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eekamouse

Warcry is Killteam/Mordheim... ?

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54 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Dave Sanders is the guy on their team that directs Underworlds and Kill Team Arena. Dude has good eyes for skirmish level games, so I'm looking forward to this new creation from him.

And he’s a nice guy. Always open for a chat. Only met him a couple of times but he knows his stuff and is passionate about playing games. Like everybody in the studio!

2 hours ago, Carnelian said:

If they're customisable like necromunda models that would be amazing. (actually I'd prefer if they were a little bit less customisable than necromunda!) 🤣those models are ridiculous

I don’t think they are, but we don’t know what’s round the corner. What happens if we get Darkoath this year and they have an army made up of these kits?

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This seems to be the game I've wanted GW to make. It sounds like Mordheim (with a presumably less robust campaign system) mixed with the original Path to Glory, played on a smaller board and in a smaller amount of time. In an excellent setting with diverse new models and a very cool concept.

I'm not a Chaos player in any GW game, but I appreciate Chaos, and it's awesome to see them do something with Chaos different than "This guy has a bunch of skulls and brass" and "This guy has a bloated gut and weeping sores."

I can't say I have ever been this excited about a GW release (I didn't play Mordheim when it initially came out, and that became my favorite mini game of all time).


I can understand those that are disappointed that this is Chaos only (I personally am on board, because I felt the restricted factions in Mordheim really helped with the setting and immersion in my opinion), so hopefully something like that will be released soon, or maybe other factions will be added eventually to this. I will say, while core KT is fun, I think the route GW has taken with it has been very uninspiring. After initially doing something unique and interesting (The Rogue Trader boxed set), KT has progressed by simply adding more Rulebooks that include more units from 40k. No in-depth campaign rules, no new factions, just kind of meh things if you ask me. Next expansion will probably be KT: Fast Attack. If we ended up with KT for AoS it would probably be much the same, fun core game and then AOS KT: Mounted Warrior, and then AOS KT: Large Warriors, etc. Doing something unique like this promises the content will be all new, not just reworked profiles in an additional rulebook.

 

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I'll look into this more when it comes out.  I like skirmish games in general more than other types of wargames.  However, being only chaos has dropped my interest quite a bit.  I certainly won't be itching for rumors anymore.  Unless they branch this out to more factions this strikes me as another GorkaMorka - where you can have really great rules and a fun game but end up with extremely restricted sales and lack of broader interest.  In my opinion they should have worked this into something closer to Path to Glory where all of the armies can participate.  The best part about KillTeam is that the majority of armies can be played so it has broad appeal for 40k players and also serves as a stepping-stone game.

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7 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I'll look into this more when it comes out.  I like skirmish games in general more than other types of wargames.  However, being only chaos has dropped my interest quite a bit.  

Same here, love AoS skirmish , really dont want it to be all chaos. 

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17 minutes ago, Sabotage! said:

 

I can understand those that are disappointed that this is Chaos only (I personally am on board, because I felt the restricted factions in Mordheim really helped with the setting and immersion in my opinion).

 

the thing is even though Mordheim had restricted faction, it was more varied to begin with like Undead and Skaven, and later on had Dwarfs, Orc and Goblins, and beastmen.

 I think my concern is that these type of games are hard to find people to play, and limiting to chaos faction would make it less appealing for people to play the game at launch

It kind of the reason why I think Shadespire (varied warband who are useable in the actual game) took off more over nercomunda and adeptus titanicus.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, chord said:

Same here, love AoS skirmish , really dont want it to be all chaos. 

I like Chaos as a thing.  It could be a great game - GorkaMorka is still one of my favorite skirmish games.  GorkaMorka did a good job of being a crazy mad-max vehicular mayhem game.  But as much as I love Orks I am pretty certain that designing a big game primarily around them was the main failing of that game.  Chaos has a broader appeal than Orks, but I still think it is going to be a large limitation to the appeal of this game.

I always had a hard time finding other people to play GorkaMorka with.  But I have rarely had a hard time getting people to play Necromunda and KillTeam is very popular in my area.

Edited by Skabnoze

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, novakai said:

It kind of the reason why I think Shadespire (varied warband who are useable in the actual game) took off more over nercomunda and adeptus titanicus.

Necromunda could have taken off a lot more.  GW botched the release of that game by pulling a slow-drip on the release of the main gangs in a game whose main draw is campaign play.  The first Necromunda was a huge hit when it released in the 90s, but it also came out with the rules for all 6 core gangs in the main rulebook and they rapidly released the box sets for those gangs.  The current Necromunda took far too long to get the core gangs released into the game and then GW released KillTeam during that time and pulled the rug out from Necromunda ever really getting broader appeal other than to die hard Necromunda fans.  I am a fairly die-hard long-term Necromunda fan and even I think KillTeam is a better all-round product.  Honestly at this point I would like GW to simply create KillTeam rules for the Necromunda gangs.

I hope Warcry turns out to be a good product and is a success, but I will not lie in that my interest is pretty low for a Chaos based AoS skirmish game.  I can think of a lot of factions that I would like to collect a small KillTeam like force for and Chaos is fairly low on that list.  But this is just, like, my opinion man...

Edited by Skabnoze
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I only collect chaos for gw games, and this looks like pure catnip to me. Can't wait to see a lot more of this. Id obviously be more than happy for this to stay chaos only, and have crazy detail to building your warband like the old tables for your mutations and such

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24 minutes ago, novakai said:

the thing is even though Mordheim had restricted faction, it was more varied to begin with like Undead and Skaven, and later on had Dwarfs, Orc and Goblins, and beastmen.

 I think my concern is that these type of games are hard to find people to play, and limiting to chaos faction would make it less appealing for people to play the game at launch

It kind of the reason why I think Shadespire (varied warband who are useable in the actual game) took off more over nercomunda and adeptus titanicus.

This is true, though the Undead faction was mostly human (barring Vampire, Zombies and Dire Wolves). Mordheim was mostly a game about humans (fur-clad humans, disciplined humans, rich humans, graverobbing and degenerate cannibal humans, fanatical religious humans, different fanatical religious humans, fanatical religious humans with mutants, and......rat humans.....okay that was a stretch).

There definitely is a possibility that other factions could be introduced into Warcry at a later date. It looks like one of the Armored guys may be a Duardin, so we may see Skaven or Beastmen in some of the tribes. If not I really wouldn't be surprised if down the road Skaven and Beastmen both become options as other followers of Chaos.

I do agree however that there will be a certain proportion of people that would be interested in this game if it included other factions, so naturally the game will lose a portion of it's audience.

I do think varied Warbands are a part of Underworlds success (though no one said that the Warcry warbands won't be varied, even if mostly human). I agree with Skabnoze on Necromunda though. I adopted early as I love the setting, but the way the thing was released, and especially drip feeding the rules killed the game here early. Which is a real shame, because the core of the new game is fantastic. Everyone just got tired of adding a new rulebook every three months, and the inconsistencies, and trying to find things across five books...etc. By the time the joint books were released it was really too late.

Adeptus Titanicus I think is just marketed as a more niche game. The rules are apparently really crunchy and dense, the initial buy in is pretty expensive (though the overall cost is not far other GW skirmish games, and cheaper than 40k and AoS most often), there was no real starter set, and no real bundles to get into it. It seems to be a game that most people I talk to have no interest in whatsoever, but the people that do went in really heavily.


I'm sorry to hear that this isn't as exciting to a lot of you, I know a few of my buddies and I will be playing this a lot.

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3 minutes ago, Sabotage! said:

I'm sorry to hear that this isn't as exciting to a lot of you, I know a few of my buddies and I will be playing this a lot.

I don't want this game to fail.  However, GW does not have a history of supporting non-core games for long-term - especially if sales start to dry up.  I am honestly surprised that Necromunda is still being produced given that they are now producing KillTeam.  I suspect that Necromunda is still mainly being kept alive by ForgeWorld.  That said, Necromunda has always had a core fan base even when it was out of print.

I am less certain that Warcry will be a viable long-term product if they insist on keeping it based around a niche of the AoS factions.  Historically those products have not found long-term success for GW. 

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Is it known if all the warbands are human, besides the Fury things? There were a couple of models that made me do a double take because they looked like a Chaos Dwarf and Beastman at first glance, so it got me curious.

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1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

I don't want this game to fail.  However, GW does not have a history of supporting non-core games for long-term - especially if sales start to dry up.  I am honestly surprised that Necromunda is still being produced given that they are now producing KillTeam.  I suspect that Necromunda is still mainly being kept alive by ForgeWorld.  That said, Necromunda has always had a core fan base even when it was out of print.

I am less certain that Warcry will be a viable long-term product if they insist on keeping it based around a niche of the AoS factions.  Historically those products have not found long-term success for GW. 

Necromunda is all done by the Specialist Games Team, which is part of Forgeworld. It’s a completely different team to the guys doing Kill Team (who also do Shadespire, and Warcry is them too). 

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1 minute ago, Regulus said:

Is it known if all the warbands are human, besides the Fury things? There were a couple of models that made me do a double take because they looked like a Chaos Dwarf and Beastman at first glance, so it got me curious.

We don't know anything other than what's been shown, everything else is just guessing.

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2 minutes ago, Regulus said:

Is it known if all the warbands are human, besides the Fury things? There were a couple of models that made me do a double take because they looked like a Chaos Dwarf and Beastman at first glance, so it got me curious.

There’s definitely a Chaos Dwarf. There’s no Beastmen though I’m pretty sure, just guys with beast skull helmets. 

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I'll be content with it being Chaos-only so long as we get a Chaos Dwarf Warband.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Necromunda is all done by the Specialist Games Team, which is part of Forgeworld. It’s a completely different team to the guys doing Kill Team (who also do Shadespire, and Warcry is them too). 

It is still a subsidiary of GW and it still pretty much directly competes with KillTeam.  They would be wise to simply make it a Kill-Team compatible expansion.  It is effectively mail-order only at this point in time so it's popularity is likely trending downward rather than up. 

And I don't really think different teams matters that much for whether or not GW keeps a product line in motion.  If sales go south for a small line game then it is reasonable for GW to pull the plug.  I would not be surprised if GW killed Shadespire if sales are not in line with what they want for any particular season.

Anyways I would like a real skirmish game for AoS and my concern with the announcement for this one is that they are initially restricting how many people will be interested in it.  Traditionally when GW has done that the games have not fared well.

Edited by Skabnoze

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33 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I don't want this game to fail.  However, GW does not have a history of supporting non-core games for long-term - especially if sales start to dry up.  I am honestly surprised that Necromunda is still being produced given that they are now producing KillTeam.  I suspect that Necromunda is still mainly being kept alive by ForgeWorld.  That said, Necromunda has always had a core fan base even when it was out of print.

I am less certain that Warcry will be a viable long-term product if they insist on keeping it based around a niche of the AoS factions.  Historically those products have not found long-term success for GW. 

Definitely an understandable viewpoint to have. I reckon you are probably right that if this doesn't sell well then it won't get a lot of support. I'm just hoping the rules are good, because they are, even if we only end up with the six initial factions, I'll still have a perfectly playable game and be happy with it.

I'm honestly surprised Necromunda is still getting support as well, especially as it seems a lot of gaming stores don't even carry it anymore. But that probably has more to do with FW and as you said, it's core fans.

KT seems to be curious too. I guess the boxed set and the Kill Zones sold exceedingly well (and why not they were all tremendous values), but the repacked "faction starts" and HQs have been atrocious sale wise. At least that's what I've heard. Though talking to the guy who runs my local game store, they haven't sold a single KT HQ box of the ones they got in (which is not surprising considering the value of them).

Warcry could definitely be a one and done thing, with no support after the six initial factions, especially considering how it isn't set in 40k (40k branded products tend to sell better from what I gather).  I do hope that's not the case. At the moment I'm just very excited to try it out and see a new side of the GW universe.

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7 minutes ago, Sabotage! said:

Definitely an understandable viewpoint to have. I reckon you are probably right that if this doesn't sell well then it won't get a lot of support. I'm just hoping the rules are good, because they are, even if we only end up with the six initial factions, I'll still have a perfectly playable game and be happy with it.
 

This is fair.

However, I have been playing miniature games since the late 80s.  I still own just about every game I have purchased over that time.  I have a dumb amount of games in my garage, closet, and office that will likely never get played again.  Games like this require multiple players.  Plenty of dead games have fantastic rules.  Great rules is not the primary key to success for a game in my experience.  It sucks to have games that you really like but that are overly difficult to find people to play with.

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GW has provided excellent support for most of their recent games. Underworlds is up 18 announced warbands so far.  GW just announced the 11th plastic bloodbowl team. Necromunda is getting continued support with guilds on the way. Killteam has already had 4 major expansions announced and many bundled box sets. Even Blackstone fortress is getting expansions. 

Adeptus Titanicus is a far more niche product than warcry with no possibility of minis being used in other systems except a hypothetical future epic release, but they recently announced the second add on book and we have seen more titans, Knights, scenery and weapon packs.

Many assumed lotr to be dead after the relative failure of the Hobbit game but it is back with new plastics. 

I have no doubt that warcry will have a very healthy amount of support. 

Also given the lead time of the design studio, they are probably already designing a second series of warbands. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

Unless they branch this out to more factions this strikes me as another GorkaMorka - where you can have really great rules and a fun game but end up with extremely restricted sales and lack of broader interest.  

Great rules!? Clearly sir you cannot be talkin about Gorkamorka. It sure is fun but that rulebook was a grade A mess. The game was dropped in 1999 I believe, and still today you can find a ton of forums asking new questions the rules never adressed. Even if you do somehow find a way through the maze of  puncline jokes and well hidden but overly complicated examples that is Da Roolz the game is so very unbalanced. In fact, not too long ago I actually accomplished taking out my opponents mob before his first turn, all due to the mayhem created by a single Rokkit Launcha missile.

God I love Gorkamorka... 

Anyway I realize your point was something entirely else, so I will get off my high horse now and support your point instead😉

Edited by Greasygeek
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The one thing though I'm curious about, is Warcry going to be inserted into AoS?

I cross posted Warcry into the Everchosen/Slaves to Darkness topic because it seems suspiciously running parallel to the eventual Everchosen/Slaves update.

Sure one could argue Necromunda isn't compatible with 40k, but on the other hand these are literally chaos mortals (and also beasts). Would they be premade unique units like Underworlds, or able to be bulked up as normal units? I gues time will tell.

 

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Well if the while point with warcry is that you control a bunch of would be warriors thats going through hell to become Archaons BFF, wouldn’t that mean that they lore wise are too weak to join a chaos army yet?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Great rules!? Clearly sir you cannot be talkin about Gorkamorka. It sure is fun but that rulebook was a grade A mess. The game was dropped in 1999 I believe, and still today you can find a ton of forums asking new questions the rules never adressed. Even if you do somehow find a way through the maze of  puncline jokes and well hidden but overly complicated examples that is Da Roolz the game is so very unbalanced. In fact, not too long ago I actually accomplished taking out my opponents mob before his first turn, all due to the mayhem created by a single Rokkit Launcha missile.

God I love Gorkamorka... 

Anyway I realize your point was something entirely else, so I will get off my high horse now and support your point instead😉

To be fair, just about every GW rulebook from that era is a relative mess.  The rules worked well at the time for what the game was meant to be - and the game was great fun.  Most of the games from that era were terribly unbalanced and their skirmish games were all prone to very lopsided campaigns if there was not some sort of Arbiter to try to keep campaigns from falling apart.

But regardless, the failure of that game was not the state of the rules.  Multiple editions of 40k can attest to poor rules not necessarily being the downfall of a game.  GorkaMorka was a full game product that pretty much only Ork players really wanted and that was not a large enough customer base to sell the absurd amount of copies they printed.  Back then they were giving away full copies of the game with White Dwarf subscriptions just to dump the inventory.

I doubt Warcry ends up doing that well, but it feels like a similar situation in regards to being a long-term product by limiting broader interest.   But maybe I am wrong and I hope that is the case.

Edited by Skabnoze

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26 minutes ago, Chikout said:

GW has provided excellent support for most of their recent games. Underworlds is up 18 announced warbands so far. 

To be Devil's advocate, the majority of the first season is no longer available as teams.  You can get the models as easy-build kits but not the cards.  So for anyone buying into the game now there are not really 18 warbands.  I am curious to see how well the strategy for retiring factions works out in the long term.

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Seems like they are in many ways, not just with AOS but most of their games, following the Magic the Gathering carousel.

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