The Rumour Thread

[Sabush]

18 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Is there any real reason for the remaing Dark Elf kits and/or Malerion to be combined into DoK other than thats how it was in WHFB?

 

For me its mostly wishlisting, coming from a DE-player in WHFB.
But there's also Har Kuron and Khainite Shadowstalkers that link it together in the AoS-setting.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Here's to hoping that whatever happens to Malerion, he'll get 100% new sculpts for his faction, like what LRL got, and not recycled DE sculpts (that aren't Witch Elves/Cauldron of Blood).. Here's one for new Doomfire Warlock sculpts !

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

That still does not even hint at this new guy taking the faction from the more established AoS character.

Since you consistently refuse to use his name  I assume you are not really interested in hearing any answers 😄

[KingBrodd]

26 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Here's to hoping that whatever happens to Malerion, he'll get 100% new sculpts for his faction, like what LRL got, and not recycled DE sculpts (that aren't Witch Elves/Cauldron of Blood).. Here's one for new Doomfire Warlock sculpts !

Im sure GW going ahead wants to remove all WHFB minis from AOS which is the correct way to do things going forward.

[Chikout]

18 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Im sure GW going ahead wants to remove all WHFB minis from AOS which is the correct way to do things going forward.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think it's more accurate to say that they want to update models which they think they can do better. It wouldn't surprise me if we see new Fyreslayer berzerkers before we see new moonclan grots. Thanquol is a Warhammer fantasy mini that I don't see getting updated any time soon. Are they really going to do a new Nagash just because it's a Warhammer fantasy mini? I doubt it. 

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

Is there any real reason for the remaing Dark Elf kits and/or Malerion to be combined into DoK other than thats how it was in WHFB?

 

I don't think we can analyse it yet, as we are missing the whole lore from the upcoming Umbraneths.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

38 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Im sure GW going ahead wants to remove all WHFB minis from AOS which is the correct way to do things going forward.

Hey, there's some perfectly AoS compatible minis that come from WFB. End Times stuff and some kits that came out quickly before that like Witch Elves, Khorne Skullcrushers, the Stonehorn/Thundertusk... 

You don't want to phase out Nagash because he technically came out during WFB times, do you ?

[JerekKruger]

34 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Hey, there's some perfectly AoS compatible minis that come from WFB. End Times stuff and some kits that came out quickly before that like Witch Elves, Khorne Skullcrushers, the Stonehorn/Thundertusk... 

Personally I want all three of those to eventually receive AoSified glow ups. Of the three, the one that needs attention are Skullcrushers because their aesthetics don't fit with the other Khorne stuff in AoS. Then Stonehorn/Thundertusk, just because I want the entire Ogor range to be given a glow up and I'd prefer to avoid a Cities of Sigmar situation where you have these amazing new sculpts alongside the Luminark. Witch Elves look okay actually, and fit the aesthetic of their faction, but when you look at Morgwaeth's Blood Coven you can see how much better new Witch Aelves could look.

34 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

You don't want to phase out Nagash because he technically came out during WFB times, do you ?

Actually, I've always thought his mini looks kinda rubbish (Archaon too), so I'd love a resculpt. Not that that will happen for a long time now.

Edited September 14, 2023 by JerekKruger

[EntMan]

My take, based on what's happened with New Cities and the removal of the wood elves and high elves models is that GW want to avoid having models which work for both AoS and Old World. So I think their aim is to remove/replace WFB models from AoS where they are from the Old World's supported factions.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

Is there any real reason for the remaing Dark Elf kits and/or Malerion to be combined into DoK other than thats how it was in WHFB?

This depends on what you think of the racial key for the armies. It was fundamental in WHFB and, to some extent, it is still important in AoS (hence the constant Dwarf unification discussions). As for the Elves, we already have good(ish) elves (Lumineth), neutral and reclusive elves (Idoneth) and evil(ish) elves (DoK and old Druchii in CoS). So, if you: (i) use the racial key and (ii) assume that the elf-spectrum is complete and (iii) take into account the nature of Malerion, it seems natural he should join (or take the lead) of the evil(ish) elves.

I know many people here are against the racial key in AoS, but I like it. Unlike our world, the races in Mortal Realms are real and vastly different from each other. 

[Snarff]

15 minutes ago, Flippy said:

This depends on what you think of the racial key for the armies. It was fundamental in WHFB and, to some extent, it is still important in AoS (hence the constant Dwarf unification discussions). As for the Elves, we already have good(ish) elves (Lumineth), neutral and reclusive elves (Idoneth) and evil(ish) elves (DoK and old Druchii in CoS). So, if you: (i) use the racial key and (ii) assume that the elf-spectrum is complete and (iii) take into account the nature of Malerion, it seems natural he should join (or take the lead) of the evil(ish) elves.

I know many people here are against the racial key in AoS, but I like it. Unlike our world, the races in Mortal Realms are real and vastly different from each other. 

The fun thing to me is that there are so many differences within the species. Duardin aren't just one unified species, they are multiple extremely different (aesthetically, culturally and gameplay wise) factions within a species. Same thing with Aelves, Humans, etc. Even in WFB humans weren't just 'one species = one army' (bretonnia, empire, kislev, norsca, etc.) leading to them being much more fleshed out than if they just threw all those armies together under the banner 'Humans'.

Besides the obvious balance issues and gameplay homogenisation throwing everything together brings, merging things just because 'they are the same species' really detracts from the setting IMO. Duardin gained so much identity with their distinct AoS factions. Steampunk sky pirate rules lawyers and maniacal blazing warrior-monks riding dragons is not something you'd see more than a single unit of in a traditional boringly over-conservative dwarf army. Armies like Gloomspite and Flesh Eater Courts are thriving and beloved because they get their actual own unique lore now instead of being a small part of an army.

Part of what made CoS so beloved is their multi-species nature (which they hopefully double down on in the next wave). Segregating or combining armies purely based on species is boring. Optional armies which are not the focus of balance (like legion of the first prince)? Fine, as long as GW doesn't force the merging on everyone.

[Swamp Trogg]

6 minutes ago, Snarff said:

The fun thing to me is that there are so many differences within the species. Duardin aren't just one unified species, they are multiple extremely different (aesthetically, culturally and gameplay wise) factions within a species. Same thing with Aelves, Humans, etc. Even in WFB humans weren't just 'one species = one army' (bretonnia, empire, kislev, norsca, etc.) leading to them being much more fleshed out than if they just threw all those armies together under the banner 'Humans'.

Besides the obvious balance issues and gameplay homogenisation throwing everything together brings, merging things just because 'they are the same species' really detracts from the setting IMO. Duardin gained so much identity with their distinct AoS factions. Steampunk sky pirate rules lawyers and maniacal blazing warrior-monks riding dragons is not something you'd see more than a single unit of in a traditional boringly over-conservative dwarf army. Armies like Gloomspite and Flesh Eater Courts are thriving and beloved because they get their actual own unique lore now instead of being a small part of an army.

Part of what made CoS so beloved is their multi-species nature (which they hopefully double down on in the next wave). Segregating or combining armies purely based on species is boring. Optional armies which are not the focus of balance (like legion of the first prince)? Fine, as long as GW doesn't force the merging on everyone.

While I agree with all that, I still think there isn't enough room for yet an other evil goth simili elves army in the game. And neither Morathi or Malerion would lose much with a merging.

Because design wise, there isn't enough room for two emo goth elves armies in the game. 

 

Leave these room for evil top hat wearing Duardins.

 

We deserve it. 

 

Vote for the Father of Darkness 😁

[Flippy]

8 minutes ago, Snarff said:

The fun thing to me is that there are so many differences within the species. Duardin aren't just one unified species, they are multiple extremely different (aesthetically, culturally and gameplay wise) factions within a species. Same thing with Aelves, Humans, etc. Even in WFB humans weren't just 'one species = one army' (bretonnia, empire, kislev, norsca, etc.) leading to them being much more fleshed out than if they just threw all those armies together under the banner 'Humans'.

Besides the obvious balance issues and gameplay homogenisation throwing everything together brings, merging things just because 'they are the same species' really detracts from the setting IMO. Duardin gained so much identity with their distinct AoS factions. Steampunk sky pirate rules lawyers and maniacal blazing warrior-monks riding dragons is not something you'd see more than a single unit of in a traditional boringly over-conservative dwarf army. Armies like Gloomspite and Flesh Eater Courts are thriving and beloved because they get their actual own unique lore now instead of being a small part of an army.

Part of what made CoS so beloved is their multi-species nature (which they hopefully double down on in the next wave). Segregating or combining armies purely based on species is boring. Optional armies which are not the focus of balance (like legion of the first prince)? Fine, as long as GW doesn't force the merging on everyone.

I'm not opposed to that. Still, if the question is "why is Malerion even associated with DoS?" then the answer is rather obvious.

Referring to your examples - KO and Fyreslayers are very different, but they are still racially homogeneous factions. The same approach is used for Destruction (even more than in WHFB) and Death (FEC are not so different from SBGL, I agree). Chaos is clearly a different story (always was). The whole Order (with the sole exception of CoS) is also divided by species.

So, where should we put Malerion then? For me its either Druchii united (DoK + CoS elements + new models) or new (fourth) purely elven faction (Shadow Elves). Pick your poison.

[Lucentia]

It might be worth noting that Morathi and Malerion do not really get along at all, they may work together out of convenience and proximity, but what we've seen relationship in AoS doesn't really suggest combined forces to me.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but in my mind the easiest way to square the circle is to have Malerion exist in a shadowy form which does not and cannot exist in a truly physical way, have him doing whatever weird, eldritch stuff in the background, so powerful that he no longer needs to care about mortal armies, and then have Morathi repeat her original scam when she took over the DoK cult; claim to be the true mouthpiece of Malerion and manipulate his followers to her ends.  This way neither of them comes across is incompetent, and it neatly explains away where Malerion hasn't done anything obvious for, like, eight years. 

[Clan's Cynic]

Metawatch time.

Battlescroll PDF.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[mojojojo101]

42 minutes ago, Swamp Trogg said:

While I agree with all that, I still think there isn't enough room for yet an other evil goth simili elves army in the game. And neither Morathi or Malerion would lose much with a merging.

Because design wise, there isn't enough room for two emo goth elves armies in the game. 

 

Leave these room for evil top hat wearing Duardins.

 

We deserve it. 

 

Vote for the Father of Darkness 😁

I think there is plenty of room for both Morathi and Malerion to exist together. Morathi and DoK as blood worshipping gladiators and Malerion as whatever his wierd shadow creatures end up being. There seems to me to be loads of design space for Malerion to take, both narratively and in terms of gameplay.

I'd disagree that neither lose much, I think Morathi's arc through AoS is diminished significantly by being folded into a faction with another Aelven god. Even ignoring that, its not exactly like they gain much by merging either.

 

As for Hashut...

Crack on dude, I don't really see any real reason why another nominally Aelven Order faction has any affect on whether Chaos Duardin show up.

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Flippy said:

Since you consistently refuse to use his name  I assume you are not really interested in hearing any answers 😄

I simply forgot whether it was Malakith or Malarion

[Snarff]

52 minutes ago, Flippy said:

I'm not opposed to that. Still, if the question is "why is Malerion even associated with DoS?" then the answer is rather obvious.

Referring to your examples - KO and Fyreslayers are very different, but they are still racially homogeneous factions. The same approach is used for Destruction (even more than in WHFB) and Death (FEC are not so different from SBGL, I agree). Chaos is clearly a different story (always was). The whole Order (with the sole exception of CoS) is also divided by species.

So, where should we put Malerion then? For me its either Druchii united (DoK + CoS elements + new models) or new (fourth) purely elven faction (Shadow Elves). Pick your poison.

Things can be divided by species without putting the entirety of a species together is more what I mean. And not just the basic 'good x' vs 'evil x', but multiple fleshed out flavours of both.

I'm definitely on the new faction side when it comes to Malerion though. I'd find it much more exciting for DoK to keep their strong murder blood cult queens identity which would definitely be diluted by being merged with another deity's army right after the apotheosis of Morathi.

Malerions design space is also way too interesting. Draconic Aelves, Shadow Demons, more focus on Ulguan sorcery.

Refresh the covens/privateers for CoS, refresh witch Aelves for DoK, and go wild with Malerions Aelves is my preference. I wouldn't mind units like the Shadeborn being multi-faction though.

[ScionOfOssia]

36 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Metawatch time.

Battlescroll PDF.

Their solution to the problem posed by the Immortis Guard was far more elegant than I expected, although it looks like they haven’t realized that the reason people aren’t using the Gothizzar isn’t because it’s too expensive, it’s because its warscroll ability sucks. This will probably somewhat lower Ossiarch winrates, but I don’t think it’ll put them below 50%. 

[Public Universal Duardin]

11 hours ago, The Wah said:

The coming of King Trugg made me think of the other destruction Kings and suddenly the idea of the
AoS version of the Christmas carol “We Three Kings” came to me.

So this happened...

🎶Three Twisted Kings🎶

(sung to 'We Three Kings')

 

King Brodd of the Gargants, vengeance in sight,
Obelisk wielded, he joins in the fight.
Almighty stomping, battlefield shaking,
Foes to be crushing, revenge to be taking.

(Chorus) Ohhhh,
Bad Moon above, guiding the fray,
Three twisted kings will have their say.
Loonking, Gargants, and Troggoth might,
Bound by Da Moon on this fateful night.

(Chorus)

Loonking Skragrott, small yet so sly,
Moon Onna Stikk, held up to the sky.
The Loonking's Entreaty, guiding Da Moon,
Under its glow, his Gitz bring the doom.

(Chorus)

King Trugg awakens, fierce and so grand,
Ironshell Club clenched in his hand.
Leystone malfunction, migraine rage,
Wandering leylines, a king’s rampage.

(Chorus)

Three kings diverse, yet under one boon,
Guided eternal by the shifting Bad Moon.
Though each seeks his own, in this dark affair,
Bound by Da Bad Moon, that hangs in the air.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh,
Bad Moon leavin, dawn drawing near,
But it’s madcap pull, will always be here,
Loonking, and Gargants, and Troggoth might,
Will follow Da Moon, night after night.

—-
And so, King Brodd, Skragrott the Loonking, and King Trugg move under the twisted, leering faces of Da Bad Moon. Their uneasy alliance a testament to the Moon’s chaotic allure, each vying for its errant blessing. 

Posts like this is why I come to tga, the best place on the Internet

[DeLewko]

Coming out after Vinces show, Imo FEC is going to be the same pattern as STD release if we get a launch box. If not they will release Jan/Feb. Book 4 is not coming before that but will be released before Addepticon, therefore late Feb early March release. Spring is packed with 40k codexes so i would assume nothing for AOS unless we get book 5 which is not out of the question. 

I like the idea about Morathi making moves and if she does that is book 4 leading to her getting slapped and calling for Malerions aid tho setting him up in the new edition. 

We also got hints about new Melusai that she is working on, which could be perfect new wave for the army. Something like new wave for IJ.

Edited September 14, 2023 by DeLewko

[Thaliontil]

I don't think it means anything, but when speaking about the changes to rupture, Nick speaks about the interaction with "the old Incarnate of Ghur", perhaps pointing inadvertently to a new, let's say spiderish, one?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/14/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-metawatch-change-comes-to-andtor/

(First minute, more or less)

Probably just a comment on the relative age of the miniature, but found it curious.

[Flippy]

19 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Things can be divided by species without putting the entirety of a species together is more what I mean. And not just the basic 'good x' vs 'evil x', but multiple fleshed out flavours of both.

I'm definitely on the new faction side when it comes to Malerion though. I'd find it much more exciting for DoK to keep their strong murder blood cult queens identity which would definitely be diluted by being merged with another deity's army right after the apotheosis of Morathi.

Malerions design space is also way too interesting. Draconic Aelves, Shadow Demons, more focus on Ulguan sorcery.

Refresh the covens/privateers for CoS, refresh witch Aelves for DoK, and go wild with Malerions Aelves is my preference. I wouldn't mind units like the Shadeborn being multi-faction though.

This sounds interesting, but also brings us to a different topic altogether. How many factions (and specifically elf factions) is too many? Three Dark Elf forces sound like a lot.

[Snarff]

Just now, Flippy said:

This sounds interesting, but also brings us to a different topic altogether. How many factions (and specifically elf factions) is too many? Three Dark Elf forces sound like a lot.

That topic is definitely a controversial one. I'm of the opinion that the more factions the merrier, but there is a limit of course. But the rumour thread is already getting derailed, so let's not get into that.

But we don't have an issue of 3 dark Aelf factions. Idoneth are something distinctly different. Mandatorily soul-stealing cryptic deep-sea raiders that are still allied to Order factions doesn't scream dark Aelf to me. Scourge Privateers are a part of CoS, so not really a faction by itself and also nothing like the slavers that WFB delves used to be. Scoundrels sometimes, yes, but operating within free cities.

Malerion and Morathi are plenty different though. From what we've seen hinted of Malerion, it's been Shadow Demons, his draconic looks, but not much more. He's not had any real presence yet, people just want classic Dark Elves back. Though I hope they'll do something much more interesting with Malerion.

[Snarff]

13 minutes ago, Thaliontil said:

I don't think it means anything, but when speaking about the changes to rupture, Nick speaks about the interaction with "the old Incarnate of Ghur", perhaps pointing inadvertently to a new, let's say spiderish, one?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/14/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-metawatch-change-comes-to-andtor/

(First minute, more or less)

Probably just a comment on the relative age of the miniature, but found it curious.

It feels like Incarnates were going to be this BIG thing, but nothing really happened after. I think it's inevitable that at least one more will release, hopefully more for other realms as well. They make great display/terrain pieces if nothing else.