AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Urauloth]

Yes, "Rage of Khorne" is just the name of the portal's ability. All you need to benefit from its effects is to be within 18", be friendly, and have the Khorne keyword. Brass Despoilers are fine.

[decker_cky]

10 hours ago, SirPug said:

Do you guys think enlightened with disks might get point increase in the future?  

They are 20 points cheaper than bullgores have 1 less wound but are way faster and can fly and also deal way more damage expecially if you charge them in behind ungors so that too many foes can not pile in.

I watched Doom and darkness battle report on youtube and they seemed absolutely busted.

I think enlightened on discs very likely boost up to 160 pts next GHB. Skyfires could drop without causing issues. Tzaangor hordes would make sense to drop in points too. 

[Murder Pancake]

Has anyone picked up a Herdstone yet? I'm curious about how wide the base is as I would prefer to make my own flux cairn. 

[decker_cky]

14 minutes ago, Murder Pancake said:

Has anyone picked up a Herdstone yet? I'm curious about how wide the base is as I would prefer to make my own flux cairn. 

 

[Murder Pancake]

Excellent; thank you. 

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Yeah Rage of Khorne is just the name of the ability. The Banner affects all models with the Khorne keyword.

[Agent of Chaos]

@SirPug I'm loving the Doom & Darkness battle reports! That tactic with the Enlightened behind the wall of Ungor is brilliant! They do seem a little cheap for 140 points although they only hit on 4+ and have a 5+ save. Without the rerolls I'm sure they would be less effective. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

27 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@SirPug I'm loving the Doom & Darkness battle reports! That tactic with the Enlightened behind the wall of Ungor is brilliant! They do seem a little cheap for 140 points although they only hit on 4+ and have a 5+ save. Without the rerolls I'm sure they would be less effective. 

Yeah they're ridiculous with the rerolls.  They're still good without the reroll, but the reroll just makes them into an absolute blender.

 

[Satyrical Sophist]

1 hour ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Yeah they're ridiculous with the rerolls.  They're still good without the reroll, but the reroll just makes them into an absolute blender.

 

With the rerolls they absolutely murder. In my two most recent games three of them have one phased a black coach and almost killed a star drake. Then just the Aviarch has killed a lord of shrouds and lord arcanum on Gryf in one phase.

[Amradiel]

The more I read through the book, the more I'm thinking that I want to leave Gavespawn behind and go the Tzaangor route. But is it all or nothing with Tzaangor builds?

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Amradiel said:

The more I read through the book, the more I'm thinking that I want to leave Gavespawn behind and go the Tzaangor route. But is it all or nothing with Tzaangor builds?

I dont see why you would have to drop the Gavespawn for that ? I mean they are Brayherd so you dont need to run Darkwalkers (and Allherd is just ....yeah we do not speak of Allherd  )

I mean Tzaangors and Enlightened both can benefit massively since they have 2 different weapon types, so that +1 does add on a lot.

But I if you run the disc version, then yeah, I suppose it makes sense, since they would outrun the Spawns in one turn.

...Its kinda weird that our monster things cant benefit from Darkwalkers. I mean Spawn and Razorgors.... if they could ambush, things might get even more interesting.

 

**I havent read the batt. rep yet guys. What gave  re-rolls are we talking about, and what gave it to them ?

(I dont have the time to read the whole thing, so I am asking out of curiosity,  in case we have access to more re-rolls other than just the Brass Despoilers. But since these are TZAANgors they can be taken in BD battalion.)

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 minute ago, Myrdin said:

I dont see why you would have to drop the Gavespawn for that ? I mean they are Brayherd so you dont need to run Darkwalkers (and Allherd is just ....yeah we do not speak of Allherd  )

I mean Tzaangors and Enlightened both can benefit massively since they have 2 different weapon types, so that +1 does add on a lot.

But I if you run the disc version, then yeah, I suppose it makes sense, since they would outrun the Spawns in one turn.

...Its kinda weird that our monster things cant benefit from Darkwalkers. I mean Spawn and Razorgors.... if they could ambush, things might get even more interesting.

 

**I havent read the batt. rep yet guys. What gave  re-rolls are we talking about, and what gave it to them ?

(I dont have the time to read the whole thing, so I am asking out of curiosity,  in case we have access to more re-rolls other than just the Brass Despoilers. But since these are TZAANgors they can be taken in BD battalion.)

 

I actually like Allherd, especially in low points games. With a Battalion and Aetherquartz brooch I've managed to summon a turn 2 Chimera in all 4 games I've played with them so far.

[Amradiel]

20 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

I dont see why you would have to drop the Gavespawn for that ? I mean they are Brayherd so you dont need to run Darkwalkers (and Allherd is just ....yeah we do not speak of Allherd  )

I mean Tzaangors and Enlightened both can benefit massively since they have 2 different weapon types, so that +1 does add on a lot.

But I if you run the disc version, then yeah, I suppose it makes sense, since they would outrun the Spawns in one turn.

...Its kinda weird that our monster things cant benefit from Darkwalkers. I mean Spawn and Razorgors.... if they could ambush, things might get even more interesting.

 

**I havent read the batt. rep yet guys. What gave  re-rolls are we talking about, and what gave it to them ?

(I dont have the time to read the whole thing, so I am asking out of curiosity,  in case we have access to more re-rolls other than just the Brass Despoilers. But since these are TZAANgors they can be taken in BD battalion.)

Well that's true Bad choice of words from my part. My Gavespawn list was Bestigor, Gor and Ungor heavy. Not Tzeentch as I'm leaning towards now.

[Myrdin]

So out of curiosity...

Has anyone thought of using the old "Beastmen" Wargor Standard Bearer", with our new shiny "Beast of Chaos" book ? (still salty they skipped bunch of our old units and heroes. I hope BoC do well and we get to see an update adding Gorthor on his chariot, Malagor, Khazzrak and bunch other characters...slim chance I know, but a goatman can dream)

In all technicallity they are still listed on the Warscroll builder on the official GW page, and as such I would say he can still be taken as an ALLY.

Plus since his ability is "Brayherds" not "Beastmen", it should still Apply.

Honestly if we CAN take him, then that changes a lot of the weaker units like Gors / Ungors, and turns them into cheap yet unexpectedly killy units. 

If those Gors were part of the Brass Despoilers, with the two Khorne buffers, AND Gawespawn greatfray with a spawn at that.... Yep those would be some Gors who are actually useful for once   (granted it takes a lot to get them to that point so... but if you are running Brass Desp. anyway, its a Win/Win scenario.)

But on a serious note - if we can still play the Wargor BSB as an Ally with our BoC units, that would make our Brayherd elites very deadly. While I prefer Ambushing MSU bestigors so this would not really affect them as much, I think this guy would be a MASSIVE Boon to the infantry Tzaangors. Yes they are expensive, but this guy doing  the same thing for them as the Tzaan Shaman saves you 100 pts so that balances it out a bit. Now this sounds like a very worthwhile thing to explore !

What do you guys think ?

[Frozenbeast]

16 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

So out of curiosity...

Has anyone thought of using the old "Beastmen" Wargor Standard Bearer", with our new shiny "Beast of Chaos" book ? (still salty they skipped bunch of our old units and heroes. I hope BoC do well and we get to see an update adding Gorthor on his chariot, Malagor, Khazzrak and bunch other characters...slim chance I know, but a goatman can dream)

In all technicallity they are still listed on the Warscroll builder on the official GW page, and as such I would say he can still be taken as an ALLY.

Plus since his ability is "Brayherds" not "Beastmen", it should still Apply.

Honestly if we CAN take him, then that changes a lot of the weaker units like Gors / Ungors, and turns them into cheap yet unexpectedly killy units. 

If those Gors were part of the Brass Despoilers, with the two Khorne buffers, AND Gawespawn greatfray with a spawn at that.... Yep those would be some Gors who are actually useful for once   (granted it takes a lot to get them to that point so... but if you are running Brass Desp. anyway, its a Win/Win scenario.)

But on a serious note - if we can still play the Wargor BSB as an Ally with our BoC units, that would make our Brayherd elites very deadly. While I prefer Ambushing MSU bestigors so this would not really affect them as much, I think this guy would be a MASSIVE Boon to the infantry Tzaangors. Yes they are expensive, but this guy doing  the same thing for them as the Tzaan Shaman saves you 100 pts so that balances it out a bit. Now this sounds like a very worthwhile thing to explore !

What do you guys think ?

 

Only Ally BoC has is StD unfortunately, and anyway looking at the app you cannot even find the Wargor BSB so even if you were playing Chaos GA you could not play it unless you play it with older Warscrolls and your opponent is ok with it. So all in all is good thinking....but is not applicable anymore.?

 

[Myrdin]

Are you sure about that ?

I mean I can see him under the Beastmen tab. https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

The Warscroll builder is updated with the new stuff after each new release, so it should be fine to assume the old discontinued stuff would be removed no ? And since he is there, then he should be legit ? 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Myrdin

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Are you sure about that ?

I mean I can see him under the Beastmen tab. https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

The Warscroll builder is updated with the new stuff after each new release, so it should be fine to assume the old discontinued stuff would be removed no ? And since he is there, then he should be legit ? 

Still not a legal ally choice. Our only ally choice is StD. 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

Still not a legal ally choice. Our only ally choice is StD. 

Ahh.... right

Forgot we can only ally with Slaves of Darkness..... 

I dont wanna swear, but its extremely Idi**** that we cant ally ourselves with even the old Beastmen sub factions. I mean its really dumb.  I think for the Demons it was fixed,, but you still have to take that specific Battalions (and even then I am not sure if it works. I know the errata should have fixed this though.) so the unit selection options are limited to what we can bring in those (notice how no other monsters other than Gorghon and Cygor are listed in those. Not even Razorgor. I imagine a Nurgle battalion would be intersting with bunch of Razorgor suicide bombs for 40 pts each, but nope. None of that).

I guess I`ll just use my old Wargor BSB model as Bloodsecrator. Instead of +1 to Wound, the +1 Attack will have to do. 

(Funny how they can have this type of buff hero, but we cant.... damn I am getting salty here, better stop.)

 

Thanks for entertaining the thought guys. I completely forgot I actually cant do that due to the Allies chart. ?

Edited October 16, 2018 by Myrdin

[SirPug]

Bestigors. If i intend to take 30 bestigors should i take them as 3 separate units or massive. I fear their bases make them bit unwieldy if i intend to use them as hammer instead of anvil. 

I already intend to field 30 gors in single unit so i think 3 small units of bestigors would be better if for some god forsaken reason i need them to hold backline objective or charge in thw flank of units toed up by gors, i dont need to commit full 300 points to it.

Also i feel that I'm more likely to get all 10 to melee range. 30 sure would get loads of attack on charge but how many of them realisticly are getting 1 inch range from enemy?

Edited October 16, 2018 by SirPug

[Dracothjay]

8 minutes ago, SirPug said:

Bestigors. If i intend to take 30 bestigors should i take them as 3 separate units or massive. I fear their bases make them bit unwieldy if i intend to use them as hammer instead of anvil. 

I already intend to field 30 gors in single unit so i think 3 small units of bestigors would be better if for some god forsaken reason i need them to hold backline objective or charge in thw flank of units toed up by gors, i dont need to commit full 300 points to it.

Also i feel that I'm more likely to get all 10 to melee range. 30 sure would get loads of attack on charge but how many of them realisticly are getting 1 inch range from enemy?

Although 30 bestigors is good for the discount, running them MSU to maximise attacks from just a 10 man unit. Bestigors are very squishy and with low bravery we run the risk of horrific battleshock losses if out of range for CP’s if we run them 30 man. I run mine MSU as a high spike in damage to hit a unit hard. Up to you mate, I just prefer them in 10 man squads.

[Solaris]

On 10/16/2018 at 3:24 PM, Myrdin said:

Ahh.... right

Forgot we can only ally with Slaves of Darkness..... 

I dont wanna swear, but its extremely Idi**** that we cant ally ourselves with even the old Beastmen sub factions. I mean its really dumb.  I think for the Demons it was fixed,, but you still have to take that specific Battalions (and even then I am not sure if it works. I know the errata should have fixed this though.) so the unit selection options are limited to what we can bring in those (notice how no other monsters other than Gorghon and Cygor are listed in those. Not even Razorgor. I imagine a Nurgle battalion would be intersting with bunch of Razorgor suicide bombs for 40 pts each, but nope. None of that).

I guess I`ll just use my old Wargor BSB model as Bloodsecrator. Instead of +1 to Wound, the +1 Attack will have to do. 

(Funny how they can have this type of buff hero, but we cant.... damn I am getting salty here, better stop.)

 

Thanks for entertaining the thought guys. I completely forgot I actually cant do that due to the Allies chart. ?

It wouldn't work either way, because your assumption about warscroll builder being fully updated is not correct. There are lots of outdated units lingering there. It doesn't matter. If it's not in the most recent General's Handbook or in a book released after the most recent GH, it doesn't have points and is not part of Matched Play. There are loads of old warscrolls with old points costs around, and none of them are relevant anymore.

Regarding Bestigors, I think units of both 10 and 30 are good. With the speed we have, a unit of 30 deployed normally can get a lot of models in, and is great to stack buffs on. Units of 10 are more independent and are great ambush units. With only 10 models in a unit, failing the 9" charge doesn't hurt quite as much.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Solaris

[willange]

16 minutes ago, Solaris said:

It wouldn't work either way, because your assumption about warscrollen builder being fully updated is not correct. There are lots of outdated units lingering there. It doesn't matter. If it's not in the most recent General's Handbook or in a book released after the most recent GH it doesn't have points and is not part of Matched Play. There are loads of old warscrolls with old points costs around, and none of them are relevant anymore.

Regarding Bestigors, I think units of both 10 and 30 are good. With the speed we have, a unit of 30 deployed normally can get a lot of models in, and is great to stack buffs on. Units of 10 are more independent and are great ambush units. With only 10 models in a unit, failing the 9" charge doesn't hurt quite as much.

I'm new to the game, but don't you have to make 10'' charges after an ambush?  I thought ambushing units had to be placed more than 9'' away from enemies.  Is that correct?  

Edited October 16, 2018 by willange

[Solaris]

1 minute ago, willange said:

I'm new to the game, but don't you have to make 10'' charges after an ambush?  I thought ambushing units had to be placed more than 9'' away from enemies.  Is that correct?  

A charge only has to get you within 0.5" of the enemy.

[willange]

Just now, Solaris said:

A charge only has to get you within 0.5" of the enemy.

Ah, that makes sense.  I thought you still had to make the 10 and then place within 0.5''.  I play a lot of minis games and I'm still tripping over myself with the rules on this one, so I'm grateful for the clarification.

[Tasman]

1 hour ago, willange said:

Ah, that makes sense.  I thought you still had to make the 10 and then place within 0.5''.  I play a lot of minis games and I'm still tripping over myself with the rules on this one, so I'm grateful for the clarification.

You can basically set your unit 9.1" away from the enemy. Then a 9" charge makes it.?