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darranh1

Units not in GHB19 or Battletome still ok to play in tournys?

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The Guardian of Souls with mortality glass is no listed in Nighthaunt battletome or the GHB19 but GoS with lantern is.  The battletome does mention his temporal translocation spell but the GoS battlescroll doesnt have it.

As it was only out last year as Darrakar does this mean it has never been able to be used in tournaments?

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Ask the tournament organizers 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, chord said:

Ask the tournament organizers 

Literally always the answer for any questions about tournaments.

I guess if you want a default take a look at the new section on pitched battle templates (or whatever it’s called) in ghb19.

I don’t think it says anything helpful to your question.

Edited by svnvaldez

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IT should be allowed as long as you have the darrarkar warscroll

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Actually the Guardian of Souls with mortality glass  was never part of the generals Handbook, after it was a store birthday miniature.

Asking the organizer should be a good idea, but I think it could follow the same rules as the Errant-Questor from Warhammer World.

Quote

Q: I have a Stormcast Eternals Errant-Questor from
Warhammer World. The model’s warscroll includes a Pitched
Battle profile, but it doesn’t appear in the General’s Handbook
2018 or any of the official army building apps. Can I use it in
a Pitched Battle game?
A: Yes.

 

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On page 3 of the pitched battle profile booklet it states: "only units the are included in this book  , or that have a later publication date, can be used in a pitched battle game without your opponent's consent". Sounds pretty clear to me, some profiles have been discontinued

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This also applies to the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars, who is not listed in the GHB 19 booklet but is still present under Matched Play in the app.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Paniere said:

On page 3 of the pitched battle profile booklet it states: "only units the are included in this book  , or that have a later publication date, can be used in a pitched battle game without your opponent's consent". Sounds pretty clear to me, some profiles have been discontinued

Thank you. I did not see that section on first read.

TO can always modify the rules... even says as much in bold on pg 70 but in "Default AOS" this is spelled out clearly on pg 3 of the booklet under OFFICIAL PITCHED BATTLE RULES.

Edited by svnvaldez

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7 hours ago, CJPT said:

This also applies to the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars, who is not listed in the GHB 19 booklet but is still present under Matched Play in the app.

You can use the Summoner on his own. Only the Familiars can’t be used.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Paniere said:

On page 3 of the pitched battle profile booklet it states: "only units the are included in this book  , or that have a later publication date, can be used in a pitched battle game without your opponent's consent". Sounds pretty clear to me, some profiles have been discontinued

Its a ROTTEN move by GW.

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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21 hours ago, CJPT said:

This also applies to the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars, who is not listed in the GHB 19 booklet but is still present under Matched Play in the app.

Wait, we can't use familiars anymore?

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1 hour ago, the_master288 said:

Wait, we can't use familiars anymore?

According to the letter of the law, no - they're not listed in the Pitched Battle profiles booklet. However, they're still in the app - hence my confusion.

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1 minute ago, CJPT said:

According to the letter of the law, no - they're not listed in the Pitched Battle profiles booklet. However, they're still in the app - hence my confusion.

Great.....................  That makes me super excited to upgrade 😕

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It should only be a problem for you if you are primarily a tournament player.  Otherwise you can houserule that they are still usable, and if you are using narrative or open play its not an issue at all.

Herein lies the issue with tournament rules trying to also be casual rules.

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5 minutes ago, CJPT said:

However, they're still in the app - hence my confusion.

Don't be too confused.  The app is never the arbiter of what is legal or not for Matched Play.  It is the Digital team's best good-faith attempt to follow the rules, it is not a rule source itself.

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The Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars discussion is a hot topic over in the Tzeentch section. 

I think its pretty straight forward: The Gaunt Summoner with familiars is not in the Pitched Battle Profiles, therefore it is not legal for matched play. 

The only real argument against this is if you consider Warscroll Builder/Azyr a "publication".  I do not. 

I know this is heresy as a Tzeentch player, but I always felt like the version with Familiars was kind of an oversight anyway. It was literally just a better version of the Gaunt Summoner for the same cost. 

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Another thing worth mentioning is that Legion of Grief and Lethisian Defender is not listed in the GHB pitched battle profile, so is it really legal to use those allegiance? I can find them in the warscroll builder though. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Another thing worth mentioning is that Legion of Grief and Lethisian Defender is not listed in the GHB pitched battle profile, so is it really legal to use those allegiance? I can find them in the warscroll builder though. 

Allegiances never have pointvalues and you would basicly see the same points for Legion of Grief as you see in the sections

  • Nighthaunt
  • Deathrattle
  • Deathwalker
  • Deathlords
  • Deathmages

And in case of Lethisian Defender

  • Stormcast Eternals
  • Fyreslayers
  • Kharadron Overlords
  • Idoneth Deepkin
  • Excelsior Warpriest (Devoted to Sigmar)

So we would basicly have 10 more pages without any additional content because it is a copy & paste of 10 other tables, wasting space that can't be used for other content.

 

And to refer the Errant Questor I mentioned the FAQ above. He was released in 2016 and GW still stated in the FAQ that he can be used in Pitched Battle in 2018, without having a Pitched Battle Profile in any of the Generals Handbooks. I think, GW can't put limited miniatures/battalions into a Generals Handbook, and because of that we can't find the Errant Questor, Guardian of Souls with mortality glass or any 2 player box Battalions in the Generals Handbook.

 

10 hours ago, Landohammer said:

The Gaunt Summoner with Chaos Familiars discussion is a hot topic over in the Tzeentch section. 

I think its pretty straight forward: The Gaunt Summoner with familiars is not in the Pitched Battle Profiles, therefore it is not legal for matched play. 

The only real argument against this is if you consider Warscroll Builder/Azyr a "publication".  I do not. 

I know this is heresy as a Tzeentch player, but I always felt like the version with Familiars was kind of an oversight anyway. It was literally just a better version of the Gaunt Summoner for the same cost. 

The funny thing about the Gaunt Summoner is, that the Model without the Familiars was the official release in the Battletome Disciples of Tzeentch. The Model with Familiars was only a White Dwarf release for the Model when Silvertower was released.

Edited by EMMachine

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6 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Another thing worth mentioning is that Legion of Grief and Lethisian Defender is not listed in the GHB pitched battle profile, so is it really legal to use those allegiance? I can find them in the warscroll builder though. 

And forbidden power endless spells/mercenaries . I think there will be a difference between the GH and what TOs do but “default AOS” seems to be GH19, Corebook with realms, and MS...

Says as much in #1 of pg 70 of the GH19 PITCHED BATTLE TOURNAMENTS. 

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I don't see a problem. I for one would always give my consent if my opponent wanted to use an old warscroll.

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Yes you can use it. There is a specific faq that covers scrolls that are released with thier own points allowing it

Screenshot_20190625-073810.jpg

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It seems all of Gitmob has been removed as well. I typically play them in tournaments.  So to be clear based on the Q&A, I can use them using the 2018 pt values?

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@GoddammitGary

Yes but this would have filled the "later publication" clause since FAQ's are definitely  publications. Additionally this very specifically applies to the Errant Questor and wouldn't necessarily apply to other models. 

Hopefully the incoming FAQ in July will address this (and all other) issues. 

I for one am kind of hoping they retire the GS w Familiars. Its in nearly every Tzeentch list and the model is difficult to procure.  Also the model itself is a bit confusing since its 5 models that effectively act as 1 and its OP to boot. So its just a lot of trouble altogether lol. 

 

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1 minute ago, Raging_Moose said:

It seems all of Gitmob has been removed as well. I typically play them in tournaments.  So to be clear based on the Q&A, I can use them using the 2018 pt values?

RAW: You cannot use models that are not in the Pitched Battle Profiles 2019. 

Though make sure you check the "Destruction" section. Sometimes legacy stuff is stripped of key words and dumped to grand alliance (aka some older woodelf units losing wanderer keyword)

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Raging_Moose said:

It seems all of Gitmob has been removed as well. I typically play them in tournaments.  So to be clear based on the Q&A, I can use them using the 2018 pt values?

It's not about stuff being removed. Models like the Errant Questor and the Guardian of Souls with mortality glass only had pitched Battle Profiles in there Box because the first one is only sold on Warhammer World and the second one was a miniature that only could be bought once a year per Games Workshop (on the day that is stated as Store anniverary).

(Okay that could basicly a point for not using them in tournaments because many players don't know what the model does after you basicly need a box of it to get the rules. The Guardian of Souls is the wierdest case because his ability is even mentioned in a Battalion in the Nighthaunt Book, but they didn't print the warscroll into the book that uses the ability).

19 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

RAW: You cannot use models that are not in the Pitched Battle Profiles 2019. 

Though make sure you check the "Destruction" section. Sometimes legacy stuff is stripped of key words and dumped to grand alliance (aka some older woodelf units losing wanderer keyword)

They aren't in the Destruction section either. It's quite strange that they removed the Gitmob Grots from Pitched Battle while Greenskins are still playable (even though there models vanished from the shop basicly at the same time.

Edited by EMMachine

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