AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Richelieu]

32 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Or a buffed Verminlord Corruptor with the Sword of Judgement; can still eat through that 4+ ignore with some good rolls... those things scare me. 

Even if the vermin Lord was triggering the blade on 4+ and he got lucky the star Drake should only take about a dozen mortals in one combat phase.  The scary thing though is that since it never gets past the hit roll you wouldn't get many chances to heal with warding lantern.

[Freejack02]

1 minute ago, Richelieu said:

Even if the vermin Lord was triggering the blade on 4+ and he got lucky the star Drake should only take about a dozen mortals in one combat phase.  The scary thing though is that since it never gets past the hit roll you wouldn't get many chances to heal with warding lantern.

Yeah, that scenario has happened (triggering on a 4+ with the innate reroll failures). He put out around 20 mortals that massively overkilled a LAoGC, and I realized how much damage it could really do with good dice. It would take luck; but if the Stardrake isn't equipped with the Scales it's a scary scenario. 

(Skaven are my most common opponent, so this likely won't be a problem for anyone else). 

[PJetski]

6 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

So serious question: why are the Stormcast wizards so dang expensive? Why make a release focused on magic and then have none of your magic users worth a hoot? 

LAoGC and Incantor are both solid for their points, but not great.  And everything else is just bad.  I mean, 180 points for LA on foot is just perplexing, especially in relation to Reikenor at the same price.  He has maybe the worst command ability in the entire game and he's only barely better than a sequitor prime in melee.  Sure he has the suicide vest, but that's situational at best.  

This is not to say I'm complaining about the sacrosanct release as a whole.  There's lots to like and SC are stronger than anytime in the past two years, but...I just wish the wizards were worth their salt.  

I think most of the Stormcast wizards are expensive because they are genuinely strong. Even the Arcanum on foot is wizard with a 3+ save (with access to multiple save buffs), Cycle of the Storm (gets better the more you have), Spirit Flasks, a command ability, and some of the best allegiance abilities in the game. 

That said, I could see them reducing the cost of Lord-Arcanum, Lord-Exorcist, and both Tauralons by 20pt. 

On a side note, I find it very odd that the Arcanum can't get on the Dais Arcanum since the fluff in the battletome mentions that combination quite a few times...

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

 

That said, I could see them reducing the cost of Lord-Arcanum, Lord-Exorcist, and both Tauralons by 20pt. 

 

On a whole many wizards got some price bumps which puts them in a bit of a rut. Even Tzeentch, king of wizards, has people complaining about the usefulness of the LoC outside of fate point spam (he costs more than 2 gaunt summoners, who can also use balewinds). The college wizards also got some price bump which puts them a little too close to SC wizards. While some of their spells are nice, it might be more useful to spend the extra 20pts for SC stats.

[Defonotaspambot]

I feel like a lot of people cast GW as a malign and plotting overlord destabilising their own games on purpose for in tireless pursuit of profit like Gary Oldman in the Fifth Element. In my opinion in most cases it comes down to simple human error, incompetence, naivety and deadlines. I imagine that the reason that the unit sizes in Soul Wars are odd is because there was a deadline for getting in into production which was before they finished playtesting the new Battletome and they originally intended for Castigators to be in units of 5 and Evocators in units of 3. There are cases of the old GW doing some really ****** things like the Eldar Codex for 7th edition 40k  but a lot was just for stupid reasons like the accidental squatting of the Tomb Kings. 

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, Defonotaspambot said:

I feel like a lot of people cast GW as a malign and plotting overlord destabilising their own games on purpose for in tireless pursuit of profit like Gary Oldman in the Fifth Element. In my opinion in most cases it comes down to simple human error, incompetence, naivety and deadlines. I imagine that the reason that the unit sizes in Soul Wars are odd is because there was a deadline for getting in into production which was before they finished playtesting the new Battletome and they originally intended for Castigators to be in units of 5 and Evocators in units of 3. There are cases of the old GW doing some really ****** things like the Eldar Codex for 7th edition 40k  but a lot was just for stupid reasons like the accidental squatting of the Tomb Kings. 

So rampant incompetence should be excused because it's not malicious? I'm not sure which light I'd rather them painted in.

While I do agree with your Castigator/Evocator numbers scenario, there can be no doubt that some scenarios are purely profit driven. Look at how bad of a spot Nighthaunt players are in with their Chainrasps being $40 per 10, similar to Witch Aelves (who are even worse) - a horde unit. There's no reason for 10 easy to build snap models to cost that much other than pushing profits to the extreme. Or Evocators/Sequitors being so superior to the already numerous Paladins/Liberators (bit of a conspiracy theory on that one maybe, but I believe it). 

[Kugane]

5 hours ago, Richelieu said:

So serious question: why are the Stormcast wizards so dang expensive? Why make a release focused on magic and then have none of your magic users worth a hoot? 

LAoGC and Incantor are both solid for their points, but not great.  And everything else is just bad.  I mean, 180 points for LA on foot is just perplexing, especially in relation to Reikenor at the same price.  He has maybe the worst command ability in the entire game and he's only barely better than a sequitor prime in melee.  Sure he has the suicide vest, but that's situational at best.  

This is not to say I'm complaining about the sacrosanct release as a whole.  There's lots to like and SC are stronger than anytime in the past two years, but...I just wish the wizards were worth their salt.  

I think they made the wizards expensive so people wont ally them in over their normal wizards. Its the only reason I can think of. 

 

On a side note: can you ally in a comet endless spell?

[ledha]

(deleted, failed topic)

Edited August 3, 2018 by ledha

[Freejack02]

49 minutes ago, Kugane said:

On a side note: can you ally in a comet endless spell?

The Everblaze Comet doesn't have the Stormcast keyword, so I believe it can legally be taken by any army - but can only be cast by a Stormcast Eternal Wizard. As long as you ally one of those in to cast it, should be fine. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Freejack02

[Kugane]

Just now, Freejack02 said:

The Everblaze Comet doesn't have the Stormcast keyword, so I believe it can legally be taken by any army - but can only be cast by a Stormcast Eternal Wizard. 

I see, so does it even cost ally points? Because if not, it would be quite fun siding in an incantor or two to cast it

[Freejack02]

7 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I see, so does it even cost ally points? Because if not, it would be quite fun siding in an incantor or two to cast it

Nope, shouldn't cost ally points - unless there's some rule that just puts them into the SCE faction without the keyword (doubt it, but possible... I don't actually have the Malign Sorcery book to reference). 

[Kugane]

Just now, Freejack02 said:

Nope, shouldn't cost ally points - unless there's some rule that just puts them into the SCE faction without the keyword (doubt it, but possible... I don't actually have the Malign Sorcery book to reference). 

Awesome, thank you for the info! Now to find some lists where these wizards would fit into nicely! ^^

[kozokus]

7 hours ago, Richelieu said:

 

LAoGC and Incantor are both solid for their points, but not great.  And everything else is just bad.  I mean, 180 points for LA on foot is just perplexing, especially in relation to Reikenor at the same price.  He has maybe the worst command ability in the entire game and he's only barely better than a sequitor prime in melee.  Sure he has the suicide vest, but that's situational at best.  

Jump him on the Sigmar Disc, throw some mystic shield and run into the ennemy with his 2+ rerollable. Joyful

[Richelieu]

2 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Jump him on the Sigmar Disc, throw some mystic shield and run into the ennemy with his 2+ rerollable. Joyful

He can't go on the sigmar disc, he has too many wounds.

[kozokus]

1 minute ago, Richelieu said:

He can't go on the sigmar disc, he has too many wounds.

re-read the rule

[Richelieu]

5 minutes ago, kozokus said:

re-read the rule

You're right.  It's and.  My LAoGC sure is going to look goofy on it.

[Redking]

With Sequitors coming out tomorrow I’m wondering if it’s worth equipping a unit with tempest blades.  I have two 5 man from the starter and easy builds, so this would be either a 5 man or 10 with swords.  Any reason to take the redemption cache?  I’m thinking it’s too niche and a great hammer would be better.

[Galamund]

Just now, Redking said:

With Sequitors coming out tomorrow I’m wondering if it’s worth equipping a unit with tempest blades.  I have two 5 man from the starter and easy builds, so this would be either a 5 man or 10 with swords.  Any reason to take the redemption cache?  I’m thinking it’s too niche and a great hammer would be better.

Greathammer is 100% better on the Prime. In terms of the Blades, if they're sufficiently buffed they are better than the Mauls, I think most would agree to both those points. The question is, as far as I'm concerned: is it worth all the bloody effort to convert 11 of 20 men in giant unit, and also reliably buff them with Empower and Celestial Blades, to be worth the physical effort of effecting the conversion? They get an extra attack then, but you can't always depend on getting those casts off.

[Black Blade]

I don't know what to do with the last 140 points? What is my list missing that I could take with 140 pts?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (100)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury 
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Battleline
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warblade & Shield
- 2x Grandblades
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Units
4 x Fulminators (480)
5 x Retributors (220)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

Total: 1860 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

[Freejack02]

22 minutes ago, Galamund said:

In terms of the Blades, if they're sufficiently buffed they are better than the Mauls

Blades are better by default (by a small margin), but attack buffs let the mauls catch up. I don't think the difference is large enough to warrant conversions unless you really like the look, or really need that .1 average damage.

[Redking]

39 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Blades are better by default (by a small margin), but attack buffs let the mauls catch up. I don't think the difference is large enough to warrant conversions unless you really like the look, or really need that .1 average damage.

No need to convert, the full kit box comes with swords.  I will keep the two units that I have with mauls and build the box with swords.  Thanks

[Oldshrimpeyes]

On 7/22/2018 at 10:57 PM, Richelieu said:

Here's a variant with a sequitur screen.  You could swap the 20 sequitors for 10 evocators of that's your fancy.  The list's offense would be off the charts if you did, but it wouldn't be as good at protecting the castigators or controlling the board.

 

On 7/22/2018 at 10:57 PM, Richelieu said:

 

Is this list, and/or the Soul Strike approach actually a legit tactic or more a one trick pony? Genuine question, I have been thinking about going down this route to shake up my local meta but don't want to deep dive on castigators if it's too much of a glass hammer,

[Oldshrimpeyes]

Something like this, perhaps? Utter Stormcast noob here but my thinking was to sacrifice some of the dakka and install some magical support.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
12 x Castigators (320)
12 x Castigators (320)
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
Celestar Ballista (100)
Soulstrike Brotherhood (120)
Dais Arcanum (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Oldshrimpeyes
Spelling

[Melcavuk]

Any thoughts on my potential list, will mostly be playing against my other half so have flag ruled out things like the comet which would likely ruin her enjoyment of the game. Aim is to have a solid backfield support in the judicators and artillery with the lord ordinator, and then have a fast hitting force of all the dracolines with the sequitors supporting where needed.

[GeneralZero]

10 hours ago, kozokus said:

10 hours ago, Richelieu said:

He can't go on the sigmar disc, he has too many wounds.

re-read the rule

Dais Arcanum: only wizzards that do not have wounds of 6 or more... That means that the Lord Arcanum (w=6 and LAoGC=7) can't get on the disc. Or did I miss something?