AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

make that one drop so massive that you win the game off the back of it.

This will indeed win you games its true!

28 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I'm really liking 10x Evocators backed by a Heraldor and Battlemage

I mean, I hear 10 Evocators and a bunch of Annihalators is pretty spicy right now. I can't see those scrolls getting worse post new tome.

My own hope is that lots of other previously niche stuff becomes extra spicy or downright saucy.

 

 

[PrimeElectrid]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

This will indeed win you games its true!

I mean, I hear 10 Evocators and a bunch of Annihalators is pretty spicy right now. I can't see those scrolls getting worse post new tome.

My own hope is that lots of other previously niche stuff becomes extra spicy or downright saucy.

 

 

I’m considering dropping the Evocators or at least going 5 because it’s actually very difficult to fit them all into combat. Usually your opponent only leaves a very small gap into a priority target to exploit. You want to charge the annihilators first so you can get their impact mortals; however, once you’ve moved 6 models (let alone 9 or 12) there may not be a gap to get the Evocators in.

Sure they could charge something near by and just get into 3” to tap, but this is the sort of practical consideration that isn’t accounted for in theory crafting

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

I’m considering dropping the Evocators or at least going 5 because it’s actually very difficult to fit them all into combat. Usually your opponent only leaves a very small gap into a priority target to exploit. You want to charge the annihilators first so you can get their impact mortals; however, once you’ve moved 6 models (let alone 9 or 12) there may not be a gap to get the Evocators in.

Sure they could charge something near by and just get into 3” to tap, but this is the sort of practical consideration that isn’t accounted for in theory crafting

I think you really need to make the choice of whether you are running the Annihilators OR the evocators.  They both want to do more or less the same thing - drop from the sky, make a charge, and then lay the beatdown on.  Evocators deal more mortal wounds after they attack, while Annihilators will deal more on entry/charge, so don't necessarily always have to attack first, and also can afford to deal some chip damage all around rather than just hitting a single unit.

However, if you end up running both, I think your list will suffer from trying to go too far "all in" on that one thing.  Both units want to drop from the sky, both units want to be wholly within 12" of gavriel for the extra 3" to charge, and both units are going to be sitting around doing not much after they clear out whatever they attack.  Though at least here the Annihilators will be a bit more survivable to non-mortal wound damage.

[Turragor]

I have rediscovered (building last of Dominion box) my biggest pet peeve. I hope it is remedied in the new tome.

Gryph hounds (in various forms) come with 3 different base sizes...

That is all.

[PrimeElectrid]

8 minutes ago, readercolin said:

I think you really need to make the choice of whether you are running the Annihilators OR the evocators.  They both want to do more or less the same thing - drop from the sky, make a charge, and then lay the beatdown on.  Evocators deal more mortal wounds after they attack, while Annihilators will deal more on entry/charge, so don't necessarily always have to attack first, and also can afford to deal some chip damage all around rather than just hitting a single unit.

However, if you end up running both, I think your list will suffer from trying to go too far "all in" on that one thing.  Both units want to drop from the sky, both units want to be wholly within 12" of gavriel for the extra 3" to charge, and both units are going to be sitting around doing not much after they clear out whatever they attack.  Though at least here the Annihilators will be a bit more survivable to non-mortal wound damage.

They actually synergise with each other quite well. The annihilators do a bunch of damage but it’s limited to that 10/1”. If there’s a screen in the way of an important target they are SOL. Meanwhile the Evocators can reach 3” away to tap for the mortals.

Evocators also grind surprisingly well as they keep putting out mortals until they all die, but the annihilators are limited to r1 (which might as well be rend 0).

It was trivial to get 6 and 10 Evocators wholly within 12” of Gavriel. And the point is that once they’ve come in they don’t need to make their presence known elsewhere as they should be killing ~1000 points themselves.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Colgado]

Annihilators will also have a weapon option (likely at the cost of the 2+), this will help with their output beyond the mortals. It will be interesting to see if it's replace all or 1-2 per unit.

[Thostos]

So...it seems that having monsters in a list is now almost a must with the new edition and all the bonus VPs monsters can bring in.
 Would love to use my Templar but at 420 pts its still lacking a bit in the return on investment part.Was contemplating the Turalon,the model is awesome and it does bring in a wizard with 2 casts and a bit of synergy with shooting units having the 'now juicy" rr hit rolls of 1.Not sure if its worth the 300 pts but being a fast flying monster that will take some concentrated effort to take down with its 3+ save and access to all out defence..and its command ability can increase its run by 2 even making it have outstanding reach for an objective steal or redeploy.Its overall damage output is of cours a bit lacking but there are some artifacts that can boost that as well.

 

[PrimeElectrid]

7 minutes ago, Thostos said:

So...it seems that having monsters in a list is now almost a must with the new edition and all the bonus VPs monsters can bring in.
 Would love to use my Templar but at 420 pts its still lacking a bit in the return on investment part.Was contemplating the Turalon,the model is awesome and it does bring in a wizard with 2 casts and a bit of synergy with shooting units having the 'now juicy" rr hit rolls of 1.Not sure if its worth the 300 pts but being a fast flying monster that will take some concentrated effort to take down with its 3+ save and access to all out defence..and its command ability can increase its run by 2 even making it have outstanding reach for an objective steal or redeploy.Its overall damage output is of cours a bit lacking but there are some artifacts that can boost that as well.

 

For what it’s worth I would have much preferred to have a Tauralon over Yndrasta at the weekend. 

[Champasaur]

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

[dicebod]

53 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

It's pretty oppressive...but it's only 12"

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, Champasaur said:

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

this seems...overbearing even at 12" ? looks like we have to wait until end of August to see SCE counterplays

[Colgado]

1 hour ago, dicebod said:

It's pretty oppressive...but it's only 12"

The vulture character can also use the mentioned double move spell to move 14 then cast it. 26" range is not bad at all. 

[PrimeElectrid]

3 hours ago, Champasaur said:

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

It is absolutely not the best spell in the game, because Mystic shield exists, let alone anything in the LRL book. It’s not even the best Kruleboyz spell previewed: -1 charge and a free normal move are much, much better.

7 MWs sounds bad but it’s only 3 Vindictors. I’m not even reaching for Inspiring Presence on that.Not only are there spells which do more damage than that, but that is positively tame by shooting standards.

Finally units of 10 are the largest that SCE should go and even then maybe too large. This is an MSU meta.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Champasaur]

19 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

It is absolutely not the best spell in the game, because Mystic shield exists, let alone anything in the LRL book. It’s not even the best Kruleboyz spell previewed: -1 charge and a free normal move are much, much better.

7 MWs sounds bad but it’s only 3 Vindictors. I’m not even reaching for Inspiring Presence on that.Not only are there spells which do more damage than that, but that is positively tame by shooting standards.

Finally units of 10 are the largest that SCE should go and even then maybe too large. This is an MSU meta.

 

I really don’t think Mystic Shield is the best spell (and regardless I said Da Black Pit is *one* of the best). There are so many +1 save effects in the game now that it’s lost a lot of its luster.

And just for comparison, the Chaos Sorc Lord on Mant. has the spell Winds of Chaos which is one of, if not the best, hordebreaker spells in the game. I feel like this spell is very comparable to it except it’s specialized against elite infantry rather than large hordes (and has a 6” smaller range). 7 MW on a spell with a casting value of 7 has excellent value. And I’m not sure what shooting you are comparing 7MW to unless it’s Lumineth Sentinels, and if we’re comparing this spell to Sentinels then well…
 

The biggest downside to Da Black Pit? You have to choose between it and Sneaky Miasma unless you take another spell enhancement.
 

 

[PJetski]

7 hours ago, Champasaur said:

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

It's pretty good if you can cast it on a double reinforced unit of Vindictors... otherwise pretty meh. Most units with good save characteristic usually don't come in large groups.

[Sigmarusvult]

12 hours ago, Champasaur said:

so is it just me or is this like one of the best spells in the game? And it *really* works well against SCE?

like… goodbye my 10 vindictors, here’s 7 MW on average.

It's fine on elite unit like SCE, the casting roll is quite high  and the range is short. I'd be more concern if I was playing CoS. 

[PrimeElectrid]

8 hours ago, Champasaur said:

I really don’t think Mystic Shield is the best spell (and regardless I said Da Black Pit is *one* of the best). There are so many +1 save effects in the game now that it’s lost a lot of its luster.

And just for comparison, the Chaos Sorc Lord on Mant. has the spell Winds of Chaos which is one of, if not the best, hordebreaker spells in the game. I feel like this spell is very comparable to it except it’s specialized against elite infantry rather than large hordes (and has a 6” smaller range). 7 MW on a spell with a casting value of 7 has excellent value. And I’m not sure what shooting you are comparing 7MW to unless it’s Lumineth Sentinels, and if we’re comparing this spell to Sentinels then well…
 

The biggest downside to Da Black Pit? You have to choose between it and Sneaky Miasma unless you take another spell enhancement.
 

 

Ah yes I misread.

Anyway I guess my points is that there is a big opportunity cost to casting this spell let alone the range requirement just to kill 3 Vindictors. It will be even worse against Liberators, any unit of 5, or the new Knights. That doesn’t concern me.

Long ago I started thinking about damage spells the same as shooting attacks; which is to say sometimes you are going to take damage at range and there’s not much you can do about it. Models dying are part of the game. But it’s the utility spells or buffs/debuffs that are usually key. Am I concerned if the Lumineth player shoots sentinels at Vindictors and kills 3? Not really.

[Champasaur]

It's also quite good against Mortek Guard since they normally come in groups of 20

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 hours ago, Sigmarusvult said:

It's fine on elite unit like SCE, the casting roll is quite high  and the range is short. I'd be more concern if I was playing CoS. 

The spell has few really juicy targets, I feel. High save units frequently come with at least 2 wounds, as well, which cuts the effectiveness of the spell in half, essentially. There are already ways to deal a mortal wound on a 4+ per model in a unit if I'm not mistaken, so if that's the bar to beat, the Black Pit has some work to do.

It will wreck a unit of Ironbreakers, though.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

High save units frequently come with at least 2 wounds, as well, which cuts the effectiveness of the spell in half, essentially.

I don't understand this logic. Just because the spell could kill more models if it targets a 1 wound unit with the same save and model count really doesn't mean anything.

Is the effectiveness of 6 mortal wound spell "essentially cut in half" if it targets something with 12 wounds?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

I don't understand this logic. Just because the spell could kill more models if it targets a 1 wound unit with the same save and model count really doesn't mean anything.

Is the effectiveness of 6 mortal wound spell "essentially cut in half" if it targets something with 12 wounds?

What I am getting at is that you get to roll dice depending on the number of models in the unit. So the Black Pit and other horde killer spells are the most effective against units whose wound total is equal to their model number. Simply because you get to roll more dice.

So there are two characteristics of a unit that make them a more attractive target for Black Pit: High save and low wounds per model. Stormcast are high saves, that's true. But their high wounds per model still mean the spell is less effective on them compared to other units.

Like, if you have a unit with a 3+ save and 2 wounds at a minimum unit size of 5, the Black Pit deals the same damage against them as it would against Skeleton warriors with their 5+ save and unit size 10. Not double as you might expect at first glance.

[mystycalchemy]

Oooooh, the dragon princes seem super neat! Both have fire breath and a super sweeping tail, Krondys (blue) is a caster with a nasty spell and can cast two per turn while using his fancy armour to add up to +3 to his casting rolls while Karazai is apparently a combat focused dragon, but little new information in the new article about him. 

Also confirmed that there are 76(!!) Warscrolls in the new battletome. I think other armies need new releases for a very long while, no army comes close to that number.

[Fuxxx]

Does anyone have the number of current warscrolls plus Stormsire and the ones from the Dominion box to estimate how many more we'll get?

[jeanfluflu]

2 minutes ago, Fuxxx said:

Does anyone have the number of current warscrolls plus Stormsire and the ones from the Dominion box to estimate how many more we'll get?

Well a rapid look at the warscroll builder tells me that we currently have 63 warscrolls available (couting the dominion box).

add to that:
2 dragon princes
1 named character for hammer sof sigmar
knight relictor
Knight judicator
bladed vindictor
big hammer annihilators
new archery unit.
drake cavalry
drake hero

 

brings the total to 73 warscrolls, maybe i missed some of them (maybe we can add the sequitor underworld band as well as Gardus steelsoul).

I think no more new units.

[PJetski]

Starseer Control Fate -1 save

Krondys storm for another -1 save

Geminids to prevent AOD

We gonna shoot our way out of the 3+ monster meta