The Rumour Thread

[mojojojo101]

52 minutes ago, Charleston said:

As for new factions: I sometimes wonder if some factions are "shallow" by design so people jump around more. Of whether it was a sole marketing experiment what sells more kits: Many small factions or few bigger ones. Althrough for this I wonder that we didn´t received more community feedback forms to fill.

Of course it's easy to be cynical about it (GW don't help themselves a lot of the time) but I quite like the idea of 'shallower' factions because it allows each faction to maintain focus and a distinguished niche and style both narratively and from a gameplay PoV.

Every army doesn't have to be able to perform in every phase of the game or have every battlefield niche available to it. I think doing that both makes each faction feel less like it's own thing and the game as a whole feel more static and more boring.

 

[alghero81]

2 hours ago, Charleston said:

The current way the rules are split on 5 factions and by owning models of each of them you can be potentially lured to flesh each of them out ('huh, when I already own 1000k of Khorne Daemons I could buy that Bloodsecrator as well as some Wrathmongers'). 

Yeah one of the things is that to know what the various demons do, you are assumed to have them already or their books. I know warscroll cards become outdated pretty quickly but I still like them, but not going to buy those of every single chaos faction just to have few that I’m going to use. 
I personally hope in some undivided daemons that means also a new book and warscroll cards.

Regarding WHFB surviving armies, CoS is the last one yet to get some love, I assume most cursed city heroes will be usable there but also there is no Warcry or WU warband for them. So only time will tell.

The second worst treated old army is Seraphon, they got only a ziqqurat and soon a WU warband.

Skaven got at least one hero, spells, gnawholes and a WU warband.

Paradoxically worst than Skaven, until now, is Legions of Nagash, while they got some new models as part of Nighthaunt, not all are available and the only proper models they got are the Sepulchral Guard that they could not use for a year or so. They don’t even get the Black Coach but they have their own outdated and out of production model.

Orruk Warclans are also on the losing side with Bonesplitterz getting their first model now in WU, and Ironjawz being an AoS army but at the cost of many old models.

BoC got Tzaangors and now Slaangors, so they got indirect updates plus a new bray shaman in WU.

As mentioned all Chaos armies got many models, as Sylvaneth during the transition.

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

Of course it's easy to be cynical about it (GW don't help themselves a lot of the time) but I quite like the idea of 'shallower' factions because it allows each faction to maintain focus and a distinguished niche and style both narratively and from a gameplay PoV.

Every army doesn't have to be able to perform in every phase of the game or have every battlefield niche available to it. I think doing that both makes each faction feel less like it's own thing and the game as a whole feel more static and more boring.

 

agree. 

I don't think there's any great conspiracy, and if anything perhaps armies now are at risk of becoming to samey in respect to the risk of everyone has an equivalent to everything else.

I feel that armies should have strengths and weaknesses, dwarf armies were just tough as nails to break, but were never going to win a sprint race, chaos was hard hitting but low model count and conversly low hitting armies were very high model count like goblins , skellies and skaven , to compensate.

Of course pointy ears just did absolutely everything "Oh but we're only toughness 3"  - but you still had to get past the full plate, two handed weapon that always hit first and the equivalent of never taking battleshock just to begin denting them... but we won't go into that.

I think big holes in armies capabilities are no bad thing.  It encourages different play styles for different armies, rather than the same template but with a different skin on it.

Classic throne of skulls story...

Everyone is looking in the cabinet at our armies, mine was a khorne Warriors of Chaos army (fantasy battle).

dude to his friend " Nice army but it's illegal."

me " Oh yea? why's that then?"

him "Well you've got one too many juggernauts"

me " no I haven't... lord on juggernaut, Hero on juggernaut and Battle standard Bearer on juggernaut "

him " Yebbut..  that's too many heroes as your wizard fills the last slot."

me "I don't run a wizard"

him "what do you mean you don't run a wizard - how do you cope with the magic phase?"

me " I don't. I just have to sit there and take it.....   then it's my turn"

[Random]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

I think doing that both makes each faction feel less like it's own thing and the game as a whole feel more static and more boring.

Speaking entirely from a thematic perspective, I can't ever agree with this. Undead or Vampire Counts weren't "boring" just because they had Ghouls. It's literally an integral part of the Vampire and Undead theme. Turning Ghouls into their own army didn't make neither better.

In fact, most of the splintered armies that are based on a single unit struggle to actually develop an identity on their own. Fyreslayers are notoriously unpopular because Slayers really worked well as part as a Dwarf army, but not on their own, despite the reworked thematic(which turns them into mercenaries - with a Slayer visual), and Ghouls are still just Ghouls.

Of course GW tried their best to write in as many "unique" details as they possibly can. But admittedly, it ain't really working to help turn a single unit into a whole army. Sylvaneth really got the longer end of the stick here, but even they don't work for me, as I think Woodelves without the Elves is just wood and not interesting to me.

Unless any of these get the Tomb Kings treatment, they'll be just what they are: a flawed attempt to turn a single unit into its own army.

[KingBrodd]

31 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

Yeah one of the things is that to know what the various demons do, you are assumed to have them already or their books. I know warscroll cards become outdated pretty quickly but I still like them, but not going to buy those of every single chaos faction just to have few that I’m going to use. 
I personally hope in some undivided daemons that means also a new book and warscroll cards.

Regarding WHFB surviving armies, CoS is the last one yet to get some love, I assume most cursed city heroes will be usable there but also there is no Warcry or WU warband for them. So only time will tell.

The second worst treated old army is Seraphon, they got only a ziqqurat and soon a WU warband.

Skaven got at least one hero, spells, gnawholes and a WU warband.

Paradoxically worst than Skaven, until now, is Legions of Nagash, while they got some new models as part of Nighthaunt, not all are available and the only proper models they got are the Sepulchral Guard that they could not use for a year or so. They don’t even get the Black Coach but they have their own outdated and out of production model.

Orruk Warclans are also on the losing side with Bonesplitterz getting their first model now in WU, and Ironjawz being an AoS army but at the cost of many old models.

BoC got Tzaangors and now Slaangors, so they got indirect updates plus a new bray shaman in WU.

As mentioned all Chaos armies got many models, as Sylvaneth during the transition.

I argue that Ogor Mawtribes are in the same boat. With the new Tyrant and UW Warband and Mawpot being their only releases. 

[Joseph Mackay]

21 minutes ago, Random said:

Speaking entirely from a thematic perspective, I can't ever agree with this. Undead or Vampire Counts weren't "boring" just because they had Ghouls. It's literally an integral part of the Vampire and Undead theme. Turning Ghouls into their own army didn't make neither better.

In fact, most of the splintered armies that are based on a single unit struggle to actually develop an identity on their own. Fyreslayers are notoriously unpopular because Slayers really worked well as part as a Dwarf army, but not on their own, despite the reworked thematic(which turns them into mercenaries - with a Slayer visual), and Ghouls are still just Ghouls.

Of course GW tried their best to write in as many "unique" details as they possibly can. But admittedly, it ain't really working to help turn a single unit into a whole army. Sylvaneth really got the longer end of the stick here, but even they don't work for me, as I think Woodelves without the Elves is just wood and not interesting to me.

Unless any of these get the Tomb Kings treatment, they'll be just what they are: a flawed attempt to turn a single unit into its own army.

I disagree with you about Fyreslayers, I think the theme of an all Slayer army can work but they just need a few extra things to break up the sameness of every model.

I somewhat disagree with you about Death too. Ghouls splitting off into Flesh-Eaters I think actually did make them better. However, the whole delusions thing in their lore and the fact gw gave Horrors and Flayers the Knight keyword has cut off future model expansions. Fec can’t have mounted units now because it wouldn’t fit the lore, the Horrors already believe that they’re horse riding knights, so how would you explain having Horrors and Ghouls on a mount for example?

[sandlemad]

I mean there's shallow and there's shallow, right? We can all agree that Fyreslayers don't work because it is a muddled attempt to stretch a single unit's concept into a whole army without any real effort to differentiate between... anything. Ironjaws suffer similarly, if not to anywhere the same extent.

Flesh-Eater Courts, Beastclaw Raiders, these took an actual subtheme of a pre-existing WHFB and built it up with a fresh non-model concept (the delusions, the Everwinter) and still wound up with forces with a variety of silhouettes and visuals as well as a unique and more developed background. They could certainly do with being rounded out but by portioning them off they get more attention, detail and development of that particular subtheme, like some sort of distillation. FEC ghouls are one of the coolest and most entertaining concepts in AoS and BCR are infinitely better developed than their 'Gutbuster' equivalents.

Then you have Nighthaunt, Daughters of Khaine, Gloomspite Gitz, these are the gold standard of this sort of effort and show how it can work.

Edited March 9, 2021 by sandlemad

[Wraith]

I like the CoS battletome concept: a battletome series that any orphan models or models that lose a specific battletome, can be gathered into. We see this to a lessor extent with the combined Orge battletome. I would like to see one catch all battletome series for each grand alliance, so any single faction losing an independent battletome can be regrouped in the general battletome for the alliance. So for Death, the successor the LoN would be a catch all, as would StD for Chaos.

 

Anyway, back to rumours.

 

We know from a January Warhammer Community article that the BR: Teclis book will have battalions for LRL, Nurgle, FEC, OBR, and CoS. One would expect box set releases to go with these as per BR: Morathi. Has anyone seen anything about what battalions will come with BR: Be'lakor?

[Ratboy genius]

1 hour ago, alghero81 said:

The second worst treated old army is Seraphon, they got only a ziqqurat and soon a WU warband.

Skaven got at least one hero, spells, gnawholes and a WU warband.

Skaven also had new sculpts in Isle of Blood, in the Rat Ogres, Packmaster, Warlord, Warlock Engineer, Warpfire Thrower, and Mortar (RIP) which were all removed with high elves in AoS a few years in. (They did clear out old stock by calling it spire of dawn and selling it for a few months.)  As a rat player, i'd really appreciate if GW took out those old files and gave them a spin in some moulds.... please... rat ogres are so ugly

[alghero81]

50 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I argue that Ogor Mawtribes are in the same boat. With the new Tyrant and UW Warband and Mawpot being their only releases. 

Good point, forgot about them. They have the same Skaven problem, actually pretty similar story considering that Skaven for a long while were split in various clans before being brought together and Ogors were pretty similar with Firebellies left on their own for a while 

[KingBrodd]

29 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I mean there's shallow and there's shallow, right? We can all agree that Fyreslayers don't work because it is a muddled attempt to stretch a single unit's concept into a whole army without any real effort to differentiate between... anything. Ironjaws suffer similarly, if not to anywhere the same extent.

Flesh-Eater Courts, Beastclaw Raiders, these took an actual subtheme of a pre-existing WHFB and built it up with a fresh non-model concept (the delusions, the Everwinter) and still wound up with forces with a variety of silhouettes and visuals. They could certainly do with being rounded out but by portioning them off they get more background attention and development of that particular subtheme, like some sort of distillation. FEC ghouls are one of the coolest and most entertaining concepts in AoS and BCR are infinitely better developed than their 'Gutbuster' equivalents.

Nighthaunt, Daughters of Khaine, Gloomspite Gitz, these are the gold standard of this sort of effort and show how it can work.

I'm really hoping that the next round for Death after Gravelords is a bolstering of FEC. Play into the delusion and give us incredibly macabre units and models. Ghoulslayer featured what can only be described as a Mega Gargant Ghoul. Give us something like that but to the Courts they view it as a mobile trebuchet or Siege Tower moving in to take castles. 

BCR is what I'm most excited by for Destruction and after Warclans I'm expecting it to be the first updated. There are a lot of resin minis in  there and some are plain ugly. I'd love to see an AOS Yehtee or better yet give us new monsters that stalk on the shadows of the Everwinter. If Sons of Behemat didnt suit Mammoths, give them to the Raiders. Huge monstrous beasts with a howdah holding a unit of Ogors armed with Crossbows. If a Mammoth isnt AOS enough, make it a massive Ground Sloth with Tusks, such as the Titan Behemoth from Godzilla King of the Monsters. 

[alghero81]

14 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:

Skaven also had new sculpts in Isle of Blood, in the Rat Ogres, Packmaster, Warlord, Warlock Engineer, Warpfire Thrower, and Mortar (RIP) which were all removed with high elves in AoS a few years in.

Wasn’t that the starter set of WHFB 8? In my list they are all pre-2016 so pre-AoS

[Ratboy genius]

Just now, alghero81 said:

Wasn’t that the starter set of WHFB 8? In my list they are all pre-2016 so pre-AoS

It was, but it was also released during AoS as Spire of Dawn, i think  during the year of 2016

[KingBrodd]

17 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

Good point, forgot about them. They have the same Skaven problem, actually pretty similar story considering that Skaven for a long while were split in various clans before being brought together and Ogors were pretty similar with Firebellies left on their own for a while 

If Mawtribes are to be expanded we surely need a subfaction of Firebellies to round out Ice and Fire. 

26 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:

Skaven also had new sculpts in Isle of Blood, in the Rat Ogres, Packmaster, Warlord, Warlock Engineer, Warpfire Thrower, and Mortar (RIP) which were all removed with high elves in AoS a few years in. (They did clear out old stock by calling it spire of dawn and selling it for a few months.)  As a rat player, i'd really appreciate if GW took out those old files and gave them a spin in some moulds.... please... rat ogres are so ugly

I agree I would love to see new Rat Ogors. Come on GW those older sculpts are far better than the ones in circulation!!

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:

It was, but it was also released during AoS as Spire of Dawn, i think  during the year of 2016

Though it was branded AoS, I don't think there is much left of it that isn't just tossed into Legends.

[Ratboy genius]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Though it was branded AoS, I don't think there is much left of it that isn't just tossed into Legends.

High elves were obviously squatted, on the skaven side, other than the mortar, everything else still has datasheets, even if the warlord was simplified

[alghero81]

26 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:

It was, but it was also released during AoS as Spire of Dawn, i think  during the year of 2016

Yes but by that criteria then the garden of Morr is the most represented terrain piece in AoS 😂😂

I was talking about brand new AoS released sculpts, so anything post End Times 

[Ratboy genius]

6 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

Yes but by that criteria then the garden of Morr is the most represented terrain piece in AoS 😂😂

I was talking about brand new AoS released sculpts, so anything post End Times 

I just think the criteria for "worst treatment" should take into account the backwards jump in quality that happened for rats post end-times 

[Overread]

10 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Cities Of Sigmar has potential to expand each individual sub faction (Dispossessed, Order Serpentis etc). Unfortunately I fear Cities is the end of the line for them. I’m worried that they’ll never be updated again and probably discontinued in the next edition. To me, that book was a stopgap so they could say everything got aos2 rules

As I see it Cities is in a really odd mess. 

GW has teased Kurnothi as the potential return of wood-aelves. We might see then splinter out and return to sylvaneth however we might lose all the current models in doing so even the amazing deer riders might get retired for centaurs. Though the new Kurnothi in the Warhammer Quest game gives hope that not all at animal/aelf hybrids. So there's a nice chance that they can re-merge the two and go from there. I think Sylvaneth players might accept this change, at least provided that the army within itself remained able to take a Dryad heavy force within the rules

Dark Elves are in a really strange position because basically almost all the army is intact. Daughters of Khaine took 2 models out (cauldron and witch aelves) and shares the shadowrider/warlock kit. Otherwise all that Dark Elves lost were a few leader models and their reaper bolt thrower. In theory GW could have made them a full army on their own. There's also the issue that Malarion's army is sort of Dark Elves AoS style. 

Dispossessed are perhaps quit safe as there isn't a traditional ground dwarf army. They could easily splinter out as their own force and be distinct from both Khadorans and Fyreslayers. There's even great lore potential for the Dwarves to go on a mighty quest to recapture their holts and strongholds and reclaim the Realm of Metal from Chaos. 

Humans lost a LOT but are also totally broken right now with most of the lore references hinting at heavy steam punk elements that aren't really there in the models (even the steam tank is very primitive in design ethos). That said they already lost their armies at the start of AoS so its only onwards and upwards for them.

 

 

So in an odd turn the aelves of Cities are in the most vulnerable position in that their concepts and armies have almost been replaced with AoS style creations. And yet Dark Elves are the most at risk despite being the most complete remaining force. I'm really not sure if GW even knows what they are going to do with them long term. They are teasing right now a Daughters of Khaine and Dark Elf army as a united force through the latest Morathi book. I wonder if this might be them hinting that in the future they might just make DoK into a rebuild Dark Elf army. Though I'm not sure if DoK players would welcome that. Yes it means their army suddenly grows by a lot of models, but the whole ethos of lore and army composition would change drastically.  It would be a brutal battleground of players from Old World (and newer ones) who have adopted the Dark Elf line wanting it and DoK players not wanting it. Of course one might argue that so long as the battletome allows you to take a Temple army (all "traditional daughters") or a combined army then everyone "should" be happy. 

[KingBrodd]

Latest RE!!

[Jeremierty]

Just now, KingBrodd said:

Latest RE!!

Do you think it is silent people ?? 

[Nezzhil]

2 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Latest RE!!

It is a tail of a Meargh Fimir.

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Charleston said:

As for new factions: I sometimes wonder if some factions are "shallow" by design so people jump around more. Of whether it was a sole marketing experiment what sells more kits: Many small factions or few bigger ones. Althrough for this I wonder that we didn´t received more community feedback forms to fill.

The people who originally leaked AoS months in advance of it's reveal - and who were accurate about most of it - said this was going to be the plan, wherein they'd release a lot of smaller factions and cycle them out every year or two and effectively make everything a limited/temporary release. The logic being that Kirby still believed people only bought into GW for the models, not for the game, so they'd keep buying the New Shiny anyway. 

Of course now they appear to have scrapped that logic, but it does seem like the smaller initial factions were a holdover from that.

[Yokai]

7 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Latest RE!!

Looks quite demonic. Companions for Be'lakor to push around, mayhaps? 😛

Edited March 9, 2021 by Yokai

[KingBrodd]

9 minutes ago, Overread said:

As I see it Cities is in a really odd mess. 

GW has teased Kurnothi as the potential return of wood-aelves. We might see then splinter out and return to sylvaneth however we might lose all the current models in doing so even the amazing deer riders might get retired for centaurs. Though the new Kurnothi in the Warhammer Quest game gives hope that not all at animal/aelf hybrids. So there's a nice chance that they can re-merge the two and go from there. I think Sylvaneth players might accept this change, at least provided that the army within itself remained able to take a Dryad heavy force within the rules

Dark Elves are in a really strange position because basically almost all the army is intact. Daughters of Khaine took 2 models out (cauldron and witch aelves) and shares the shadowrider/warlock kit. Otherwise all that Dark Elves lost were a few leader models and their reaper bolt thrower. In theory GW could have made them a full army on their own. There's also the issue that Malarion's army is sort of Dark Elves AoS style. 

Dispossessed are perhaps quit safe as there isn't a traditional ground dwarf army. They could easily splinter out as their own force and be distinct from both Khadorans and Fyreslayers. There's even great lore potential for the Dwarves to go on a mighty quest to recapture their holts and strongholds and reclaim the Realm of Metal from Chaos. 

Humans lost a LOT but are also totally broken right now with most of the lore references hinting at heavy steam punk elements that aren't really there in the models (even the steam tank is very primitive in design ethos). That said they already lost their armies at the start of AoS so its only onwards and upwards for them.

 

 

So in an odd turn the aelves of Cities are in the most vulnerable position in that their concepts and armies have almost been replaced with AoS style creations. And yet Dark Elves are the most at risk despite being the most complete remaining force. I'm really not sure if GW even knows what they are going to do with them long term. They are teasing right now a Daughters of Khaine and Dark Elf army as a united force through the latest Morathi book. I wonder if this might be them hinting that in the future they might just make DoK into a rebuild Dark Elf army. Though I'm not sure if DoK players would welcome that. Yes it means their army suddenly grows by a lot of models, but the whole ethos of lore and army composition would change drastically.  It would be a brutal battleground of players from Old World (and newer ones) who have adopted the Dark Elf line wanting it and DoK players not wanting it. Of course one might argue that so long as the battletome allows you to take a Temple army (all "traditional daughters") or a combined army then everyone "should" be happy. 

I really hope the Duardin retaking their holds is a strong narrative going forward. I love a good crusade and a Duardin one going against their Mortal enemies the Greenskins and the Rat Kin is too good to pass up.

2 minutes ago, Jeremierty said:

Do you think it is silent people ?? 

I'd love it to be!! But I'm getting Tyranid or even Malerions Aelves vibes for some reason.