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AthelLoren

AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribes

Ogor Mawtribes Poll  

408 members have voted

  1. 1. What tier do you feel Ogors are pre-battletome?

    • High-tier
      24
    • Mid-tier
      179
    • Low-tier
      205
  2. 2. What kind of army will you be running?

    • Entirely Gutbusters
      30
    • Mostly Gutbusters
      104
    • Mixed forces
      182
    • Mostly Beastclaw Raiders
      70
    • Entirely Beastclaw Raiders
      22


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1 hour ago, ryanguy88 said:

+d3?   The command ability grants one.  You can stack it, so it's a bit more variable -- 

Per Frost Saber, you'd have [ 1 + Round Number + (Round Number)D3 ]+3 attacks.   Or one less than that if you're going to give the re-roll 1s to hit.

So, turn two, you could easily have 2+2d3+3 attacks per cat, re-rolling ones.  That's average of 9 attacks each, 4+ | 3+ | -1 | 1.    If you could get 10 cats in, I'd think 90 of those attacks could insta-gib a hero or monster.  (Estimated 40 wounding hits with -1 rend, 1 damage.)   

But each cat gets 1+d3  (assuming you only use CP for the Hunter CA) each round you wait.   And you're only sitting aside 320 points for this -- so yeah, I think there's something to play with there.

+d3 as in: all the cp generated from Winter Ranger would be used on it. I was thinking moreso of holding the general in reserve while everything else is on the board (deepstriked earlier than he would appear for sure). He's just a cp generator and surprise 

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Is there a chance someone would be willing to take a picture or two of their mawpot? Next to a glutton if at all possible? I'm thinking about putting together one from scratch  and just want an idea of the scale I should be aiming for. Thank you in advance!

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8 hours ago, ryanguy88 said:

+d3?   The command ability grants one.  You can stack it, so it's a bit more variable 
 

Even without the command trait you can do something very similar (or double down on the same idea) with the hunter artifact, which gives +1 save and 1 cp per turn. Not as good obviously but also Importantly frees you up to use any of the main tribes. The whole lot even with the skaal is only a few hundred points, so you can still take a ton of other stuff.

I tried this once against bonereapers and got 6 frost sabres (from a unit of 😎 into a backfield catapult with +3 attacks each... Due to some bad luck and that awesome 3+ save everywhere they did a few wounds and then eventually died off, still held them up many turns though.

One challenge you will find is getting their bases in. The hunter himself is unlikely to make the charge, and keeping everyone within 12 in to get the buff means that you are unlikely to get all 10 into contact with your target. I think 6 is more realistic.

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7 hours ago, mrgambit said:

Is there a chance someone would be willing to take a picture or two of their mawpot? Next to a glutton if at all possible? I'm thinking about putting together one from scratch  and just want an idea of the scale I should be aiming for. Thank you in advance!

 

20191205_081557.jpg

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10 hours ago, Frowny said:

Even without the command trait you can do something very similar (or double down on the same idea) with the hunter artifact, which gives +1 save and 1 cp per turn. Not as good obviously but also Importantly frees you up to use any of the main tribes. The whole lot even with the skaal is only a few hundred points, so you can still take a ton of other stuff.

I tried this once against bonereapers and got 6 frost sabres (from a unit of 😎 into a backfield catapult with +3 attacks each... Due to some bad luck and that awesome 3+ save everywhere they did a few wounds and then eventually died off, still held them up many turns though.

One challenge you will find is getting their bases in. The hunter himself is unlikely to make the charge, and keeping everyone within 12 in to get the buff means that you are unlikely to get all 10 into contact with your target. I think 6 is more realistic.

The Browplate is +1 Save and only a CP at the start of the First Turn.

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Darn... Not nearly as good then. Still not awful but not amazing. I guess you could pick the winterbite tribe and get the +1 wound artifact which helps some though, and the fight first bubble might have uses too

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So, I've heard quite a few times here that people playing Mournfangs don't like their bases because they're too big. I'm an IJ player originally.. aren't they the same size as the Gore-Gruntas? I never thought the base was annoying me. Why is this the case with Mournfangs?  Am missing something?

Edited by Jabbuk

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They are the same size bases, yes, if you are happy using Gruntas then Mournfang are very similar, though there are fewer buffs that can be stacked onto them so you ideally want more models in attacking range to actually do the damage you need.

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16 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

They are the same size bases, yes, if you are happy using Gruntas then Mournfang are very similar, though there are fewer buffs that can be stacked onto them so you ideally want more models in attacking range to actually do the damage you need.

Gotcha. A unit of 3 buffed GGs is terrifying enough. 

Edited by Jabbuk

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43 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Gotcha. A unit of 3 buffed GGs is terrifying enough. 

A unit of 3 mournfang would be less so ;)  

but it is/was also lack of speed. The mournfang were too slow to get an easy charge and no way to improve said charge. You want to overshoot it by at least 2 plus pile in to get a bigger unit efficiently in. Now it’s easier it seems. But still that too slow for their size judgement seems to linger, but maybe it’s just pre-book mentality. 
happily proven wrong though. I actually like the models and have eight of them. 

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Personally I find a lot of it comes down directly competing with Stonehorns for space. It's really hard to get a Stonehorn and 4 Mournfang into contact with a unit and units of 2 Mournfang just feel so weak

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I think it also just comes down to their warscroll. 

Sturdiness

Gore gruntas: 160 points, 15 wounds at a 4+ save.

Mournfangs: 140 points, 12 wounds at a 4+ save. 

Advantage on goregruntas for sturdiness per point

 

Damage

Goregruntas on charge: 11. 3, half at rend -1.

Mournfangs w/ clubs on charge: 7.8, half at rend -1. 

Advantage: Gore gruntas again

 

Damage buffed: 

Goregruntas, warchanter: 22.8 wounds, half at rend -1. Impressive, doesn't require a CP, buff character can still do a dance elsewhere. 

Mournfangs w/ 3 damage charge CP: 9.3, 2/3rds at rend -1. Takes a CP, and the character to buff them is 320 points. 

 

Looking at it again, the gruntas are just... stronger. I'm sure I made some math mistakes, but I don't think it would change the big picture. The mournfangs have a little extra utility in having banners, the pistol, and the reflect mortal wounds, but I don't think it changes their big picture much. It really hurts that all the buffs are on several hundred point monsters. Also, the warchanter remains incredibly strong to the point of silliness. Why isn't it a command ability like everything else?

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1 hour ago, Frowny said:

Looking at it again, the gruntas are just... stronger. I'm sure I made some math mistakes, but I don't think it would change the big picture. The mournfangs have a little extra utility in having banners, the pistol, and the reflect mortal wounds, but I don't think it changes their big picture much. It really hurts that all the buffs are on several hundred point monsters. Also, the warchanter remains incredibly strong to the point of silliness. Why isn't it a command ability like everything else?

Yeah and if not a command ability, which would be weird fluff wise, why not on a prayer roll? So there's an element of chance there. 

But ces't la vie. In the end the comparison is very interesting but sadly won't change our army selection. If you compare them to other units in the army and potential roles it does look more positive than when compared outside of the faction. But still I feel they are missing a role. Just like most cavalry to be honest. Due to their big bases, good armour save and usually not that great of damage output they end up being more speedbumps than anything else. Look at choas knights, or the khorne cavalry before the last book. 

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Mournfang got the wrong end of the stick. They're not a particularly good anvil or hammer, and they're too expensive to fit anywhere. I don't know what rotten entrails they were smoking when they thought Gargant Hackers needed only 2 attacks hitting on 4's (2 Mournfang with Hackers have an 80% chance to do 0-3 wounds against most units). I'd maybe consider them (with clubs of course) if they were a 120 pt. BCR fast-cavalry option.

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19 hours ago, Mutton said:

Mournfang got the wrong end of the stick. They're not a particularly good anvil or hammer, and they're too expensive to fit anywhere. I don't know what rotten entrails they were smoking when they thought Gargant Hackers needed only 2 attacks hitting on 4's (2 Mournfang with Hackers have an 80% chance to do 0-3 wounds against most units). I'd maybe consider them (with clubs of course) if they were a 120 pt. BCR fast-cavalry option.

Conspiracy theorist in my thinks they made Mournfang bad because the Beastclaw SCB is an amazing deal (maybe the best next to FEC) and they wanted to move more Gutbuster stuff. But that doesn't really hold true because the Glutton box is also a really good deal if you are comfy with kitbashing.

I really don't see a reason why they left Mournfang in the dark like that. And it's not something they can change with a GHB because the points are not the problem. The warscroll is.

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1 hour ago, Pitloze said:

Conspiracy theorist in my thinks they made Mournfang bad because the Beastclaw SCB is an amazing deal (maybe the best next to FEC) and they wanted to move more Gutbuster stuff. But that doesn't really hold true because the Glutton box is also a really good deal if you are comfy with kitbashing.

I really don't see a reason why they left Mournfang in the dark like that. And it's not something they can change with a GHB because the points are not the problem. The warscroll is.

How should they change then? 4 of them is 280, charging in they actually have the exact same damage output as 4 ironguts for 220 without counting the pistol. They also have more movement, more wounds per point, a tribe dedicated to them basically and also the everwinter allegiance ability to possibly deal mortal wounds in the hero phase.

When not charging they do indeed fall down to around 70% of the output of 4 ironguts, but is that not how it should be? They are faster, more durable and got possible mortal wound output in the hero phase, is that not sort of balanced? I would not call them completely... gutted. Also the hand weapons and Gargant hacker is basically identical in output against a 4+ save, better or worse saves will improve and reduce the value of the weapon loadouts respectively. It is more a question if you want to reflect mortal wounds or get 2" reach, which should not be completely discarded for its importance.

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2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

How should they change then? 4 of them is 280, charging in they actually have the exact same damage output as 4 ironguts for 220 without counting the pistol. They also have more movement, more wounds per point, a tribe dedicated to them basically and also the everwinter allegiance ability to possibly deal mortal wounds in the hero phase.

When not charging they do indeed fall down to around 70% of the output of 4 ironguts, but is that not how it should be? They are faster, more durable and got possible mortal wound output in the hero phase, is that not sort of balanced? I would not call them completely... gutted. Also the hand weapons and Gargant hacker is basically identical in output against a 4+ save, better or worse saves will improve and reduce the value of the weapon loadouts respectively. It is more a question if you want to reflect mortal wounds or get 2" reach, which should not be completely discarded for its importance.

Other problem with the attacks of +4 in a army that are bad dispelling spells is that one spell of -1 to hit dececreases our damage otpout 33% (ironguts decreases  25% but have one ability to repeat hit, wound and save rolls). We are comparing mournfang packs with gore gruntas. This orruks don't have this weakness (only 20 % if they charge or 25% without charge).

I'm happy with BCR but afer few battles i think that we have little problems that If GW wanted could solve it easily.

Edited by Sartxac

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If GW were to fix them with point changes alone I'd love to see them drop the max unit size to 8 and make them 120/400. This way they directly complete with Gluttons as battleline and it's way easier to justify running an 8 block for the mortals on a 4+. 

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A unit of 8 would take up so much board space you would never get them all into combat.  Also I don't have the math infront of me, but id be willing to bet, if your only reason for running 8 was to do mortal wounds on a 4+,  on an average charge roll of 7, you are going to get 3.5 mortals. If you used three units of 2, and charged the same target, getting 3 models in is pretty easy, and then your rolling 21 dice and you will probably get equal to 3.5 mortals on 6's 

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So, I finally got the last models picked up to pull my Ogors/BCR up to 2k. I am quite set on the folloeing units, althrough the battalion may alter. I think I will use boulderhear alligience, althrough I am not really set on which mount traits to give to which unit. If you guys have some advice, this would be awesome to hear!

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General

-propably with Ethereal Amulet
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Chaintrap
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
- Chaintrap

Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)

Battalions
Eurlbad (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

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@Charleston what's the extra command point for?

That's very similar to the list I won a 1 dayer with (drop the command point take a unit of cats). Mount trait wise I gave the frostlord Black Clatterhorn, the HoSH Metalcruncher and the HoTT Alvagr Ancient. 

I've since changed by mind on artefact and the FLoSH now gets Thermal Rider Cloak, 19" move and fly on a Stonehorn is truly terrifying and nothing gets to attack him as it's already dead.

Edited by Karragon
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8 hours ago, Karragon said:

@Charleston what's the extra command point for?

That's very similar to the list I won a 1 dayer with (drop the command point take a unit of cats). Mount trait wise I gave the frostlord Black Clatterhorn, the HoSH Metalcruncher and the HoTT Alvagr Ancient. 

I've since changed by mind on artefact and the FLoSH now gets Thermal Rider Cloak, 19" move and fly on a Stonehorn is truly terrifying and nothing gets to attack him as it's already dead.

Have quite often to play against Katakross or Kurdos, therefore I prefer to have two safe CP´s I can use for a good charge (Frostlord reroll + Husskard on SH Dmg Buff). Althrough having 2x2 Sabres seems not bad for the objective game I have to admit.

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What do you guys think about a list like this? No Tribe, but a mixed army. It gives you screen, anvil unit in 12xOgors and some movement/ambush. Do you think the Tyrant is worth it in this list or would a Butcher be better?

Frostlord on Stonehorn (400) - Ethereal Amulet, Black Clatterhorns
Tyrant (160)
Icebrow Hunter (120) - Winter Ranger, Kattarnak Browplate
20 x Gnoblars (100)
8 x Ironguts (440)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
10 x Frost Sabres (200)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
Skal (100)

2000/2000

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I’m just rambling here, but I think a relatively easy fix for Mournfang would be to give them a native +1 to their trampling charge rolls.  Let’s smaller units do mortals on a 5+, and if someone is crazy enough to run 8, then I see no problem letting them do mortals on 3’s.

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