AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

[Requizen]

12 minutes ago, Euphanism said:

It's so difficult to sit here and stare at 4 unopened Bonesplitter boxes while I wait for the book. I really want to start building but I know it's smart to wait and see how to build them out.

 

Well the bodies are all the same, so you can build them all without arms and call it a day. At least one Banner and Drum per 10 as well, regardless of weapon type.

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, Bayul said:

I don't understand your statement. Why wouldn't NH units benefit from cover against Bonesplitterz as usual? Why is this worth mentioning in this context?

Nighthaunt never benefit from cover because ethereal stops them getting the +1 to save. So a NH save of 5+ is always 5+ even in cover.

Drakfoot turns the ethereal off, this means they are effected by positive affects aswell as rend. 

So if the drakfoot unit has no rend the NH has a 5+ but as it's no longer ethereal it can now gain the +1 to save from cover giving it a 4+ save. Ironically that's better than a single 6++ so drakfoot makes NH infantry in cover more durable not less.

[Euphanism]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Well the bodies are all the same, so you can build them all without arms and call it a day. At least one Banner and Drum per 10 as well, regardless of weapon type.

That’s a good point, time to build some half-orruks!

[Dudvig]

Isn't it just that their attacks ignore ethereal?

[umpac]

8 hours ago, Dudvig said:

Isn't it just that their attacks ignore ethereal?

That is obviously the spirit of the rule, but the way it is worded the rules-as-written interpretation would be that Drakkfoot turns etheral off, which then means the target is susceptible to negative and positive alterations of their save, including cover save.

Edited September 26, 2019 by umpac

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, Dudvig said:

Isn't it just that their attacks ignore ethereal?

It explicitly states the Ethereal ability has no effect. That means the warscroll is treated as if it didn't have the ability thus removing the "no positive modifiers" aspect.

[michu]

That will definitely get errata'd.

[Dudvig]

It says ethereal has no effect on attacks made by drakkfoot.

So I'd say they still don't get cover because that's not part of the attack

Edited September 26, 2019 by Dudvig

[Kasper]

4 hours ago, Morovir said:

Sooooo...

 

Ardboyz have gone full circle - from consolidated weapons profiles with the original Black Orcs warscroll to separated profiles for the original Ardboyz and now back to consolidated profiles - did GW figure they messed up by separating them out?

I think it is to simplify things. The Maw Krusha had a bunch of attack profiles, so it makes sense to squish some of them. This applies to Ardboyz too - It was kinda annoying having to figure out how many had X, Y and Z equipment (if you mixed them).

[flamingwalnut]

6 hours ago, Dudvig said:

It says ethereal has no effect on attacks made by drakkfoot.

So I'd say they still don't get cover because that's not part of the attack

But you apply cover (and other bonuses) as you take an attack. Which is only time you ever care. So, resolving all attacks, close combat and ranged, you will then check modifiers. Since a Drakkfoot attack is being resolved, ignore Ethereal, so Rend and Cover now kick in.

Either way, I am excited for this book. Cities will have my heart and time for a while, but I started Warhammer with Orks, so they will always have my heart. Money and time willing, there will be a Great Waaagh! in my future!

[Malakithe]

18 hours ago, Dudvig said:

It says ethereal has no effect on attacks made by drakkfoot.

So I'd say they still don't get cover because that's not part of the attack

Yeah I think its fairly straight forward. Only attacks made against them from Drakkfoot would go through. Doesnt mean at all that the ability is disabled for any reason for the Drakkfoot player or Nighthaunt player

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Yeah I think its fairly straight forward. Only attacks made against them from Drakkfoot would go through. Doesnt mean at all that the ability is disabled for any reason for the Drakkfoot player or Nighthaunt player

To directly quote.

"The ethereal ABILITY has no effect on attacks made by a Drakfoot unit."

Attacks is a short hand way of saying attack sequence. Meaning that for the entire attack sequence of any attack made by any drakfoot unit. As the save roll is part of the attack sequence the ethereal ability, which prevents both positive and negative modifiers from being applied, is ignored. Hence they can now apply bonuses to save if they would gain them.

Additionally, no where does it state that nighthaunt units cannot gain cover. If a nighthaunt unit is wholly within a piece of terrain then it has cover. So when it is subject to attacks, at the "save roll" portion of the attack sequence, it has cover. As such it gains +1 to save. However, the ethereal ability is then applied and all positive or negative effects are ignored. So it functionally doesn't gain the cover save it IS in cover.

Example. If the Hysh realmscape feature which grants -1 to hit for units in cover is active, then a nighthaunt unit in cover is at -1 to hit.

Hence when the ethereal ability is ignored the unit, which always had cover, is now able to gain the +1 to save from being in cover.

[PC Veteran]

Perhaps you could say the cover is not a Drakfoot unit. So the ethereal ability is still being applied to the cover.

[Sleboda]

This reminds me of the old Stone Troll vs Fireball argument. They had something called Magic Resistance. This ability gave them a form of protection from magic attacks.

So, a wizard casts Fireball at the troll. The ability kicks in. Right? Not according to some folks! You see, the wizard used magic to summon the fire and move it toward the troll, but the fire is real fire, so the Magic Resistance doesn't help.

 

Or so those on that side of the discussion argued.

The rest of the universe gave the troll his MR.

If the attack is from a Drakfoot unit, you do not apply the Ethereal rule when making that attack. An attack involves a lot of stuff, including cover modifiers and others. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Sleboda

[Aelfric]

On 9/26/2019 at 7:06 PM, Euphanism said:

That’s a good point, time to build some half-orruks!

Are they similar to Hobgoblins?

[Pitloze]

If the ethereal effect gets nullified it means they do get bonus from cover.

[umpac]

Don't know if this has been brought up but looks like the website updated the Bonesplitterz and Ironjaws to be under "Orruk Warclans" now. They also have their updated warscrolls! Ardboyz keeps their shields but only 2 out of every 5 carry them. 

 

[Batch]

What did they do to Gordrakks Command Ability....

[robotnik_taco]

So at first glance, ironjawz got nerfed across the board and bonesplitterz got a bunch of little buffs. Hope them allegiance abilities are stellar. Poor gordrak, poor weirdnob

[Batch]

5 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said:

So at first glance, ironjawz got nerfed across the board and bonesplitterz got a bunch of little buffs. Hope them allegiance abilities are stellar. Poor gordrak, poor weirdnob

I bought a Mawcrusha last week in anticipation for this book. I thought theyd keep his one unique trait and make some slight changes, not utterly butcher him. I got burnt...

[AlmGandix3]

Can anyone open the arrowboys PDF on the new zeland site?

[broche]

2 hours ago, robotnik_taco said:

So at first glance, ironjawz got nerfed across the board

How they are nerf?

[PlayerJ]

1 hour ago, AlmGandix3 said:

Can anyone open the arrowboys PDF on the new zeland site?

the url was leading to a nonexistent page
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos_orruk_arrowboys_eng.pdf
this is the right one

[Malakithe]

Bonesplitterz got good melee profile buffs across the board it seems. IJ got...streamlined. Some improvements, some strange choices

[swarmofseals]

We really don't know what was buffed or nerfed until we have the entire book in front of us, but just looking at the warscrolls aside from allegiance and point changes, I don't think it's fair to say that IJs got nerfed overall. It's definitely a mixed bag.

The Weirdnob Shaman is probably the clearest nerf with the loss of the casting bonus. The other major nerf, so to speak, is the way the command abilities were changed. Rather than stacking an absurd number of different sources of bonus to attacks, the three command abilities all provide the same reliable +1 hit with no ability to stack. It certainly does make Gordrakk stand out a bit more though as his CA is now simply a better version of the Megaboss one as opposed to a once per battle gimmick. The Gordrakk/Maw Krusha melee profiles are slightly different, and destructive bulk is a bit worse but overall the changes are relatively small.

Brutes are also probably a little worse. The klaw boss lost a little damage, and Duff Up Da Big Thing is probably a bit worse now as well.

There are a number of clear buffs though. The most obvious one is the Warchanter, which is absolutely crazy now. Adding +1 damage to a unit of Ardboys or Gore Gruntas is absolutely ridiculously strong. The previous bonus  of +1 to hit is typically a 25%-33% boost to a unit's damage output. +1 damage on any unit with a damage characteristic of 1 is a 100% boost to that unit's damage output. So yeah, the Warchanter is now dishing out one of the most powerful buffs in the game and it can't be countered and can't fail. 

Gore-Gruntas are also improved.  Before, a unit of Gore-Gruntas would deal an average of 8.91 rend weighted damage, or 11.91 when making an 8"+ charge. Now choppas do 10.68 rend weighted damage when not charging and 13.02 when charging, while gore hackas do 8.91 when not charging and 14.57 when charging.  That's strictly better, and there's no longer any reason to attempt long charges.

Ardboys are also nearly strictly better. The new weapon profile is not just simplified, but it averages more rend weighted damage than any of the old weapon profiles. And now you get to take 40% of your unit with shields without losing any damage output. Not counting the boss bonus (which is improved on the new warscroll), the new scroll gives you 18.22% more offense and 8% more defense than an offense-optimized unit of ardboys using the old scroll.