Duke of Mousillon Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said: Tzaangors need dual weapons I knew it!!! Time to start converting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) Also I forgot to mention, but IIRC their advice for the GS was too use everything you can to shut down range or flying melee threats with Burning Sigil/Magister chaos spawn summoning into melee, screamers/enlightened high mobility, shutting down a lane with your first ES and range superiority with layering buffs onto Skyfires. And then you can get good play into there by putting Flamers down for damage or Elightened on foot to shut down most of the Command Abilities. Edited October 1, 2022 by Sinfullyvannila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandollies Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Just wondering if my eyes are playing up or if it’s my book; are Changecasters Monsters now? 0.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 @Mandollies 98% sure it is a misprint. Yes. It says monster there. But no. It will be erratad so fast you will forget it ever was there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said: @Mandollies 98% sure it is a misprint. Yes. It says monster there. But no. It will be erratad so fast you will forget it ever was there. Sir, are you insinuating that something about Tzeentch might . . . change?! I- uh, I'll let myself out . . . Edited October 2, 2022 by OkayestDM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Can somebody sell me on the Lord of Change? Feels a little dissapointing at that price point that Kairos does literally everything he does but more for 35 points extra. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Duke of Mousillon said: Can somebody sell me on the Lord of Change? Feels a little dissapointing at that price point that Kairos does literally everything he does but more for 35 points extra. Enhancements and stacking the +1 alongside Fateweaver. That's pretty much it. It's weird because I think the Lord of Change is better than it was but Fateweaver being changed to be more like it and less unique means it's now got to compete for the spot, and it loses that fight every time to Fatey. Edited October 2, 2022 by Jaskier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Jaskier said: be more like it and less unique means it's now got to compete for the spot, and it loses that fight every time to Fatey. Exactly this bums me out when thinking about the two. Kinda frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adammck66 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Yeah, I like having the lore and not a named version and atleast before you could give him some cool factiom relics. I kinda wish my acolytes were dual weapons now, even tho they kinda suck still. Also I have 6 skyfires and 6 disc enlightened. Unsure if better to do 2x6 or 4x3; extra attacks/msu vs easier to buff/less drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 @Adammck66 skyfires in one unit to buff them easier. Enlightend on disc in two separate because of their utility. Make them shutdown command abilities independently. And acolytes doesnt matter. New Tzaangor dual blades matter but acolytes dont matter as far as I can see. Shields are fine on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 I would like to start buying miniatures and converting stuff but I am afraid of the coming errata. When does the first errata for a new book usually drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) People. Interesting question. The warscrolls in our book are grouped. First come the demon heroes. Rhen the demon units. Then come the arcanie heroes. Then the arcanite units. Why is the Gaunt Summoner (both variants) at the start of the arcanite heroes list if they are now demons apparently? What is likelier. A: They misprinted his keyword and he is still an acanite. B: They forgot to move his page to the demon heroes. C : They have a reason to keep him as the only demon heroe inside the arcanite heroe section despite the warscrolls being clearly separated. Edit: removed emoticon in C : Edited October 2, 2022 by Duke of Mousillon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said: I would like to start buying miniatures and converting stuff but I am afraid of the coming errata. When does the first errata for a new book usually drop? If its the Tzaangors youre concerned about you may as well buy them and wait on building the ones in the kit that would have the savage Greatblades until the faq comes out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Tzaangors are in theory easy to magnetize... not much fun to do, but it's absolutely possible to do so thanks to their arms and chest being one part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Duke of Mousillon said: People. Interesting question. The warscrolls in our book are grouped. First come the demon heroes. Rhen the demon units. Then come the arcanie heroes. Then the arcanite units. Why is the Gaunt Summoner (both variants) at the start of the arcanite heroes list if they are now demons apparently? What is likelier. A: They misprinted his keyword and he is still an acanite. B: They forgot to move his page to the demon heroes. C : They have a reason to keep him as the only demon heroe inside the arcanite heroe section despite the warscrolls being clearly separated. Edit: removed emoticon in C : I think they screwed up the keywords, since they screwed them up in a bunch of other places in the book too. We'll see in the FAQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) The Gaunt being a Daemon means it gets to pick a spell from the Lore of Change, right? If that's the case, it has pretty good utility given it also knows the entire Lore of Fate. I'm not sure on the legality of it as usually models that know entire spell lores don't get access to other spell lores (i.e Morathi knows the entire Lore of Shadows but as a named character she can't use the universal spell lore.) I think if anything it is supposed to have the Daemon keyword (as it historically had both) but it probably is supposed to have the Arcanite keyword too. We'll see within a month I guess. Edited October 3, 2022 by Jaskier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNCMD Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Just a personal opinion really, and I acknowledge this isn't contributing in a positive manner, but I feel 3e tome is going to be a bit lackluster and more of a "you're not amazing, you're not sh**" kinda tome. I'm also just a bit, underwhelmed with not only the state of our tome but some of the other ones that have seen releases as well. I also feel as if our tome and some of the others have just been a bit lazy. Agree that the Arcanite keyword from GS will most likely be added in, but I think there's bigger issues here that GW need to acknowledge and that this one wasn't very well thought out. Maybe they're trying to stabilize things across the board, not sure. I'd be interested to hear what other people feel about the current rules and if they feel that there's a bit too much going on/a bit of rules bloat? I'm more a casual gamer but trying to get more competitive and it just feels overwhelming sometimes the sheer amount of stuff to remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Mousillon Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 @RUNCMD I am not excited by the new tome either. Most if not all of what I hoped for never came true. Though lets look at our tome from a design and balance perspective. Were we unbalanced in the last tome? We had ups and downs. As far as I can tell we were definetly not a popular faction at tournaments. Though the few very dedicated cultists of Tzeentch managed to win somehow. Not too long before the VS box dropped Tzeentch won a tournament. I cannot remember who piloted the list but as I said. Few players but those who were dedicated enough had the opportunity to win. Though to be fair I think the winning Tzeentch lists used that incarnate stuff. I dont know how much of those wins then speak for our power level and how much speaks for the Incarnates power level. If anything I would maybe say Tzeentch was a little too weak. Not much. Design wise I will be honest. I would design Tzeentch differently. I think Tzeentch could feel way more like Tzeentch. This is ofcourse personal opinion. There are people out there who probably think that this is exactly how they imagine Tzeentch to feel. That aside. Design wise we were not outdated. Right? They did polish around the edges (ex removing rerolls on attacks and wounds... or even safes Rest in Peace Paradoxical Shield) so now we "stick to 3rd edition mechanics" so to say. But our rules still do not feel too old or anything. So were they "lazy" with our tome? Yeah. Probably. But did we need the extra attention like for example Nurgle? No. We did not, I would argue. It is not like they did not do anything. The different Heralds now actually do different things. At least more then before. Enlightened and Skyfire both have interesting new abilities. How relevant they are is to be seen. That does not mean I would not have hoped for more changes. I still think it is laughable that Lord of Change is 2 casts. 400 points. A greater Demon of Tzeentch? 2 casts? I guess we are still just the demons who literally created magic. I would have gone a different design route. Personally I was not able to actively play 3rd edition so I do not think I can give a good judgement on the rulesbloat. Keeping that in mind, third edition did bring in new things like Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies. Which exist as generic and faction specific. So it did increase the complexity of the game. Are their too many rules now? I cannot judge that in good faith. 6 hours ago, RUNCMD said: "you're not amazing, you're not sh**" And here we have to ask ourselves. Is this not how balancing should be? Youre not terrible. Youre not standing out. Youre just good enough. Which does not mean it should not feel awesome to play an army. A faction should definetly not feel boring to play. But from a balancing perspective that sounds like a good start. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 The 2e Tzeentch book was incredibly strong when it came out and remained good for its entire lifetime. Sure they werent as strong during 3e, but They still had some good results. Also a lot of the power will come from our new BTs, we get 3-4 autocomplete battle tactics and a couple easy GS. Its not flashy or interesting but it will win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adammck66 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Problem with my Tzeentch collection is its mostly the first Christmas box that came out so I'm extemely lacking in daemons. Basically 20 tzaan, 20 kairoc, bunch of heroes and 2x6 discs. Only daemon is lord of change and gaunt (kinda?) Feel I need to add some since eternal conflag atleast affects multiple units vs pyrofane. Maybe the getting started is a shout, but damn daemons are so expensive pointswise. Also sad how sucky my shaman is now, his ability for 2 cast is nice but meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Ganigumo said: Also a lot of the power will come from our new BTs, we get 3-4 autocomplete battle tactics and a couple easy GS. Its not flashy or interesting but it will win games. Honestly this is one of my least favorite parts of the book. Having brain-dead battle tactics and grand strategies just feels like the worst way to win a game ever. If we were back in the last GHB when everything was stupidly simple then that would be one thing, but in the current GHB it feels like a built in way to cheat. I really hope this doesn't become a common balancing method in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotruk Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, Grimrock said: Honestly this is one of my least favorite parts of the book. Having brain-dead battle tactics and grand strategies just feels like the worst way to win a game ever. If we were back in the last GHB when everything was stupidly simple then that would be one thing, but in the current GHB it feels like a built in way to cheat. I really hope this doesn't become a common balancing method in the future. Afraid by this way of balancing too. That was heavily the case for necrons in 40k, for example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Grimrock said: Honestly this is one of my least favorite parts of the book. Having brain-dead battle tactics and grand strategies just feels like the worst way to win a game ever. If we were back in the last GHB when everything was stupidly simple then that would be one thing, but in the current GHB it feels like a built in way to cheat. I really hope this doesn't become a common balancing method in the future. I don't like it either, honestly I'm pretty done with BT and GS as a whole. I think most players would rather have the power and cool interactions built into the rules rather than the BT/GS. I'd trade all of them for kairics and cult of the transient form to be good options. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) I feel like there are some typos, will reserve judgement on those points to see if it is something that sticks first. I'm not really holding out hope, but am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the AoS team. -Monster herald, obvious typo -Gaunt lacking Arcanite keyword -LoC having 2 casts instead of an intended 3? It would make a lot more sense. Some other places where I feel the ball was dropped is screamers losing the bonus damage against monsters (I blame the on 'units get only one shtick!' policy that seems to be around), Changeling's staff not being able to copy an opponent's weapon, flamers still don't work at all like their fluff, and apparently no one so much as doing the grade school match required to calculate average damage output of tzaangor/acolyte weapon options (though if the paired hit on 4+ it would be fine). That said there are a lot of improvements too. For one the not-battle tactic allegiance mechanic always felt tacked on to me and I am glad it is gone. Tzaangor beak attacks being the same profile as their weapons (bar dual blades) is a great quality of life improvement, Enlightened and Skyfire new abilities are potent a create interesting gameplay without being smothering, AoE cast re-rolls are gone (obv cogs is a thing but still) while there is still SOME re-roll available via Tome of Eyes which to me is a good example of moderation, chaos spawn actually do something other than exist (even if I hate the repeated use of auto-wound-rend-8 mechanics), and every warscroll has a mechanically useful function and is interesting in some way (even if points cost may render them inferior). The book is also more coalition friendly without letting them have full access and I like the balance between the two extremes better than 2nd edition or the 'core enhancements only' approach of Nurgle. Much more items I am mixed on or need to see in action. Definitely a full range of good and bad here IMO, not good game design but it is certainly fitting... Edited October 3, 2022 by NinthMusketeer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Of Dice Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Hey all! I want to find some feedback on the latest Tzeentch inspired dice! What do we think? Anything you would change; color, square corner, translucent, etc. Appreciate the feedback in advance! These are on Baron of Dice 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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