The Rumour Thread

[Skjold]

W....wait no Ushoran? 😢 Im ready to join this crusade to staple ourselves to warhammer world

At least we are getting some darkoath right? right?

[Dawi not Duardin]

Reflections on the new Fyreslayer short story: 

Sorry, but they are just too boring. I want to like them - they are dwarfs, after all - but they just feel too flanderized. Fyre-steel, fyre-ale, magma-holds. Who cares? It is just way overdone and way too cartoonish. I just can't see how the Fyreslayer concept is enough for a freestanding army. People rightly compain about the lack of models, but honestly, the problem isn't necessarily just with the lack of sculpts but rather with the lack of nuances and in the concept. It is literally all just fire fyre & flames.

...at least the artwork of the guy with the hammers has eyebrows, unlike the model. The face looks much better.

...but they really need someone to tell them to do exactly what Grungni did with the Kharadron: go out and be a bit more creative and independent and come up with some ways of living that aren't so single-minded. Maybe Gotrek the anti-theist will teach them that? Or, plot twist, maybe Grimnir actually planned to die all along to teach the Fyreslayers independence, just how Grungni abandoned the Kharadron, except Grimnir failed massively where Grungni succeeded?

[xking]

3 minutes ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

Reflections on the new Fyreslayer short story: 

Sorry, but they are just too boring. I want to like them - they are dwarfs, after all - but they just feel too flanderized. Fyre-steel, fyre-ale, magma-holds. Who cares? It is just way overdone and way too cartoonish. I just can't see how the Fyreslayer concept is enough for a freestanding army. People rightly compain about the lack of models, but honestly, the problem isn't necessarily just with the lack of sculpts but rather with the lack of nuances and in the concept. It is literally all just fire fyre & flames.

...at least the artwork of the guy with the hammers has eyebrows, unlike the model. The face looks much better.

...but they really need someone to tell them to do exactly what Grungni did with the Kharadron: go out and be a bit more creative and independent and come up with some ways of living that aren't so single-minded. Maybe Gotrek the anti-theist will teach them that? Or, plot twist, maybe Grimnir actually planned to die all along to teach the Fyreslayers independence, just how Grungni abandoned the Kharadron, except Grimnir failed massively where Grungni succeeded?

You don't have to like them, not every faction is for every person. There are other flavor of dwarves. But there are people that do like the Fyreslayer for what they are. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by xking

[xking]

As for "Fyre-steel, Fyre-ale, magma-holds" this is a problem with age of Sigmar in general and I have complained about it a lot before. Especially when it comes to City names

[Chikout]

37 minutes ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

Reflections on the new Fyreslayer short story: 

Sorry, but they are just too boring. I want to like them - they are dwarfs, after all - but they just feel too flanderized. Fyre-steel, fyre-ale, magma-holds. Who cares? It is just way overdone and way too cartoonish. I just can't see how the Fyreslayer concept is enough for a freestanding army. People rightly compain about the lack of models, but honestly, the problem isn't necessarily just with the lack of sculpts but rather with the lack of nuances and in the concept. It is literally all just fire fyre & flames.

...at least the artwork of the guy with the hammers has eyebrows, unlike the model. The face looks much better.

...but they really need someone to tell them to do exactly what Grungni did with the Kharadron: go out and be a bit more creative and independent and come up with some ways of living that aren't so single-minded. Maybe Gotrek the anti-theist will teach them that? Or, plot twist, maybe Grimnir actually planned to die all along to teach the Fyreslayers independence, just how Grungni abandoned the Kharadron, except Grimnir failed massively where Grungni succeeded?

There isn't much room for subtlety in a short like this. You should read the Fyreslayer story from the Grombindal novel. It does a much better job of illustrating the depth of Fyreslayer culture. The Volturung Road by Guy Haley is another really good story that has plenty of detail about Fyreslayer culture. There is plenty there to be explored that could turn the Fyreslayers into a proper army. 

[KingBrodd]

The entire Destruction Alliance is feeling quite hyped right now, especially our underground brethren!!

[xking]

21 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

The entire Destruction Alliance is feeling quite hyped right now, especially our underground brethren!!

We all float down here

[Neverchosen]

This is likely covered elsewhere but I just went through some images for the leaked Crypt of blood and I noticed it was a snowy board... it made me curious if we know if the next Warcry season will also be set in Andtor? It would go nicely with my snowy army themes.
 

[novakai]

3 hours ago, Kronos said:

Just thinking, and Apologise if said already. But remember Malign Portents.

We also got Harbingers then. Each was followed by a fairly big release or army update. Neither Gloomspite or Nighthaunt had been released yet. Darkoath in a way was the smallest release as Darkoath only got warband later down the line - but it heralded Warcry from what I remember. 
 

I can easily see Gloomspite, Fyreslayers and FEC getting more models and maybe a centre piece each. But Maggotkin I’m stumped on, unless it’s either Festus or Epidemius getting a glowup. And maybe some Blight kin Horsey Knights.

 

 

Broken Realm also indirectly hinted at 3.0 release (though not as directly as Malign Portent) 

or at least the armies (besides LRL and Slaanesh since they had a big release beforehand) that got a release in Broken Realm got slightly bigger release during the new edition. (Stormcast, Nighthaunt, Cities of Sigmar, Seraphon, Sylvaneth, and Slaves to darkness)

[Beliman]

6 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

Sorry, but they are just too boring.

I think that you are simplifying a bit too much. 

You are right, they have fire-this and magma-that, but move past their wording: dwarfs that use monsters and bound with them; abuse of runes, not just in their weapons but their our skin too; they are a religious group like old slayers but dialed to 11, I can see a triumph of Saint Katherine with a large skull of an ancient magmadroth in it; I can continue but I think you get the point.

What I'm trying to say is that their main problem is their roster and their basic design of their troops.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Beliman

[Dawi not Duardin]

5 hours ago, Chikout said:

There isn't much room for subtlety in a short like this. You should read the Fyreslayer story from the Grombindal novel. It does a much better job of illustrating the depth of Fyreslayer culture. The Volturung Road by Guy Haley is another really good story that has plenty of detail about Fyreslayer culture. There is plenty there to be explored that could turn the Fyreslayers into a proper army. 

I read (well: audiobooked) the Grombrindal novel a few weeks ago. It didn't help when it comes to the Fyreslayers. Nor does how they are portrayed elsewhere, such as in the Gotrek stories. The more I read about them, the harder they are to engage with. Ordinarily, I am into any dwarf faction. But this one is really hard to care about...

...but it doesn't have to be that way, of course. If you compare the Fyreslayers to the Kharadron it is truly night and day. The Kharadron is a concept that has a lot of depth to it: they have really interesting philosophical and historically informed ideas that lay a backbone for the faction, ranging from their capitalism to their adherence to the code to their stance on gods to the conference of Madralta. Just the name "Kharadron" is so much better than "Fyreslayers" - the latter isn't even good English.

As far as AoS goes, IMO the Fyreslayers are then a swing and a miss whereas the Kharadron display the setting at its very best.. The Fyreslayers need reimagining. Though deep down, of course, I do think all duardin dawi belong together... 

[Jagged Red Lines]

5 hours ago, Chikout said:

There isn't much room for subtlety in a short like this. You should read the Fyreslayer story from the Grombindal novel. It does a much better job of illustrating the depth of Fyreslayer culture. The Volturung Road by Guy Haley is another really good story that has plenty of detail about Fyreslayer culture. There is plenty there to be explored that could turn the Fyreslayers into a proper army. 

I returned the audiobook after getting half way through this. If you're talking about the first short story in the book.

Part of what made old world slayers so awesome is that they were genuinely funny. Look at Bjorni Bjornisson or Snorri Nosebiter.

Even when they were serious they were unintentionally funny, like the scenes of endless ceremony in Karak Kadrin, which bores Felix to tears.

Fyreslayers are just too po-faced. There's no irony in how they name everything fyre-this or magma-that, despite how ridiculous it is as an idea. They're like characters imagined in badly-written young adult fiction novel. I felt like I was reading a Nick Kyme Salamanders novel.

Part of the charm of dwarves is how absurd they are when they are grandiose, but how honest and loyal they are with friends.

[Dawi not Duardin]

3 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I returned the audiobook after getting half way through this. If you're talking about the first short story in the book.

Part of what made old world slayers so awesome is that they were genuinely funny. Look at Bjorni Bjornisson or Snorri Nosebiter.

Even when they were serious they were unintentionally funny, like the scenes of endless ceremony in Karak Kadrin, which bores Felix to tears.

Fyreslayers are just too po-faced. There's no irony in how they name everything fyre-this or magma-that, despite how ridiculous it is as an idea. They're like characters imagined in badly-written young adult fiction novel. I felt like I was reading a Nick Kyme Salamanders novel.

Part of the charm of dwarves is how absurd they are when they are grandiose, but how honest and loyal they are with friends.

Part of the charm of the OG Slayers, IMO, is also that they clearly are the dwarf version of 80s punks, much like how the dark elves were the elf interpreation of 80s goth rockers, chaos is very 80s/90s death metal, etc. Basically, a lot of early Warhammer concepts are pop culture references that are rather dated by now. Though, as you say, they are clearly funny.

I guess part of the problem with the Fyreslayers is that they don't have a contemporary cultural reference like that, whereas the  Kharadron in fact do. My take on them is that they are internet atheists drawn to an extreme, complete with libertarian capitalism and a denial of the power of the very gods they see in front of them. They clearly suffer from a kind of scientistic hubris. Which reminds me of old-school GW satire, and which is just as delicious as Gotrek's 80s mohawk.  

[Gitzdee]

For me its the other way around. I feel no connection with KO. Different tastes i guess. I like the Fyreslayer design i just think they could use 1 more unit that looks a bit different.

I also think KO and Fyeslayers balance each other out. They make the other look more unique than it would be it the other army didnt exist imho. 

[Jagged Red Lines]

.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jagged Red Lines

[cofaxest]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I think that you are simplifying a bit too much. 

You are right, they have fire-this and magma-that, but move past their wording: dwarfs that use monsters and bound with them; abuse of runes, not just in their weapons but their our skin too; they are a religious group like old slayers but dialed to 11, I can see a triumph of Saint Katherine with a large skull of an ancient magmadroth in it; I can continue but I think you get the point.

What I'm trying to say is that their main problem is their roster and their basic design of their troops.

I think more like good old anvil of doom type of diorama unit. Priest with assistant and 4 hearthguards moving this construction into the battle. 

I think that the main idea is that slayers doesn't have any work other then fighting and collecting ur-gold. Old slayers was an adventurers and in AoS they feels like too settle and too static. Then I ask myself would Grimnir be happy to see how his sons doing thing my unswear is no. 

Then I think about slayers two words comes to my mind - honor and vengence. 

Being all-out mercs doesn't help me to like them also.

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I returned the audiobook after getting half way through this. If you're talking about the first short story in the book.

Part of what made old world slayers so awesome is that they were genuinely funny. Look at Bjorni Bjornisson or Snorri Nosebiter.

Even when they were serious they were unintentionally funny, like the scenes of endless ceremony in Karak Kadrin, which bores Felix to tears.

Fyreslayers are just too po-faced. There's no irony in how they name everything fyre-this or magma-that, despite how ridiculous it is as an idea. They're like characters imagined in badly-written young adult fiction novel. I felt like I was reading a Nick Kyme Salamanders novel.

Part of the charm of dwarves is how absurd they are when they are grandiose, but how honest and loyal they are with friends.

I suppose one of the joys of the world is that people's tastes can be so divergent. I genuinely enjoyed how self serious it was. 

[sandlemad]

One of the issues with the Fyreslayer background does seem to be the approach taken to that overwhelming warrior-cult culture, it makes them feel shallow. The portrayals of FS holds and society outside of that - domestic life, institutions, details of religion - are all very lightly sketched out in broad, vague, hesitant strokes. 

They hang out in mountain holds and lodges and… that’s it. It’s actually broadly quite similar to WHFB dwarf society but less thoughtful and with a huge amount of detail cut out in favour of, yes, adding fyre- or rune- prefixes to everything, which is a problem. The authors seem to want them to be both one-note warriors while still carrying the torch for older dwarf signifiers like big halls and family lineages and such.

And I don’t actually think it’s just about what resonates with individual people, it’s that when you compare FS background to that of the Kharadron or Idoneth or Lumineth or Ossiarch… there’s just not as much there. Not as much thought or detail or effort. Compare how the Idoneth castes or the Lumineth temples are treated as elements of society to the FS scattering of ‘auric’ as a term effectively at random. It’s still very AoS 1.0, not so much a portrayal of a fantasy culture as a few bodged together high concept ideas without much connective tissue.

I don’t want to just say “FS were a misfire” because there’s the germ of some really interesting stuff there. If they’d leaned harder into fleshing out the esoteric ritualistic warrior cult side of things - make them like a true weird religious order of full time warriors, the dominant elite of a broader ‘lay’ dwarf society in the holds, unlike the old WHFB dwarfs where they were mostly well-drilled militias - there would have been a lot more that can be done with it. But as is, their background just hasn’t had the same effort and thoughtfulness as other AoS factions.

And yeah, the models are the other, bigger issue, with almost no visual or aesthetic variation across the range.

Edited June 24, 2023 by sandlemad

[King Under the Mountain]

I love all Dwarfs but I do think Fyreslayers are the weakest fleshed out concept of the 4 major playable Dwarf factions (Old World Dwarfs, Kharadron Overlords, Leagues of Votann and Fyreslayers).

But they have potential!  They need to expand their range beyond just copy and paste Slayers wanabee's.  If I am to believe they are a real civilization, then there must be members back in the Magahold keep it running.  Let me see more of them.  

Also as always, where are my female Dwarfs at?  Maybe while all the men are out running around half naked, they are back in the hold crafting heavy armor, wielding fire whips or something.

Just brainstorming but I really want to see Fyreslayers be successful on their own.  

[The Lost Sigmarite]

I always felt like GW got spooked by the cold reception of the Fyreslayer range in 1st edition and decided to put them under the rug since then. Giving the army the minimum support required (ie a foot hero here and there every edition). But now that AoS has expanded a lot, I think they've realised how thin the FS roster is strectched. It's why they've split the Vulkite warscroll in 2, Grimwraths and Doomseekers being Heroes but not Leaders for list building... 

One thing about FS that always surprises is that people always say the same things about them, they're same-y looking, super small roster with a lot of heroes, one trick pony aesthetic... yet every FLGS and club has a handful of FS mains, and you always see them represented at tournaments. And now GW uses a lot of tounament data in their marketing.

I think now the stars are alligned for a FS release in the future. Appearance in a narrative campaign, several rumours floating around. I hope it's something different from foot slogging duardins. The Infernoth was a step in the right direction and I feel like every complain we have about the range, GW knows about, so I wouldn't worry.

[Gitzdee]

I think the problem with Fyreslayers lore is the warrior-cult thing. They fit nicely in the Order roster. But compare them to Destruction/Chaos/Death armies and they just feel a bit plain. They just need that little bit of spice that connects them to the realms in a way that they feel important. Whfb dwarves used to be a stronghold defending the world from things crawling out of the mountains like Skaven and Goblins.

I could be wrong, im no duardin expert. Just my opinion. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Gitzdee
Rewording

[Asbestress]

40 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

I think the problem with Fyreslayers lore is the warrior-cult thing. They fit nicely in the Order roster. But compare them to Destruction/Chaos/Death armies and they just feel a bit plain. They just need that little bit of spice that connects them to the realms in a way that they feel important. Whfb dwarves used to be a stronghold defending the world from things crawling out of the mountains like Skaven and Goblins.

I could be wrong, im no duardin expert. Just my opinion. 

I'd really love if they really went into that Aqshy duardin aspect more in the way they've done for Idoneth with more fire lizards/fire magic, and/or keep their current lore but add something like: "ur-gold concentrations have reached a point where Grimnir can do stuff" and have some more overtly religious fanatic units that finally stand out from all the current half-naked axe guys (I know every Fyreslayer worships Grimnir via combat, but imho Fyreslayers really need some visually different units). And maybe finally some female duardin would be nice.

And in terms of defending the world from things crawling out of the mountains, they still kinda fulfill that purpose a little. Apart from Skaven and Gloomspite Gitz they are really the only faction with major underground presence (Kharadron being up in the sky, and Dispossessed just vibing in Cities and maybe reclaiming a hold when they feel like it).

[pnkdth]

They released essentially the same tome twice. Added a hero no one asked for. Made the army more expensive to collect while adding nothing of note.

To get excited over any potential the faction has is going to need a lot more than "they might get an update in 2-5 years" or "AoS is in a good spot right now." This might be coming off as negative but I'm just so done with hoping for things I know 100% won't happen.

As a concept I really like the FS. Mercs going mad for their god creates opportunities for stories which aren't just good versus evil but several shades of grey. More creative units and naming scheme would help too. I mean, they literally got a volcanic underworld of beasts and creatures to pull from. Not to mention the various aspects of warriors and cool looking armour/weapon designs they could have come up with... But then again, that's just unrealised potential, so it is just ash in the wind until something happens.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

I always felt like Fyreslayers were "the army of Aqshy", just like Lumineth are the army of Hysh. But we barely see that except with the magmic invocations, the magmaforge and the Magmadroth. All the rest is either priests or naked berserkers in loincloths. And there's not much you can do with only naked berserkers in loincloths. 

Apart from that one of the first things that come to my mind with FS is runic magic. Why not have some creatures of Aqshy bound through runes ? I'm not asking for the whole fauna to be represented, but that would be a cool step. Even a "chaotic beasts" type box with 10 lava critters would do so much good to the range. And there's so much more to runic magic than that... runic totems, the old anvil of doom...

[madmac]

3 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

One thing about FS that always surprises is that people always say the same things about them, they're same-y looking, super small roster with a lot of heroes, one trick pony aesthetic... yet every FLGS and club has a handful of FS mains, and you always see them represented at tournaments. And now GW uses a lot of tounament data in their marketing.

Yeah, this is a point I've been hammering on for a while. People who don't like Fyreslayers get this idea in their head that practically everyone also dislikes Fyreslayers and that they're a waste of space, etc etc. When the reality is that they actually have a solid and dedicated fanbase by all visible indications. Like, their tournament percentage alone has always been higher than a lot of factions that are widely considered to be "popular" armies, and it's always been that way.

I think partially the reason this happens is because even Fyreslayer players will agree with a lot of criticisms, like the models being samey or the infantry models not the best looking GW has ever made, but that doesn't mean they don't love the army. For me personally, I play a lot of armies, so me saying that I also play Fyreslayers doesn't have a lot of weight necessarily, but I've realized over the years that of all the armies I get worked up and excited/depressed about, Fyreslayers are the top of the list, so in a way you can say they're secretly my favorite AoS army. Surely they've been neglected by GW over the years, but the core of what they are is really cool and has a special resonance unique to them.

In any case, I do think Fyreslayers will have their due soon, I don't think for a second that them being one of the four harbringers of the new Narrative Campaign is coincidental.