The Rumour Thread

[Skreech Verminking]

13 minutes ago, stato said:

This gets brought up a lot, im pretty sure GW staff are not ignorant of the opportunity, but its not appeared yet so they obviously decided their efforts (in terms of what has been released to date at least) will yield more profit elsewhere.  If people really want that type of battletome they need to email GW and show them there is a market for it.

O god, looks like I’ll be busy tonight 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[stato]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

O god, looks like I’ll be busy to night 

Just remember, dont use the words Meta, Bretonnian or Tomb-Kings, as it will then just go straight to their spam folder 😁

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, stato said:

Just remember, dont use the words Meta, Bretonnian or Tomb-Kings, as it will then just go straight to their spam folder 😁

No don’t worry I’ll only whisper-write the name skaven 1313times.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Nos]

54 minutes ago, flamingwalnut said:

I agree that the general idea of focusing on new stuff is more profitable. BUT, time and money ARE key and making just a battletome for older armies costs a LOT less than an entire new army. AND, it will make players who would never have even looked at those old factions suddenly take interest, so they may not sell new models to the old players (but they might still pick up some more anyways, to flesh out their now supported army) but people starting that army will buy a lot. Just look at Legions of Nagash and Beasts of Chaos. I would bet they made their money back and more by selling their battletomes and old stock that was sitting around. And I bet they can churn out a half dozen of those books in the time it takes to make 1 Idoneth Deepkin.

It’s not just about initial cost it’s about return of investment and profit. The profit and return of investment is going to be very low on the things you say. 

Bottom line- there’s a reason they’re not doing these things that seem obvious to the community.  If a simple cheap idea was going to make them a lot of money they’d obviously  do that. The fact they haven’t suggests that it’s not as simple or straight forward as people are saying it is.  The company with all the information  about purchasing habits and excess stock has decided not to do it. There will be a reason behind it other than just because they haven’t realised something obvious.

[michu]

New information about Slaanesh harpist rules!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/12/wrath-and-rapture-the-daemons-of-slaaneshgw-homepage-post-1/

Edited December 12, 2018 by michu

[flamingwalnut]

9 minutes ago, Nos said:

It’s not just about initial cost it’s about return of investment and profit. The profit and return of investment is going to be very low on the things you say. 

Bottom line- there’s a reason they’re not doing these things that seem obvious to the community.  If a simple cheap idea was going to make them a lot of money they’d obviously  do that. The fact they haven’t suggests that it’s not as simple or straight forward as people are saying it is.  The company with all the information  about purchasing habits and excess stock has decided not to do it. There will be a reason behind it other than just because they haven’t realised something obvious.

???

As far as I see they have 4 books down that are exactly like this (Bonesplittas, Beastclaw, BoS, LoN) and several AoS armies that were built off of old stock that had models added to it. (Ironjaws, Sylvaneth, DoK, etc.) Can't imagine them stopping either trend.

I may be coming off wrong; I have no illusions that they will just pour out every suggested Battletome in the next year. It does make sense to spread things out, they have plenty of material and time. I was only suggesting that saying doing battletomes for older armies isn't a silly thing that will never come. It already has and it is reasonable to expect more at SOME point.

Edited December 12, 2018 by flamingwalnut

[Popisdead]

57 minutes ago, flamingwalnut said:

 Just look at Legions of Nagash and Beasts of Chaos. I would bet they made their money back and more by selling their battletomes and old stock that was sitting around. And I bet they can churn out a half dozen of those books in the time it takes to make 1 Idoneth Deepkin.

This is an interesting point to think about.  I don't think BoC sales were as ever as bad as Bret/TK and it was an army aesthetically people latched onto and a project worth doing. While a tournament meta probably sees BoC a struggle, the book on the whole was in the direction people have wanted for 8+ years.  Even the low level staffers have commented at Manager Meetings the higher ups are impressed with AoS 2.0 and BoC selling better than initially projected.

Lets translate this to say, Wood Elves.  Combine Wanderers and Sylaneth and put the Waywatchers and Wardancers back in even as finecast.  All they need is a Wanderer books with some mechanics to allow Sylvaneth to be mixed in much like Brayherd and Warherd.  Add some modified allegiance, item, magic tables and you may see sales like Wood Elves generated in 2005.  GW is even hinting at the old Orion/Ariel lore in the core rulebook (please also don't respond with "yeah but Alarielle hates the Wanderers blah blah"). 

I understand "we want new AoS aelves" as KO and IDK are genuinely really refreshing armies to see and the way AoS allows lore to be built is enjoyable for hobby, gamer and lore enthusiasts.  But GW could do better, retconing their own "clean slate" idea with AoS and toss more support on the "back into AoS bandwagon" resurgence that is going on right now.

[Nos]

8 minutes ago, flamingwalnut said:

???

As far as I see they have 4 books down that are exactly like this (Bonesplittas, Beastclaw, BoS, LoN) and several AoS armies that were built off of old stock that had models added to it. (Ironjaws, Sylvaneth, DoK, etc.) Can't imagine them stopping either trend.

I may be coming off wrong; I have no illusions that they will just pour out every suggested Battletome in the next year. It does make sense to spread things out, they have plenty of material and time. I was only suggesting that saying doing battletomes for older armies isn't a silly thing that will never come. It already has and it is reasonable to expect more at SOME point.

Oh sorry I misunderstood. Yes I’m sure they will at some point down the road. But there’s a sense from the community that it’s obviously a good thing for GW if they do it now now now and it’s a missed opportunity for free money that they’re losing with every second they don’t release battletomes to make all the Old World factions playable . I thought that’s what you meant sorry.

[robinlvalentine]

18 minutes ago, michu said:

New information about Slaanesh harpist rules!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/12/wrath-and-rapture-the-daemons-of-slaaneshgw-homepage-post-1/

Have you noticed they don't seem to have any photos of her? They keep using pictures where she's just in the background. Very odd. 

Also seems weird that she's this big anti-magic character in a box that's already full of Khorne stuff filling that niche. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by robinlvalentine

[flamingwalnut]

5 minutes ago, Nos said:

Oh sorry I misunderstood. Yes I’m sure they will at some point down the road. But there’s a sense from the community that it’s obviously a good thing for GW if they do it now now now and it’s a missed opportunity for free money that they’re losing with every second they don’t release battletomes to make all the Old World factions playable . I thought that’s what you meant sorry.

I can certainly see it, and I do think that the sooner they put tomes for existing armies the better. TECHNICALLY, every moment could be a new customer deciding to NOT buy into an army due to it being supported.

But given how much they have to cover, in both AoS and 40k, even with their crazy fast release schedule, it will take a bit. But one or two every year? Would not be shocked.

[Barkanaut]

I keep telling people old armies aren’t safe investments. Most likely won’t make the cut into Sigmar. GW clearly wants to sell AoS models in the game AoS and all the better selling models have tended to be AoS specific. The writing is on the wall and if you get into an old fantasy army without a battletomb your taking a big risk. It’s not surprising in the least really as painful as it might be for fantasy fans. 

[Thiagoma]

5 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

I keep telling people old armies aren’t safe investments. Most likely won’t make the cut into Sigmar. GW clearly wants to sell AoS models in the game AoS and all the better selling models have tended to be AoS specific. The writing is on the wall and if you get into an old fantasy army without a battletomb your taking a big risk. It’s not surprising in the least really as painful as it might be for fantasy fans. 

While i agree to a point, i dont think GW would alienate a lot of its fanbase.

I will give you my example: I started AoS with Spire of Dawn. From there i went Bananas on High Aelves. I think i have about 80% of the line and about 6k points in elfs. Some of the models are still  on par with current quality (Skycutter comes to mind).

 

I bought those miniatures from their website. They got Warscrolls and are currently beeing sold officially.  Heck i bought some this week!

 

What do you think will happen to a customer like me if GW decides tomorrow to no longer suport those models?

They will have a point to invalidate Reaver/High Warden (since they are exclusive to a product no longer sold and hard to produce, since it is mixed with skaven from the SoD box set). But products currently beeing sold? I doubt that.

Imo they will eventually make a battletome for each of the current groups on their webstore. LoN book for Aelfs would sell well and increase the interest on Aelfs for when the new Aelf factions arrive.

 

[Overread]

Except GW has gone out of their way to preserve a lot of old world models and even elements of its lore. 

Excluding the cuts at launch - which we must accept was a different AoS in terms of product - they've not cut much else since. Daughters of Khaine, Beasts of Chaos, Skaven - all of those use old models not just as few fringes but as the core of the army. Heck some, such as Scourge Privateers* have had whole Novellas dedicated to them in the BL publications and you can bet that GW doesn't invest money into writing lore about things they are going to remove from the game.

Yes a lot of older sculpts are showing their age, but I'd wager we are more likely to see GW use those old scupts and ugprade them to more "AoS style" rather than retire them utterly. AoS is its own thing but its built right off the back of fantasy and I think that GW knows that alienating that market segment more than they already are with more major model and line cuts isn't the way forward. 

 

*They are even still sailing around in vast Black Arks. 

[Barkanaut]

36 minutes ago, Overread said:

Except GW has gone out of their way to preserve a lot of old world models and even elements of its lore. 

Excluding the cuts at launch - which we must accept was a different AoS in terms of product - they've not cut much else since. Daughters of Khaine, Beasts of Chaos, Skaven - all of those use old models not just as few fringes but as the core of the army. Heck some, such as Scourge Privateers* have had whole Novellas dedicated to them in the BL publications and you can bet that GW doesn't invest money into writing lore about things they are going to remove from the game.

Yes a lot of older sculpts are showing their age, but I'd wager we are more likely to see GW use those old scupts and ugprade them to more "AoS style" rather than retire them utterly. AoS is its own thing but its built right off the back of fantasy and I think that GW knows that alienating that market segment more than they already are with more major model and line cuts isn't the way forward. 

 

*They are even still sailing around in vast Black Arks. 

Well it must have been working well since AoS grew on its own without fantasy fans until they decided to come back and co-opt it acting like they’ve always loved it. 

[Overread]

5 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Well it must have been working well since AoS grew on its own without fantasy fans until they decided to come back and co-opt it acting like they’ve always loved it. 

It's not about making this a "them and us" situation with regard to fantasy and AoS fans - esp as the two are often the same person. It's simply appreciating that AoS isn't a brand new game with brand new models only. Plus nothing stop GW using existing sculpts and then upgrading them later.

 

 

Also lets not be forgetful - the launch of AoS was a vast slap in the face to any fantasy fan from GW of old. Heck the launch of AoS was a total mess; there were no rules save for some daft ones and GWS management attitude was that they were just going to make cool models. It's no wonder that there was a lot of hostility early on. That has eased off a lot and barring a few, I'd say its at a time now wher AoS isn't a dirty word. In fact the greatest call I hear is that we want MORE AoS. We want more models and more battletomes and more rules- we want more from GW in the AoS line. 

[chord]

4 minutes ago, Overread said:

Also lets not be forgetful - the launch of AoS was a vast slap in the face to any fantasy fan from GW of old. Heck the launch of AoS was a total mess; there were no rules save for some daft ones and GWS management attitude was that they were just going to make cool models. It's no wonder that there was a lot of hostility early on. That has eased off a lot and barring a few, I'd say its at a time now wher AoS isn't a dirty word. In fact the greatest call I hear is that we want MORE AoS. We want more models and more battletomes and more rules- we want more from GW in the AoS line. 

Disagree!!  I started with AoS and it was great initially!!  None of the WHFB baggage and people who were into playing for fun.  Was doing super great in my area, and has gone downhill since 2.0  .       Please stop speaking like what you think are facts.  It's just one of many opinions. 

[Overread]

True but my overall impression is that in most areas AoS is doing better since 2.0 by a large margin. 

[Skreech Verminking]

26 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Well it must have been working well since AoS grew on its own without fantasy fans until they decided to come back and co-opt it acting like they’ve always loved it. 

Acting well!?

dont know what you mean with that mate, but aos was a joke at the beginning, literally almost nobody  played they game.

thanks to the ghb most players came back and newcomers had some interest in it.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Baron Klatz]

GW won't drop anything now. Every army has been put into the new lore at this point and used like the Swiftwings whose warscrolls actually give more lore details. Besides, it's been 3 years and we got rough Order equivalents of everything the Old World had. The time to tell people to ditch their old elves & dwarfs and go for the new ones has already passed.

Instead they continue to focus on them, combine them with the new stuff (Sylvaneth allegiance with Dispossessed,  Scourge privateers as Deepkin allies, DoK, etc).

I'm confident from here out that at best the old models will get the DoK treatment and at worst they're placeholders for updated versions (like I'm betting for Greenskinz).

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

I'll look for the picture as it helps the discussion. But there is a general's handbook or something with a reference story about the elves from Ulgu with that piece of art that looked very draconian/gargoyle like. So nothing to do with merging with a dragon but the picture was definitely linked to the elves in Ulgu affiliated with Malerion. And Dragon-Aelves seems like a very good description to me

You don't mean the demonic looking form he was revealed to have in the very first starter book do you?

Cause that's Malerion's new form that he woke up with when he found himself in Ulgu.

1d4chan is the rumor spreader that he fused with his dragon Seraphon but that's a lie.

It's unknown why but the most likely reason is because he along with most other gods went through the chaos realm to reach the mortal realms and that had dire effects like Tyrion's blindness, Alarielle's mind, etc. (It's likely the reason Grungni tied himself and Grimnir to an anchor of sorts so they'd speed through the chaos realm faster with less damage, though Grungni did suffer an ailment regardless)

Edit: I enjoyed and played AoS at the beginning and knew many others who did. The freedom of building was very welcomed and it lead to balanced player made point systems like the Azyr system or tournaments going by wounds while adding their own spin to things. (The 2015 Halloween tourney with zombie rules was a fun one)

It wasn't lucrative though in that too much was free with battletomes just fluffbooks + warscrolls and new players had a hard time with casual games since they had to agree on point systems.

Add this to GW overhauling all it's machinery for new quality models and it's no wonder profits dropped here.

However they added points the next year and kept to their promise of an evolving ruleset and world with their increased community input. So it's no surprise that + their new gorgeous models lead to skyrocketing success.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Baron Klatz

[Kramer]

@Skreech Verminking & @Overread, I'm with @chord on this one. It's too easy to say it went well or not. Of course it lost a lot of the WHFB fanbase. But it was a new concept. No points, etc. 

In my neck of the wood it was picked up small but great. The games were fun, the enthousiasme was bigger, less 'bad apples' in the crowd. The only thing it lacked was an tournament option. From that point on it went downhill here. A small peak, people realised AoS wasn't/isn't balanced enough, frustrations arose, chasing the meta and tournament practice became a thing. two years later. No more games in the shop. It tried to be something that it wasn't in my opinion & for a fact it didn't pick up in my area because of points. It might well have happened in your area. 

But to my mind, it's only because it tried to be the old game again that it lost it's uniquness. Still love it. But I would have loved it more if they tried the original direction for a bit longer. And judging numbers between the old WFHB and AoS is an invalid comparison in my mind. It's a game with 20 years of building time and a new system that followed up on the lore of the former. 

TLDR, You can't judge it as a continuation of the old system. They gave up on the no points thing too soon in my opinion. I truly believed it would have thrived it just needed to grow it's audience like WHFB originally did. 

 

@Baron Klatz Yes thank you! you are right! In my memory it wasn't tied to Melerion but it clearly is. 

[DantePQ]

7 hours ago, Zerthin said:

Where do you get those Malerion Dragon-Elves?  Do you base them on old 'Malekith got fused with his dragon' rumour?  If yes please stop repeating it. It was something Spikey Bits /BoLS/some other unreliable source at that time started based on picture next to Malerion/Ulgu description and was never true and got debunked many times already. 

If you heard it somewhere else - please do share. 

Also: Mistweaver and Tenebrael Shard were either prototypes of how Dragon-Aelves would look like (and let me tell you there's nothing draconic about them) or they got scrapped and upcoming (hopefully at some point) Aelves of Malerion will look nothing like they do (and will actually be dragon aelves like on the picture but it's not something we know and managing expectations is key to not being disappointed later on)

About Aelves of Ulgu : 

 

"Those taken by Malerion and Morathi were not humanoind in they way they once were, for they had been changed irrevocably. The first had bat wings, fine horns and long dextereous tails, their devilish appearance hinting at at ordeals they had endured in nether-realms...."

Also I remember that I have read elsewhere about Malerion's Elves and they were desribed that way as well. Maybe they are not exactly Dragon-Elves but nothing alike Mistweaver for sure. 

[Nos]

50 minutes ago, Overread said:

It's not about making this a "them and us" situation with regard to fantasy and AoS fans - esp as the two are often the same person. It's simply appreciating that AoS isn't a brand new game with brand new models only. Plus nothing stop GW using existing sculpts and then upgrading them later.

 

 

Also lets not be forgetful - the launch of AoS was a vast slap in the face to any fantasy fan from GW of old. Heck the launch of AoS was a total mess; there were no rules save for some daft ones and GWS management attitude was that they were just going to make cool models. It's no wonder that there was a lot of hostility early on. That has eased off a lot and barring a few, I'd say its at a time now wher AoS isn't a dirty word. In fact the greatest call I hear is that we want MORE AoS. We want more models and more battletomes and more rules- we want more from GW in the AoS line. 

It wasn’t a slap in the face. It was a change in direction. A company that owned one game decided to retire it and start another. They didn’t owe anyone anything. They didn’t owe gamers the right to play with their existing armies. If they wanted to do daft rules and  just sell models (That’s their entire business by the way, that’s all they do, nothing new in GW “just” wanting  to make and sell models, that’s what GW is) it’s entirely their own product to do that with. They’ve since changed direction again and are succeeding with it. That’s not down to the fans not os it an insult to the fans of the initial AOS either. It’s just another progression. 

It is a brand new game only. You can use models from a different system because GW decided to write rules for that purpose. But those models are being used in a new game, with new rules, as new models, against new models and new factions. They might decide to continue this practice, but they might stop. And if they do that won’t be a slap in the face to anyone.

 

[S133arcanite]

8 minutes ago, Nos said:

It wasn’t a slap in the face. It was a change in direction. A company that owned one game decided to retire it and start another. They didn’t owe anyone anything. They didn’t owe gamers the right to play with their existing armies. If they wanted to do daft rules and  just sell models (That’s their entire business by the way, that’s all they do, nothing new in GW “just” wanting  to make and sell models, that’s what GW is) it’s entirely their own product to do that with. They’ve since changed direction again and are succeeding with it. That’s not down to the fans not os it an insult to the fans of the initial AOS either. It’s just another progression. 

It is a brand new game only. You can use models from a different system because GW decided to write rules for that purpose. But those models are being used in a new game, with new rules, as new models, against new models and new factions. They might decide to continue this practice, but they might stop. And if they do that won’t be a slap in the face to anyone.

 

I completely agree. If fans don't like AoS, they can continue with WFBG; either way, its gw's company and their right to start a new game.

[Hoseman]

28 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

About Aelves of Ulgu : 

 

"Those taken by Malerion and Morathi were not humanoind in they way they once were, for they had been changed irrevocably. The first had bat wings, fine horns and long dextereous tails, their devilish appearance hinting at at ordeals they had endured in nether-realms...

This is exactly how kinerai of Daughters of khaine are... maybe Malerion Aelfs will be more creepy or just different to everything. Reptile Like melusai? I guess GW will make something different for Malerion Aelfs. Half something we have DoK. Big beasts we have Idoneth. Maybe they are just elfs that can travel into shadow as the silver tower hero... who knows. And armored Aelfs will be the brother ones so... 

[Skreech Verminking]

40 minutes ago, Nos said:

It wasn’t a slap in the face. It was a change in direction. A company that owned one game decided to retire it and start another. They didn’t owe anyone anything. They didn’t owe gamers the right to play with their existing armies. If they wanted to do daft rules and  just sell models (That’s their entire business by the way, that’s all they do, nothing new in GW “just” wanting  to make and sell models, that’s what GW is) it’s entirely their own product to do that with. They’ve since changed direction again and are succeeding with it. That’s not down to the fans not os it an insult to the fans of the initial AOS either. It’s just another progression. 

It is a brand new game only. You can use models from a different system because GW decided to write rules for that purpose. But those models are being used in a new game, with new rules, as new models, against new models and new factions. They might decide to continue this practice, but they might stop. And if they do that won’t be a slap in the face to anyone.

 

Well for many people including myself it was a slap in the face, but without it I would have probably never started the great game known as 40k 7th edition (although 8th edition isn’t bad either)😂.

times like this are great to stop for a while and try something new until there has been a chance in the previous played game.

Who knows maybe the chance might even get a person back.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Skreech Verminking