The Rumour Thread

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

I know there are many that will have kittens at the suggestion, but I still think it would be better for the game as a whole if Duardin (Fyreslayers, Kharadon and Dispossessed) - (As well as other Duardin types) were all presented under one Duardin Battletome. With the emphasis on picking one sub-faction but with less effective soup lists possible. I also think the return of Malerion and the introduction of Shadow elves should be presented alongside the Daughters of Khaine under a single Battletome. 

I'm not a fan of this suggestion, but if that the case, I hope that the same happens to all other civilizations too: all Aelfs (sylvaneth, lumineth, DoK, Idoneth...) mixed in the same battletome, all chaos mortals (khorne, tzeentch, slaanesh, nurgle, StD and BoC), all Greenskins (gloomspite and Orruk warclans), etc...

Not a fan, but if that's what people want, let's put everything in the same ground and move from there.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

2 hours ago, Hollow said:

Agree with this. Age of Sigmar has 24 solid thematic factions. (9 Order, 7 Chaos, 4 Death. 4 Destruction) We are a good year away from the launch of 4th Edition and with Cities and FEC on the horizon, the game will be "complete". By the end of the year.

I really feel like GW was planning to "complete" AoS, ie. give the game a solid backbone and as much content as possible, before the 10 years of the game. When 2025 arrives and we celebrate the 10th anniversary of AoS, I feel like we'll have a game as complete as possible, with the leftovers from WFB kept at a bare minimum. Then what happens next ? Probably some more feshing out.

I really feel like GW is a bit like Marvel with AoS. It works in phases. Either this year, next year or when we hit the 10 year mark, phase 1 will be complete, and we'll move on to phase 2.

Edited July 2, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Nezzhil]

24 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Are you sure about the Kurnothi and Book 3 info? I'll take a Kurnothi warband but I'd love there to be more. 

I'm pretty sure because the confirmed releases during Autumn makes the timeline for the third book very hard to see more big releases with that book. The third book could be like Be'lakor's book on content terms.

Autumn releases:

- Cities of sigmar

- 4 Warcry warbands

- New Underworlds season

- Dawnbringers 2 + Orruk wave

- Dawnbringers 3 + something

- Kill Team new season

- Two more 40k Codex

- New Horus Heresy Primarch and the Knights

- The Battleforces

 

Edit: And we don't know nothing about Necromunda or Blood Bowl 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Nezzhil

[Hollow]

32 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of this suggestion, but if that the case, I hope that the same happens to all other civilizations too: all Aelfs (sylvaneth, lumineth, DoK, Idoneth...) mixed in the same battletome, all chaos mortals (khorne, tzeentch, slaanesh, nurgle, StD and BoC), all Greenskins (gloomspite and Orruk warclans), etc...

Not a fan, but if that's what people want, let's put everything in the same ground and move from there.

The other option is to have Fyreslayers / Duardin stay separate, with Dispossessed collecting dust with cities? I'm not sure what people actually want when it comes to Duardin's representation in the Mortal Realms. If a Battletome is to mainly contain lore and Battle tactics in 4th (With Battlescrolls being on cards and on the app) I would rather a large £40 Duardin Book that covered Duardin of all shapes, and sizes than a £32.50 Battletome for Fyres Slayers, Kharadon, Dispossessed separately. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Hollow

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Tonhel said:

Personally I am looking forward to the rules. I hope they will get the same treatment quality wise as  they did with Middle Earth. It doesn't have to be more than that. Miniature wise, 3d printing has surpassed anything GW can release for the Old World. I have bought lots of STL files / subscribed to different patreons / tribes so I can make beautiful armies for Warhammer the Old World. Lol, I am ready for it.

I.e https://lastsword.com/product/imperial-kindred-dragon-riders/

So I am still looking forward to the Old World, but I will probably not buy any Old World mini's. I's not that I don't like them, but I can get  the same quality or even better with my printer and it's a lot cheaper.

For AoS I am currently not so happy with the rules, Our group is starting to ignore those GHB updates, but miniature wise AoS is still rocking and I don't think STL's are a replacement for it.

Me too. I am hoping the TOW rules will be good. I have 6th and 7th, but a lot of models came out with 8th ed. So it would be nice to have a set of rules to tie it all together. 3rd ed had some fun features that were lost after 4th ed simplifications. My dream rules would be 3rd ed based but with some later ideas included plus the model range of 8th ed. Anyway, just have to wait and see what they have done. If it is not so good, then back to garagehammer.

I agree TOW is going to be a backwater game, alongside MESBG. I think both will be maintained for legal reasons. Warhammer TW is a good source of royalties, so GW needs to keep the IP current. Must be something like that with their ME business. In this regard @KingBrodd is right about the cash grab motive. But it is not quite a direct cash grab.

But that is fine by me. It will have a lot of hype at first, then settle down to being a quiet fringe game. Which is what I want. 

Regarding AoS, it is very well supported by the GW studio. As is 40k. Both become full time jobs for players to keep up with as the rules develop fast. This both keeps the most engaged players satisfied and keeps the cashflow going through new product. The major GW games are very much a case of life in the fast lane.

It might be worth contrasting AoS and WFB design concepts. AoS is a modern system in that it incorporates a MTG like rules synergy concepts (look at SW Legion or ASOIAF for other examples). WFB uses 1960s/70s historical wargame design concepts like panic tests when near by units rout (KoW is also old school). To use a railway analogy, it is like comparing a steam engine with a diesel locomotive.

In fact WFB was obsolete by the time 6th ed was launched. Everyone has their favourite theory why GW canned WFB, but it was too old fashion for modern gamers and just couldn’t attract a sustainable player base. To be honest, it is surprising it lasted as long as it did. And why does anyone play KoW? I guess the reason is that some people like steam locomotives. But that is only going to be a small but dedicated following.

 

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

The other option is to have Fyreslayers / Duardin stay separate, with Dispossessed collecting dust with cities? I'm not sure what people actually want when it comes to Duardin's representation in the Mortal Realms. If a Battletome is to mainly contain lore and Battle tactics in 4th (With Battlescrolls being on cards and on the app) I would rather a large £40 Duardin Book that covered Duardin of all shapes, and sizes than a £32.50 Battletome for Fyres Slayers, Kharadon, Dispossessed separately. 

You have a point on battletomes to reach high numbers and the more battletomes, the more time it takes to update them all when new edition comes.

But

I get the impression that with each Mix Battletome some factions inside that book are neglected. With each additional faction in a book there's greater chance for corner cutting both in terms of rules, content and possible miniature updates.

Malerion was summoned few times in this discussion. Since I am a great fan of Dark Elves I think and would like Malerion to receive his own miniatures and book rather than be an addition to Morathi. Yet If I had to choose whether I want 5 new Dark Elves miniatures combined with DoK or no minis at all, I prefer the former.

It's hard to find balance. In my opinion current state with battletomes is good. Armies feel up to date most of the time. I still think that the future of rules is to bring them online. Maybe in a form of subscription. You pay once a year and have access to all the rules for each faction and unit. This would also make it easier for GW to update rules and points more often.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Aeryenn

[KingBrodd]

Anyone else just hyped at what sort of monsters may come with an Ogor or Beasts of Chaos refresh!? Never wouldve I thought that a beautiful Manticore wouldve come to Cities!!

Maybe Ogors will get Giant Ground Sloths to go with the Ice Age theme or do another out of nowhere release with Alliance Swapping beasts such as voracious Gryphons or Cannibalisitic Unicorns!?

 

[madmac]

I think history has shown that the only limiter on GW pushing out battletomes is to space out model releases. If not for miniatures and competing systems there's nothing stopping them from pushing out four in a month if they feel like it. Which makes sense, it's not like they're written one at a time, by all indications GW designs battletomes in clusters of six or so, testing them against each other before release.

With that in mind, the proposition that reducing the total number of battletomes by 1 or 2 via souping is going to meaningfully impact their release schedule in any way is laughable. The only thing keeping 3E from being completely up to date two years in is the still pending release of CoS and FEC, and both of these books were written and printed long ago and are being held back only to release with their respective model waves.

[Tonhel]

They will have to do something with the amount of AoS armies, old kits and armies with limit amount of units/ heroes.

Hopefully 4th edition will do something about it. Imo, they should flesh out / expand were needed the current AoS armies before they introduce new armies.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

48 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It might be worth contrasting AoS and WFB design concepts. AoS is a modern system in that it incorporates a MTG like rules synergy concepts (look at SW Legion or ASOIAF for other examples). WFB uses 1960s/70s historical wargame design concepts like panic tests when near by units rout (KoW is also old school). To use a railway analogy, it is like comparing a steam engine with a diesel locomotive.

In fact WFB was obsolete by the time 6th ed was launched. Everyone has their favourite theory why GW canned WFB, but it was too old fashion for modern gamers and just couldn’t attract a sustainable player base. To be honest, it is surprising it lasted as long as it did. And why does anyone play KoW? I guess the reason is that some people like steam locomotives. But that is only going to be a small but dedicated following.

This is 100% percent right. WFB is rank and flank at its most classic, which is a type of games that still exist today (see mass historicals) but really attracts a fringe population of experienced and dedicated wargamers.
I'm gonna rebound on the statement "WFB was obsolete by the time 6th ed was launched" because that's exactly what I felt like in 2014 with 8th ed, while I was just a teen taking my first steps into the hobby. I played some WFB demo games with Island of Blood at my local GW and it just felt like a chore to play. Even 40k 7th felt better playing, because even if it was complicated it felt logical. WFB on the other hand... I didn't get why a whole unit of elves would run away from skavens because they killed one of them, needing to perfectly wheel the units was difficult, and the artillery dice was so useless and overly convoluted. That's what I remember of WFB. Some of my middle school friends who were into 40k tried to dabble into WFB and same thing, all decided not to continue. Granted we weren't kids back then, we were close to high school so it's not like we were immature for demanding game systems. 
Also remember guys, it was the time where X-Wing and WarmaHordes were causing problems to Warhammer. That's why the games envolved and we got 40k 8th ed and AoS, who both can in fact attract a sustainable player base.

Your analogy is about the steam locomotive fans is really good. There's dedicated but small... and also vocal, and most try to pretend the people who like the diesel/electric locomotives are in fact the minority. 

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

It might be worth contrasting AoS and WFB design concepts. AoS is a modern system in that it incorporates a MTG like rules synergy concepts (look at SW Legion or ASOIAF for other examples). WFB uses 1960s/70s historical wargame design concepts like panic tests when near by units rout (KoW is also old school). To use a railway analogy, it is like comparing a steam engine with a diesel locomotive.

In fact WFB was obsolete by the time 6th ed was launched. Everyone has their favourite theory why GW canned WFB, but it was too old fashion for modern gamers and just couldn’t attract a sustainable player base. To be honest, it is surprising it lasted as long as it did. And why does anyone play KoW? I guess the reason is that some people like steam locomotives. But that is only going to be a small but dedicated following.

Sorry, but I can't call any system which still uses I Go You Go a modern game. I enjoy AoS, but it definitely feels like a Frankenstein's Monster of a system they've been trying to graft more modern concepts onto an outdated engine rather than something truly it's own, which is why I do kind of hope 4.0 is a full reset.

To me, AoS doesn't really feel anymore modern than... say, Warmahordes in that respect. That doesn't make it a bad game (obviously or I'd not be here), but it feels caught between the two brackets of something truly modern and one stuck in the 90's. I guess that's the curse of being a GW 'core' game. 

Pretty much every new, non-core game from GW (and every new game from non-GW companies) being some form of alternating activations whilst their core games cling fiercely to it makes me assume there's people in the sales department who're terrified of change and say, "It's always been I Go You Go we can't risk changing that!" We see hints of their longing for Alternating Activations with their adding more ways to interact with your opponent's phase, but clearly somebody at the top is stopping them from committing fully to it. 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[madmac]

19 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

They will have to do something with the amount of AoS armies, old kits and armies with limit amount of units/ heroes.

Hopefully 4th edition will do something about it. Imo, they should flesh out / expand were needed the current AoS armies before they introduce new armies.

I think we'll get there, or rather we are almost there already. The number of armies left that haven't been expanded or modernized is rapidly decreasing, and honestly there isn't a bunch of new armies left to add either unless GW pulls something else out of left-field.  In point of fact, 3E so far is the only edition of AoS that has introduced no new armies-They added KB to Warclans and overhauled CoS but nothing has been released that required an entirely new battletome to play.

Malerion and Chorfs seem destined to happen at some point, but other than that there isn't really any large tentpole armies left begging for release, more stuff like Kurnothi and Grugni Dwarfs etc that heavily blur the lines between new army vs expansion of existing army.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

37 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Sorry, but I can't call any system which still uses I Go You Go a modern game. [...] I guess that's the curse of being a GW 'core' game.

That's because "I go you go" is in the DNA of Warhammer. Yes it's fallen out of style in modern wargaming, Warhammer is the only wargame that still does that apart from mass historicals, and I feel like GW is clinging to that is because they know most Warhammer players like to complain and don't like change much, so I guess, better to keep an imperfect system to maintain the playerbase happy rather than try alternate activations and risk angering them. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[cyrus]

4 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

Gencon is for small games and they skipped that event last year. It is very hard to see on stores the armybox before the full roster is showed on a big event

Kurnothi and Fyreslayer are gonna be Warcry warbands.

Dawnbringers book 3 is a Hero book.

On GenCon 2023 website there are more than 200 small demos scheduled for Underworlds,Warcry,Blood Bowl, Kill   so GW will show up indeed :https://www.gencon.com/events?host=Games+Workshop

 

I think Whitefang hinted Kurnothi and Fyreslayers for AoS/Dawnbringers: we know for sure Dawnbringers bring miniatures for at least 12 aos factions.

 

[Aleser]

Yeah Dawnbringers books will not just be new heroes, they teased Hype Boar for IJ already 

[Acrozatarim]

I tell you what, I'm really hoping we see more specialist wizards like the Alchemite coming for the other Winds/Realms.

[Snarff]

23 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

I tell you what, I'm really hoping we see more specialist wizards like the Alchemite coming for the other Winds/Realms.

I'd really like to see a proper aqshyan fire wizard, I really don't like the bright wizard kit. Hopefully future waves will bring more other races into the fold as well, a Duardin or Aelf wizard would be amazing

Edited July 2, 2023 by Snarff

[Nezzhil]

Spoiler

Necromunda

Age of Sigmar
Cities Battletome + Infrantry + Cavalry + Foot Marshall + the Not-Ogor + Alchemist + Manticore
Cities Armybox
Mistery book Winter
Dawnbringer: Orruks?
Dawnbringer: 3
Dawnbringer: 4
THE HYPE BOAR

Warcry
Underworlds meets Warcry starter Soulblight vs SCE
Scenary outside + Old warbands
3 Warbands (Order vs Destro)
2 Warbands (Order vs Death)
2 Warbands (who knows)
Krule Monsta-hunta

Underworlds
Skaven Pestilens
Core Box
Destro Warband
Rival Deck 2

Horus Heresy
Plastic Lancer
Two more Knights
Assault Squad
Mistery Army
Legion Command Squad
Primarch
Lords of War
Dreadnought

Warhammer 40k
Black Library Sargeant Astra Militarum Minska
Starters sets (intro, basic and ultimate)
Space Marines Codex - Launch Complete army
Tyranids Codex - Launch Complete Army
Lion + other heroes from AoO
Marines from Agastus
Deathleaper
Adeptus Mechanicus
Necrons
Dark Angels
Orks
Adeptus Custodes
T'au Empire
Chaos Space Marines

Kill Team 
Votann + Beastmen warbands + scenary outside

LotR
Nazghûl and the Hobbits

Old World
Bretonnian Paladin + Standard Bearer
Tomb Kings Hero

Blood Bowl
Grashnak Blackhoof    
Bolgrot!!!
Fatty Nurgle Star
Ivan the bones

Epic HH
The box

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/02/sunday-preview-a-primarch-a-rebel-and-a-kommando-walk-into-a-warhammer-store/

Summer holidays so small updates the next two months as I said a few post before

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nezzhil

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

The Alchemite was the surprise star of the show for me. These aren’t just the collegiate wizards of yore transplanted into the Mortal Realms anymore 

[Clan's Cynic]

Conceptually and visually I love the Alchemite, but the Dwarf in me grumbles that he still sounds an awful lot like a Runesmith.

 

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:

  Hide contents

Necromunda

Age of Sigmar
Cities Battletome + Infrantry + Cavalry + Foot Marshall + the Not-Ogor + Alchemist + Manticore
Cities Armybox
Mistery book Winter
Dawnbringer: Orruks?
Dawnbringer: 3
Dawnbringer: 4
THE HYPE BOAR

Warcry
Underworlds meets Warcry starter Soulblight vs SCE
Scenary outside + Old warbands
3 Warbands (Order vs Destro)
2 Warbands (Order vs Death)
2 Warbands (who knows)
Krule Monsta-hunta

Underworlds
Skaven Pestilens
Core Box
Destro Warband
Rival Deck 2

Horus Heresy
Plastic Lancer
Two more Knights
Assault Squad
Mistery Army
Legion Command Squad
Primarch
Lords of War
Dreadnought

Warhammer 40k
Black Library Sargeant Astra Militarum Minska
Space Marines Codex - Launch Complete army
Tyranids Codex - Launch Complete Army
Lion + other heroes from AoO
Marines from Agastus
Deathleaper
Adeptus Mechanicus
Necrons
Dark Angels
Orks
Adeptus Custodes
T'au Empire
Chaos Space Marines

Kill Team 
Votann + Beastmen warbands + scenary outside

LotR
Nazghûl and the Hobbits

Old World
Bretonnian Paladin + Standard Bearer
Tomb Kings Hero

Blood Bowl
Grashnak Blackhoof    
Bolgrot!!!
Fatty Nurgle Star

Epic HH
The box

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/02/sunday-preview-a-primarch-a-rebel-and-a-kommando-walk-into-a-warhammer-store/

Summer holidays so small updates the next two months as I said a few post before

Blood Bowl mini for Monday as well.

[Gitzdee]

Im happy these 40k models are available. Gives me more hope to see a Rabble Rowza release some day. 

(Boss Snikrot looks awesome, might have to buy that one...)

[GenericEdgyName]

27 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Blood Bowl mini for Monday as well.

To be honest I'm happy they specified it's BB right away, instead of just saying it's a new mini and leaving us falsely hopeful for something AoS

[novakai]

7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Based on the WarCom article I don't think so. All the weapon options seem to have lore for them tied to Tahlia. Her helmeted version looks pretty generic though, so even if somebody doesn't like using named characters it's not too difficult to pretend they're somebody else.

 

A minor annoyance I can see (other than no Artifact or command traits options) is that Vedra being the Lioness of the Paunch has the Hammerhal keyword and it causes some limitations when using her in other cities.

quite like how Skargrott has the Da King's Gitz keyword, so he can't use the Badsnatchers ability to reroll spell cast.

Edited July 2, 2023 by novakai

[KingBrodd]

41 minutes ago, GenericEdgyName said:

To be honest I'm happy they specified it's BB right away, instead of just saying it's a new mini and leaving us falsely hopeful for something AoS

I love it. Hopefully it continues, if they specify the system every weekend it makes for hype building depending on the system.