The Rumour Thread

[Rachmani]

2 hours ago, MitGas said:

Warhammer Fantasy is grimdark too. It's a preference and I can only accept you disagreeing strongly with me, it will not change my outlook on it though . I found AoS as a setting the weakest at its inception (not because it killed WHFB though, can't blame it for that) and find it matures very nicely, mostly because it gets back to the darker roots/mood of Warhammer.

While I agree that 40k had stretches where it was too grimdark, I believe that grimdark got a way too bad rep in nerddom and that's down to untalented writers dragging it into parody. I don't care for overt "noblesse" per se, I don't want it completely hopeless either, but a very dark mood appeals to me much more than bright colors, heroics and all that mumbo jumbo it started with. I get "sick" when I think of "lame" (to me) settings like Faerun, it just feels like saturday morning carton fantasy (I've worded this a bit too extreme obviously for effect). Give me Athas/Dark Sun all day, every day, make it dark! The bright light shines even brighter when there's darkness (and sometimes even bleakness) all around it after all but I think that's a point where our preferences actually align and we just interpret the definitions differently due to the material we got in contact with. In theory definitions should be set in stone but there's a certain leeway to these as they are constantly expanded upon and changed.

My favorite bit of lore in old WHFB was when Magnus entered Praag and saw what Chaos did to it and its inhabitants - from the corpses outside the city (the supposedly lucky ones) to the people fused with buildings. That was a visceral image and I think that's pretty dope and made his victory all the more satisfying as the stakes were high. The short story featuring the Nurglite herald in Dawnbringers felt a lot like that and I loved it!

But perhaps we are discussing this parallel to each other, as it's a complex topic where saying "I like X or Y" doesn't really tell the other in what way we like this or that as there are lots of different levels where nobledark and grimdark aren't exclusive but rather work well together. To me grimdark doesn't necessarily make every heroic action futile and the world doomed either way (as it felt like in 40k for many years), it's more about the general mood and the stakes. But that's where it's tricky, as some might say it's grimdark, others might just call it dark fantasy and we followers of Chaos just call it Friday.

Sorry for the long post!

Don’t be sorry!

I much prefer longer, well thought out posts. 
And as you rightly guessed, we’re actually not far apart at all in our preferences. 
I, too, prefer the stakes to be high, darkness so that „the light“ can shine brighter etc.

So I guess we’re pretty much aligned, after all. 
I also much prefer the current tone, of AoS & do think that SCE as tragic heroes instead of supermen are chef‘s kiss.

Still I want to try and bring my point across when it comes to grimdirk and … let’s say nobledark.

And for the lack of a better example I‘ll still use 40k, even though I think you have a point in that it gets remembered worse than it’s actually currently portrayed.

Anyway. To me the core question is: 

Who cares? Literally. Who does care? 
Much of the Imperium in 40k is described as a moloch that does not care for its people. It cares very much about its own survival, sure, but it‘s ready to sacrifice basically everything should the need arise.

That’s not the Grimdark (or whatever we want to calI it) I‘m looking for in AoS. 
I much prefer tragic stories of sacrifice and loss *because* people care. 
Even Sigmar, the great Deceiver appears to care. He doesn’t not eat the souls of psychic children to stay alive (or is forced to, to be kept alive).

I hope thar brings across my differentiation better!

[Ejecutor]

24 minutes ago, cyrus said:

They say in the article there are 25 spearheads : “ You get the 144-page hardback Spearhead: Fire and Jade book, which contains the rules for 25 separate Spearhead boxes“

Boc vanguard/spearhead is no longer available/sold out .

Sons of Behemat has not currently a vanguard/spearhead 

Stormcast and Orruk warclans have already one .

SoB Spearhead is the box with the 3 small giants.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, ScionOfOssia said:

So, Champions is +1 to their attack (only in the fight phase). Standard bearer is +1 to OC. The musician gives another Rally roll (so, 7 dice in total).

I hope there are more USR, I hope that they have a two modular parts (trigger+effect) with a lot more possibilities.

Everything else seems to be like we already know.

Edit: Power Through is missing. Maybe it's just for Spearhead mode?

Edited May 17 by Beliman

[MitGas]

3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I read your other post--there's def a definitional difference. I shoulda just said nobledark or noble factions, characters have never been an issue.

"Grimdark" is generally regarded as "there is little hope to change circumstances, struggle is often meaningless against evil" which is why people bust out "Nobledark" for AOS, as "there is hope and meaning in the struggle against evil". You definitely have a more nuanced look on grimdark than most of what I hear!

Yeah, in that way I'm all for nobledark as well. I'm not big on futility either and think it's just a downer (or more suited to H.P. Lovecraft's way of presenting cosmic horror or you know, boring real life xD) but like you've said, I don't necessarily define grimdark as that either, at least it wasn't only that back when the term came up. I like a grim, desolate setting but even in such a setting there should be room for good things and people winning, else it's just frustration incarnate. 🫤

[Ejecutor]

19 minutes ago, Vaellas said:

"You can check out everything we’ve revealed about the Skavendoom below, and we’ll be back with another Dawnbringer Chronicle next week…"

More story, huzzah!

It makes sense. A story on the announcement week and the last story on the preorders week.

[Ejecutor]

20 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

So looking at the community page it looks like Genestealers and Ad-Mech are on the table for tomorrow. 

I can smell a resolved RE:

[Ejecutor]

13 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

The Goonhammer Spearhead article indicates there are rules for a Sons of Behemat Spearhead (it's 3 Mancrushers!).

Yeah. This was mentioned earlier in one of the #NewAoS posts.

[CommissarRotke]

5 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

Anyway. To me the core question is: 

Who cares? Literally. Who does care? 
Much of the Imperium in 40k is described as a moloch that does not care for its people. It cares very much about its own survival, sure, but it‘s ready to sacrifice basically everything should the need arise.

That’s not the Grimdark (or whatever we want to calI it) I‘m looking for in AoS. 
I much prefer tragic stories of sacrifice and loss *because* people care. 
Even Sigmar, the great Deceiver appears to care. He doesn’t not eat the souls of psychic children to stay alive (or is forced to, to be kept alive).

3 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Yeah, in that way I'm all for nobledark as well. I'm not big on futility either and think it's just a downer (or more suited to H.P. Lovecraft's way of presenting cosmic horror or you know, boring real life xD) but like you've said, I don't necessarily define grimdark as that either, at least it wasn't only that back when the term came up. I like a grim, desolate setting but even in such a setting there should be room for good things and people winning, else it's just frustration incarnate. 🫤

this is why I just cannot care about 40k anymore, and why AOS grabbed me. It feels more akin to LOTR, and parts of WHF, where there are actual emotional stakes because Rohan/Praag are legitimately better off once Saruman/Chaos are beaten back.

 

[Ejecutor]

Btw, what is the consensus? Do we follow here tomorrows' preview (30 and 40k) just because it is a preview and could solve REs?

Yay or nay?

Edited May 17 by Ejecutor

[Vaellas]

30 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

So looking at the community page it looks like Genestealers and Ad-Mech are on the table for tomorrow. 

Well that is for sure claws on the left model so that matches up with the rumour engine.
The back of the leg matches the suspension for the leg for rumour engine too.

[Sahrial]

Does… god I don’t want to get my hopes up… does that look like a Thanatar Siege Automata to anyone else?

[Vaellas]

4 minutes ago, Sahrial said:

Does… god I don’t want to get my hopes up… does that look like a Thanatar Siege Automata to anyone else?

I had to google what that is but you look 100% right on the money

[Mutton]

This is not a 40k forum, as a reminder.

Also, the previous 4th ed Reference Sheet didn't have Power Through on it, so I made a version that does.

[Gaz Taylor]

21 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Btw, what is the consensus? Do we follow here tomorrows' preview (30 and 40k) here just because it is a preview and could solve REs?

Yay or nay?

Nay

Keep to Age of Sigmar please. Occasional missteps off the path of the rumour topic is expected but don’t stray too far!

I will be watching it tomorrow though as want to see what is happening with Necromunda (hoping new edition with less rules all over the place).

Anyway back to AOS….

There’s been no mention of a release date yet?

[Third]

Why didn't the Skaven player have the Ratling Warpblaster during the show game for Spearhead? Have I missed something or have they done a pretty big oopsie? 🤔

[GrimDork]

5 minutes ago, Third said:

Why didn't the Skaven player have the Ratling Warpblaster during the show game for Spearhead? Have I missed something or have they done a pretty big oopsie? 🤔

I think the launch box contains more minis than just the spearhead.

[Acrozatarim]

That's explicitly the case, yes; they've showed photos of just the Spearhead forces, which are smaller selections from what you get in the box.

[GrimDork]

So, the jezzails, rattling cannon & 20 clanrats are not part of the Skaven spearhead force.

[Beliman]

13 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

That's explicitly the case, yes; they've showed photos of just the Spearhead forces, which are smaller selections from what you get in the box.

Gotcha. So the Box is an Spearhead + "extras". The "extras" are only for AoS games.

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

SoB Spearhead is the box with the 3 small giants.

If they keep those giants around for another 3 years i might actually like them as a Spearhead army.

Edited May 17 by Gitzdee

[HorticulusTGA]

3 hours sleep to watch the Preview. 100% WORTH IT 

• Models : I did NOT expect that much models in the box. Every one of them is great. If it is 160£ / 210 euros indeed, I'll get it no problemo (including 3 books and a mat!) : 
  • For Stormcast, the mix between new (Lord-Terminos and Mortisans), upgraded (Knight-Questor) and/or ruination-ized (Lord-Vertitant and Gryph-crow) units is very well done.
  • Didn't think it was possible to have a cooler Skaven Starer Set than Island of Blood. Yet the Studio did it.
  • Too bad for the 1. ruined and 2. skavenized scenery not being intact Azyrite buildings, but it's still cool looking and thematic while not taking too much space in the box. 
• Lore : the expandable map of the Realms is really nice (even if I prefer the Star Charts design of AOS2). Having the points of view of Mortals to present the Realms is a great idea, I guess inspired from the quite flavorful WHQ : Shadow Over Hammerhal booklet (cf. also the recent Callis and Toll video) : 
  • Speaking of little details, the inside of the Dawnbringers walls bears small nods to its inhabitant like the door keys or a jar. Very nice. 

 

A few precisions : SoB having a 3 Mancrushers Spearhead is great. The old Lord-Veritant had a 40mm base Gryph-hound (only the Lord-Imperatant has a 32mm one and the Excelsior Warpriest from Silver Tower a 25mm one), so 1:1 proxy is 100% possible. Looking forward for the faction focus and more Dawnbringer stories next week ! (While waiting for a roadmap and more informations on the future SCE and Skaven ranges updates).

One last cool things about Skaventide : the few options on the models. Clanrats have different commands, apparently Rat Ogors have variants, and in the 35min Mortal realms reforged video between 29:37-30:08 you can see the Stormcast in traditional HAMMERS OF SIGMARS colors with a bar head option on the Lord-Vigilant 

[Dragon-knight77]

11 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

One last cool things about Skaventide : the few options on the models. Clanrats have different commands, apparently Rat Ogors have variants, and in the 35min Mortal realms reforged video between 29:37-30:08 you can see the Stormcast in traditional HAMMERS OF SIGMARS colors with a bar head option on the Lord-Vigilant 

That pretty cool that the same braned head the Lord Terminos has on the cover so i guess they either used on the vigilor or they gave them both that option (both is good)

[Snorri Nelriksson]

Some tidbits about the ruination seems to imply there's more.
Other than "thunderstrike paladins" what could we expect for the stormcasts other than the box new minis?
Skaven seems already known by the rumor already posted and proved "right" about what's to come but i feel  difficult to imagine what stormcasts could get ?
Considering the various squatting of their ranges other than thunderstrike old units i can't see much.
Hoping for some "extreme" ideas for "un-reforgable" stormcasts like lightning geists\dreddy styled golems.

[HorticulusTGA]

6 minutes ago, Dragon-knight77 said:

That pretty cool that the same braned head the Lord Terminos has on the cover so i guess they either used on the vigilor or they gave them both that option (both is good)

Yeah good spot ! To me the Lord-Terminos is really just a Lord-Vigilant on foot (same design, big axe weapons). As you say both options is good.

BTW the more I look at its content the more I realize Skaventide just mogs Leviathan and Dominion in one swift strike, it's amazing 

[Twisted Firaun]

2 hours ago, Sahrial said:

Does… god I don’t want to get my hopes up… does that look like a Thanatar Siege Automata to anyone else?

It does, then again I’m also hoping for dark mechanicum models, so who really knows?