The Rumour Thread

[Freemeta]

Alarielle or Kurnoth could turn the wanderers into faun, centaur to grant them forgivness or use them to make a ritual sarifice bringing back Kurnoth etc. this could be anything, they need to write some obscure sentence about wanderers leaving cities because they are nomad etc.

 

[JackStreicher]

My two cents on the Blacktalons and named characters:

Named Characters: They are very cool, however from a narrative standpoint it makes no sense to have a singular character be part of every small, unimportant battle - that’s why I don’t like playing them all the time. It’s also hard to justify their presence in 90% of the bigger battles. The Blacktalons however I would even use in my PtG Campaign since they‘ve been sent by Sigmar to support my Dawnbringer Crusade.

Matched Play: As @Beliman pointed out AoS‘s ( named ) characters are nothing but tools, a warscroll and stats to be used - it itches me a lot. Up to this day I‘ve played my Morathi TWICE (i started AoS with the reveal of DoK, I used to play WHF before) since I was sick and tired of seeing her in every list, every battle report, the unending repetition of the same makes me sad.
 

I miss the times when heroes weren’t tools for buffs or to unlock a battleline option. I miss being able to actually customize my heroes which in return enforces the use of named characters. The biggest indicator of what I dislike about the current generic heroes is that they are underwhelming and forgettable in games (vampire lords used to be scary, they are a pathetic buff vehicle now, quite hard to write an epic battle report with such an exchangeable character)

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by JackStreicher

[MitGas]

12 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

My two cents on the Blacktalons and named characters:

Named Characters: They are very cool, however from a narrative standpoint it makes no sense to have a singular character be part of every small, unimportant battle - that’s why I don’t like playing them all the time. It’s also hard to justify their presence in 90% of the bigger battles. The Blacktalons however I would even use in my PtG Campaign since they‘ve been sent by Sigmar to support my Dawnbringer Crusade.

Matched Play: As @Beliman pointed out AoS‘s ( named ) characters are nothing but tools, a warscroll and stats to be used - it itches me a lot. Up to this day I‘ve played my Morathi TWICE (i started AoS with the reveal of DoK, I used to play WHF before) since I was sick and tired of seeing her in every list, every battle report, the unending repetition of the same makes me sad.
 

I miss the times when heroes weren’t tools for buffs or to unlock a battleline option. I miss being able to actually customize my heroes which in return enforces the use of named characters. The biggest indicator of what I dislike about the current generic heroes is that they are underwhelming and forgettable in games (vampire lords used to be scary, they are a pathetic buff vehicle now, quite hard to write an epic battle report with such an exchangeable character)

 

Loving the point you've made! Yeah, when I started you could create your own heroes and frankly they were just as powerful as the special characters. I miss that as it gave your army another personal note. Or you could just be a powergamer and make a Khorne-Lord that had 10 attacks with WS 10 and kill whole units and would reliably rob Arbaal of his title in 1v1 as Arbaal's 2D6 attacks were unlikely to be better than 10. 😁 I feel like vanilla heroes should be more a bit more customizable than they are now.

[novakai]

Yeah it get a little too much when a named character has been made or buff to a point that any list has them because they are extremely powerful or integral to your army strength.

my example would the Silent King when Necrons where a middling army but with him they where one of the best army at that time. I remember a narrative 40K event  I was watching and like every Necron army (being a pretty  popular army) had a silent king with them. It like wow this planet is being seige by ten silent kings lol.

there also some case where some named  heroes like Gobsprakk where he the only profile in Kruleboyz for a spellcaster on Vulcha because his alternative build is the melee version or like Avalenor and Sevireth who only build into generic units and not heroes. Even recently with Tahlia being only a unique model that doesn’t dual build into anything. Sometime you wish GW gave you more options to generic heroes in these cases.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by novakai

[Baz]

23 minutes ago, Freemeta said:

Alarielle or Kurnoth could turn the wanderers into faun, centaur to grant them forgivness or use them to make a ritual sarifice bringing back Kurnoth etc. this could be anything, they need to write some obscure sentence about wanderers leaving cities because they are nomad etc.

 

They have been forgiven by Alarielle so they are half way there. 

[Jagged Red Lines]

3 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I really don't get why people shun the Blacktalons.

It's because they're portrayed like the norse einherjar, sent from valhalla and wreathed in elemental lightning as they fight.

Instead what we get is a standard warrior in immaculate, generic-looking fantasy armour. 

Part of the problem is because GW is drawing on their experience with space marines. With SM, they're deliberately offered up as a blank canvas, in order to appeal to the widest audience. You can have viking marines, roman marines, mongolian marines etc.

Because stormcast are the poster faction in AoS, in the initial design philosophy you can see they were also deliberately trying to keep them quite bland. Then, perhaps realising the base kits weren't quite as customisable, they later offered robed wizard stormcast, then more savage-looking stormcast, to provide more flavours for different players.

With the move to thunderstrike, you can see they're trying to standardise the theme again but perhaps this time giving them more character. It's my hope they lean into that.

Make them look more like this. Let's go full Thor Ragnarok with them.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Jagged Red Lines

[bethebee]

2 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

Oh 100%

Just funny that GW put them in Cities when Sylyaneth could of really used more units. Then gave them some lore, a city, and even a entire book.......................... just cut them with no in game explanation lol.

i just wish they were cut with a bit more pride to it.  i understand that it's awkward addressing every unit removal but at least give them something; you could almost make it like a bittersweet farewell with another reference in the rules.

"The small districts within the Cities of Sigmar which acted as rest-stops for the nomadic Wanderers quickly fell dormant overnight.  What once were bustling centers of trade quickly became abandoned homes, dusty market stalls, and worn stone squares.  These places quickly became hot-spots for the growth of wild flora and fauna within the walls of the cities, and while some have (unsuccessfully) tried to remove this, many more have converted these spots into farmland or perhaps even the occasional park.  Some theorize that the Wanderers were called back to the wilderness by the Rite of Life, risking the ire of the Slyvaneth to make the forests their home once more.  Others say that, much like the Cities have crusaded outwards to reclaim the realms, the Wanderers have done much of the same, looking to cut out a piece of the realms to cleanse and keep for themselves.  Many more say they simply disappeared into the night, having been nothing more than helpful spirits of the realm guiding the cities through their initial times of hardships.  Whatever the truth may be, they have grown into icons of history and endless mythos; some Dawnbringer soldiers even tell tales of them appearing once more from the forests of the realm to save some crusades at their most dire moments."

Human Artefact -
Spiral-Marked Map
A gift from allies who have since left their side, this moss-covered map reveals pathways through the realms invisible to the naked eye.
This model can be set up anywhere wholey within 6" of the board edge.

[Rachmani]

I took an AoS break to play & build some 40k, and I have to admit, that while 40k makes me build an army (and that’s it), AoS makes me want to tell stories. New CoS. The Blacktalons. Converting the special lady to a marshall on „lion headed gryphon“, that rumored troll, a giant… . The game has a lot going for it and feels very fresh.

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, Baz said:

They have been forgiven by Alarielle so they are half way there. 

I like how much of current Aelven lore is simply, these armies can be souped but they hate each other. Idoneth are like my favourite Order army narratively due to how they essentially can sensibly align with practically any Aelven faction, but have a once bitten twice shy relationship to the Aelf Gods... also they are creepy sea people. I also think their stealing souls kind puts them on the outs with other Order Factions.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Neverchosen

[Twisted Firaun]

1 hour ago, Rachmani said:

I took an AoS break to play & build some 40k, and I have to admit, that while 40k makes me build an army (and that’s it), AoS makes me want to tell stories. New CoS. The Blacktalons. Converting the special lady to a marshall on „lion headed gryphon“, that rumored troll, a giant… . The game has a lot going for it and feels very fresh.

The ability to craft meaningful stories is one of AOS’ strength. It’s why their Tale of 4 Warlords segments are better than 40K’s. The writers just have to avoid the trap of emulating the latter to draw customers to the former and all will be well.

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

I like how much of current Aelven lore is simply, these armies can be souped but they hate each other. Idoneth are like my favourite Order army narratively due to how they essentially can sensibly align with practically any Aelven faction, but have a once bitten twice shy relationship to the Aelf Gods... also they are creepy sea people. I also think their stealing souls kind puts them on the outs with other Order Factions.

To be fair to the Idoneth, they’re the only soul-telling faction that actually have a legit reason for stealing souls (stormcasts don’t count, since Sigmar technically robbed whole civilizations of the people who could’ve saved them). As for them being on the outs with the rest of the “alliance,” that’s true for every faction involved. 
Morathi’s pissed off Sigmar (and parts of her own faction) following Broken Realms, while Teclis scarred the Idoneth for eternity and no one knows what Malerions up to.

Meanwhile Allariele is angry cause Greywater Fastness is turning a part of her realm into the new Nuln, and who knows where that’ll lead. The Dawi are viewed as either money hungry opportunists, or steadfast allies with no wiggle room, but hopefully Gotrek and Grombrindal will sort out the internal and external issues. Finally the Stormcast are being stretched so thin that the flaws inherent in their creation are starting to outweigh their positives, leading them to become more of a defensive asset then an offensive one (which brings about a whole new mess of issues). 
In short, if at least half of the order factions are not angry with you, then you’re doing something wrong. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Twisted Firaun

[Rachmani]

7 hours ago, Twisted Firaun said:

The ability to craft meaningful stories is one of AOS’ strength. It’s why their Tale of 4 Warlords segments are better than 40K’s. The writers just have to avoid the trap of emulating the latter to draw customers to the former and all will be well.

To be fair to the Idoneth, they’re the only soul-telling faction that actually have a legit reason for stealing souls (stormcasts don’t count, since Sigmar technically robbed whole civilizations of the people who could’ve saved them). As for them being on the outs with the rest of the “alliance,” that’s true for every faction involved. 
Morathi’s pissed off Sigmar (and parts of her own faction) following Broken Realms, while Teclis scarred the Idoneth for eternity and no one knows what Malerions up to.

Meanwhile Allariele is angry cause Greywater Fastness is turning a part of her realm into the new Nuln, and who knows where that’ll lead. The Dawi are viewed as either money hungry opportunists, or steadfast allies with no wiggle room, but hopefully Gotrek and Grombrindal will sort out the internal and external issues. Finally the Stormcast are being stretched so thin that the flaws inherent in their creation are starting to outweigh their positives, leading them to become more of a defensive asset then an offensive one (which brings about a whole new mess of issues). 
In short, if at least half of the order factions are not angry with you, then you’re doing something wrong. 

All true - but I'm happy that "Order" is structured that way. I love how good intentions and horrible failures are dancing a tango for two here.

[Skreech Verminking]

11 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I miss the times when heroes weren’t tools for buffs or to unlock a battleline option. I miss being able to actually customize my heroes which in return enforces the use of named characters. The biggest indicator of what I dislike about the current generic heroes is that they are underwhelming and forgettable in games (vampire lords used to be scary, they are a pathetic buff vehicle now, quite hard to write an epic battle report with such an exchangeable character)

 

I agree, I actually miss differences between heroes on foot and such.

I mean currently an untrained goblin hero, is capable in hitting and wounding their enemy as good and with as many attacks as a few humdred year old vampire lord who never stopped training his swordsmanship.

I don't think that is lore friendly.

 

[Ejecutor]

19 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I agree, I actually miss differences between heroes on foot and such.

I mean currently an untrained goblin hero, is capable in hitting and wounding their enemy as good and with as many attacks as a few humdred year old vampire lord who never stopped training his swordsmanship.

I don't think that is lore friendly.

 

If all the units would have to be played based on its lore, the game would be unplayable. Imagine stuff like Kragnos, Archaon, Teclis, Nagash... on the table they would be able to kill easily thousand of points, if the game would follow its lore in a complete accurate way.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ejecutor

[JackStreicher]

21 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

If all the units would have to be played based on its lore, the game would be unplayable. Imagine stuff like Kragnos, Archaon, Teclis, Nagash... on the table they would be able to kill easily thousand of points, if the game would follow its lore in a complete accurate way.

This counts mostly for gods.

To make the game playable such would need to be tuned down or solve it creatively (Aspects of the gods fighting instead of the whole god)

The majority of other units would be just fine (they even nailed Gotrek which is a powerhouse)

imo they‘ve sacrificed too much of Warhammer‘s soul to create tech-pieces.

Edited August 10, 2023 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, Twisted Firaun said:

The ability to craft meaningful stories is one of AOS’ strength.

I‘d disagree. In whf (the game was generally bad imo) heroes could truly shine by performing heroic deeds like an Empire Captain slaying a Vampire Lord due to unreasonable luck, also heroes usually didn’t die all the time. If a Freeguild marshal slays a vamp nowadays it’s a whatever moment, their stats are basically the same, whoever will strike first has a good chance of killing the other, so it’s boring. Heroes aren’t special anymore, they’re just slightly varying stats granting slightly varying buffs. If one wants interesting rules one has to pick a named hero - if they do something heroic nobody cares, it just adds to their tally.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘d disagree. In whf (the game was generally bad imo) heroes could truly shine by performing heroic deeds like an Empire Captain slaying a Vampire Lord due to unreasonable luck, also heroes usually didn’t die all the time. If a Freeguild marshal slays a vamp nowadays it’s a whatever moment, their stats are basically the same, whoever will strike first has a good chance of killing the other, so it’s boring. Heroes aren’t special anymore, they’re just slightly varying stats granting slightly varying buffs. If one wants interesting rules one has to pick a named hero - if they do something heroic nobody cares, it just adds to their tally.

What he means is that in AoS you have more liberty to craft your own stories. In WFB every corner of the map was occupied by someone, and that someone had some kind of lore about him about why he was there, what he was doing there and the customs and traditions of the people living there. You had little space for yourself and if you did go homebrew it was always going to be a low stakes off-shoot in a place nobody cared like the Border Princes or a random expedition/mercenary company or whatever. That's why you almost always saw people going with the official colour schemes and not homebrew ones because "your homebrew colour scheme is unfriendly unless you have a tangible (read : short story level) backstory for why you dudes are like that ! Also Stirland is yellow and green, not like you painted !"

At least in AoS you have large swathes of the Realms that are essentially blank or vaguely described so you can create your own narratives inside with your own subfactions. In AoS, you and your pals can fight over an entire continent with their homebrew armies. In WFB, you would need to fight over a county or a town to be homebrew and still "respect the wider lore"...

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

What he means is that in AoS you have more liberty to craft your own stories. In WFB every corner of the map was occupied by someone, and that someone had some kind of lore about him about why he was there, what he was doing there and the customs and traditions of the people living there. You had little space for yourself and if you did go homebrew it was always going to be a low stakes off-shoot in a place nobody cared like the Border Princes or a random expedition/mercenary company or whatever. That's why you almost always saw people going with the official colour schemes and not homebrew ones because "your homebrew colour scheme is unfriendly unless you have a tangible (read : short story level) backstory for why you dudes are like that ! Also Stirland is yellow and green, not like you painted !"

At least in AoS you have large swathes of the Realms that are essentially blank or vaguely described so you can create your own narratives inside with your own subfactions. In AoS, you and your pals can fight over an entire continent with their homebrew armies. In WFB, you would need to fight over a county or a town to be homebrew and still "respect the wider lore"...

This reminds me to the comment about Blaktalon Squad having Ghyran like bases. In fact, the AoS universe is so bast that every single realm has every possible look. So any basing style could fit any realm.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

also heroes usually didn’t die all the time.

I hope that 4.0 let as use "attached Characters" rules with some type of Challenge/Duel (Command or Heroic Action).
Let our Heroes take good melee artifacts and traits and fight an honorable duel without being mounted on a 10 wounds monster!

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

If all the units would have to be played based on its lore, the game would be unplayable

I disagree.

if the books didn’t follow some sort of lore (except that of the stormcast because it would be kinda stupid if we follow the lore of the beginning of aos where basically they could not lose) the armies would be incredible boring.

just look at the skaven battletome.

it is absolutely a mance, badly written and not well thought out.

it feels like as if I’m playing a waldorf school on the tabletop

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Beliman said:

I hope that 4.0 let as use "attached Characters" rules with some type of Challenge/Duel (Command or Heroic Action).
Let our Heroes take good melee artifacts and traits and fight an honorable duel without being mounted on a 10 wounds monster!

Just the psychic stuff they did for 40k is something I really hope we won’t see.

 

[JackStreicher]

48 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Just the psychic stuff they did for 40k is something I really hope we won’t see.

Agreed, psychers are somewhat redundant and not special anymore.

[Rachmani]

I think the magic phase of AoS has much more to it than the PSI Phase of 40k ever had (slight exaggeration). 
But as the AoS team doubles down on magic, I don't see that go away.

But I would very much like for foot heroes to join units. That's one of the better aspects of 10th edition so far.

[Umjammerlama]

I would like it if the spells were on individual cards rather than on the warscrolls. A throwback to fantasy battles. 

[RyantheFett]

2 hours ago, Umjammerlama said:

I would like it if the spells were on individual cards rather than on the warscrolls. A throwback to fantasy battles. 

Based off of how GW been doing with their games there is a very good chance that will happen as well as the removal of the spell phase.

40k's new edition stole a lot from Sigmar so expect the new edition of Sigmar to do the same. The Cities leaks has strong "Hey can I copy your homework?" "yeah but change it a bit so it's not obvious you copied" vibe to it.

[Asbestress]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/10/tour-the-cities-of-sigmar-and-see-the-wonders-of-the-mortal-realms/

And that's 3 out of 4 days with a CoS article. I really feel the Army Set could be out this month. Or maybe not, who knows? 😛