AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Craze]

41 minutes ago, Kramig said:

Since the flying bow have 2 wounds, I think so

I think Gossamids having two wounds makes it unrealistic to hope for two wound Revenants, as the second wound most probably comes from the Flybug attached to them.

[pixieproxy]

I just hope both of the old revenant units get something that makes them relevant, the buff to Namarti thralls was great and I'd love something similar. The current scroll for BowKurnoth is especially bad too when compared to Gossamids tbh.

[dikakos]

Hello i have preorder echoes of doom sylvaneth part. I was thinking grabbing a second one for a 2k army. Worth it or waiting to buy something else? 

[Domize]

3 minutes ago, dikakos said:

Hello i have preorder echoes of doom sylvaneth part. I was thinking grabbing a second one for a 2k army. Worth it or waiting to buy something else? 

Definitely don't grab a second one, as you can only run one copy of the Lady of Vines. You'll be much better off getting a Start Collecting box to get the dryads that Lady of Vines summons, or the Drycha's Spitegrove box for some Tree Revenant battleline. You might want to grab another box of some Kurnoth Hunters too. However all of this is potentially gonna change once the Battletome drops – so could be worth just painting what you've got for now, then buying more once we have more information.

[pixieproxy]

18 minutes ago, Domize said:

Definitely don't grab a second one, as you can only run one copy of the Lady of Vines. You'll be much better off getting a Start Collecting box to get the dryads that Lady of Vines summons, or the Drycha's Spitegrove box for some Tree Revenant battleline. You might want to grab another box of some Kurnoth Hunters too. However all of this is potentially gonna change once the Battletome drops – so could be worth just painting what you've got for now, then buying more once we have more information.

To be fair even *with* the extra lady, if you can sell off the skaven it's a real good deal. 5 Gossamids, 3 Kurnoth and a Tree Lord are definitely worth more retail than half that box

[maitremage]

6 hours ago, Kramig said:

Since the flying bow have 2 wounds, I think so

I don’t think so : I think the flying bow have 2 wounds because of the spite in the back…

[robbobobo]

Hey all!

Got a tournament in a few weeks and I'm brushing up a last hurrah to the current book before the new one comes out. I feel this is just right. I'm always open to suggestions for any changes!

[Landohammer]

19 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

So have I, but to be honest if they're all as bad as the Greatbow option then it might be a cursed wish. Hopefully the melee variants stay at least as effective as they have been (and hopefully get improved). 

The melee guys will definitely get a price hike to match the bows. But they are also likely to get the 3+ save. That being said, 255 is still very expensive for that profile. But if they revamp our core allegiance abilities then it could justify the price hike and make it less painful. Consider that outside of Winterleaf, our core allegiance abilities don't do much of anything for them. 

16 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I wonder if Treevenants will have 2 Wounds?

I hope so. I know the Alarielle summoning table has historically been terrible at providing balanced options, but I find it notable that a 255pt Kurnoth unit, 215 Gossamid unit (and assumable a much more expensive treelord) is listed next to 10 spites and 10 Tree Revs.

I sincerely hope they do SOMETHING to make our small infantry guys worthwhile outside of cheap battleline filler. And an extra wound could go a long way towards that.

Since we are likely to get some pretty strong battleline unlocks (and with reinforcement points not going away), i fear leaving revenants as-is could make them obsolete. 

[Freejack02]

14 hours ago, pixieproxy said:

if you can sell off the skaven it's a real good deal.

I think that's gonna be a really tough ask - everyone is going to be parting out the Skaven half for pennies if previous boxes are any indication. The Sylvaneth half is so crazy superior to the rat half it's a little mind-boggling that they decided to move forward with the matchup. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Freejack02

[Lord Krungharr]

Aelves always get the better part of any deal.

[xking]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Aelves always get the better part of any deal.

Sylvaneth are not aelves, but I understand what you mean.

[Craze]

So, Wyldwoods an overgrown terrain will allow us to:

• Heal each Sylvaneth unit wholly within 9" by 1 wound
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" at the end of movement phase to another WW/vergrown terrain
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" immediately after it struck in combat to another WW/overgrown terrain.

I think the last one will be the biggest thing, as it will things the chance to hit in melee without the fear of retaliation and then teleport to e.g. grab a lone objective.

 

I really like this.

[Domize]

30 minutes ago, Craze said:

So, Wyldwoods an overgrown terrain will allow us to:

• Heal each Sylvaneth unit wholly within 9" by 1 wound
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" at the end of movement phase to another WW/vergrown terrain
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" immediately after it struck in combat to another WW/overgrown terrain.

I think the last one will be the biggest thing, as it will things the chance to hit in melee without the fear of retaliation and then teleport to e.g. grab a lone objective.

 

I really like this.

Think it's important to note that enemies have to be more than 3" away from our woods/overgrown terrain to use this now. Much easier to shut down - here's hoping there are some negative effects to enemies being near them, such as D3 MWs on a 4+ or so.

Edit: Too not sound too pessimistic, I am extremely excited about these changes too!

Edited May 26, 2022 by Domize

[Painbringer]

18 minutes ago, Craze said:

So, Wyldwoods an overgrown terrain will allow us to:

• Heal each Sylvaneth unit wholly within 9" by 1 wound
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" at the end of movement phase to another WW/vergrown terrain
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" immediately after it struck in combat to another WW/overgrown terrain.

I think the last one will be the biggest thing, as it will things the chance to hit in melee without the fear of retaliation and then teleport to e.g. grab a lone objective.

 

I really like this.

I also like this a lot - these are some fantastic changes, especially the last one!

[Mirage8112]

These new rules look legit amazing. 

[dikakos]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:16 PM, Domize said:

Definitely don't grab a second one, as you can only run one copy of the Lady of Vines. You'll be much better off getting a Start Collecting box to get the dryads that Lady of Vines summons, or the Drycha's Spitegrove box for some Tree Revenant battleline. You might want to grab another box of some Kurnoth Hunters too. However all of this is potentially gonna change once the Battletome drops – so could be worth just painting what you've got for now, then buying more once we have more information.

thanks for the answer. you think i should buy a start collecting sylvaneth? alarielle? a kurnoth hunters box? 

[Domize]

8 minutes ago, dikakos said:

thanks for the answer. you think i should buy a start collecting sylvaneth? alarielle? a kurnoth hunters box? 

Personally, if I were you I'd get a Start Collecting Sylvaneth box and then wait for the new book – assuming you want to paint them before playing. You'll have plenty to paint before the book comes out then. Then once the book comes out, decide what you need – although a box of Kurnoths or Alarielle probably won't hurt, it's hard to tell without knowing their final points cost.

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

So, Wyldwoods an overgrown terrain will allow us to:

• Heal each Sylvaneth unit wholly within 9" by 1 wound
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" at the end of movement phase to another WW/vergrown terrain
• Teleport 1 unit wholly within 9" immediately after it struck in combat to another WW/overgrown terrain.

I think the last one will be the biggest thing, as it will things the chance to hit in melee without the fear of retaliation and then teleport to e.g. grab a lone objective.

 

I really like this.

Love those rules, they really capture the "protect our woods" and "hit and run"  tactics that they talk about in our lore! It will be really hard to fight us in our territory thanks to the new Places of Power.

I do wonder if the Overgrowth will give the line of sight blocking it used to have in the last edition. If it does, I wonder if we will see some changes to the Wyldwoods to give them something more than the mortal wounds to nearby enemies.

[Jaskier]

If Overgrown can block Alarielle, she seems like the perfect candidate to try and abuse that teleport after fight rule - while she already has retreat and charge, her big weakness is high damage shooting/mortal wound output putting her down in the enemy turn before she can heal and reposition. If you can play around the wholly within ranges for scenery while charging stuff, and if overgrown terrain does block line of sight for her, this will make her extremely difficult to kill without compromising on her damage output on our turns, allowing you to fight without actually exposing her to a potentially deadly counter-punch. We'll see.

Strong rules though, and already making me feel Sylvaneth are getting a similar allegiance tune-up to Nighthaunt.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Jaskier

[Craze]

An interesting piece that I didn't grasp while reading it the first time is the mentioning of "Seasons of War". This sound like Wyldwoods and Overgrown Terrain will have "Tides of Death"-style bonuses, which I would a) LOVE from a fluff standpoint and b) hope for good rules and solid buffs.

[Lord Krungharr]

Did the tome come out yet?  Wondering if I'll still have viable use of a Treelord Ancient and Durthu within my Living City army.  Guess it will also depend on the new points costs too.  If the Ancient can still drop a Wyldwoods, and somehow cast another spell for another one, then I can have some tree mass-transit within the Living City.  

10 hours ago, xking said:

Sylvaneth are not aelves, but I understand what you mean.

Really?  Thought they were aelf spirits who inhabit the trees and make them walk or something.  Isn't Alarielle an aelvish queen?  Thought she had the old spear of that Orion Woodelf King from the Old World.

[Arzalyn]

5 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Did the tome come out yet?  Wondering if I'll still have viable use of a Treelord Ancient and Durthu within my Living City army.  Guess it will also depend on the new points costs too.  If the Ancient can still drop a Wyldwoods, and somehow cast another spell for another one, then I can have some tree mass-transit within the Living City.  

Not yet, but we got the first teaser of it. They generally do 2~3 of them and generally one per week. I would say its pretty safe to expect it to be released by the end of June if they follow this teaser-release pattern.

[EntMan]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

If the Ancient can still drop a Wyldwoods, and somehow cast another spell for another one, then I can have some tree mass-transit within the Living City.  

I think the only way to get more than one Woods in living city currently is with Alarielle getting lucky with Metamorphosis. 

[Jaskier]

It just occurred to me that as we now know overgrown terrain will functionally give us the same benefits wyldwoods do (at least as far as what they've shown off) and we get to pick three terrain pieces at the start of the game to be overgrown - and assuming we also get a wyldwood to start with - Sylvaneth armies will now start with up to four (five if you count the Lady of Vines; more on her below) wyldwoods/equivalents!

That's a pretty huge buff given we only ever started with one and the placement rules made it difficult to summon extra ones in good spots. I can only assume this means we'll be less reliant on the actual wyldwood models themselves; it seems the intent is to solve Sylvaneth players lugging around multiple sets of terrain compared to the one other armies use. Exciting times!

The only real "negative" - and I'd argue it's really more a balancing factor to make the army matchup more interactive for opponents, which I like - is the teleporting can be blocked if any enemy units are within 3" of the terrain you want to go to, but getting four to start with will still give us a lot more flexibility and especially so in the early game. Helpfully, Durthu's Spirit Paths rule (based on the leaked warscroll) doesn't have this restriction; he can teleport to a terrain feature that's got enemies within 3" of it as long as he's setup more than 9" away, so your opponent will have to be very careful to stop him coming at them.

The preview also gave us a better idea of just how useful the Lady of Vines' aura for stuff counting as being wholly within range of a Wyldwood will be. It will;

1) Let them heal a wound at the start of your hero phase.

2) Teleport - per the wording of it, you just need to be wholly within range of a friendly Wyldwood to teleport; the wording of the Lady's ability implies you wouldn't be able to teleport to her because she only counts as a wyldwood for units near her, but it looks to me like the Lady will absolutely let you teleport from her. It's the same wording for the new Spirit Paths on Durthu's warscroll.

3) Use the new ability to leave combat after striking. Like above, she will for sure qualify a unit to use the ability but I'm unclear if you can actually use it to teleport to her from another wyldwood.

All up that's pretty nice for her and honestly is already more than I was expecting. She's essentially a mobile teleporter (in multiple ways) and healer. Lastly, it's hard not to think of Alarielle given her unique monstrous rampage gives scenery the overgrown rules with no dice roll required. This will let us get overgrown terrain in enemy territory, particularly if you can use it on faction terrain (I'm unclear on this one) and can potentially seed the whole board without needing any Wyldwoods! 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Jaskier

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

3 hours ago, Jaskier said:

The only real "negative" - and I'd argue it's really more a balancing factor to make the army matchup more interactive for opponents, which I like - is the teleporting can be blocked if any enemy units are within 3" of the terrain you want to go to

Someone in the Rumor thread pointed out to me that, functionally, this kinda already exists, in that having an enemy unit within 3" of one of your Wyldwoods often means that you can't place a unit more than 9" away from it while still being within teleport distance of the wood.

So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree that the additional number of starting teleport destinations through overgrown terrain, combined with the teleport range now expanded from 6" to 9", is overall a net positive. Hopefully it also becomes easier to plop down more overgrown terrain and/or Wyldwoods as the game progresses.

And we haven't even seen the Seasons of War!