly unreliable for that purpose due to scatter. On a purely aesthetic level, the list is lacking ushabti, which are another iconic unit that you really want to see in a Tomb Kings army - and 2x3 with greatbows would help threaten monsters at range. but you'd have to find around 300 points to fit that. The list is also lacking ambushers to threaten enemy backfield war machines, and the only monster in it is a slower, non-flying unit that operates as part of the battleline, which gives enemy cannons an easy target to aim for. I could exchange the warsphinx for a faster necrosphinx, but that would push me over the rare allowance, forcing me to drop one of the catapults. Between the two units of horse archers and two units of skeleton skirmishers I may also have gone overboard on screen/harassment units, but the former wood elf in me says those units are too useful to pass up. All in all though I think that's pretty solid as a example of the kind of stuff I'm thinking about when putting together a basic tomb kings army, and the sort of list those thoughts will tend to produce. At least when I'm not doing something weird like Chariot or Monster spam. This writeup is absolute gold, and I can't thank you enough for it. Maybe save it in a pdf format and release it into the wild? I'm sure many more people would be extremely grateful to read something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 23 hours ago, Gotz said: I've written some stuff that contradicts what I believe are the principles that determine what gets made to order, but I want to believe XD Iconic/Nostalgic Has a profile on the army list Is not a named character Dwarves: Gotrek & Felix gyrocopter Thorgrim Bugman High Elves: "snake dragon" (Imrik) Tyrion & Teclis Griffon (Eltharion) Chaos: Two Headed Dragon (Galrauch) Slambo Harry the hammer random assortment of champions Beastman: Minotaurs Wood Elves 4th ed "snake dragon" Orion & Ariel Treemen Metal Dryads Empire Halfling Hot-pot Steam Tank Knight Grandmasters War Altar Knights Panther/White Wolf, etc.. Forgeworld stuff from Black Pass Good list! The marauder giant made me hope we could get marauder era dwarfs. The marauder longbeards or crossbowmen would be instant buy for me (and I believe many others). Archaon is probably pretty sure bet for Chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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