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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. 

My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Morathi -Khaine and Shadow Queen (600)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples  
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings  
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (100)
- Artefact: Blood Sigil - Catechism of Murder  
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Witch Aelves (120)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Ive had to drop the SQ to a Hag on Cob but Little Morathi staying the the table makes up for it.  

The transform and charge alpha has gone from Morathi but you gain a 2nd ‘Never die” hero.  


 

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1 minute ago, Ben said:

Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. 

My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. 

I see it's mostly about unit that is not present in your list😉

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1 hour ago, Boar said:

I see it's mostly about unit that is not present in your list😉

Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once 

she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. 

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I suspect that's mostly because the Morathi update is fairly well-regarded, barring transformation trickery it's pretty much a straight upgrade from how she was being played before, and certainly I'm delighted to be able to use both of those lovely models at the same time!  If anything the great Morathi update makes the changes to blood sisters more disappointing, as a warscroll that has pretty much always compared unfavourably to Witches in the majority of cases I'd imagine people were looking for a similar fine-tuning of their stats or a proper niche being established for them,  when you could almost argue they got the opposite of that as they lost a lot of their ability to deal with high armour saves via mortal wounds.

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24 minutes ago, Ben said:

Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once 

she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. 

Morathi has been mentioned positively in several posts, as have thr improvements to blood stalkers. The frustration comes from the blood sister changes and the ironscale that has fallen flat on release. Between those poor scrolls and the temple, snakes seem to be in a worse spot than previous. 

You're correct in that lists like yours are no worse, and probably better. But for myself, I want to play snakes, and they're even more outshines by the elves.

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4 hours ago, Ben said:

Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. 

 

Because the giant update aimed at lifting up snake/bat builds ended up making those armies worse.

Morathi is awesome...but everything else falls flat on its face.

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5 hours ago, Ben said:

Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. 

My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Morathi -Khaine and Shadow Queen (600)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples  
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings  
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (100)
- Artefact: Blood Sigil - Catechism of Murder  
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Witch Aelves (120)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Ive had to drop the SQ to a Hag on Cob but Little Morathi staying the the table makes up for it.  

The transform and charge alpha has gone from Morathi but you gain a 2nd ‘Never die” hero.  


 

Hi Ben,

Like the list, solid and versitile as before and yeah losing SQ for HQ but new Morathi is worth it.

Not got hate for new rules, its just different. I think people miss the 4+ MW from sisters but tbh I rarely got a high effect from it and since the unit gets it now but at end of comabt I dont mind, I was mainly in it for the 3A/ 3+/3+ Rend 1

its kinda a shame you cant squeeze 40pts to get the blade coven over normal hag for survivability

What do you think to Blood Stalkers with Morathi?

I think the issue atm is there are so many options people wanna try and tes tto see what works for them but ****** COVID ****** up everything 

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Idea for a mixed list:

Hagg Nar
Morathi: 600pts – MindRazor
Hag on Cauldron: 290 – General, Blessing of Khaine, Iron Circlet, devoted Disciples
30 Sisters of Slaughter: 300 – Bucklers
10 Witch Aelves: 120 – Bucklers
10 Witch Aelves: 120 – Bucklers
20 Blood Stalkers: 560

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On 11/7/2020 at 11:48 AM, DJMoose said:

The wording on the Turned to Crystal ability is awful. Depending on how you read it a Blood Sisters unit would either a) roll a 3+ for each model in their unit and inflict MWs or b) roll a 3+ for each model in the enemy unit and inflict MWs. My guess is the intent is each model in the enemy unit, which in that case is a HUGE nerf.

So much for taking down a Mega-Gargant in one round of combat.

I agree with everyone that Crystal Touch has been ruined, they couldve atleast kept it like they have for evocators.

IF anyones interested in making them work still, i recommend taking a Shark (Allopex) from IDK with a net launcher

On a hit roll of 3 and you only have to hit, not wound, the enemy unit cant pile in. Not good for monsters, but for other mass units, it might help

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Crystal touch could have become what it is now plus the bladed buckler MW rule on a 5+ (Reposte and touch the Enemy) So you can still deal MWs even if your unit gets shredded in melee.

Thos would also be thematic

Edited by JackStreicher
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All they needed to do was a rule that let's us not modify the amount of crystal touches a unit can make... Instead they utterly destroyed it. 

What is the issue to write something like "the amount of attacks this unit can make with their crystal touch can never be more than written in the warscroll characteristics" 

 

:/

 

Crystal touch was one of the rare tools of DoK to deal with high armor saves... Now we basically just have Morathi left for this 

Edited by Xil
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19 hours ago, Ben said:

Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once 

she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. 

If you go back we pretty much determined Morathi was fantastic in the first 3-4 posts and never brought it up again because we never really needed to.

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So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it

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1 hour ago, Chumphammer said:

So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it

I'm just going to shame whoever brings that nonsense haha. In reality, I think this is one instance in which a big block of melee snakes is useful. Them + mind razor has decent enough rend with 2 damage each to put some hurt on the libs. Then, since the liberators don't do a ton of damage, you'll likely have a decent number of snakes left for crystal touches.

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19 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it

It's honestly not super relevant.  I doubt you'll even see it because of how few...cares...kharadron seraphon and tzeentch give about a list like that. They need a character to get up to 2+ and they need to not move OR redeploy in order to stand fast AND it has to be in THEIR movement phase so realistically this will only ever come into play if you let them set up on an objective uncontested or they get a double turn where they're already in combat with you.  On the flip side, YOU getting the double turn before he can position to get the buff would end the game immediately. (If they keep the liberators in the sky to drop they BETTER be going second because you can just hold the double turn all game until they do and then they're stuck with a flaccid drop that loses instantly if you win the next turn roll).

Even at 2+ rerolling it would be a shooting gallery for the big 3 and an easy win on objectives for most other melee armies.  

If you know for a fact that you'll be facing a list like this, the Morath+20 stalkers Khailebron list is a pretty good counter considering that you can still kill liberators pretty well, the snakes are fairly easy to protect and the list is fast enough to just outrun the Stormcasts if you need to.

Edited by Fred1245

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There is a interesting list I like from "Strangeguy" on the whattsapp DOK group:

Khelibron
Morathi: 600 Steed of Shadows (or Mirror Dance)
Bloodwrack Medusa : 140 -General, shadowstone, mistress of illusion, Mindrazor
10 Blood Sisters: 280
5 Blood Sisters: 140
5 Blood Sisters: 140
15 Blood Stalkers: 420
5 Blood Stalkers: 140
Temple Nest: 130

1990pts - 3 Drops, 4 Casts, 3 dispels

Deploy Medusa back with 15 snakes (depending if you get 1st turn)

Teleport 15 snakes into a good range for your target but still in range of Morathi-Khaines command ability. Shoot biggest threat. Cast Steed of shadows on Morathi-khaine

Morathi-khaine and Shadow Queen can throw themselves forwards 14 & 16" giving you a good chance of clipping a unit you want to hold up

Shoot big threat/opportunity in shooting phase

I want to try this list 1st I think then also Bens list. Both I think are strong in current Meta


 

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Both lists sounds cool!

sadly I have too few snakes to test them ^^

Edited by JackStreicher

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1 hour ago, Chumphammer said:

There is a interesting list I like from "Strangeguy" on the whattsapp DOK group:

Khelibron
Morathi: 600 Steed of Shadows (or Mirror Dance)
Bloodwrack Medusa : 140 -General, shadowstone, mistress of illusion, Mindrazor
10 Blood Sisters: 280
5 Blood Sisters: 140
5 Blood Sisters: 140
15 Blood Stalkers: 420
5 Blood Stalkers: 140
Temple Nest: 130

1990pts - 3 Drops, 4 Casts, 3 dispels

Deploy Medusa back with 15 snakes (depending if you get 1st turn)

Teleport 15 snakes into a good range for your target but still in range of Morathi-Khaines command ability. Shoot biggest threat. Cast Steed of shadows on Morathi-khaine

Morathi-khaine and Shadow Queen can throw themselves forwards 14 & 16" giving you a good chance of clipping a unit you want to hold up

Shoot big threat/opportunity in shooting phase

I want to try this list 1st I think then also Bens list. Both I think are strong in current Meta


 

Its actually 2 drop. Its pretty similar to what I posted as viable, a few days ago.

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2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Its actually 2 drop. Its pretty similar to what I posted as viable, a few days ago.

Morathi is now 2 drops, as 2 models/warscrolls

So its 3. Vyper Squad covers both in the battalion 

Same as Blade Coven is 2 drops 
 

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Did we find out if there are points for the new Ironscale? I have a feeling like the app is going to update and there will be be new errata but no word yet.

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21 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Did we find out if there are points for the new Ironscale? I have a feeling like the app is going to update and there will be be new errata but no word yet.

Ironscale is 140pts

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3 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Morathi is now 2 drops, as 2 models/warscrolls

So its 3. Vyper Squad covers both in the battalion 

Same as Blade Coven is 2 drops 
 

You're right of course I keep forgetting that Morathi is a underworlds band.

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