The Rumour Thread

[Ferban]

5 hours ago, Marcvs said:

As for the boardgamegeek ranking, I don't find it particularly conclusive that the users of a website aimed at board gaming ranks first a GW game which closely resembles a... board game.

Not responding to you in particular, just using this as a jumping off point re BGG.  

BGG has lots of titles beyond strict board games.  But it is primarily a board game site.  It caters to boardgamers and reflects their opinions.  And not just boardgamers in general, but the kind of gamer that also spends time on BGG.  I've been on BGG since ... 2006ish?  It's a great site and offers a lot of utility.  But there are already big divides within the community itself.  

As an easy example, you can look at the BGG top 100.  Euro-style games with low conflict and low RNG are quite overrepresented.  That doesn't mean those games are "better" necessarily.  Just that the kind of person who likes and uses BGG tends to prefer that kind of game.  It's not surprising, then, that the further you go from that genre, the lower the ranking is going to be.  And, in my experience, there does tend to be a small (though vocal) group of individuals who really dislike GW as a company and downrate many of their games.  

Two other minor points.  First, there is no enforced criteria in BGG rankings.  It's not uncommon for a game to have several high (or low) ratings before it even comes out.  And many users rank games without a single play.  Hopefully, that all comes out in the wash as statistical noise, but it shows the problematic nature of using the aggregated scoring for any definitive purpose.  Second, when a game is first created in the database, BGG "weights" it by giving it something like 500 dummy votes at 5.5.  Or maybe its more votes (1000?), I can't recall.  But the purpose is to prevent a game with one or two ratings from shooting to the top of the BGG list.  You need enough plays to overcome those dummy scores and see the game move.  Since my guess is that relatively few BGG players are highly involved in miniature wargaming, it would also be unsurprising to see those games with lower scores due to the initial weighting.  

Which is a long way of saying that I think the BGG ranking is a fuzzy tool at best, and probably not worth much at all when looking at miniature wargaming.  

[Gitzdee]

Would be great if there was a BGG but only for miniature games.

I really like BGG as a concept, its a great source of information. I also use it to keep track if everything i own and rate them just because.

GW games are more like a hobby of their own because u cant play it straight out of the box and my guess is thats why most are rated the way they are.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Gitzdee

[JohnnyWolf]

1 hour ago, RileyArlic said:

How are they ranking them? It's too easy for a couple of nerds to have strong opinions, start a website, and then display those opinions with their own sense of bias.

Ferban up there already answered some of that, but I'll add that only registered users can leave a ranking (and only one obviously) and it takes a lot of vote to influence the ranking. For example for Underworlds, there are some 2800 users that rated the game.

1 hour ago, RileyArlic said:

AoS being so low reeks of strong opinions. 

There is certainly a bit of that, but many other GW games did very well and let's not forget there are more than 125 000 ranked games on BBG, so it is not the worst thing being at 4270.

BGG's ranking reflects the opinion of the whole gaming community, not just the wargaming one, so as much as everyone here might like the game, we would be kidding ourselves if we said AOS has the possibility to become a fan favorite game across gamers from all around the World.

51 minutes ago, Ferban said:

BGG has lots of titles beyond strict board games.  But it is primarily a board game site.  It caters to boardgamers and reflects their opinions.

This is true, but aren't wargames just a subtype of board games? It's been a long time since the expression referred only to traditional games played on an actual board.

1 hour ago, Ferban said:

And, in my experience, there does tend to be a small (though vocal) group of individuals who really dislike GW as a company and downrate many of their games.  

Sure, but again, the list I gave prove some of GW games are considered excellent as well.

[KingBrodd]

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

[EonChao]

16 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

Assuming we get Warcry boxes focused on that realm with new terrain then Chamon. I'd love to see what they'd do with the realm of metal after the carnivorous trees and giant bones of Ghur

[Snarff]

32 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

Aqshy, some terrain that isn't the 100th variant of ruined village (Gnarlwood trees were a great start) and some focus on the factions that still need it.

I want the craziness of AoS to be visible in the terrain. Give me volcanoes that we can paint however we want, floating rocks, anything but more Sigmarite villages.

My personal dream would be for FS and KO to get proper expansions that make their differences in culture even clearer, and Aqshy would be the perfect realm to do so (though Chamon might be slightly better for KO). I want to see Magmahold terrain, volcanic lairs, slayer statues, rune and gold filled halls and pillars, lavafalls. Set up some more elemental FS/IDK rivalry and properly expand the IDK too.

My 3 favourite factions unfortunately only received a single hero this edition, and only a few of the Warcry terrain pieces are interesting. Here's hoping 4th will bring everyone up to par.

[CDM]

40 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

Ulgu is surely next! Wasn't Aqshy 1.0  setting as well? 

[Nighthaunt Noob]

17 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The biggest problem for me was that I could not figure out which warbands and cards were still supported for the longest time. I hope they clean that up soon. I know there are now generic decks that any warband can use, but I hope they re-release the shadespire guys with new fighter cards, as well.

It's a difficult game to pitch right now:

 

Hey look, it's a miniature/card game hybrid by GW!

Oh, so you can army build like in Warhammer? -No.

But you can deck build like in magic, right? -Also no.

Well, at least you can play any warband against any other. -That is also not possible.

 

Right now, what you can do in Underworlds is pretty tightly constrained. It is truly best engaged with as a board game, where you buy something once and then it's complete. The avenue for expansion is not building up "your dudes", it is buying a different warband.

I suppose it is difficult to pitch if you're going to completely mispresent it.

1. Yes you can deckbuild like magic. There are a variety of formats with different deckbuilding rules.

2. Yes you can play any warband against any other warband.

3. Every warband ever released (~50 now) is still valid to use and most all of them still see play. I went to a tournament recently where the winner was using Season 1 warband Magore's Fiends. In that same tournament a player was using the season 1 Stormcast.

[RileyArlic]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

I'd love Aqshy! Bunch of fiery things, plants that somehow survive in the hostile environment, statues to the ancient salamanders or other god beasts from the realm, fiery elementals or other structures, there's a lot that could be done and then painted in all sorts of wild ways too!

Shadow/Ulgu seems to be the safest bet on what's coming next. Malerion needs to make himself known and they've been teasing the situation with Slaanesh for quite a while already. Terrain could still be generic enough, but with an emphasis on creepy gargoyles, Dark Elf structures, etc. Would be really sweet to see some terrain based on the city that Morathi took over too!

I think the one realm that I wouldn't be too pleased about would be Ghyran, realm of life. Yeah big flowers and plants and overgrown buildings and stuff, but all I see when I see trees and such in AoS is...

"That is going to snag on my models and make it a nightmare to move across the table"

blockier the terrain and fewer outreaching details, the better. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by RileyArlic

[Chikout]

I’m definitely hoping for the realm of shadow to be next. It’s time to finally see Malerion and it’s the perfect opportunity to give Skaven the huge update they deserve. 

[DinoJon]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

Lets say we do jump Realms next Edition and we most likely will, what Realm do you want the Narrative to shift to?

Personally Id love it to be Aqshy.

Aqshy would be fun. Last couple of Black Library books have been set in Aqshy like "Hammers of Sigmar: First Forged" and "Godeater's Son". This has led me wanting to go back there since that realm gas been fleshed out more. 

 

[Gitzdee]

I would like to see Hysh next! Give me all that Glareface Frazzlegit goodness please. I need more Gitmob and Grotbag in my life. Chamon would be a fun change of pace too. 

[Beliman]

More rumors, maybe just a lot of smoke. Who knows:

[RileyArlic]

Finally some AoS rumors!

Is it just me, or do other people tend to believe AoS rumors more often, because we get them less often, and the trolls are always going for fake 40k rumors because they know nothing of AoS? XD

[Lightbox]

59 minutes ago, Beliman said:

More rumors, maybe just a lot of smoke. Who knows:

If the skywarden changes are true then I'm definitely going to be interested in fielding them! Always wanted to be crazy stabby balloon lancers with my kharadrons (and melee, melee is fun)

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I suppose it is difficult to pitch if you're going to completely mispresent it.

1. Yes you can deckbuild like magic. There are a variety of formats with different deckbuilding rules.

2. Yes you can play any warband against any other warband.

3. Every warband ever released (~50 now) is still valid to use and most all of them still see play. I went to a tournament recently where the winner was using Season 1 warband Magore's Fiends. In that same tournament a player was using the season 1 Stormcast.

I'll concede I worded my post badly. It's true that these are options for already enfranchised players.

But I was writing from my own perspective as someone wanting to get started with the game. And my honest personal experience is that I found a lot of barriers that, I think, made it harder than it had to be. So that this does not just sound like me hating on the game: I like Underworlds and currently own 4 warbands.

The first barrier that I encountered was that, even fairly early, it was impossible to get the warband I was most interested in (Sepulchral Guard) with the necessary fighter cards included. I believe when I first became aware of Underworlds during Beastgrave, and I think it was already not possible to buy them from GW with the cards at that point. So as an interested player, I found a pretty significant barrier when it comes to playing any warband against any other: You simply could not get the required cards without going on the secondary market. And now, you cannot even get a lot of the warbands without doing so.

As for deckbuilding, I have only been looking into that with the current season, when I finally started buying into the game. Officially, it seems to me that the deckbuilding formats are: Use preconstructed decks, tune up your warband's deck by adding up to 10 cards from a preconstructed deck and a fairly free format where you can potentially use all of the season's cards. Your milage may vary, but I don't consider that deckbuilding "like in Magic". There is a barrier that I specifically noticed, which I thought was really unnecessary, and that is the decision to use different card backs for different seasons, which weirdly kills the possibility of an easy to get into eternal format for very little gain.

To do this at a time where Commander, the "your dudes" format of Magic, was the largest draw of that game makes these decisions very hard for me to understand. You are right that it's actually correct to say that you can't play old warbands, or you that you can't deck build. It's more like "You can technically use old warbands, but..." or "You can technically deck build, but..." where the restrictions are, in my opinion, so significant that they make me want to not bother. However, I do think the game is currently good when viewed as a board game, where you buy a big starter box that gives you everything to you need to play, and then buy warbands like expansions that give you a new experience.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

More rumors, maybe just a lot of smoke. Who knows:

4+ army-wide rally on KO of all armies. Kinda seems out of place.

I really wonder how bonkers OBR and Soulblight regeneration will get when they get their updates. Will SBGL go back to basically healing SUMMONABLE units for free and resurrecting whole units for a command point like Legions of Nagash?

[Beliman]

21 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

4+ army-wide rally on KO of all armies. Kinda seems out of place.

I really wonder how bonkers OBR and Soulblight regeneration will get when they get their updates. Will SBGL go back to basically healing SUMMONABLE units for free and resurrecting whole units for a command point like Legions of Nagash?

It's all about how the whole book will play

If we still don't have any defensive profiles to capture points, Rally will be the only thing that allows us to do that (note: btw, I don't like Rally, I think it should have some conditionals, like being in your starting zone or 6" wholly within an edge).

There are more weird things in this rumor, like frigates charging and giving attack first to disembarked units means that our two unique Marine troops (Arkanauts and Thunderers) are the main ones that will use this (unless using 1 heroe). Let's remember their melee profiles: 1 attack with 4+/4+/-/1. Ouch!

The subfaction that buffs priest (Thryng) is a bit weird, because it's all about taking Runelords. I don't know but it feels strange unless our Codewright is a Priest too.

Articles and Footnotes seems to be completely customisable, but no words about amendments. And it seems that they are diferent than the Skyports abilities.

There are a lot of questions that need answers, but this rumors seems to be enough for me to start paiting some AoS miniatures again.

[Grungnisson]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

More rumors, maybe just a lot of smoke. Who knows:

Oh my goodness... If it's true, it does pretty much feel like a move in the right direction. 

[Sigmarusvult]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

4+ army-wide rally on KO of all armies. Kinda seems out of place.

I really wonder how bonkers OBR and Soulblight regeneration will get when they get their updates. Will SBGL go back to basically healing SUMMONABLE units for free and resurrecting whole units for a command point like Legions of Nagash?

At least rally would make sense in a death in army. 

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

4+ army-wide rally on KO of all armies. Kinda seems out of place.

I really wonder how bonkers OBR and Soulblight regeneration will get when they get their updates. Will SBGL go back to basically healing SUMMONABLE units for free and resurrecting whole units for a command point like Legions of Nagash?

I couldn't care less for the healing. I just want them to make Vampires really scary again
(And to make Blakc Knights actual mounted Grave Guards)

[KingBrodd]

11 hours ago, Chikout said:

I’m definitely hoping for the realm of shadow to be next. It’s time to finally see Malerion and it’s the perfect opportunity to give Skaven the huge update they deserve. 

Of the Chaos Alliance Skaven and Beasts are the last 2 in dire need of updating. Having been skipped this Edition and 4.0 most likely returning to Chaos as the antagonist Id love to see both of them updated.

Ulgu fits Skaven perfectly and after Ghur didnt boost Beasts, Ghyran seems logical for them but Id much rather see both of these Factions updated next Edition and have Chaos Duardin release alongside them.

Skaven needs a massive range refresh but Beasts could get by with a few updates. Namely Bullgors, Centigors, Razorgors (Which I could see dropped) and Chaos Spawn which would be a mini for the entire Alliance and then of course the SHAGGOTH!!*

*Come to think of it Beasts need a range refresh almost on par with Skaven.

[LordSolarMach]

17 hours ago, DinoJon said:

Lustria expansion for Warhammer Fantasy Role-playing gives us an idea of what a Coatl might look like if we get it as a Seraphon release. 

[SNIP]

Interestingly, some of the other art that they've shown off has stuff like Skaven pelts and inlaid skulls, which is straight from David Ghallagher's c2004 concept art.

 

[KarrWolves]

Not sure if that has been shared or not.

Edited February 23, 2023 by KarrWolves

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, KarrWolves said:

Not sure if that has been shared or not.

@Arzalyn shared all this rumors in the KO sub-forum. A lot to unpack but really happy to see a melee variant build!!