Warhammer - The Old World

[Noserenda]

I have a pounding headache, so im not up to checking, but are the artillery crew on new bases? Interested to see if they are models or tokens in the new rules as i prefer artillery on one base together.

 

[Public Universal Duardin]

59 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I have a pounding headache, so im not up to checking, but are the artillery crew on new bases? Interested to see if they are models or tokens in the new rules as i prefer artillery on one base together.

 

To me it looks like new bases.

[Clan's Cynic]

So is it just me who thinks the apparent return of ye olde Knights of the Realm and Men-at-Arms/Peasants makes it LESS likely Bretonnians will be part of the starter set?

It would be very strange if the whopping great "come new and old blood to start new armies" set isn't full of completely new stuff. Granted the Age of Darkness set had one 'old' unit (which was only five years old) but everything else was shiny and new.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Beliman]

6 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

So is it just me who thinks the apparent return of ye olde Knights of the Realm and Men-at-Arms/Peasants makes it LESS likely Bretonnians will be part of the starter set?

There are a few rumors about an Empire vs Orcs and Kislev vs Norsca starter box. 

I hope that the starter box follows the same pattern as Horus Heresy and it's packed with full new miniatures.

[Twisted Firaun]

6 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

So is it just me who thinks the apparent return of ye olde Knights of the Realm and Men-at-Arms/Peasants makes it LESS likely Bretonnians will be part of the starter set?

It would be very strange if the whopping great "come new and old blood to start new armies" set isn't full of completely new stuff. Granted the Age of Darkness set had one 'old' unit (which was only five years old) but everything else was shiny and new.

My money’s now on either Empire vs Empire, Empire vs TK, or Kislev vs Cathay as an option for the starter box. Honestly I hope Kislev is the second faction created/upgraded after Tomb Kings, as I’m a sucker for Bears.

[Sunshine]

7 hours ago, Noserenda said:

So they showed the core troops (Bar errants?) of one of the starter armies are all old models, which is good and bad, i quite like the old men at arms unit, (converted a lot into guardsmen) but the knights are poor. Even by 7th edition standards they were outshone by historicals. (They were on the list for a cavalry army i fancied at the time, ultimately went with Chaos warriors  ) 

Still, its nice to get an answer on base sizes! I may have a lot of dwarves to rebase, but then ultimately htye are also the army most likely to never change formation so the movement tray idea might work, got plenty of those lying around in old boxes! 

 

I am a big fan of the men at arms aesthetics too. I am glad they are returning as they were.

Re. The discussion about bases. I do feel that base sizes needed to change, as it was a struggle to rank some of the miniatures up. However, as they expect everyone to rebase their old miniatures, I wish they just went with round bases and movement trays (like ASOIAF). It would have allowed crossover between AOS and TOW, and personally I think models look better on round bases.

[Bosskelot]

Yeah this might put the rumours of the Bret v TK starter set to bed.

I think GW really should be more transparent as to what this project is even meant to be although I do think they're in an unenviable position. Devoting a huge amount of budget and production capacity to overhauling a load of old ranges for a product that doesn't even exist anymore/yet is highly risky, but at the same time they run the risk of not really drawing people back in to the game without the promise of new models.

On top of that if they're going to be selling these old ranges at the new modern prices then it's going to be an even harder sell. Back when 7th ed was coming out I was going to make an Empire army, until the new kits came out as boxes of 10 for the same price as the old boxes of 20. 

Of course nowadays I have plenty of disposable income and could happily spend unwise amounts on stupid plastic toy soldiers if I want because my other outgoings are minimal. But not everyone is in my situation. Not only that but the death of WHFB really did open up a lot of peoples eyes to other games and other miniature ranges to get their fix; the one thing that keeps people coming back to GW is model quality and if you're just getting the old Knight models again except this time for 50% more than they used to be then uhhhhhh...?

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Brets vs TK... It would have been a great thematic starter (the 2 extinct armies of GW coming back) but let's face it : those never were the most popular armies in tabletop, and this has also translated into TWW. 

My money is on Empire vs Chaos or Kislev vs Chaos for the starter, because 1/it's thematic 2/popular armies in both tabletop (well except Kislev) and TWW, and Kislev would allow new novelty in the starter (which is something a good starter should have imo). And Chaos would finally allow GW to upgrade those damn Chaos marauders. Can't believe this kit is still on sale ! 

Edited April 15, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Celestial Rose]

I think my enthusiasm has been lost with the update on bases, I have way to much to rebase. 
And idea of the formation is to tightly rank troops. 
the minis I found difficult I just thought where bad minis at the time anyway, and would rather them be designing them to fit on the smaller bases better to  a more natural scale. 
Just unhappy with it. 

[Sir Grimm]

Ok guys, so as expected there must be some old sculpts included in the base game as to have large portion of the community back playing from day 1. If the project turns out to be a success (fingers crossed) they will continue refreshing old sculpts and at some point all of the older armies will have a mint look. However, I think at first only metal, resin and some of the oldest plastic sculpts will be redone.

In terms of Bretonnia (as I have been heavily invested in Bretonnians for the last 12 years) this means Grail Knights, Questing Knights (confirmed) Duke (on foot and mounted), Damsel (on foot and mounted) and a centerpiece model of the King on Hippogryph are absolutely essential and will get new plastic models. There might be some additional single model releases to represent characters such as the Fay Enchantress and the Green Knight, as well as the Foot Knights that were hinted in the article. As we have seen in the latest post, the old Trebuchet resin kit is still used, so maybe the Pilgrims and the Pilgrim Reliquary will be left in resin too.  

These are just my thoughts on the matter and I am fine with their decision to bring back older kits that I personally think still hold up nicely. 

[Asbestress]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Brets vs TK... It would have been a great thematic starter (the 2 extinct armies of GW coming back) but let's face it : those never were the most popular armies in tabletop, and this has also translated into TWW. 

My money is on Empire vs Chaos or Kislev vs Chaos for the starter, because 1/it's thematic 2/popular armies in both tabletop (well except Kislev) and TWW, and Kislev would allow new novelty in the starter (which is something a good starter should have imo). And Chaos would finally allow GW to upgrade those damn Chaos marauders. Can't believe this kit is still on sale ! 

On the contrary, I think a TK vs Brets starter is still the most likely option, as these factions are the ones that have (arguably) received the most official attention (more artwork, confirmation of new models for them via CAD renders). And now once again focusing on them in yesterday's article makes this even more likely imo.

[Hollow]

I'd love to know more about how a project like this is green-lit by GW. Do they appoint a "Studio Head" and then allocate X amount of money or do they allocate X amount of resources? Like "You can create a Starter set, X number of new kits, bring back X number of old kits, and publish X number of books" or is it based more on manpower? You have this group of people, get as much out of them as you can. 

Without knowing this kind of information I am hesitant to jump to conclusions before we know more. (Although I can't deny my disappointment at the seeming lack of updates for Bretonnian Knights) We don't know if Factions are going to get their own Army book or if they will be in Compendiums. We don't even know which factions are even going to be present. (Although their statements in the past on being able to use older armies puts the potential faction count at around 20) 

Post Launch I hope we see a dedicated day for TOW on Warhammer Community. We have Heresy Thursday, how about The Old World Wednesday? 

As for the starter set, all bets are off at this point IMO. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Hollow

[The Lost Sigmarite]

2 hours ago, Hollow said:

Post Launch I hope we see a dedicated day for TOW on Warhammer Community. We have Heresy Thursday, how about The Old World Wednesday? 

There's definitely going to be pretty sustained support for TOW at launch and in the short term following launch, if 30k is anything to go by. I'm pretty sure there's going to be "phases" in the support of TOW and we're going to have a phase 1 after launch. Every GW game has had that (even Adeptus Titanicus 😁).

One big point about TOW is that my midhammer minis (Empire) will look better there than in AoS. It's personal taste there, but my old leftovers WHFB minis get blown away by AoS models, at least in TOW they will look somewhat better. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Chikout]

11 minutes ago, Hollow said:

I'd love to know more about how a project like this is green-lit by GW. Do they appoint a "Studio Head" and then allocate X amount of money or do they allocate X amount of resources? Like "You can create a Starter set, X number of new kits, bring back X number of old kits, and publish X number of books" or is it based more on manpower? You have this group of people, get as much out of them as you can. 

Without knowing this kind of information I am hesitant to jump to conclusions before we know more. (Although I can't deny my disappointment at the seeming lack of updates for Bretonnian Knights) We don't know if Factions are going to get their own Army book or if they will be in Compendiums. We don't even know which factions are even going to be present. (Although their statements in the past on being able to use older armies puts the potential faction count at around 20) 

Post Launch I hope we see a dedicated day for TOW on Warhammer Community. We have Heresy Thursday, how about The Old World Wednesday? 

As for the starter set, all bets are off at this point IMO. 

I think the major bottlenecks for GW are manufacturing and warehouse space. I remember Adam Troke saying that when he was in charge of Middle Earth he had to do some pretty serious negotiation to get warehouse space. It's why a lot of the middle earth back catalogue is made to order and it's why they introduced range rotation for AoS and 40k. They also struggle to keep popular kits in stock. When Indomitus was super popular it took time to do a second run because they had to make space for it in the schedule. 

They've recently completed new facilities but the rumour from the honest Wargamer was that the new factory couldn't draw enough power as it was on the same part of the grid as the local hospital. He does have a bit of a grudge against gw though so its hard to know if that's true. 

It is certainly the case that GW just hasn't had the storage or production capacity to add a huge number of  new old world kits to the range. That may have changed but there's certainly still pressure on gw's supply chain. You only have to look at how many kits are currently out of stock. 

 

As for the starter it would be very weird to have Bretonnians in most of the promotional material but not in the starter if there even is one. They could take a middle earth approach by having a handful of new kits in the starter but mostly old kits. 

[Asbestress]

17 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I think the major bottlenecks for GW are manufacturing and warehouse space. I remember Adam Troke saying that when he was in charge of Middle Earth he had to do some pretty serious negotiation to get warehouse space. It's why a lot of the middle earth back catalogue is made to order and it's why they introduced range rotation for AoS and 40k. They also struggle to keep popular kits in stock. When Indomitus was super popular it took time to do a second run because they had to make space for it in the schedule. 

They've recently completed new facilities but the rumour from the honest Wargamer was that the new factory couldn't draw enough power as it was on the same part of the grid as the local hospital. He does have a bit of a grudge against gw though so its hard to know if that's true. 

It is certainly the case that GW just hasn't had the storage or production capacity to add a huge number of  new old world kits to the range. That may have changed but there's certainly still pressure on gw's supply chain. You only have to look at how many kits are currently out of stock. 

 

As for the starter it would be very weird to have Bretonnians in most of the promotional material but not in the starter if there even is one. They could take a middle earth approach by having a handful of new kits in the starter but mostly old kits. 

Although these are all good points, I don't see how introducing new kits would be a bigger strain on warehouse space than rereleasing a similar number of old kits.

Imo this will be a proving period for the game with a fair amount of new Bretton and TK kits, with the future of the game depending on how well those sell [with some smaller releases probably until then mainly from FW until they see if it worth expanding upon on a larger scale or not]

[Noserenda]

It occurs to me that we might have just had a soft confirmation of new questing/grail knights, they were talking about the changed focus on heraldry and it would have been an ideal time to include the counter examples they must have painted for the studio army, but they didnt...

I quite like the last lot of Questing knights but i suspect Grail knights could do with a glow up to emphasise their more supernatural nature maybe? 

[Overread]

4 hours ago, Celestial Rose said:

I think my enthusiasm has been lost with the update on bases, I have way to much to rebase. 
And idea of the formation is to tightly rank troops. 
the minis I found difficult I just thought where bad minis at the time anyway, and would rather them be designing them to fit on the smaller bases better to  a more natural scale. 
Just unhappy with it. 

As the bases are getting larger you might not have too. As most infantry and cavalry will be on movement trays anyway just wait until the market delivers some movement trays with slots for old bases; which are bound to appear from 3rd parties very quickly once the game is out. 

Heroes and monsters might even be easily rebased by simply putting them on their current base on top of a newer larger base; or base extenders around the old base. Or if you want to rebase it at least cuts down the number of models you have to by a lot. 

[Baron Klatz]

Anyone seen Lady Atia’s insider Bob’s info on this yet?(they have a 90% accuracy on rumors so I’m partial to believing them)

• Previously shown parts should be an upgrade sprue
  
• Tomb Kings (TK) parts showcased earlier also upgrade sprue
  
• Return of the old Orcs & Goblins ( range with additional new miniatures
  
• New Orc boys, snotling pump wagon, and plastic wyvern models
  
• Plastic kit for a Bretonnian lord on a hippogriff
  
• Plastic kit for a Tomb Kings character
   

So there should be some new single models coming but surrounded by hordes of old units pumped up with upgrade sprues like in Horus Heresy.

So sounds like Hastings was on point from his early June predictions that Brets, TK and Greenskins old kits were returning with a few new plastics for easy productions before all the resin marches in for the near entirety of new releases.

Also a good spot, those are old wolf riders at the bottom of the pick.

So they’re not going to endorse the new AoS stuff when they can bank on nostalgia.(or possibly they’re one of the few kits not getting a big enough base increase to use the Snarlfangs. Good way to get people to buy some Wolf bois twice)

[Asbestress]

6 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Anyone seen Lady Atia’s insider Bob’s info on this yet?(they have a 90% accuracy on rumors so I’m partial to believing them)

• Previously shown parts should be an upgrade sprue
• Tomb Kings (TK) parts showcased earlier also upgrade sprue
• Return of the old Orcs & Goblins ( range with additional new miniatures
• New Orc boys, snotling pump wagon, and plastic wyvern models
• Plastic kit for a Bretonnian lord on a hippogriff
• Plastic kit for a Tomb Kings character
   

So there should be some new single models coming but surrounded by hordes of old units pumped up with upgrade sprues like in Horus Heresy.

So sounds like Hastings was on point from his early June predictions that Brets, TK and Greenskins old kits were returning with a few new plastics for easy productions before all the resin marches in for the near entirety of new releases.

Also a good spot, those are old wolf riders at the bottom of the pick.

So they’re not going to endorse the new AoS stuff when they can bank on nostalgia.(or possibly they’re one of the few kits not getting a big enough base increase to use the Snarlfangs. Good way to get people to buy some Wolf bois twice)

Read in nature documentary voice

And thus the circle of life begins anew, as a game ascends to mainly plastic status from Forge World, another rises in it's place.

Join us next week, where we examine the mysterious world of the Forge World release schedule.

[Baron Klatz]

The Resin must flooooow!

 

For those curious what Hastings said here’s his words several months before the Warhammer Community confirmed Brets and TK were coming 

 

“for those of you interested in The Old World project, a I can tell you that Bret and Tomb King plastic kits are going back into production, ready to be available when the project launches.”

“Only these two ranges as far as I understand, because many people mourned their loss from the new setting, and GW can make a quick $ off the nostalgia hype and have ZERO dev costs to put into getting them into production again.

As far as I understand a LARGE part of the Old World stuff will be resin.”
“No sorry, I mean the WHOLE of the Old World stuff,including the new stuff, very large amount of resin kits.”

and then after the announcement towards the end of 2022.

 

[Celestial Rose]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

As the bases are getting larger you might not have too. As most infantry and cavalry will be on movement trays anyway just wait until the market delivers some movement trays with slots for old bases; which are bound to appear from 3rd parties very quickly once the game is out. 

Heroes and monsters might even be easily rebased by simply putting them on their current base on top of a newer larger base; or base extenders around the old base. Or if you want to rebase it at least cuts down the number of models you have to by a lot. 

I want the tightly packed units, so movement tray would just make them look like full of gaps. Ether in the unit, or on the side. 
the unit profile and basing is a huge part of the hobby for me, so it’s a huge thing to suddenly change.
And if they had said it earlier I would have been more willing, but after investing in the return of the game it hit me hard.

 

just sad now.  

[Clan's Cynic]

16 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Snip

If old kits are returning, why would they need a 'very large amount of resin kits'? Pretty much everything was already in plastic before the End Times with the exception of individual Heroes/characters and the odd unit like Blood Knights.

Forge World haven't released a full new unit or vehicle in resin since the Dark Angels stuff over three years ago. I can't imagine them starting again, unless it was to re-release the Legion of Azgroh. Individual Heroes and special characters? Yeah, sure, they still put those out for 30k. But full units?

I don't know, I just don't buy it.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Twisted Firaun]

41 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Anyone seen Lady Atia’s insider Bob’s info on this yet?(they have a 90% accuracy on rumors so I’m partial to believing them)

• Previously shown parts should be an upgrade sprue
• Tomb Kings (TK) parts showcased earlier also upgrade sprue
• Return of the old Orcs & Goblins ( range with additional new miniatures
• New Orc boys, snotling pump wagon, and plastic wyvern models
• Plastic kit for a Bretonnian lord on a hippogriff
• Plastic kit for a Tomb Kings character
   

So there should be some new single models coming but surrounded by hordes of old units pumped up with upgrade sprues like in Horus Heresy.

So sounds like Hastings was on point from his early June predictions that Brets, TK and Greenskins old kits were returning with a few new plastics for easy productions before all the resin marches in for the near entirety of new releases.

Also a good spot, those are old wolf riders at the bottom of the pick.

So they’re not going to endorse the new AoS stuff when they can bank on nostalgia.(or possibly they’re one of the few kits not getting a big enough base increase to use the Snarlfangs. Good way to get people to buy some Wolf bois twice)

When they say an upgrade sprue, do they mention which unit is getting upgraded? I assume Tomb Guard but I'll just keep hoping for an actual new unit of plastic Tomb Kings. Either way, I am very happy if the rumor of old Tomb Kings kits getting remade is true, as it opens the door for me to build the army of my dreams and the potential return of Chorfs (legion of Azgorh).

[Kaleb Daark]

21 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Pretty much everything was already in plastic before the End Times with the exception of individual Heroes/characters and the odd unit like Blood Knights.....

I don't know, I just don't buy it.

 

aye.

The easiest route for them is to standardise base sizes and re-release all the old fantasy models as they will cost them nothing.  The tooling is already in place and with the increased base sizes all I read into the article was that yes there will be new stuff coming to old world, and that new stuff will be more dynamic in pose, and that a 20mm base size won't help that.

If the legion gets re-released when chaos dwarfs get released that would be amazing, as would a built to order khorne dragon so I don't have to have some snot on ebay trying to mug me off that the recast one he's got is genuine but he can't supply the box let alone the rules and story pamphlet that comes with it.

Path of least resistance is make in plastic what was resin or missing and leave the rest be.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Kaleb Daark

[Baron Klatz]

35 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

When they say an upgrade sprue, do they mention which unit is getting upgraded?

No but there’s speculation they’re upgrades for the Priests and chariot riders.

38 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

If old kits are returning, why would they need a 'very large amount of resin kits'?

Because only Brets, TK and Greenskins are the returnees and something they can show off early. Going by Hastings the other stuff like Asur and Empire will see the resin train.

That also works into your doubts about any of the first three seeing a starter release. They may be saving the actual new resin stuff for a redone Empire and it’s civil war expansions.

It wouldn’t surprise me by any means. They’re a small specialist game team working after a bunch of global problems. Easy to craft resin and old kit short-cuts would be understandable.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Baron Klatz