Squatting Watch: Alerts for Discontinued Models

[madmac]

35 minutes ago, MightyMetro said:

I wondered whether we could see a new DOS witch hunter warband for WUW: Beastgrave.  

Would the Excelsior Warpriest be suitable for re release individually, or is it on some horrible mixed sprue?

The Excelsior Warpriest is packaged separately, like all the Silver Tower heroes. They'll very likely bring it back for CoS, like they did the Doomseeker for Fyreslayers.

Mind you, just like the Doomseeker you can still buy the Warpriest pretty much anywhere, there's no shortage of them floating around still in the original clamshell.

[The Golem]

8 minutes ago, Harpo2 said:

I also now wonder with the Dark Elves now being the majority Aelven faction, are the more generic Aelfs in Age of Sigmar are going to be more cut throat now.   

Honestly I really fear that the dark elves have been spared because there is still a long way before the shadow aelves will be released. And meanwhile the other elves have been removed because the light aelves and kurnothi will be released "soonish". I'm afraid the dark elves will eventually be culled too when it will be time for Malerion's aelves.

Edited August 3, 2019 by The Golem

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++ 

Just a gentle reminder, but can I just ask some of you to please stop baiting each other. It’s not we want here on TGA and points and bans will come out if it continues.

 

 

 

[kenshin620]

4 minutes ago, Aryann said:

They are not making normal Orruks the same reason you don't see peasant minis for Stormcasts. They are no longer attractive for this setup. That's the direction AoS took. Every AoS army needs a strong theme and unique units. At least that's what we are observing. 

See I agree, but this is why I am always doubting legacy battletomes like Dispossessed or Free People. Can they make everyone unique if they wanted to? Sure, assuming the new Underworld Aelves count as Wanderers and not Sylvaneth. But on the other hand they could also like double the units in KO or something.

[Harpo2]

Quote

Honestly I really fear that the dark elves have been spared because there is still a long way before the shadow aelves are released while the light and wyld aelves (=kurnothi) will be released "soonish", and that the dark elves will eventually be culled too when it will be time for Malerion's aelves.

I think they survived due to them having the most amount of base kits (dreadblades, spears, shards) and elite units (Black Ark Corsairs, Black Guard, Executioners) so they are now the baseline for Cities of Sigmar Aelves. 

[silverstu]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I remember when the initial rumours of AoS bled out regarding WHFB's squat'ing and The Bubble 'Verse (which later turned out to be the Realms). One of the plans mentioned was for a constant cycling of models every few years, so nothing was truly permanent and to 'encourage' people to keep picking up new armies and not having to commit to them long-term the same way they do for 40k.

 

I remember that too- I wonder if that is the strategy as no factions other than Stormcast are getting any real depth- no new Fyreslayer models, other factions just getting single character model.. instead of new Sylvaneth there are new Kurnothi.. but at this point I suppose we have no idea how they view the factions they created.. I think they will probably keep evolving alongside the fluff.. but I'd like to know I might be getting new Kharadrons in the future, not just new dwarf factions [which I admit I'm looking forward to]. 

[HammerOfSigmar]

2 minutes ago, Harpo2 said:

I think they survived due to them having the most amount of base kits (dreadblades, spears, shards) and elite units (Black Ark Corsairs, Black Guard, Executioners) so they are now the baseline for Cities of Sigmar Aelves. 

Actually, the wood aelve have much of its infantry and calvary untouched. Only the gladeguard is gone.

[kenshin620]

1 minute ago, silverstu said:

I remember that too- I wonder if that is the strategy as no factions other than Stormcast are getting any real depth- no new Fyreslayer models, other factions just getting single character model.. instead of new Sylvaneth there are new Kurnothi.. but at this point I suppose we have no idea how they view the factions they created.. I think they will probably keep evolving alongside the fluff.. but I'd like to know I might be getting new Kharadrons in the future, not just new dwarf factions [which I admit I'm looking forward to]. 

 

It's the Malign Portents theory that I am heavily subscribed to. I'm surprised people still doubt it,

You didn't get a MP Herald? No big unit expansion for now. Except Slaanesh but he doesnt count because hes also 100% compatible with 40k.

SCE, Nighthaunt, Gloomspite Gitz, and soon to be Everchosen/Undivided Chaos.

 

Everyone else isnt a part of that club so for now they only get a book update + a hero (sometimes) and endless spells/terrain.

Except slaanesh but I already mentioned hes a different case.

 

[Ashendant]

17 minutes ago, Harpo2 said:

I wonder if the warscrolls in Cities of Sigmar are going to be more generic sounding, like the Dreadlord on a Dragon becoming Aelven Lord on a Dragon, or Dreadspears becoming Aelven Spearmen. 

I also now wonder with the Dark Elves now being the majority Aelven faction, are the more generic Aelfs in Age of Sigmar are going to be more cut throat now.   

 

I doubt they will give them more generic sounding names, since that's specifically what they've been avoiding in the long term.

LEXICANUM

I would also like to say that I've managed to find backups of the product descriptions for the entire range of Greenskinz faction and half of Gitmobs. Sadly I wasn't able to find backups for Nasty Skulkers, Rock Lobber, Doom Diver Catapult, Spear Chukka, Snotling and Snotling Pump Wagon.

Later today I will have to check if all the shop images are stored in the Lexicanum.

[Overread]

The problem is its very clear that GW has changed their AoS plans several times in the background. The Malign Portents theory might have been valid at one point and then changed into something else. Those Untamed Beasts from Warcry might have started life as generic Marauder replacements or even the Darkoath Warband. Being digital sculpts they could easily have changed weapon heads to be more bestial/bone based and removed the shoes etc.... 

[Ashendant]

11 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

See I agree, but this is why I am always doubting legacy battletomes like Dispossessed or Free People. Can they make everyone unique if they wanted to? Sure, assuming the new Underworld Aelves count as Wanderers and not Sylvaneth. But on the other hand they could also like double the units in KO or something.

I think it's more likely is that they already went through the Legends process, being the first so everything was squatted before then.

All the other Order factions haven't gone through Legends, so now they will have 5 releases of Legends to run through.

[kenshin620]

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

 The Malign Portents theory might have been valid at one point and then changed into something else.

As far as I can tell it's still pretty valid. Yes theres the slaanesh argument but very interesting how slaanesh is 100% daemon update that fits with 40k, compared to all other chaos god releases. And Emperor's Children dont even have a book yet!

 

 

Unless Gutbusters beats out Everchosen for new units, I'm still sticking with it.

[madmac]

Just now, kenshin620 said:

As far as I can tell it's still pretty valid. Yes theres the slaanesh argument but very interesting how slaanesh is 100% daemon update that fits with 40k, compared to all other chaos god releases. And Emperor's Children dont even have a book yet!

 

 

Unless Gutbusters beats out Everchosen for new units, I'm still sticking with it.

I just don't see any relevance to the Malign Portents theory at this point.  It pre-supposes that no other faction will get a model update before Slaves to Darkness, at a point where we have at least, what, Ogors, a new death army and Kurnothi being teased and no solid indication of Slaves to Darkness yet?

More importantly, even if it were true, who cares? Once STD comes out that's it, Malign Portents cycle over and not applicable to anything.

[Harpo2]

Quote

Actually, the wood aelve have much of its infantry and calvary untouched. Only the gladeguard is gone.

Dark Elves had nothing touched, they kept their heros (Sorcesses, Dreadlord on a Dragon, Black Ark Fleemaster, Assassin), Monsters (War Hydra, Kharibdyss) and Cav (Drakespawn Knights, Dark Riders, Chariot). You could give them a battletome of their own grouping them up together again and it would not look out of place.

I genuinely thought that only the Darkling Coven units would survive (as the generic Aelf battleline) or atleast the Corsairs were getting culled but nope all Dark Elves units survived. 

 

[firebat]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I remember when the initial rumours of AoS bled out regarding WHFB's squat'ing and The Bubble 'Verse (which later turned out to be the Realms). One of the plans mentioned was for a constant cycling of models every few years, so nothing was truly permanent and to 'encourage' people to keep picking up new armies and not having to commit to them long-term the same way they do for 40k.

As happy as I was for Cities of Sigmar, I'd be surprised if they received long-term support. 

The thing is, when AoS first came out, this was fine because it was so freeform. You could have an army of undead, elves and daemons if you wanted to and it was one of the things I really liked about the game over the restrictive nature of fantasy battle. The problem is that since then we've moved back to the more restrictive army book format and needing battleline troops and the like with limited configurations and the customers have proven they are willing to pay for GW's poor planning/mistakes in re releases of army books in short time periods. I've no issue with stuff cycling if an army is really just a small battalion or unit you can slot in anywhere but as it stands it's some form of commitment that is starting to feel very much one way. I'll keep saying it, but the rules should be free and army books should be collectable art/fluff books and it would feel a whole lot less than some attempt at a p2w mobile game. 

The funny thing is in a way it's not entirely GW's fault. I have no issue using my Lion Guard or Silver Helms as something else and i've said for a while that people should just use the Dark Elf rules with High Elf models since there is a lot of redundancy there in some ways (although clearly the High Elf models are better :p). Many issues comes from players demanding stuff needs to be official and thinking they're going to get robbed of some game because the silhouette of a model isn't identical to the proper model when in reality it's going to make very little difference. 

[Overread]

I think the core problem is the 4 or 5 year timescale coupled to the lack of knowing GW's long term plans. All confused by those plans changing multiple times.  It's an issue not just for legacy gamers, but also those who got into these armies and models after AoS launched. Yes we knew some things would be lost, but its the volume of loss coupled to the lack of knowing GW's plans for the next 3 years.

 

Eg GW might be stripping out loads of those high elf models; but next year they might release the draconic aelf army with dragonhorse riders and new dragon models etc...; then in a years time after that a new wood-elf/goataelf army that has new eagle models or winged skyflying whatevers to replace them. Ergo some of the loss we see now might just be GW cleaning house in one big go to leave room for revamped ideas 

[madmac]

3 minutes ago, Harpo2 said:

Dark Elves had nothing touched, they kept their heros (Sorcesses, Dreadlord on a Dragon, Black Ark Fleemaster, Assassin), Monsters (War Hydra, Kharibdyss) and Cav (Drakespawn Knights, Dark Riders, Chariot). You could give them a battletome of their own grouping them up together again and it would not look out of place.

I genuinely thought that only the Darkling Coven units would survive (as the generic Aelf battleline) or atleast the Corsairs were getting culled but nope all Dark Elves units survived. 

 

It's an interesting puzzle, to be sure.

If nothing else, Dark Elves did have GHB rules with Darkling Covens, which is more than you could say about any of the High Elf models. There might be some meaning to that in the end.

 

[Blightzkrieg]

If you told me next week that a StD book is coming out that soups them with BoC and cuts half their ranges I'd believe you. 

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

The Excelsior Warpriest is packaged separately, like all the Silver Tower heroes. They'll very likely bring it back for CoS, like they did the Doomseeker for Fyreslayers.

Mind you, just like the Doomseeker you can still buy the Warpriest pretty much anywhere, there's no shortage of them floating around still in the original clamshell.

The excelsior warpriest was from before the final design of the gryph hound, and is on the same sprue.

It's 32mm high and 38 mm long. The gryph hound currently sold is 42 mm high and 55 mm tall (measured the first one, they are not exactly the same size, shoulderheight might be better than total height, that 23 vs 32).

I do not think they'll sell that warpriest again.

[Aeryenn]

Not worth it.

If those minis were selling good GW would never remove them. That's why they are being removed OR REPLACED (we don't know that yet) by fresh versions matching new direction of certain army. I's not the end of the word if Glade Guard will be replaced by Kurnothi archers. Same goes for Light and Shadow Aelves and maybe every other army that is suffering from unit removal.

What I'm loving is not making people uncertain of their collections or leaving them behind. I'm loving that GW is not lazy with introducing old armies the new way. In my opinion they were with DoK where there was 50% old minis vs 50% new. This time around I expect that Wanderers, Light and Shadow Aelves will be more like 20% old vs 80% new. Making those armies fresh, up to date.

However GW should have given far more time for people who wanted to comlete their collections with current minis. Like 6 months of time.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Aryann

[Harpo2]

Quote

It's an interesting puzzle, to be sure.

I think the solution to the puzzle is that Dark Elves have the largest amount of modern kits in the Aelf range and when the time came to cull GW went "Why have Swordmasters when Executioners exist" in terms of Warscrolls both are aelves with 2 handed weapons. This leads to most of the High Elf line being canned in favour of keeping the Dark Elf line since they had the most of amount of updated models and therefore the make the most coherent looking army.

Wood Elves keep going thanks to the future Kornothi plans and they probably have plans for the Phoenix Temple thanks to City of Phoenicium existing (even if it's just for the Cities book).   

That is my theory for why the Aelfs got culled the way they did.

[zilberfrid]

26 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Not worth it.

If those minis were selling good GW would never remove them. That's why they are being removed OR REPLACED (we don't know that yet) by fresh versions matching new direction of certain army. I's not the end of the word if Glade Guard will be replaced by Kurnothi archers. Same goes for Light and Shadow Aelves and maybe every other army that is suffering from unit removal.

What I'm loving is not making people uncertain of their collections or leaving them behind. I'm loving that GW is not lazy with introducing old armies the new way. In my opinion they were with DoK where there was 50% old minis vs 50% new. This time around I expect that Wanderers, Light and Shadow Aelves will be more like 20% old vs 80% new. Making those armies fresh, up to date.

However GW should have given far more time for people who wanted to comlete their collections with current minis. Like 6 months of time.

For the Freeguild general and archers, it was minus 4 days (they went to last chance to buy while already out of stock worldwide). For about half of the rest, the announcement came when they were out of stock, then it was a matter of hours for most.

It is better to inform people that you're not going to support their faction than to keep it festering, but leaving the high elves in their shattered state for four years simply isn't fair.

People had high hopes for CoS, I was sceptical because there were so many forgotten factions for such a low page count.

Madmac made a list of what was left, I edited to reflect what I think:

Dispossessed:

1. Warden King

2. Rune Master

3.  Longbeards

4. Ironbreakers

5. IronDrakes

6. Hammerers

7. Gyrocopter

8. Gyrobomber

9. Cogsmith

+ something

High Elves/Teclis elves

1. Frost Phoenix

2. Fire Phoenix

3. Phoenix Guard

4. Shadow Warriors

+ something?

Kurnothi

1. Nomad Prince

2. Wild Riders

3. Sisters of the Thorn

4. Wild Wood Rangers

5. Sisters of the Watch

6. Eternal Guard

+ Kurnothi centaurs and fauns

Dark Elves/Malarion Elves

1. Sorceress

2. Black Ark Fleetmaster

3. Assassin

4. Dreadlord on Black Dragon

5. Sorceress on Black Dragon

6. Black Ark Corsairs

7. Drakespawn

8. Dark Riders

9. Bleakswords

10. Dreadspears

11. Dark Shards

12. Scourgerunner Chariot

13. Drakespawn Chariot

14. Kharibdys

15. Hydra

16. Excecutioners

17. Black Guard

Free People:

1. General

2. Battle Wizard

3. Battlemage on Griffon

4. Hurricanum

5. Luminark

6. General on Griffon

7. Crossbowmen

8. Guard

9. Helblaster

10. Handgunners

11. Rocket Battery

12. Pistoliers

13. Outriders

14. Greatswords

15. Demigriff Knights

16. Steamtank

17. Flaggelants

+something priesty

Edited August 3, 2019 by zilberfrid

[HammerOfSigmar]

Up to now, everything seems to be out of stock except the loremaster. I really wonder why so many people just don't buy those ready to be discontinued model before GW decide to discontinue them and wait to the last moment. If there are so many people buying them previously, I don't think GW will discontinue them. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

Too bad much of the free people line is intact like the Guard. I had hoped those would go which would indicate a closer revamp to the core line of humans.. man those guys suck haha

[firebat]

Why would anyone in their right mind be buying the mess that GW had put High Elves in? Why would anyone sensible be buying armies that GW had given little inclination they were still actively supporting? Why would people be buying battle line troops that weren't available to buy except in some legacy starter set from a previous edition? Why would anyone be buying tiny factions with one unit and one character and that's all you get if you need to use those troops as battle line? Gosh it's amazing these kits weren't flying off the shelves they weren't even on to begin with. What a silly argument lol