AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[tvih]

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Yeah, until January 2020,  you basicly needed 1x Soulwars + 2x  Tempest of Souls for the Nighthaunt to get the Grimcast Reapers on 10 Models.

Now you can use 1x Soulwars, 1x Tempest of Souls and the new Warcry Nighthaunt Warband

 

That in turn still leaves you with 3 unused models though. Basically you'd need 4 of SW/ToS to get an even 20 reapers. Talk about monopose madness and you'd still need to convert extra Extollers with reaper blades. My plan currently is to just have the SW + Warband which leaves me with 9 stalkers and 9 reapers and then I simply use the extra Stalker as a Reaper, not sure I'm gonna even bother converting the weapon. Not like I plan on strict tournaments or such anyway.

Another option would be to get Tempest of Souls too and convert two of the extra reapers into Chainghasts, but kinda expensive even if I found someone to sell the Stormcasts to considering the reapers would be the only things I'd have any use for from that box. Too bad official Chainghasts only come with Crawlocke, and given the plethora of Leader options I don't see myself needing two Spirit Torments.

But yeah, a discussion y'all veterans must be bored to death of. I just wish I had more budget, so many nice units to buy.

[Casandora Yellow]

When I got my second half of the souls wars I converted two of the "extra" glaive wraiths into grimghast by cutting the sglaive and gluing it down like a scythe.  There is a height difference but it gets the job done

[tvih]

Yeah it's simple to do, but given the difference in stature of the model in other ways, it doesn't really look like a Reaper anyway, so I figure might as well keep the weapon as is at least for now. It only gets confusing if the Reaper unit piles into the same combat right next to the Stalkers, while Stalkers are unlikely to be in my lists too much once I get more models.

Speaking of which it's a bit sad. The lore-blurb about Stalkers being basically ultimate persistence hunter ghosts is pretty cool, but their rules do seem to let them down which is a shame. I didn't like the models that much at first, but they've grown on me. Seeing something like that relentlessly floating after me would definitely be terrifying indeed.

[Undeadly]

1 hour ago, tvih said:

Yeah it's simple to do, but given the difference in stature of the model in other ways, it doesn't really look like a Reaper anyway, so I figure might as well keep the weapon as is at least for now. It only gets confusing if the Reaper unit piles into the same combat right next to the Stalkers, while Stalkers are unlikely to be in my lists too much once I get more models.

Speaking of which it's a bit sad. The lore-blurb about Stalkers being basically ultimate persistence hunter ghosts is pretty cool, but their rules do seem to let them down which is a shame. I didn't like the models that much at first, but they've grown on me. Seeing something like that relentlessly floating after me would definitely be terrifying indeed.

I actually really like Glaivewraiths, they have a neat look to them, and their big honking glaives are neat. It's just a shame that their rules are so bland: they should have gotten some kind of buff against heros and monsters. Their weird rules about retreating and charging don't really fit them.

[Dredgejosh]

I just got a BUNCH of nighthaunt in a trade. I was wondering if someone could point me out to some advice/playing/lists I can look at and learn the army and how to play them. Can I make a competitive army with what is below and if not what should I be looking for. Thank you.  I'm coming over from 40k so this is all new to me. 
What I got in the trade:   

2x – Cairn Wraith
x2 – Gaurdian of Souls
x1 – Knight of Shrouds
x2 – Knight of Shrouds on Steed
x1 – Lady Olynder
x2 – Lord Executioner
x1 – Reikenor the Grimhailer
x2 – Spirit Torment
x1 – Arkhan the Black
x1 – Nagash
x20 – Grimshast Reapers
x15- Hexwraiths
x12 – Spirit Hosts
x40 – Chainrasp Horde
x40 – Chainrasp Horde
X1 – Black Coach
x1 – Mourngul
x10 Bladegheist Revenants
x4 Chainshasts
x12 Glavewraith Stalkers
x4 Myrmourn Banshees

 

[EnixLHQ]

4 hours ago, Dredgejosh said:

I just got a BUNCH of nighthaunt in a trade. I was wondering if someone could point me out to some advice/playing/lists I can look at and learn the army and how to play them.

Well, certainly!

⬇️

[Maxo Bug]

So, I've had this idea for quite some time.

Even thought at first I wasn't convinced about the non archetypal kind of ghost that the Glaivewraith stalkers are, I really grew fond of them with time. The lore they have is great, and after reading Soul Wars, the Battletome and some more, I really liked the idea of them being a kind of Boogeyman of the mortal realms, and more akin to some kind of "folk horror" ghost that haunted these particular worlds. The models are amazing as well, specially those of the "Easy to build" kit. Moreover, it's highly probable we already have a bunch of them.

My point is: they suck in the rules department, we know that. But maybe with some "small" changes they can be turned into something different from "more of the same, but worse", and make them an interesting, albeit situational, choice, that lives up to the fantasy as well.

What if:

• They were 2 wounds apiece: After all, they are a merge of horse and rider, according to ("retconned") lore.
• New rule for the Deathbeat drummer: A unit that includes any Deathbeat Drummers can pick one enemy unit in the game. If that unit is slain, you can pick another one at the start of your hero phase. If the Glaivewraith Stalkers are in combat with a different unit from the one selected, they can resolve the combat and immediately make another normal move, provided it is towards the selected unit. 

What do you think? At least makes more sense in the narrative aspect, but what about gameplay? Yay or nay?


PS: for reference, here is the current warscroll. They cost 60 per unit of 4. Points could be left as they are, maybe?

Edited February 13, 2020 by Maxo Bug
Grammar.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

Well, certainly!

⬇️

Hey man, I just noticed that you have your blog linked at the end of your posts. For some reason, the banner doesn't show up on my phone, but it does on my PC. Sorry for suggesting something you're already doing hehe

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, Maxo Bug said:

So, I've had this idea for quite some time.

Glaivewraiths are literally our only unit that has an icon bearer/banner carrier/musician mechanic. You could fix Glaivewraiths with just a single change to that Deathbeat Drummer: "...in addition, this unit may be selected to fight once more in the combat phase in which it charged."

Boom. Fits their lore, puts their damage on par with Bladegheists, can be FAQed in and not necessarily need a new warscroll card, AND give us a way of still having some WoT-like abilities when our charge rolls suck.

 

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey man, I just noticed that you have your blog linked at the end of your posts. For some reason, the banner doesn't show up on my phone, but it does on my PC. Sorry for suggesting something you're already doing hehe

I don't think any signatures can appear on mobile.

I'veadded every suggestion on my guide so far. Just need some time to work out the list-building section.

Edited February 13, 2020 by EnixLHQ

[Nogginnocker]

On 2/9/2020 at 1:40 PM, Undeadly said:

This is a pretty traditional Spirit Host horde list, but I will say that Arkhan proved invaluable; with the new OBR Warscroll for him, he is incredible. Giving 3 units Mystic shield, or 2 shields and 1 Curse of Years is fantastic, and thats not even mentioning his ability to bring back 3 wounds for **four** units. That pretty much hit every unit I had, and made them a real pain to kill.

 

Am I missing something here? How are you casting three mystic shields in a single turn?

Edit: oh. Staff of Spirits. Never noticed that before. Holy ******. I really need to get Arkhan. Thanks!

Edited February 13, 2020 by Nogginnocker
Answered my own question

[Nogginnocker]

On 2/11/2020 at 3:35 AM, The_Dudemeister said:

Also when it gets dispelled, you set up a whooping 6" away from it. Because it's a set-up and not a move, you do not count as retreated. A great way to get your caster out of a fight they can't win and move to prepare a charge to where they can. Bonus points if you let your Myrmourn Banshees do the dispelling. I just love everything about the Balewind Vortex 🙂

Wow. Now that is quite cheeky! Thanks for the tip. I love it.

[Spears]

I think the problem with just cranking the Glaivewraith damage up is that they then give us yet another option in the already muddled bladegheist/grimghast/banshee slot. I think giving them something with a little more utility to it might be nice, I had thought of either:

Strike and melt away skink style, so when you are selected to fight they can retreat instead. It fits with the ghostly theme but perhaps not with the relentless hunter thing.

Or

Add 1 to charge rolls for friendly nighthaunt units wholly within 9 of a death beat drummer (if you are feeling generous let it count for wave of terror)  I think you then might start to see them crop up alongside our other options and it goes some way to reducing the reliance on cogs for deepstrike heavy armies.  I'm not sure that investing more into charging is healthy for the faction though.

[The_Dudemeister]

Slaves to Darkness, Cities of Signar and several other factions have working bravery bombs that far surpass everything any Death faction can do when stacking all our different effects. And now the Mindstealer Sphiranx comes out for StD that also randomly gives -2 bravery.

 

Instead of directly dealing more damage, how about Glaivewraith Stalkers brings bravery debuffs to another level. For every wiped unit (same as Khorne's Blood Tithe mechanic), our Aura of Dread gets an additional -1 bravery. That would help out Tomb Banshees too, yet another unit noone even talks about.

[Neck-Romantic]

We talked about Tombs and Glaives here for many moons, actually 😁

And the soulwars box's crazy numbers too

[SleeperAgent]

I wish we could fix the Glaivewraith warscroll and be good, but the reality is we need a book re-write. Same with SC, Nurgle, BoC. They need to re-do the books to make them legitimately competitive. Nighthaunt was sold as THE bravery debuff army due to spookiness yet we can barely even get a -2 if we work at it. Our version of fight twice is totally random, and they highly overrated and overcosted Ethereal and fly army wide.

If they made a terrain piece that gave board wide -1 to bravery that goes up each battle round it would help. Maybe also give +1 to charge and it counts towards wave of terror.

If Cities of Sigmar can have a spell that straight up changes someones save to '-' why can't the spooky boys have one that changes the bravery to '-'?

Edited February 13, 2020 by SleeperAgent

[The_Dudemeister]

2 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:

If Cities of Sigmar can have a spell that straight up changes someones save to '-' why can't the spooky boys have one that changes the bravery to '-'?

*takes 6 Tomb Banshees and deepstrikes them all to deal 12d6 mortal wounds for an average of 42 mw in the shooting phase*

That would only kill 2/3rds of a full Grot-unit. I am 100% on board with this idea 😁

Edited February 13, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[LordPrometheus]

So what are our odds of getting  new NH/SCE battletomes this year, now that Seraphon is getting theirs?

[relic456]

I would be surprised if any changes were made to any 2.0 battletomes until the next edition. That said we're swiftly approaching uncharted territory (every army having an up to date tome), so really its anyone's guess!

[SleeperAgent]

9 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

*takes 6 Tomb Banshees and deepstrikes them all to deal 12d6 mortal wounds for an average of 42 mw in the shooting phase*

That would only kill 2/3rds of a full Grot-unit. I am 100% on board with this idea 😁

Considering what Tzeentch can do with flamers this is a viable option seeing as they can do something like 27d3 with rend 1. And their flamers can be battleline.

I hope for new tomes right around the GHB. It'll have been 2 years for NH and SC. And both of them are woefully underpowered. But more than likely we'll go to ghb allegiance rules. If that happens hopefully the consolidate all the Legion of Grief stuff into NH and give each of them a slight bump.

[plavski]

On 2/14/2020 at 2:34 AM, SleeperAgent said:

Considering what Tzeentch can do with flamers this is a viable option seeing as they can do something like 27d3 with rend 1. And their flamers can be battleline.

I hope for new tomes right around the GHB. It'll have been 2 years for NH and SC. And both of them are woefully underpowered. But more than likely we'll go to ghb allegiance rules. If that happens hopefully the consolidate all the Legion of Grief stuff into NH and give each of them a slight bump.

It'll be another Wrath of the Everchosen style book but with a Death focus, so new allegiances for all Death factions. There will be one for Order and another for Destruction. No idea on the Order, but I'd expect a big Chaos invasion to Shyish after Death's invasion of the Eightpoints, so Death would seem likely to be up next.

Edited February 15, 2020 by plavski

[SleeperAgent]

6 hours ago, plavski said:

It'll be another Wrath of the Everchosen style book but with a Death focus, so new allegiances for all Death factions. There will be one for Order and another for Destruction. No idea on the Order, but I'd expect a big Chaos invasion to Shyish after Death's invasion of the Eightpoints, so Death would seem likely to be up next.

This would be fine if Nighthaunt actually got a whole new set of abilities. With the way the narrative is it seems like OBR will get even more goodies and NH will get to ally into OBR.

[Greasygeek]

10 hours ago, plavski said:

It'll be another Wrath of the Everchosen style book but with a Death focus, so new allegiances for all Death factions.

This is purely speculation right? Wouldn’t mind if it were true though.

 

[plavski]

2 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

This is purely speculation right? Wouldn’t mind if it were true though.

 

Ben Johnson and Jes Bickham have indicated on Twitter that this is the approach they are taking now that all the books are out, Psychic Awakening style.

[Greasygeek]

Well it’s not a bad way to tip the crazy scales of balancing without constantly having to make new battletomes. Don’t play chaos (anymore) but it seem that Nurgle got quite a hand from the Wrath of... book. But havn’t read it myself so its all based on what I heard.

[dmorley21]

11 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:

This would be fine if Nighthaunt actually got a whole new set of abilities. With the way the narrative is it seems like OBR will get even more goodies and NH will get to ally into OBR.

I don't think that's completely necessary. Some units need a rewrite (hello Glaives!), but I think taking our allegiance abilities and then stacking that with sub faction abilities could do the trick. Imagine if we could choose from any of the following sub faction abilities:

3D6 charges where you get choose one die to discard. Still would allow Wave of Terror.

An additional -2 bravery on the charge.

Frightful touch army wide, then 5+ for units that already get it.

+1 to casting rolls, unbinds, dispels, and a 5+ shrug of spell effects.

A sub faction that had summoning.

 

Any of those with our current rules would make for really strong or fun builds.