Mandollies

Just wondering if my eyes are playing up or if it’s my book; are Changecasters Monsters now? 0.o

Jarvis has said the phrase “Kill your darlings”; a part of game design that if you had to put in multiple rules to justify a rule (like extra command points for going second, removing objectives by the person going 2nd in Round 3) then you should remove it.

Well; I just checked the rules thinking it would be an easy no. Except that the Slaves to Darkness rules refer to the Daemon Prince by the Keywords (so technically yes; but wait a month for the FAQ before playing it that way) I know the Disciples of Tzeentch ruled no to summoning Kairos with the Guild of Summoners but that was just a specific ruling unlike a general rule to not being able to summon unique characters.

I do recall somewhere where it stated in a FAQ (I think) a Battalion has where its whatever book it is in. Hang on; "Q: Some warscroll battalions included in battletomes do not have a faction listed above their title. How do I determine which faction they belong to for the purposes of allegiance abilities? A: The battalion belongs to all of the factions in that battletome. For example, the warscroll battalions in Battletome: Stormcast Eternals are part of the Stormcast Eternals faction." That said; I also just looked at the XINTIL WAR-MAGI Battalion in BR: Teclis. No Faction listed; and Broken Realms Teclis isnt a Battletome - so some assumptions look to have been made already...

So Sigmar Rules Question (prompted by a off hand comment Warhammer Weekly made that gave me this idea - FWIW they didn't pick up on the potential ramifications); "LEGION OF THE FIRST PRINCE When you pick the Chaos allegiance for your army, you can say that it will be a Legion of the First Prince army." This is from the Slaanesh army (the closest thing I can find;) "ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES This section describes the allegiance abilities available to a Slaanesh army. The rules for using allegiance abilities can be found in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar Core Book." From Broken Realms Morathi (Stormkeep) "When you pick the Stormcast Eternals allegiance for your army, you can say it will be a Stormkeep army. If you do so, you must use the Celestial Sentinels battle traits on this page instead of the Legends of the Living Tempest battle traits from Battletome: Stormcast Eternals (it is still considered to be a Stormcast Eternals army for the purposes of the other allegiance abilities)." Does this mean that the Legion of the First Prince is still a Chaos Army and so benefits from the generic Chaos Battle Traits; Command Trait & Artifacts? Further to that (and to be honest this is a bigger Question as the Chaos Allegiance abilities are a bundle of mostly Meh) The FAQ states; Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). The Question is then; as Legion of the First Princes is a Chaos Allegiance army (possibly) does this mean that it can take the various Daemon Battalions and have them not count as Allies? (Ie take Changehost for example in the army and the units inside get the First Prince & Chaos Traits)

So Sigmar Rules Question (prompted by a off hand comment Warhammer Weekly made that gave me this idea - FWIW they didn't pick up on the potential ramifications); LEGION OF THE FIRST PRINCE When you pick the Chaos allegiance for your army, you can say that it will be a Legion of the First Prince army. This is from the Slaanesh army (the closest thing I can find;) ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES This section describes the allegiance abilities available to a Slaanesh army. The rules for using allegiance abilities can be found in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar Core Book. From Broken Realms Morathi (Stormkeep) When you pick the Stormcast Eternals allegiance for your army, you can say it will be a Stormkeep army. If you do so, you must use the Celestial Sentinels battle traits on this page instead of the Legends of the Living Tempest battle traits from Battletome: Stormcast Eternals (it is still considered to be a Stormcast Eternals army for the purposes of the other allegiance abilities). Does this mean that the Legion of the First Prince is still a Chaos Army and so benefits from the generic Chaos Battle Traits; Command Trait & Artefacts? Further to that (and to be honest this is a bigger Question as the Chaos Allegiance abilities are a bundle of Meh) The FAQ states; Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). The Question is then; as Legion of the First Princes is a Chaos Allegiance army (possibly) does this mean that it can take the various Daemon Battalions and have them not count as Allies?

Text didn't copy across good; lets try that again

Pinks only get the 6++ on their Warscroll yes; but the entire army gets a 6++ from the Allegiance Battle Trait so the Blues/Brims use that instead.

By my reading (FWIW) The Battalions are still ok to be used right? Its only been the Allegiance Abilities that have been superseded by Broken Realms: Be'lakor correct?

Yep; only summoned in the last game; the first two ended Turn 3 and I had over 12 Depravity by that stage. The last game was about 14 or 15 at the end of turn 5. As for Intoxicating Pall; I was told after I posted the report; but it only mattered in the first game and instead I would have done reroll 1's with the generic Command Ability and it would be fairly similar outcome iirc with the dice rolls - that said; always up for having mistakes pointed out

Id probably swap out Pallisades out for Burning Head; if only for the reroll 1's To Hit as I did notice I was needing that. As it was my first games with the list meant I was hoarding Command Points; when Im getting 3 or 4 a turn I should have been using them alittle more than I was (I think I ended the first game with 7 Command Points on turn 3.) Swapping the Heal spell out of Archaon for something else may be fine as with Glutos's Command ability and the Khorne Head regenerating wounds meant I didnt really need to use it.

I just thought Id post with some results of a local tournament I attended yesterday with about 20 odd players (3 rounds and 2K) Below is the list I took. I went undefeated amassing 5800 Victory Points out of 6000pts I faced in order; Tzeentch Changehost with Flamers; Luminith with Teclis & The Big Stone Cow; and Luminith with Teclis; both Lumineth armies were the +1 to Cast and Deny for the first spell. I won the first two games; but because I had taken a silly list my 3rd round Opponent wanted a 10/10 draw so didnt really try that game; well until the 5th round and he thought he could get the win and so the casual game where the results didnt matter turned into a battle for first place (I say this because I wasnt playing to win; so could have summoned in turn 4 to win; instead I summoned on turn 5 to draw the game - just to ****** off my opponent who reneged on the deal then wiped him off the table just to put some salt into the wound ) I spent most of Friday night trying to figure out what to take; unfortunately I only had Glutos and 15 Slickblades put together. It got to 12:30 on Saturday morning where I just took this joke of a list and wasnt sure it could win a single game. Other than the final game on the final turn did I summon FYI. First round (Total Conquest) was against Changehost and a very similar list that I ran at last years Cancon where I came 13th out of 220 or so (undefeated till the last round where I crunbled to Petrifex OBR - and yes it was the list that catapulted me that high :P). 12 flamers; exalted flamer, Lord of Change, 20 Pinks and some brimstones with a Fatemaster. I got the Masque and a unit of Chaos Warriors Ambushing) My opponent took the first turn; got Archaon down to 9 Wounds from shooting and so charged my entire block huddled by Glutos for the -1 To it with 20 Pinks and no 1's in the Destiny Dice pool. At the end of his turn; I had taken 1 or 2 wounds across various units but had him down to 3 Brimstones. Glutos gave his Command ability that then got him back up to full wounds and then won the double to basically wipe out his flamer block and Lord of Change with a double charge from Archaon and Glutos while the rest of the battleline just reached out and gained the other objectives. I wiped him out in Turn 3 and held all the objectives. The Masque rolled quite a few 6's on the GW Slaanesh dice to get 11 Wounds on the Changeling with rerolls on the hits and wounds (I either got lucky all event or those dice may not be evenly weighted... :/) 2nd Round (Shifting Objectives) was against the Lumineth with the Cow and I took first turn after Ambushing again the Masque and a unit of Chaos Warriors) and got Archaon fully buffed with the Chaos Sorcerer and found out the Fane is now 6" and not 1" iirc was the range of doing the Sacrifice from the previous tome. Archaon took a mortal from the Fane but bounced it back (take that inanimate terrain piece! However thanks for the +1 to Hit!) I took the two objectives including the primary (and pretty much held it for the entire game). My opponent had zoned me out with the ambushing units; but my plan for the Masque and Chaos Warriors was always to take a side objective. He wisely did the 2 Command Points spell (as well as a few other spells including the bubble of 18" damage which didnt really do to much apart from give me Depravity) and so when he charged the bull in I couldnt fight a second time after using the Command Points I had amassed in my turn. I had used them up to get +1 Save to Archaon in the Combat and the Shooting phases from Lurid Haze (yes; this army generates Command Points in a crazy amount.) With the rerolls of the saves on Archaon and a 2+ save; I survived with 8 wounds but got the Bull down to 1 or 2 Wounds That said I did do a massive amount of damage. My next Turn; I had enough Command Points to do Glutos Command Trait and the Fight Twice on Archaon. After the Nurgle Head on Archaon killed the Bull in the Hero Phase and getting another +1 to hit on Archaon from the fane as well as the Spear block, I then double charged the Sentinal & Warden Blocks making sure to clip the Stone mage that was nearby with Archaon. I activated Glutos to get down the numbers of the Spear Elves then used Archaon to do the Three Heads on the Stone Mage and the rest of the attacks overkilling the Sentinals and healing Archaon back up to full health. Archaon then did a second activation that wiped out the Archers. My opponent then tried to cast the Double Movement spell on himself to get out of Dodge but Glutos managed to stop that and so with Ethereal active he charged in Archaon and hoped that he could pin him in place. He had forgotten to cast the Double Command point spell and so Archaon was easily able to weather the storm and get some wounds through. In my turn; I charged Glutos over to the Wardens and Sentinals that were giving my warriors trouble after the Masque had died (who at least taken down about 70% of the squad out by herself.) Glutos wiped out the unit and iirc Archaon got off Slayer of Kings on Teclis. The third round (Blades Edge) was against a mate of mine who was playing Lumineth with Teclis; a Cathallar, the Endless Spell that increases the ability to cast (with the subfaction that gives +1 on the first Cast/Dispell from that unit) a unit of Dawnriders and iirc 3 units of Archers and Spears. At the start of the game; my mate suggested a 10-10 draw; as I wasnt playing for sheep stations I was fine with it - I mean I wasnt confident that the army would let alone win 1 game let alone 2 or 3. Anyways; we are playing a casual game and Im not bothering to use my depravity to summon units and take unclaimed objectives (so the choices I made were not at all competitive and so I wont go into detail); until the start of his 5th turn (I was yet to have my fifth) when the TO came up and asked that he wouldn't want a draw as it will ****** up the results too much. My mate happily said that it was fine as he was about to win the game anyway and he didnt want a draw anyways. Needless to say I was abit pissed mainly because I was happy not to be on the podium as it would open up the field and give others a feel good experience. As a result I summoned a 30 man unit onto an Objective to ensure I drew the game (my first time for the entire event.) To add Salt to the wound or my mate to try to win the game wen we had settled on a draw; I wiped out his army on my last turn; despite Teclis being Ethereal; Archaon took him out the old fashioned way (albeit with a double activation :P) It turns out; that with the Draw and the amount of VPs that I had scored (5800 out of 6000) I had come 2nd (first was Legions of Nagash with the big man himself.) and third was yet more Lumineth. MVP Was Archaon and Glutos Tag team - Archaon with his Bravery Debuff helps Dark Delusions go off; Glutos's Command Ability allowed Archaon to stay alive with pretty much full health each game; the Chaos Lord I used was a Finecast Sigvald (I did try to get the new model in the army but too pricey) and was easy to hide - and so survive (esp with a -2 To Hit in Shooting near Chaos Warriors.) With the Chaos lord running due to a excess of Command Points; Glutos with his movement; Archaon was very easy to keep in range of all the buffs (strangely enough the Chaos Sorcerer was the first to die; for some reason people dont like a dude that allows Archaon to reroll Hits, Wounds & Saves Speaking of Command Points; this army is abit crazy in its generation. 1 from the turn, 1 from Archaon, 1 most of the time from the Battalion and the Masque would always like to ambush near Commanding Terrain - going from 1 to 5 Command Points in a turn is abit Crazy. A Mate did take the rod of misrule at the event (he took blisbarb archers and a 15 man Chaos Warrior blob; unfortunately I dont think he did too well) but rolled a 1 alot of the times and so gave the opponent a Command Point more often than should be average. The +1 To Hit from the Icon of Infinite Excess - despite my reservations of a one use item was really good to ensure that with either fane or Dark Delusions; he will always get +1 to hit against units with a -1 To Hit or to at least negate negative modifiers. Having Dorgar's 3 Heads hit on 2's is so important to ensure you deal out the damage or get overkill for Wound regeneration. Palisades were pretty much useless what with facing a Lord of Change and 2 Teclis'; but thinking about it; a Burning Head could be useful as rerolling 1's could be extreamly useful for Archaon. I did have a few people complain about my list as they dont believe Archaon should have the Hedonites keyword as he is Overpowered when paired with Glutos - despite those 2 models costing 1200pts alone). It was kind of telling; that out of the book I did only use 2 units (The Masque and Glutos.) The Masque is a very good blender of light units; just make sure you dont charge her; and instead pile-in only when you want her to blend. Remember her Hit/Wounds reroll ability as it cost me her when I failed to reroll when against my 2nd round archers allowing more of them to stay alive to shoot her to death. Hope this long Tourny report is of use to people Lurid Haze 2000pts Drops Min: 4 Max 8 Turn 0 Command Points: 1 ENDLESS SPELL: Prismatic Palisades (30) BATTALION: Supreme Sybarites (150) Glutos (400) SPELL: DARK DELUSIONS: Casting Value: 4+ Archaon (800) SPELL: BORN OF DAMNATION: Casting Value: 4+ Chaos Lord (110) GENERAL COMMAND TRAIT Feverish Anticipation: ARTEFACT: Icon of Infinite Excess: Chaos Sorcerer (110) SPELL: DARK DELUSIONS: Casting Value: 4+ ARTEFACT: Oil of Exultation The Masque (130) GENERAL 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

I’m guessing they were still toying around to the fixes to the gaunt summoners and OBR, two fixes I quite like (and yes I do play gaunt summoners)

To give Archaon a 5+ After save. This will give him a 3+ armour save, a 5+ Harbringer save and if within range of the General; a 5+ Allegiance save (otherwise a 6+ save). Put him near some Mystical Terrain for an extra 6+ save and Mystic Shield for some additional durability while he pops out Pink Horrors just over 50% of the time that can walk after they are summoned (until the FAQ of course Im sure...).

It gave access to the The Masters Command spell (effectively fight after death for the lessor daemons) ; there was no downsides to taking the host so I thought why not. It never came up but could be useful in the right circumstances.