GoddammitGary

My ship is called the "HMS Kitchen Sink"

This is correct. Gws own faq shows that a set up is never a retreat. All the wording does is shows that you can do either if eligibile.....retreat and shoot (and there by stay in three for objective scoring for eg) or ...fly high and still shoot and and charge but you have to be 9 away and can't go near terrain or objectives

Apologies

"if all our units are equally unviable then that is internal balance. By freaking definition bro. " Do you even read responses before spouting off. I litterally said the KO choices are tied to a battalion/combo. So those units are the viable ones. A very small number of scrolls that can go in that battlion and carry that item...that it LITERALLY ****** internal balance...cos your ALWAYS incentivised to take a SMALL portion of the book over EVERYTHING ELSE "just at a crappy power lvl COMPARED TO OTHER BOOKS. " Also I never said this and have activly said otherwise. I think it CAN be competitive..but ONLY by taking a very SMALL cross section of units /tome choices. That is by definition, ******, internal balance. I also never said it was full of garbage units. But incentives and synergies that only benefit a very few. Please READ what people say before arguing the toss The book is bad! You can make a good list however ! It is made from a narrow sliver of the book , meaning the internal balance it shot to ******! So long as you don't mind having a one trick pony list you can do well..even have fun ...but do not confuse that with having a well thought out book that allows diverse builds or indeed expect your opponent to have fun as you spin down the ONLY path the books allows you to play the game in anything approaching a even playing field with everything else ...they fact that is forces you down this path with janky anti synergies and exceptions is another reason it is BAD and has ****** internal balance. I do not know how plainer that can be explained.

Sorry. The new books riddled with traps . I suggest more than ever that with KO you do your homework and even proxy a bit to try things . It is not a beginner friendly book. It's barely intermediate friendly. I've got a few fun lists and one good one but the process of making these lists was not a fast or intuative process like say for eg the cities book

I know EXACTLY what it is. And ko have LESS because they have LESS viable units...because of the reasons I stated... Petrifex while powerfull at least let's you use all the units. Being tied to a Battalion/item combo reduces to what ever fits in that very narrow combo. So while obr internal balance isn't amazing ...they at least get to use (competetivly ) all thier scrolls...KO internal balance is junk however.

I'd agree with 96% of that. There is a list I'm sure of it....A good one..I'll be trying it at heat 1 this weekend. But. It's litterally a tiny tiny small sliver of the book . Once you find it it's almost silly how the whole book seems to funnel you to it. And if gw don't like it , it will get an errata and we're back to khrons list which I think is s solid 3/2 list or 4/1 piloted by a good player on a good day ...

I'd argue the internal balance is worse than obr. At least in obr once you cracked the code (petrifex) you can put almost what you want into it ....with KO when you crack the code it's a battalion /general choice which limits what models you can even pick in the first place...let alone items etc. List building discussions slowly devolve into which list you like best. The one I'm taking this weekend or the thunderer version....everything else is just tiny variations of a theme. That's not choice. That's a straight jacket

Hobson's choice lol. Or "Do you want a kick in the balls, a slap in the face or a tenner" that kinda choice... The one where it's not really a choice at all ..

It's very firmly bad rule writing.... ..or maybe not writing per say. But tome construction. Individualy a lot of the rules are cool/fine. But then the whole book had someone go through it adding restrictions and provisos which make it s ball ache to read /digest/ make lists with. As I said before..and I have no idea how the person didn't get this point ; The lists you end up with are good and fun The process you go through to get to this (same) list are utter garbo/ frustrating/ full off dead ends for no good reason It's like someone faq nerfed the book before it went to print and it reads very very badly

Unfortunately in every game I play the 10 arks i am forced to take die in a blaze of mediocrity. I'd much rather use the spare points and get a decent screen like Merc marauders or something from allies. But Thier a clunky battalion requirement and serve the singular purpose of speed bump that could easily have forfilled by almost any other chaff in the game better ...but low drops are important...so there they are.....

This guy gets it

100% disagree. Having bad options is worse than only one option. You don't feel cheated by a Ill thought out book with the later. I know exactly what choices are and I'm forced to make the same ones each time I write the list cos the options are so bad. ALL my lists look similar because the alternatives are just hampering yourself ..and I don't even mean competetivly...just simplistically. I'm fed up thinking I've seen a cool thing to try to once again hit the road block of; Once per game Not while in a garrison Can't do that cos your item /CT is auto chosen. The books a cluster ****** of bad decisions and anti synergistic writing that activily works against the reader having fun. Sure once youve written the list it's fun to play .but let's not pretend trying to make a list in the first place is anything but a chore and the illusion of choice.

And you don't want to use 4/5 of those battle line options. You have to make a decision very early on with your list design on weather you want your list to suck or have rigger/hauler battle line.. and then to access these two you limit your army options way more than you did in the last book (while fitting it in to a reduced pool of battalions).... ...there is a reason most lists look almost identical and it makes me very sad.

There are some very common lists that you just can't go second Vs currently. Doesn't matter how much you castle up with your sub 100 wound army. KO need first turn choice or thier boned quiet a lot of the time. And personaly I found more variance in the old book (eventually) Current list build paths are stagnant a week in to the book... ... which is not to say I'm not enjoying using the army or two I managed to mine from this atrocious book. Cos I am - there's some very fun mechanics and a powerful list. But the process of making said list after only a week is dull dull dull dull

I think if I had to guess that no low drop Battalions hurt him. Its another reason I find the KO list building very restrictive. You need low drops. No it's or buts...even if your going to give it away..you need the choice. So X battalion plus y battleline fitted in 1/2 balloons plus or minus thunderers and endless spell. 200 PTS to garnish and pretend the list is your own......

*"Woop ...there it is...."*

I'll have a stab

I'm using ad mech.

I'm actually selling a load atm. I have about 35/spare after making 40 long beards from the kit

See above . Yea. Clad ATM. But frigate is finally at a spot where it doesn't feel over costed now

I took: Khemist. Fleetmaster. Thermal rider Khemist Incantor. Dais 3 X10 arks with hooks 9 riggers 2 grapnels 9 riggers 3 drill 3 volley Ironclad. Endrins Ziflin No trading

Yes you can use it. There is a specific faq that covers scrolls that are released with thier own points allowing it

Yes.. corner stone to most of my lists . When you throw maybe 3 or 4 volley wounds in too and no trading then that's a dead dragon or blood thirster .. or something. Then the rest of the army may hoses through an important squad or even two ... Then you charge something with grapnel riggers .. The army plays by choosing the range at which you wish to play. To do that you need a credible ranged rhreat. Drill cannons are that.

It's ok. Two of the horsemen of the impending battle tomes have been spotted. Gw employees and playtesters are buying and building KO. And they have a shadespire team... There is also the distant rumblings of all the ko art in the new expansion. If I was a betting man I'd say we had a book before the year end