The Rumour Thread

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

Listen to the interview. The combination of the points changes and the rules change is to encourage people to move away from the castle build without nerfing the whole faction too much. Whether that works out remains to be seen but the logic is sound. 

 

7 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Most of Lumineth are in a really bad spot outside of that one Teclis shooting list nobody likes.

Not even sure if the point changes are enough to really do anything (they seem meh)? Maybe the book will help with that, but not sure. Some factions are just broken and will have to just hold out for the new edition next year.

Sorry my (admittedly very knee ******) reaction was more about fyreslayers than lumineth. I play both and I get why the lumineth units that got reductions got them. Not to mention the last 1500 point lumineth list I used just dropped by 70 points so I’m not about to argue with it! 
 

I expect fyreslayers will be alright in the end, they’re quite a robust army. But given the amount they’ve lost from the last ghb (no Galletian veterans, look out sir’s new rules aren’t quite as good as not being targetable at all) seeing only point increases was a big oof from me.

[Vasshpit]

17 minutes ago, YoghurtKobold said:

How are you finding Snarlfangs in KB lists? Want to add them ‘cause they look cool but they don’t seem to add anything significant.

It's all theory crafting at this point for me. I'm still working on mine and I lost my hobby space, Diablo 4 dropped as well so hobby time has taken a back seat for awhile.

I am anxious to give them a go though!

Annnd the same artist sculpted the Kruleboyz grots as well i believe so simple rule of cool applies. 😁

I'll definitely post more info when I have some. I think they're an over looked unit definitely. 

[RyantheFett]

11 minutes ago, Azamar said:

 

Sorry my (admittedly very knee ******) reaction was more about fyreslayers than lumineth. I play both and I get why the lumineth units that got reductions got them. Not to mention the last 1500 point lumineth list I used just dropped by 70 points so I’m not about to argue with it! 
 

I expect fyreslayers will be alright in the end, they’re quite a robust army. But given the amount they’ve lost from the last ghb (no Galletian veterans, look out sir’s new rules aren’t quite as good as not being targetable at all) seeing only point increases was a big oof from me.

I feel for your fyreslayers and hope them the best. My friend I play against loves taking his Death factions and seeing stuff like zombies only go up by 5 points is so triggering.

At least I can hope that my Cities come out as broken as the last few factions lol.....

[Doko]

7 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

I feel for your fyreslayers and hope them the best. My friend I play against loves taking his Death factions and seeing stuff like zombies only go up by 5 points is so triggering.

At least I can hope that my Cities come out as broken as the last few factions lol.....

zombies are useless now and must have got a decrease and not increase, now they only do mortals if the zombi is wholy within 3" making umplayable units of 20+ zombis

[The Red King]

I don't understand at all. They raised the points on beasts of chaos spawn by 15 points, but nobody is taking spawn unless they're spamming the morghurite chaos spawn who are not the same thing and have their own separate points cost...

I thought they gave up on 5 point changes because they knew they were pointless and yet that's most all of what beasts got? And most of them point increases to a faction that really isn't showing up competitively except to absolutely spam ungor raiders.

Cockatrice points nerf after they already errata'd it to be unspammable means you're paying 120 points for a literal 50/50 chance at a debuff? Seems pointless but we always knew it'd get nerfed for the sin of being allied to better factions.

All in all a very disheartening change for beasts. Goonhammer said it pretty well imo.

 

Guess I like coherency and look out sir changes but with no fight in two ranks 32mm units are still severely hamstrung.

Edited July 6, 2023 by The Red King

[Grimrock]

I'm sorry to hear that a number of factions are having issues, but the changes for the factions I'm playing are pretty spicy. Maggotkin got some significant drops on units that really needed it, primarily the daemon side. Pretty much my whole befouling host list went down in points and I've got room for a whole extra unit now. The Glottkin going down another 50 points is surprising as well, when I first saw them I figured they were about 100-150 points too expensive, but I never really thought that GW would actually drop their points that much. I'll definitely need to give them another run. 

Hedonite changes are minor but well targeted. Most of the stuff that's pretty good got a slight nerf and a number of unexciting units got decent price reductions. The changes will drop a reinforcement off my list which kind of hurts but doesn't seem too bad. 

Slaves changes are kind of wild. They seem to be pushing pretty hard to get people running despoilers by slashing monster costs pretty dramatically and giving us 70 point battleline units again. Not sure if it'll do the trick, daemon princes are pretty meh even with a 20 point drop, but 160 for a slaughterbrute or vortext beast and 240 for the manticores is definitely interesting when they all get +2 wounds. Big point drops on the endless spells combined with a couple little drops on heroes can effectively make the endless spell specific grand strategy pretty close to free which is interesting. The only thing I don't really like is the increase in points for chaos marauders combined with drops to a number of the cultist units. The marauders were already too expensive, and now they're also 20 points more expensive than units that are just strictly better than them. Really seems like GW is trying to soft delete them from the game. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Grimrock

[Ganigumo]

33 minutes ago, YoghurtKobold said:

How are you finding Snarlfangs in KB lists? Want to add them ‘cause they look cool but they don’t seem to add anything significant.

Kruleboyz are very slow, most of the army only has move 5, and the stuff that is faster is generally too valuable to throw away. Snarlfangs are good at running up to screen and zone off your army, and grabbing objectives that would be tough to get to otherwise unless you risk and important piece.

1 minute ago, Doko said:

zombies are useless now and must have got a decrease and not increase, now they only do mortals if the zombi is wholy within 3" making umplayable units of 20+ zombis

I disagree that they're useless. For a start pretty much everything with the summonable keyword in that book was undercosted, and you're still getting 30 wounds for 120 points. You're not going to freely kill stuff like maw krushas and stonehorns anymore, but it will still be very effective against hammers with bigger footprints like infantry and cavalry units. Zombies were ridiculously out of line for a unit that is basically just supposed to be a big wound sink, and they're still pretty deadly for that, and still seem pretty efficient when compared to other similar units like clanrats and grots. IMO the only way they stop seeing play is if one of the other similar units in the book is still overtuned.

 

 

4 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't understand at all. They raised the points on beasts of chaos spawn by 15 points, but nobody is taking spawn unless they're spamming the morghurite chaos spawn who are not the same thing and have their own separate points cost...

Wouldn't be the first time they put the wrong points on a unit for that book. Remember enlightened on foot?
I bet it was supposed to be the morgurites ones.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

40 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I thought they gave up on 5 point changes because they knew they were pointless and yet that's most all of what beasts got? And most of them point increases to a faction that really isn't showing up competitively except to absolutely spam ungor raiders.

If you look at the 5 point changes, they are all placed to remove 5 point increments from list building. Maybe they aren't in the right direction, fine. But you can't give up on 5 point increments and not make 5 point changes to the books that had them.

[Doko]

oh also fyreslayers got other two extra nerfs.

 

now vulkites attack when die got a huge nerf

 

flamekeeper hability got other huge nerf and now only affect models died by attacks or habilitys and not every model died.

 

so if it isnt enougth be a army without mages,have vulkites with base 30 and only 1" range,and also a middle tier army with only nerfs in points,now also extra nerfs to habilitys also......

[RyantheFett]

Man that Helon change. Makes me wonder how bad a hit Lumineth will take in their win rate since those double shots were really carrying the army.

Wardens really need to come down in points or to get something.

Edited July 6, 2023 by RyantheFett

[GenericEdgyName]

I can talk about some things about seraphon changes. First off, Trog bomb is gone! Kroak got much less of a point increase than I and many expected, but the actual balance of him hides in the change to arcane vassal. I'm overall very happy as those changes bring coalesced and starborne closer to being internally balanced. Stegadons might actually be worth it now and saurus are in my opinion, a steal at 180 pts. Can't wait to make up some more coalesced lists! And hopefully with trog bomb gone, lizards lose the reputation of a powerhouse faction

[Gitzdee]

What do we think about Bonesplitterz getting no changes at all? Even Spiderfang got point drops. Kruleboyz and Ironjawz got extra battle tactics. Could they be the target of Dawnbringer book 2 or just forgotten?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Jagged Red Lines]

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Edited July 6, 2023 by Jagged Red Lines

[Flippy]

13 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

What do we think about Bonesplitterz getting no changes at all?

Never heard of such faction.

😢

[YoghurtKobold]

Well I will be repeating myself but I think that Bonesplitters will leave AoS for ToW. We know that orcs will return as one of The old world factions and it looks like TOW will heavily rely on older kits. Bonesplitters have no AoS models with the exception of Underworld warband. All their models will most likely be perfectly usable in TOW. And I think that GW is slowly scraping old kits that belong to TOW. According to rumours Wanderers won’t make the cut either which isn’t surprising since WE will be in TOW and proper AoS Kurnothi are approaching. So I think that GW will use orruk Dawnbringer book or maybe some later update to remove Bonesplitters from the setting.

[Kitsumy]

40 minutes ago, GenericEdgyName said:

I can talk about some things about seraphon changes. First off, Trog bomb is gone! Kroak got much less of a point increase than I and many expected, but the actual balance of him hides in the change to arcane vassal. I'm overall very happy as those changes bring coalesced and starborne closer to being internally balanced. Stegadons might actually be worth it now and saurus are in my opinion, a steal at 180 pts. Can't wait to make up some more coalesced lists! And hopefully with trog bomb gone, lizards lose the reputation of a powerhouse faction

u meant RIP kroak lists? and was the only playable list, still far worst than the 5-6 last broken books. and it has been totally deleted. list went up by 100+ points, only on kroak, guards and skinks that would have been enough hit,but deleting the troglodon ability totally destroyed the list,,now kroak castle( kroak+astrolyth+5-10guards) must be at 18" of 3 enemy units to start doing something.

it went back cloose to previous 3.0 kroak levels( not used).

in contrast coalesced side got sligth decreases, around 3-10%... not cloose enough, that side needed a 20-40% decrease minimun.

only rigth thing is whole book is more balanced. only good list got destroyed and unplayable lists now is playable at casual games, still far from tourney levels.

 

how can skinks cost 90p in a world where zombyes cost 120??? i expected them going down to his intended 60-70p, instead going up lol 

and gw forgot the -100p on troglodon now it went back to be useless like has been since fantasy

[novakai]

39 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

What do we think about Bonesplitterz getting no changes at all? Even Spiderfang got point drops. Kruleboyz and Ironjawz got extra battle tactics. Could they be the target of Dawnbringer book 2 or just forgotten?

Not enough data or people playing it to cause problems within the system

that and Dawnbringer books look to be mostly narrative so I doubt they will put much match play changes in thoose book

Edited July 6, 2023 by novakai

[Ganigumo]

17 minutes ago, YoghurtKobold said:

Well I will be repeating myself but I think that Bonesplitters will leave AoS for ToW. We know that orcs will return as one of The old world factions and it looks like TOW will heavily rely on older kits. Bonesplitters have no AoS models with the exception of Underworld warband. All their models will most likely be perfectly usable in TOW. And I think that GW is slowly scraping old kits that belong to TOW. According to rumours Wanderers won’t make the cut either which isn’t surprising since WE will be in TOW and proper AoS Kurnothi are approaching. So I think that GW will use orruk Dawnbringer book or maybe some later update to remove Bonesplitters from the setting.

Personally I doubt it. I know they haven't received a lot of attention in aos, but they did have an underworlds warband and actually had their own battletome.
Also I'm pretty sure those wanderers rumors are bunk. There are just as many warscroll cards in the new cities book as the old one, which means the same number of warscrolls. There are like 13 empire kits currently in production, most of which are probably getting the axe. Maybe the luminarch and steam tank are safe, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything else (even the gryphon and demigryphs). Those 13 kits account for 20 of the 54-55 warscrolls. If you also cut wanderers there would need to be ~26 new warscrolls. The cities release is going to be big, but I don't believe it'll be that big.

32 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

What do we think about Bonesplitterz getting no changes at all? Even Spiderfang got point drops. Kruleboyz and Ironjawz got extra battle tactics. Could they be the target of Dawnbringer book 2 or just forgotten?

Either they don't care or are scared of them being good for some reason. They were good for like 5 minutes because they matched well into nurgle, got some hefty nerfs, then had savage big boss take a huge nerf because of the Galletian Champion rules (that didn't get reverted). Hopefully it means they'll get something new in harbingers, but on the other hand I think the seasonal rules are pretty favorable for them.
The wurgogg's spell dodged the "unmodified casting roll" change, and they have one of the best threat ranges on blizzard with the maniak wierdnob. Give him fast 'un and take great hunter on your big boss and he can move 20" before casting it on t1 for a 32" threat range. You can do it in big Waaagh! too, either with just fast 'un or by using the ironjawz teleport spell on him and then using fast'un to get into position (or retreat if you were close enough after the teleport) .Plus everything in the army loves hoarfrost because they have no rend and hit on 4s.

Also 3 cheers for spiderfang who have restarted the race to the bottom because they couldn't be bothered to rewrite them. I look forward to them being terrible for another 3 years, and spider riders never getting a point drop.

[Satyrical Sophist]

38 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

how can skinks cost 90p in a world where zombyes cost 120??? i expected them going down to his intended 60-70p, instead going up lol 

60 point skinks would be so wildly out of whack with just...everything. In the seraphon thread I went into a lot of this in detail but the points you want for things do not match up with anything in the game. Very few units are anywhere near that cheap and skinks are fast moving and very useful units.

[Kitsumy]

3 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

60 point skinks would be so wildly out of whack with just...everything. In the seraphon thread I went into a lot of this in detail but the points you want for things do not match up with anything in the game. Very few units are anywhere near that cheap and skinks are fast moving and very useful units.

yes and i allready explained the reasons on that post why everything ( besides heros on kroak list)should get reductions.

 

weird thing is most of units i explained got reductions even some weeks only after the release. with only some standouts like sknks. and those weeks numbers reinforced my statement of every non kroak list being useless( noone got even a 4-1 without kroak), and even kroak list not being as broken as some guys claimed( had like 51% winrate, and only 3-4 5/0s, far behind the top 5-6 books).

 

so i nailed most of things. i dont know, maybe im right with skinks points too, no?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Kitsumy

[cyrus]

1 hour ago, YoghurtKobold said:

Well I will be repeating myself but I think that Bonesplitters will leave AoS for ToW. We know that orcs will return as one of The old world factions and it looks like TOW will heavily rely on older kits. Bonesplitters have no AoS models with the exception of Underworld warband. All their models will most likely be perfectly usable in TOW. And I think that GW is slowly scraping old kits that belong to TOW. According to rumours Wanderers won’t make the cut either which isn’t surprising since WE will be in TOW and proper AoS Kurnothi are approaching. So I think that GW will use orruk Dawnbringer book or maybe some later update to remove Bonesplitters from the setting.

Bonesplitterz will stay firmly in AoS my friend!

TOW Orcs & Goblins will be likely to be just commons ( the discontinued greenskins and gitmob  in 2019)

From last Old world article

Even the new Treemen will stay with Sylvaneth while ToW wood elves will keep the classic one in metal.

 

[Ganigumo]

2 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

yes and i allready explained the reasons on that post why everything ( besides heros on kroak list)should get reductions.

 

weird thing is most of units i explained got reductions even some weeks only after the release. with only some standouts like sknks. and those weeks numbers reinforced my statement of every non kroak being useless( noone got even a 4-1 without kroak), and even kroak list not being as broken as some guys claimed( had like 51% winrate, and only 3-4 5/0s, far behind the top 5-6 books).

 

so i nailed everything. i dont know, maybe im right with skinks points like on the remaining 99% claims i did no?

There's an intrinsic value in just existing as a unit, even more so than just as wounds. Even complete garbage units with no buff potential like hobgrots are sitting at 80 points, and they're still regarded as one of the most useful units in that army, because their role is just to exist cheaply.
There's definitely a minimum possible value for a unit in this game, probably around 70-80 points, because any lower and the game falls apart as people flood the map with useless garbage to block movement endlessly.

per the zombie vs skink example:
20 zombies are priced at 120 points (may be undercosted still.. but whatever). But 10 zombies would be criminally undercosted at 60 points, and should probably cost around 80-90, because the base value of being a unit that exists is worth those 20-30 points.

[Ferban]

I watched the MetaWatch video and they talk about Fight on Death changes.  But I'm not seeing it in the Battlescroll that I downloaded from Warhammer Community.  Am I missing it?  

[JackStreicher]

55 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

so i nailed everything. i dont know, maybe im right with skinks points like on the remaining 99% claims i did no?

Claiming to be the all knowing super chad isn’t a good base for a discussion, especially since you are not.

Your damage calculations might be correct, yet you are utterly wrong about how units perform since damage is only one part of the puzzle as is points.

To break it down to a very crude hyperbole: You say bananas should be cheaper because they don’t deal any damage.

 

 

Edit: 60 point skinks mean I will flood the whole board with 200 skinks and I still have 800 points left for the good stuff.

Edited July 6, 2023 by JackStreicher

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

Personally I doubt it. I know they haven't received a lot of attention in aos, but they did have an underworlds warband and actually had their own battletome.

Yes. I don't care how old or neglected your army is, if you had your own battletome, and even still now your own allegiance abilities, you're still golden and you're going nowhere. 

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

Also I'm pretty sure those wanderers rumors are bunk.

Wanderers were some of the last kits to be released for WFB, just right before End Times. Which means they likely come from the same R&D cycle that produced the 1st ed Stormcasts and Khorne worshippers. The Treeman was in there too. They're definitely not old kits, and even if I think they have more place in Sylvaneth than Cities, I don't see them being discontinued.