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Mirage8112

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Mirage8112 last won the day on May 10

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About Mirage8112

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  1. Hamerhall herald is usually used to indicate imminent pre-orders... so Saturday maybe?
  2. Yea your right. I’m so used to our support heroes being wizards.
  3. Agreed. I’m sure we’ll be overpowered as hell and everyone will hate us till the next book comes out.
  4. This is my exact thoughts. I do think the worm will function like a unit, while the tree (and whatever else we get) will work more like a judgement of Khorne or a traditional endless spell. Still too early to tell though
  5. I think it might be useful though to consider how these abilities play out over a whole game. This is along post, with a lot of math, so if you just want the TL:DR version, skip to the ############## for the summary Let’s say you’ve got a full contingent of 30 drayds in the trees fighting a horde of 40 skeletons, with all the trimmings. We’ll run the numbers 2 ways (one with Archie and one with a TLA).I’ll Show the math for the Archie, (since there’s a lot going on) using a ~ to show number rounded up to the nearest whole value. But without the Archie I’ll just give the total (I can show the math if you want). I also assuming you’ll use the Arch-revenants command ability every hero phase, which is 2 CP a turn. (At the top of turn 2 is when combat usually starts, you’ll have 4 CP, which means you can use one every phase until turn 5, where you’ll have none.) Firstly with an Archie in our turn 20 Drayds will be sporting 60 attacks: 60 Hitting on 2+ in their combat phase: 50 hits Hits of 4+ generate an extra attack means: 30 extra attacks Those extra attacks also hit on 2+: 25 hits 50 hits + 25 hits= 75 hits wounding on 4+: ~38 wounds Skeletons get a 5+ save against attacks with no rend, so 5+ save: ~25 wounds A 6+ Allegiance save: 21 wounds A second 6+ save from the standard bearer: 18 wounds (final) Second: or an Archie in your opponents turn: 20 Drayds will be sporting 60 attacks: 60 Hitting on 3+ in their combat phase: 40 hits Hits of 5+ generate an extra attack means: ~20 extra attacks Those extra attacks also hit on 3+: 13 hits 40 hits + 13 hits= 53 hits wounding on 4+: ~27 wounds Skeletons get a 5+ save against attacks with no rend, so 5+ save: ~18 woundsA 6+ Allegiance save: ~15 woundsA second 6+ save from the standard bearer: ~13 wounds (final) 18+ ~13= ~31 wounds total Without Archie Our turn: 15 wounds (final) Opponents turn: ~9 wounds (final) 15+~9= ~24 wounds total ~31 wounds - ~24 wounds = +7 wounds per turn from Archies command ability So yes. Over the course of a full turn, an Archie will net you an extra 3-4 wounds per combat phase for a total of 7 extra wounds from his combat ability, (assuming that there are always 10 dryads left to attack) However since you start with 2 CP and only generate 1 per turn (in your hero phase) you will run out of CP in the bottom of turn 5, which means over 5 games turns with combat starting from round 2, Arch will gain you ~24 extra wounds from his command ability. As to Archie vs the TLA, it’s important to remember that Ol’ Archie can only buff 1 unit. With the right positioning, the TLA can affect 2-3 units. As I said above, I was figuring a 1 group of drayds vs 1 group of skeletons. But if the TLA is buffing 3 groups of dryads over the whole field, lets calculate how many wounds it would save you. If in all the dryad units are 10 across, then in each combat skellies are 12 across, attacking in 2 ranks. Fully buffed, they have 5 attacks each and 1 unit will able to fight twice in their combat phase (thanks to Vanhels Danse Macabre) With Archie 12 Skeletons = 120 attacks hits on 4+: 60 Wounds on 4+: 30 Dryads save on a 3+: ~10 wounds 10 wounds per unit, with 3 units: 30 wounds 1 unit attacking twice (Vanhels buff): +10 wounds 30+10= 40 wounds 40 wounds in his combat phase + 30 in the next (no Vanhels buff, so no unit can attack twice) Total of 70 wounds taken in 1 full turn (2 rounds of combat) With TLA: Here’s where it gets a little tricky TLA gets a stomp attack, but it only goes off on a 4+. It’s also likely that it wont go off in the unit that is attacking twice. So what I’ll do is I’ll penalize the skeleton’s to hit in one unit, for 1 round, but figure RRing saves of 1 for all the dryads: 12 skeletons: 120 attacks Hitting on 5+ (Stomp penalty): 40 Wounds on a 4+: 20 Drayds save on a 3+: ~7 RR saves of 1: 6 wounds All other combats: 12 skeletons: 120 attacksHitting on 4+: 60 Wounds on a 4+: 30Drayds save on a 3+: ~10RR saves of 1: 9 wounds Stomp activation: 6 wounds 2 regular activations: 18 wounds Extra attack activation for Vanhels dance unit: +9 wounds 6+28+9= 33 wounds in the first round of combat 3 skeleton units attack in the second round of combat (no Vanhels buff or Stomp penalty, but still rr 1’s) 9 wounds x 3 units = 27 wounds Total of 60 wounds taken in 1 full turn (two rounds of combat) Which means through RR 1’s spread over 3 units, plus stomp going off on 1 unit 50% of the time, the TLA saves you from taking 10 wounds over the course of a turn. 4 turns over the course of game means he’ll save you a net total of 40 wounds total. ################################# So, in this case, it’s really more a question of what’s more valuable over the course of a game, the Archie-fi’ed unit will net you ~24 extra wounds over 4 full game turns, while a TLA will save you ~40 wounds over the same number of turns. This tells me that at least under these math-hammer circumstances, Archie is more valuable early game: everybody will be at full health mostly, and your units of dryads will have extra bodies to absorb those extra wounds the TLA would have saved. The TLA is much better late game since as the dryad lose bodies, their save gets worse and they start to lose more bodies to the same number of attacks. For example, lets assume we picked a TLA and there’s the same 3 groups of 30 dryads fighting the same 3 groups of 40 skellies above. Once a unit of drayds drops below 12, they lose their extra +1 save from having 12 models in a unit, the Skellies go from doing 10 damage a round to 15 damage*. If the TLA’s command ability prevents this from happening for 1 round of combat per game (i.e. a dryad unit can stay above 12 models thanks to stomp or RR’ing saves of 1 for the first round of turn 3) that means the TLA is actually saving you an extra 5 models worth of damage that turn*. Which means, over the course of a game, the TLA is saving you 40 wounds + another 15 if he can keep each Dryad unit numbers above 12 for 1 round of combat (each game turn being 2 rounds of combat), meaning he’s saving you 55 wounds over the course of a game spread over 3 units. Consider also that all those dryads that the TLA is saving will probably get to continue attacking in turns 4 or 5, (since they wont be dead). we can calculate this as “passive damage” since the TLA is technically responsible for the dryads still being around to fight: 55 wounds worth of Dryads= 110 attacks Say the Hurricanium is no longer in range since the unit is depleted, and it’s the opponents turn so 4+ to hit: 55 hits Extra attacks on a 6+: 18 73 attacks wounding on 4+: 36 wounds Skellies save on a 5+: 25 wounds Skellies 6+ save: ~20 wounds SO. Just by using the TLA’s command ability, your dryads last a little longer which means you get another 20 wounds for every combat phase those drayds stick around**, even if it’s only 1 extra turn (2 rounds of combat) that’s 40 extra damage spread out over 3 units in 1 turn vs the Archies 24 damage all game. The passive damage plus the extra bodies says (to me) the TLA is the better pick here. *I’m fudging the numbers a wee bit here by assuming that the skellie units are above 30, while the dryads are around 10, and that all 6 units are still in combat. This probably wouldn’t be the case in reality, but there’s very little way to tell what the numbers would be like in turn 4-5, so I’m just using this as an example.
  6. I like the addition of the hurricanium with great bows. It seems to me that if your going to take bows, you need the hurricanium for the +hit. I think having a decent artillery base synergies well with that many drayds (since they are notoriously difficult to shift). I’d also agree that the goblet of draining is a better pick than the gryph feather charm, because your bows will discourage anybody from getting too close, and you have your 10 x drayd units to screen for CC. I know it seems odd to say (because I agree the Archie will be a staple of Sylvaneth lists from now on), but I’m not sure you need him in this list. Extra attacks on drayds are so-so, since they are 4+/4+ no rend (+1 on your turn vs one enemy unit). On a unit of 30, you probably won’t have all of them in range if you’re fighting in a WW (you should be fighting in a WW) so if they’re fighting in 2 ranks you’ll likely only be getting 12-18 extra attacks from the CP, that only translates to an extra 3-4 wounds with no rend. For every point of armor, that drops about a wound off that total. If you drop that Archie, you can take a TLA in your second list. I think he’ll synergize better, since envoys of the everyqueen will let you RR a bunch of saves on your drayds if you position them right. I don’t think this is the right list for Alarielle, since bow hunters will be out of combat (hopefully) and wont need Alarielle’s healing, and drayds are only 1 wound apeice. TLA gives you stomp, an extra spell that can rouse the wood twice (the effect of the spell, and then on a 5+ the wood attacks as well). That still leaves you 40 points if you want to take an endless spell. Souls are shackles might be fun, since the longer it takes the enemy to close the gap, the more chances you have to shoot.
  7. Technically you’re right. Here’s how the math breaks down: 3 Sword Hunters raw damage output (MW accounted for): ~14 wounds Vs a 5+ save: ~12 wounds Vs a 4+ save: ~10 wounds Vs a 3+ save: ~ 8 wounds Vs a 2+ save: ~6 wounds 3 Scythe Hunters raw damage output: ~9 wounds Vs a 5+ save: ~9 wounds Vs a 4+ save: ~ 7 wounds Vs a 3+ save: ~ 6 wounds All things being equal, sword hunters are superior in combat at equal numbers. But, like I said above, scythe hunters are valuable because they can be run in groups of 6 allowing every hunter in the unit to get attacks in. So lets assume all 6 scythes can get in combat, and only 4 of the sword hunters can (which is being generous). 4 Sword Hunters raw damage output (MW accounted for): ~18 wounds Vs a 5+ save: ~15 wounds Vs a 4+ save: ~13 wounds Vs a 3+ save: ~ 10 woundsVs a 2+ save: ~8 wounds6 Scythe Hunters raw damage output: ~17 woundsVs a 5+ save: ~17 woundsVs a 4+ save: ~ 14 woundsVs a 3+ save: ~ 11 wounds As you can see the damage output is pretty similar (scythes edge out swords by ~2 wounds) if we’re being generous and saying 4 of six swords can get into combat. I’ve run hunters both ways in several games (before the sword buff) and I can tell you from experience that when fighting in tight spaces it’s a very real possibility that you can only get 2 swords in combat (fighting around WW trees is a ******). The much more likely scenario is that you’ll only be able to get 3 swords in. Swords Hunters 3 across can’t attack in a second rank, while scythes can. in that case here’s the damage comparison: 3 Sword Hunters raw damage output (MW accounted for): ~14 wounds Vs a 5+ save: ~12 wounds Vs a 4+ save: ~10 wounds Vs a 3+ save: ~ 8 woundsVs a 2+ save: ~6 wounds 6 Scythe Hunters raw damage output: ~17 woundsVs a 5+ save: ~17 woundsVs a 4+ save: ~ 14 woundsVs a 3+ save: ~ 11 wounds Even at a 5+ save, scythes blow sword hunters out because they can all attack. “But Mirage!” (I hear you say), “What if i fight out in open and manage to get all my sword hunters in combat?” To that I say, “why the hell would you fight out in open?” You should never, ever, ever, fight out in open unless you absolutely 100% honest-to-god have to. Half of this army’s finesse is knowing how to use map choke points and WW placement to prevent your units from getting swarmed. You can easily handle a group of 30 wytch elves provided you can limit the amount of space they can fight in; a unit of 30 isn’t nearly as scary if only 5-7 can attack. Opening your frontage so you can maximize your group of 6 sword hunters attacks might give you a 1 round advantage, but doing extends your front line from being 4.5 inches wide with scythes, to being 9 inches wide. A front line that long usually means you’ll be eating multiple charges next turn. A double charge from 2 units of 30 Wytch elves, sporting 4 attacks apiece means 2 units throwing out 120 attacks per unit, (possibly with RR’s depending on buffs/turn) at 3+/4+ rend -1. Since your swords aren't in cover anymore (you moved out to maximize your attacks remember?) You’re now RR’ing on only a 5+, vs 40 wounds after hit/wound (per unit of 30), which means even if you clear 1 unit of 30, you’ll lose about 1/2 your squad in the next turn from the other unit of 30. Not to mention that you no longer benefit from LoS blocking WW and can now get shot/magicked/ect ect as well as being mobbed by a bunch of blood-crazed (pretty) murder-elves. Alpha strike is another creature entirely, because your goal is to take out key support units/heroes/elite combat troops before they can do anything about it. The last thing you want to do in that case is maximize your frontage, because you’re likely to pull units into combat that you don’t want to fight. Dreadwood alpha-strike needs to be very focused so that you only fight the thing you want to kill, and ideally kill it before it can hit you back. It doesn’t do you any good if you can’t get all your swords into combat, or if you get too ambitious and take the units on the right and left of it by piling in with 3” of them unintentionally. So you ambush, form your scythes into a 3x3 bullet, and hit the thing that needs to die and only the thing that needs to die. Ideally you’ll have picked a target that’s not too close to anything that can hit you back. Sometimes it is a viable strategy to “tag” an adjacent unit by piling in 1 hunter within 3”, specifically so it ties the enemy down preventing it from moving and then charging you next turn. Moving a single hunter just within 3” means every model in the tagged must pile in toward that model. They cannot move and then charge to maximize their attacks which means you eat maybe 2-3 wounds instead of taking none and getting swarmed in their next turn. But even if you use this tactic, you don’t want to attack the unit you tagged, because if your opponent removed casualties from the front, he’s no longer in combat and can move and swarm you next turn. Scythes don’t have to worry about this, because with 2” reach the unit will expend all it’s attacks on the alpha strike target. That sword hunter however has to attack the tagged unit, per the core rules, a unit that is in combat must attack if it is able to; it can’t reach the alpha target (1” reach, blocked by his squad) means he has to attack the other unit, which means it’s almost pointless to use this tactic and you’ll get swarmed next turn no matter what you do. TL:DR Dont get me wrong, swords are a lot better than they used to be (even though I occasionally played them the old way) but they are best in 3’s. Scythes are best in a unit of 6-9.
  8. Scythes, unless your absolutely certain you'll be able to get all 6 within 1" when it's time to attack
  9. Yep. That’s true. I clearly misread that (shows how familiar I am with the battalion.). At first I thought that was a dealbreaker, but the more I look at it. The less I think it maters, provide you make a few changes. If you dropped the T-revs down to 5 apiece instead of 10, that would give you an extra 160 points to play with. In that case you could take 3 units of T-revs instead of 2, and I’d probably also take a support caster. Likely a branchwraith with acorn for some back-up woods and regrowth to help top up your hunters letting them weather shooting a bit longer, and the ability to get some spells to possibly awaken the WW and the potential to bring dryads on the board in the early phases of the game. That makes the list look like this: Allegiance: SylvanethMortal Realm: GhyranSpirit of Durthu (380)- General- Trait: Gift of Ghyran - Artefact: Ghyrstrike Branchwraith (80)- Artefact: acorn -Deepwood spell: Regrowth5 x Tree-Revenants (80)5 x Tree-Revenants (80) 5 x Tree-Revenants (80)30 x Dryads (270)3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Scythes3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Swords3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Swords3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- SwordsFree Spirits (120)Heartwood Wargrove (80)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 122 The strategy would probably be the same. Since you’ll not be charging (at all) you’ll only need to weather 4 rounds of combat (instead of 8 with your mobile hunters). If you can’t break a unit entirely after they wipe your screen, you use your free move to move back, your actual move to move back again, and then put another screen in between since you’ve just moved 10”(you possibly run for a bit extra) and you only need 9” to bring your revenants in. You have 3 units of Hunters you need to screen, and (believe it or not) each unit 5 t-revs can give you a screen 15 inches wide. (5 x 1” bases +1” coherency between 5 models + 3” no move zone on each side x 2 sides 5+4+6 = 15”). 3 hunters in a unit means each hunter unit is roughly 4.5 inches across (1.5 inch bases x 3 = 4.5 inches) so if they are 2 inches back, slightly staggered you should be able to fit them all in behind a single screen. It’s a shame it isn’t for “each hunter” as I thought, but the more I look at it, the less I think that matters. You won’t put your mobile hunter unit in combat till turn 2, and hopefully you’ll only lose 1 screen per turn. On a roll of 5+, you have a 1 in 3 or 30% chance to bring 1 lost screen back per turn, and you really only need the screens for turns 2-4. (If you lose all the hunters turn 5 who cares? At that point it’s VP and not losses that will matter). With a wraith (hopefully) summoning dryads to bolster your bunker they should last all game unless you opponent dedicates a lot to taking it out. All of this will depend on your battleplan of course. T-revs are fast, and can hopefully get onto an objective before your opponent, Hunters are pretty fast as well thanks to the free spirits battalion, and since they wont be charging, they can still run. Dryads + durthu in the murder forest will be hard to shift without spilling a lot of blood, and if worse comes to worse, depending on the battleplan, you can put your free forest down on a midfield objective, single drop, take first turn, drop a second forest midfield with acorn, teleport everything into the forest spread over 2 objectives, screen your hunter with 2 T-revs (in case of a double turn), and dare your opponent to do anything about it. He wont really be able to shoot them (unless he can fly, and even then the best he can do is likely wipe out a screen, and charging into the forest works to your advantage. Then push up the screened hunters when you have an opening. I know it sounds bonkers to try something like this, but its not that dissimilar to how I play my dreadwood list. I lose a lot of models when I play, but with T-revs able to hold objectives and be anywhere else if needed at a moments notice, it might be distracting enough that your opponent focuses on taking the hunters or your bunker out (since he needs the objectives they’re holding) and spends too much time doing it since he wont be able to get past the screens (and when they die, you can just replace it with another and have a 30% to bring it back for use later. Generally all you need to do is hold more objectives than him for 3 turns, hold as many as him for 1, and whatever happens turn 5 doesn’t really mater.
  10. @TheGrayKing @Thalassic Monstrosity That’s a good question. Heartwood is one of the battalions that sort of got glossed over when our Battletome came out since you were required to hold points in reserve for summon units to the field. I don’t think anybody here has played it. That being said, if I had to sit down and write a list for this, it would probably look something like this: Allegiance: SylvanethMortal Realm: GhyranSpirit of Durthu (380)- General- Trait: Gift of Ghyran - Artefact: Ghyrstrike 10 x Tree-Revenants (160)10 x Tree-Revenants (160)30 x Dryads (270)3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Scythes3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Swords3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- Swords3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- SwordsFree Spirits (120)Heartwood Wargrove (80)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 122 You don’t have a lot of flexibility in list building here, since you have to take 4 units of hunters and a Durthu and still make battleline. Since you can only bring back Revenants or Dryads, the first couple of turn you’re probably using your 2+ roll (+4 to dice roll for each unit of hunters on the field) to bring back revenants, so I’ve bumped up both units to 10, since bringing back 5 revenants is probably a waste of time and 10 stand a better chance to do some damage in combat anyway. You’ll only have 1 forest on the board since you can’t really fit any support casters in and still come in under 2k. So your dryads will probably be stuck in the forest all game (preferably on an objective), with a unit of 1 hunters with scythes + durthu waiting to attack anybody that attempts to charge (i put a healing item on him since he suffers so badly from losing more than 1 wound). It will probably take your enemy 2-3 turns to kill all the dryads off before you need to spend your roll to bring them back. And durthu + 1 unit of hunters can attack back over them relatively safely and mostly wont need to worry about shooting unless the enemy can fly. Since you don’t have a second forest, you’ll need to use your remaining 3 hunters in a moving formation, screened by 1 of your 2 units T-revs, (since t-revs can easily catch up thanks to waypipes they are ideal for keeping up with the hunters), letting you make up for your lack of WW by moving them in your hero phase. You last group of T-revs can run interference or generally hold objective and generally be annoying. It’s ideal to lose 1 unit of rev a turn, because you can just bring them back on a 2+. Because your hunters need to be alive to get the bonus to bringing units back you have to protect them at all costs. The weird thing about this army is that I think you never would want to charge. Your dryad bunker needs to stay in the forest for bonuses, and your second hunter formation will basically move up and get in the enemy’s face, but not charge. You need to get charged so your hunters can root and reroll failed saves. Also, if you charge your hunters need to come within 1/2” which means you either clear the unit completely (in a lot of cases, that’s unlikely, triple unlikely because your hunters are split in 3 groups and can’t all attack at once), or you risk eating attacks back, and as I said above, you can’t afford to lose a single unit of hunters. If you fail a roll, you’ll have a spare unit of revenants hanging around (hopefully holding objectives you’ve managed to push him off of). So, here’s how I see it working. You’ll be one drop, so you give them first turn ideally. They use their first turn to get in position. In your first turn, you get your Dryads + durthu to get bunkered and stay put. On the other side of the map, you use 3 hunters surrounded by T-revs to move up within 3” (somebody like DoK will probably have moved up aggressively, and since you’ll not be charging you can move in your hero phase, and then move + run in your phase for an average movement of 13”) and pretend to threaten a unit. The other guy thinks your crazy, and charges top of turn 2, wipes out T-revs to a man. Then 3 units of hunters with swords all hit back and wipe out whatever attacked you. Then it’s your turn. Use your 2+ roll (pray you don’t fail), and bring your t-revs back. If you managed to wipe out whatever hit you, you teleport the other 10 T-revs 9” away from the next closest unit, move the 3 units of Hunters up and dare him to charge you again. Waypipe your newly resurrected T-revs where the old ones were and rinse repeat. If (by some miracle) your t-rev screen survives you need to sacrifice it and move your fresh screen up to take it’s place. Since you have 2 screens you have a little maneuverability but honestly, not much room for error here. You’ll almost never want a double turn, mostly because you don’t want the enemy to be able to wipe out your screen, and then charge your unguarded hunters before you can bring your screen back. if your enemy figures this out and makes you take a double turn, you’ll need to bring your spare T-revs in and “double wrap” your 3 hunters attack squad. Will it work? Hell I dunno. Looks good on paper tho! It’s weakness will likely be magic, shooting and anything with a 3” reach that can ignore your hunters and attack over your screens. You’ll have the woods to give durthu some cover (and he has a wee bit of shooting + stomp + heal to give your bunker an edge). The good news that is your hunters are pretty resilient, and can take a few hits before their damage output really suffers. Each unit of 3 swords will do an average of 18 wounds apiece (so 3*18= 44 wounds per combat phase) and each can take 15 wounds before expiring. I would probably think that your enemy will start focusing them down with magic/shooting after the first turn, so as you get down to 1 hunter, move him backward while the other 2 press forward, so you can preserve your bonus to the resurrection roll. Like I said, I don’t know how viable it will be, but by continuously resurrecting your screens, your damage dealers should be able to chew through his units without much fear of reprisal. The only way to know for sure is to play it a bunch of times and see if it works as well in practice as it does on paper.
  11. Good call. I’m unfamiliar with that unit and I guess it shows 😂. RR ones is still not a bad add boosting their damage by almost 1. Sorry I meant boosts their chance to do damage by 8% since the jump from 4+ to 3+ is a 16% advantage on 1 stat. (With the RR 1’s it brings that chance down to a little over 5%) Overall, that about a 25% to damage done, but that’s a little misleading since it’s still just over 1 wound.
  12. Lol. It’s not unpleasant for me actually, providing the discussion doesn’t go around in circles and that we don’t start misrepresenting each other’s position to make ourselves look better. These type of discussions are usually pretty informative: tabletop wargaming is typically a very complicated affair. Not only are lots of rules to remember, but there are TONS of choices to make over the course of game. Those choices start the minute you pick up an army book and try to decide what units to take. The other issue is that while some of those choices are super obvious, (No, you probably dont want to get charged by the huge unit of stormcast retributors coming at you full-tilt) but others are not so obvious (you’re definitely going to get charged by something this turn, how do you make the charge you can’t avoid less devastating for you? Or, even better, how do you make your opponent regret charging you?). The other issue is we as humans are creatures of habit, which means if something works for you, you typically try to do that thing over and over and over. The problem with that is often we tend to do the same things even after they stop being as effective (because they are predictable, or your opponent learns how to counter them) because they’ve become habit, sometimes so much so we aren’t even aware that we’re doing them. This is why I feel it’s super important to know what every single unit in a Battletome does, what it’s good at, what it’s not good at and what role they fill on the battlefield. This begins with knowing your own army top-to-bottom front-to-back, and eventually ends with you learning what every unit in every other Battletome does. For example, my major loss at Adepticon was to a Legions of Nagash player who formerly played Sylvaneth; specifically the battalion I was playing: Dreadwood. Legions of Nagash had been released about a month before the tournament and I had absolutely 0 experience against playing against the army. He knew everything my army was capable of and I had no idea what to expect. I made a few key mistakes early on by trying to fight units I had no business fighting instead of using my spites as chaff to slow his advance. He wiped 17 drayds out of a unit of 30 with a bunch of skeletons. I was forced to retreat, regroup and spent the whole game on the back foot, trying to work out a strategy on the fly, against an unknown opponent, who had total knowledge of what my army could do. Ultimately, I fought him to a standstill and nearly managed a minor loss. But, thanks to a custom scenario for the tournament he managed to steal the last objective from me due to unit size (F*@%$&ing skeletons just don’t stay dead). He was able to outplay me because he knew his army and mine, and I only knew mine. The one thing I don’t want to do is dominate the debate ( I work from home, so I have time on my hands which means I usually respond more frequently than other members). So please feel free to jump in with points or questions or your own experience. The more minds on the problem means better solutions. The number of games you’ve played doesn’t matter, any observations are valuable .
  13. Lol. I like you. You’re tenacious and a wee bit salty. I’ve looked through your posts over last couple of months and you show a clear disdain for things you don’t like and dismiss anybody who thinks otherwise. I know you’re not a native English speaker (don’t get me wrong, your English is great. But I noticed you mentioned so in a previous thread) so maybe you misunderstood my intentions. I wasn’t using conditional statements like may/might/if because I was trying to make you something out to be you aren't. I was using them because the tone of your post has a lot in way of opinions and not in the way of explanation. I’m trying to figure out why we see these units differently, because I see them having a lot of usefulness. I win a lot, and they are usually a big part of why. You complain about how easily T-revs die. As I said above “If you don’t understand why that’s useful thats 75% of your problem”. So, since you asked nicely, I’ll not make assumptions and ask you a direct question: do you know why that’s a good thing? or not? No. I did not say that. Nor I gave reasons to draw such a conclusion. You didn’t give me a reason to draw that conclusion? Those two quotes do nothing to mention the ability to redirect a charge, board control, misdirection, pressure at range or anything else you can do that doesn’t involve the combat phase. All you talk about are how “things die to too fast” or “don’t do enough damage”. That to me says the only thing you pay attention to is the combat phase and units damage output. I don’t think thats an unreasonable assumption to make given I know nothing about you and all you talk about is how something performs in combat. I get that you have an opinion on that based on your experience, but as I said above I have a different experience using them. I’m not saying that they don’t suck in your games, I’m saying they rock in mine. What’s the difference? It’s not that we’re using different profiles, so we must be using them differently or have different expectations of how they should perform. But you know what? I wont make assumptions that you don’t know how to use them (since that seems to bother you so much). I’ll just ask you: how are you using them? How many are you taking in a unit? How many units are you taking? Do you deploy them immediately or keep them off the board? What’s your WW placement like? How many WW’s are you taking? What’s your army list composition like? Are you taking battalions? Are you single dropping? Do you try for first turn or nor? Here’s your chance not to look like a “big beefcake guy” and give a more complete picture of your playstyle and tactics. After all, that’s what this thread is for: discussion and tactics. If you just want to complain I’m fairly sure you can find a reddit thread where you can vent to your heart’s content and not have anybody bothering you by trying to help. Changing the Hunters with bows hit to 3+ boosts their dmg output by 8%. On average that’s 5.8 damage vs 4.4. So right now they’re garbage because they do 1.4 less wound than you would like? Cmon man don't you think you’re exaggerating a bit? When Kurnoth hunters came out they were 180 points and had exactly the same statline they have now. They positively dominated the game and were one of the reasons shooting armies ruled the game in the first iterations of AoS. Players absolutely hated them and they got hit hard by a points increase to 220 in the second GHB. GW toned shooting down quite a bit in the game by giving characters some protection and removed the easy access to +hit and consequently dropped hunters to 200. GW is pretty clear they do not want shooting to dominate the game which is why Bow Hunters are stat’ed the way they are. Our army is very difficult to kill if played correctly and as such is very good at holding troops in place for multiple turns which shooting units pick them apart. Making hunters baseline damage too much higher is a return to old AoS and it’s pretty clear GW (and the players) don’t want that to happen, since they want melee-only armies (like blades of Khorne) to be viable on the tabletop. This is also why they adjusted armies like Discples of TZ to be slightly less dominate in the magic phase through magical shooting, since thier armies mortal wound output was nearly impossible to for most armies to handle. If you’r really dedicated to improving KH damage output at range you can add +1 attack to them via an arch revenant and boost their damage significantly between a command ability and RR1’s to 7.6 damage per turn. To make use of that you’ll have to pay a 100pt premium since shooting units have a higher tactical value in the game. There you go. Problem solved And T-revs to 2 damage apiece? 3 damage on a Scion for 80 points? Your kidding right? You’re talking about doubling their damage output and putting them on par with a unit of Kurnoth hunters who cost 120 points more. That’s crazy “I want my army to steamroll everything because winning is only fun if you crush your opponent under the heels of your boots” talk. We already have a unit that does Kurnoth-hunter level damage: they’re called “Kurnoth hunters”. You can take 3 for 200 points. You should try them. I hear they even have a bow variant....
  14. It’s legal. You can do it if you want to. FAQ says all terrain is climbable. I’m not sure it would give you any particular advantage since they cant really reach anything up there, and you have to maintain coherency with all the models in a unit.
  15. I’d be surprised if they did that. Hunters are just so good as an elite unit people are already packing as many as they can into a list. With the FEC nobody was running more than 1 terrorgeist. Soon as they were battleline everybody was like “ooo these are actually good”. I really liked Gnarlroot but stopped playing it often Disc of Tz came out. Legions of Nagash only confirmed that we are not top dog when it comes to magic anymore. Magic is still usefull, but we cant count on being able to throw out heals when ever we want anymore. At least not without some serious foresight. Dreadwood is still super fun to play because of the stratagems. Providing you roll at least 2 it really gives you some serious flexibility. It also limits unbind to 12” in the first turn of the game which can be very frustrating if your opponent isn’t expecting it, usually allowing you to get an ample set-up and prevent yourself from getting overwhelmed in the first turn. Or you can just alpha-strike the hell out of everything which is also hilarious. On the old warscrolls 3 swords and 3 scythes were close enough on 4+ to be statistically equal (within .4 of a wound i think?) With the new update swords edge out scythes on 4+ by 2 wounds or so. However, thats assuming 3 swords vs 3 scythes. You neIver want to take swords in more than 3’s because its too easy to get handicapped by reach, scythes are easy to take in 6’s thanks to that extra inch. That’s why say scythes are better than swords vs 4+ because the entire unit will attack before the other unit can swing back. Over the course of the game scythes will out perform swords in 6’s vs 4+ and better.
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