Sleboda Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, bird_man34 said: A stronger opponent that values player skill in winning should be challenging themselves That's a bit wishful or hopeful, isn't it? Who says what a good player "should" be doing? They can play however they like, and maybe one reason they are good players is that they can spot armies that are better and get even more out of them than average players can. I don't fault a good player for not lowering himself or herself just for a challenge. Edit: Actually, I would be somewhat upset if my opponent in a competitive game deliberately chose options he or she knew to be weaker. it's like them saying "I can beat you without really trying, so I will go down to your level." Rather insulting, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Sleboda said: That's a bit wishful or hopeful, isn't it? Who says what a good player "should" be doing? They can play however they like, and maybe one reason they are good players is that they can spot armies that are better and get even more out of them than average players can. I don't fault a good player for not lowering himself or herself just for a challenge. Edit: Actually, I would be somewhat upset if my opponent in a competitive game deliberately chose options he or she knew to be weaker. it's like them saying "I can beat you without really trying, so I will go down to your level." Rather insulting, actually. Isn't it mostly about building solid list and getting reps in? The majority of players are lucky to get more than one competitive level game per week. Someone who's getting a bunch of reps in with their competitive list is at such a massive advantage already, it honestly doesn't matter who they play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshirtman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, bird_man34 said: I would disagree here. A stronger opponent that values player skill in winning should be challenging themselves to be better players constantly which they are not doing by playing against a weaker opponent with a stronger army. As the weaker opponent will not be capitalising on their mistakes making the stronger opponent become lazy when playing an opponent of equal or greater skill. Taking a 'handicapped' army will ensure that they are not relying on any crutches that they may be dependent opening their understanding of the game so more list building building options will be open to them and they will be more likely to be able to find the list that drives the meta going forward. Therefore, crushing weaker opponents helps nobody but someone who needs their ego stroked as the weaker player is more likely to quit the game in frustration instead of growing their skill over time and 'getting good' and the stronger player wastes their time and effort because they were not able to match wits with their opponent on an easy win that was not in doubt before the game began. Did you ever do any compatitive sports or something like that? Because in non that I know of, or any I personally took part in did it ever happen that the top contender did anything to lower their chance of winning. In fact if they could they did everything to get an edge. For example our running team was ok, but we never took first place in state events,save for two times. The two teams that did always did everything to hold the events as early as possible, because their runners were weaker when they had to work when it was hotter. And because winning tournaments ment they had more judges and orgenisers of the event they always had the long run in the earliest of mornings. The two times long run events had to be held near noon, they didn't even place in top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiyuren Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Xasz said: Do we know anything about Knights, Chariots, Chosen or the Shrine? Meaning exact numbers. I'd guess the majority of StD and Chaos Warriors stayed they same. Knights & chosen = no change. Warshrine down 20pts Chariots still 80, but no longer conditional battleline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Aginor said: Only Slann can summon. I want to be able to to play games without Slann and still not suck. And the point change was necessary for that. What I like about Seraphon is their versatility. And that is improved by the changes. All units should be good for something. There should be different play styles. And that's what is a bit sad about the summoning. Magic heavy? Slann. Deep strike? Slann. Summoning? Slann. Slann was good before, but now he is a must take, and that is sad, regardless of how strong he is. They didn't increase the point of the slann at all, which you would figure they would since he is the summoning unit. So, yeah. 2 hours ago, bird_man34 said: I would disagree here. A stronger opponent that values player skill in winning should be challenging themselves to be better players constantly which they are not doing by playing against a weaker opponent with a stronger army. As the weaker opponent will not be capitalising on their mistakes making the stronger opponent become lazy when playing an opponent of equal or greater skill. Taking a 'handicapped' army will ensure that they are not relying on any crutches that they may be dependent opening their understanding of the game so more list building building options will be open to them and they will be more likely to be able to find the list that drives the meta going forward. Therefore, crushing weaker opponents helps nobody but someone who needs their ego stroked as the weaker player is more likely to quit the game in frustration instead of growing their skill over time and 'getting good' and the stronger player wastes their time and effort because they were not able to match wits with their opponent on an easy win that was not in doubt before the game began. In a tournament, points are usually awarded by how badly you beat your opponent. A tough fought match between two great players can lock both out of the top ten, a blow out moves you to the top tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick907 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Cambot1231 said: Poor wanderers got kicked in the acorns too... only one unit allowed to teleport along table edge per movement phase now. Looks like rangers, sisters of watch, and wild riders got a needed point decrease at least. What about Glade Guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, stratigo said: They didn't increase the point of the slann at all, which you would figure they would since he is the summoning unit. So, yeah. In a tournament, points are usually awarded by how badly you beat your opponent. A tough fought match between two great players can lock both out of the top ten, a blow out moves you to the top tables. Yeah, most of what he said didn't make all that much sense. Sure you want to play tough opponents to try and get better, but the goal is still to utterly destroy them and dominate the game as hard as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Anyone see if the FW stuff was changed/added/updated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Anyone spot changes to Darkling Covens or the other Aelven factions? I've been able to see the Serpentis ones, as posted earlier, but interested in the apparent drops to Executioners and Black Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojay180 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 On 6/15/2018 at 4:50 AM, Lanoss said: Any word of Sylaventh yet? kHunters drop back down? wasnt Durthu getting a little point drop also? Saw a video yesterday hard to read but 99% sure this is right: Durthu 360 Kurnoths 200 Spite Revs 70 Battalion changes but nothing dramatic, some even go up (Household 100) No increase on Branchwych or Wraith which is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaelART Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 hours ago, blueshirtman said: Did you ever do any compatitive sports or something like that? Because in non that I know of, or any I personally took part in did it ever happen that the top contender did anything to lower their chance of winning. In fact if they could they did everything to get an edge. For example our running team was ok, but we never took first place in state events,save for two times. The two teams that did always did everything to hold the events as early as possible, because their runners were weaker when they had to work when it was hotter. And because winning tournaments ment they had more judges and orgenisers of the event they always had the long run in the earliest of mornings. The two times long run events had to be held near noon, they didn't even place in top 4. I would say that self-handicap comes during the "training" phase, not the "competitive" phase. For example, people often train at altitudes that make every task that much harder, over-time, your body compensates, then when you come back down for the competition you will be in a much better position to win. I guess if during practice games, you give yourself a disadvantage because you are trying to further develop a tactical and strategic intelligence/intuition, which when you hit a competition with a competitive list will end up giving you an edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erdemo86 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Frostheart Phoenix up to 280. Flamesspyre Phoenix up to 380. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 It'sbit of a stretch to compare Warhammer to competitive sports. I would say that most players play what ever they fancy and the players that play the most powerful list just because it's the most powerful are not so common. Of course people play armies that have chance of winning, but buying and painting army just because it's the best in latest meta is only for few people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, Jamopower said: It'sbit of a stretch to compare Warhammer to competitive sports. I would say that most players play what ever they fancy and the players that play the most powerful list just because it's the most powerful are not so common. Of course people play armies that have chance of winning, but buying and painting army just because it's the best in latest meta is only for few people. Agree with this. No one wants to lose constantly, but I'm not going to change the army I choose to collect and play with because it's a weaker faction. I'll never collect Tzeentch or Seraphon or Nurgle because I don't like them. I like the aelves, Idoneth, Daughters. It's nice the latter are competitive, but even if they weren't that wouldn't matter. Every person I know collects what they like to collect and paint. Undoubtedly the competitive element exists, and is strong, but if you feel remotely that way, you should probably focus attention on the strongest factions rather than fret over balance. (caveat: I play a lot of Street Fighter. I'm used to no balance, or the merest semblance of balance.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshirtman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Jamopower said: It'sbit of a stretch to compare Warhammer to competitive sports. I would say that most players play what ever they fancy and the players that play the most powerful list just because it's the most powerful are not so common. Of course people play armies that have chance of winning, but buying and painting army just because it's the best in latest meta is only for few people. I would say it is almost exclusive in countries like Poland. The armies cost too much to buy a bad one and wait 1-2 years hoping for an update. Specially as others whose armies are good, are not going to pull punchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, blueshirtman said: I would say it is almost exclusive in countries like Poland. The armies cost too much to buy a bad one and wait 1-2 years hoping for an update. Specially as others whose armies are good, are not going to pull punchs. Yes, but I still don't believe that everyone in poland plays Tzeentch if it's considered to be the best list, there will still be players that have a Khorne army and play it the best as they can (just as examples) . Especially nowadays when the tables turn every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said: Frostheart Phoenix up to 280. Flamesspyre Phoenix up to 380. Woha! Steep price increase for what is a 50% chance to get your Flamespyre Phoenix back. I don't think it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infeston Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Turragor said: The image is perfect lol Jeah. ? I really had to laugh the moment I saw the image attached to the thread. Funny thing that this image got selected as a representation of the thread, even though it appears later in the thread. @heywoah_twitch They really said that on stream that they only did slight changes, because they don't want BCR to be good again? Or is this just rephrase and interpretation of yours? If they really said that, then this is a really rude move. @Deathmaster Snikch I strongly disagree with your statements considering BCR. And I also want other factions to be pushed. Destruction is at the moment often only reduced to Ironjawz and I as a former Ogor player really want them to push or create new Ogors. BCR was also only that because of the Kunning Rukk and Stonehorn combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feche90 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 There seems to be a high expectation on death armies, specially LoN, probably for the summoning thing. But considering that they can only revive units that were slain, I don't think they are going to be as strong as seraphon. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseOnABeachBall Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 How about pestilens ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Feche90 said: There seems to be a high expectation on death armies, specially LoN, probably for the summoning thing. But considering that they can only revive units that were slain, I don't think they are going to be as strong as seraphon. Just my opinion We will see....Death has actually some new options with the new NH units and the upcoming NH battletome. Plus the new (not yet revealed) last NH char. BTW, death has more cheap magical options that the seraphon. I'm not really counting on summoning which should be renamed for death "reviving" because of no new units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamar Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 7 hours ago, DanielFM said: Woha! Steep price increase for what is a 50% chance to get your Flamespyre Phoenix back. I don't think it's worth it. Am I right in thinking I heard that warscrolls were all being reviewed? If so, perhaps the Phoenix reborn ability is changed so that you can keep trying, rather than just one shot and that’s that. Purely speculation on my part, but if you do get more than one attempt then I could see that being a worthwhile cost. If it stays as is though I agree, it’s not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samanar Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 What are the chances of pure Sylvaneth or Sylvaneth /w Wanderers allies becoming competitive again? Do we know anything already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasant Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 any info about the bastiladon points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 hours ago, DanielFM said: Woha! Steep price increase for what is a 50% chance to get your Flamespyre Phoenix back. I don't think it's worth it. Yeah, I gotta agree here. Flamespyres were not seeing play much at 240 points, so it's a stretch to say that the new one would be worth it at 360. Frosties only going up to 280 should keep them viable though, albeit maybe not quite as good. Anyone know if the Luminark or Hurricanum changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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