Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[GeneralZero]

20 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

because for once we'd like to avoid a very avoidable fiasco

LOL. Numbers make you wrong. Financial results make them right.

Having dumb unit size allow:

- to put them all in fewer sprues (less costs more money)

- to make a great starter set with many things into it. (more sales, more money)

- to make people complete even the units in the starter set (more money)

- to engage people into the hobby because the starter set is by no way a complete game by itself (more money)

I don't care if they do more money. It is their game. Ours is to build armies and play.

[Yoshiya]

Does anyone else feel that Kurdoss' lore is a little off? A master of light magic that understands the energies of Shyish (ie. Death magic) better than anyone. The model also doesn't look anything like a mage and if I had never seen his rules/lore before I would probably never guess he was the wizard over the Craven King.

[Aginor]

I still don't like that they are making endless spells that are faction specific.

It began well and now they make it bad again. Really sad. I don't understand why that is necessary. If they were at least Grand Order specific, or available to wizards with certain keywords (celestial/death/chaos/waagh-energy spells for example) but no...

IMO it is just another kick in the nuts for all armies without a current battletome. Especially since some armies probably will never get one in this edition.

Also: there are over 40 factions. There are ~20 battletomes. Three of them are SCE. Do they really need a fourth battletome more urgently than Goblins or Beastmen their first?

I am lucky with my armies (despite one old Battletome without spell lore) but I totally understand people being... a bit angry.

Let's hope that at least the unique spells are not better than the general ones.

This is becoming less and less fun.

(Not even fun for SCE players. This is slowly getting into 40k territory where half of the matches are Space Marines vs. Space Marines. Not to mention that they have to buy and learn new books and models all the time.)

[GeneralZero]

6 minutes ago, Aginor said:

I still don't like that they are making endless spells that are faction specific.

I'm with you on this one. I was happy to see magic available to eveyone.

And now, a big slap on your face: a box of 3 endless spells for each of new factions. This is a cold shower for me.

[Aginor]

7 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I'm with you on this one. I was happy to see magic available to eveyone.

And now, a big slap on your face: a box of 3 endless spells for each of new factions. This is a cold shower for me.

The good thing is: my usual SCE opponents will be so overwhelmed that they will never win against me.

That bad thing is: it isn't fun.

I'd like to play against their other armies again but who plays Ironjawz or Bonesplitterz or Goblins or Beastclaw when he has an SCE army now?

(Ok, the Nighthaunt stuff is great though, and at least Nagash can use all their spells).

Edit: ....and I guess I can kitbash me my own special Skink character and play it with the SCE warscrolls (as an ally) if I want to use them. Still not the same.

[Rob Ellis]

But surely the MS generic spells fit that exactly? Eventually everyone will have their time in the sun

[Aginor]

2 minutes ago, Rob Ellis said:

 Eventually everyone will have their time in the sun

If that were true we wouldn't have this conversation.

Edit: ok that sounded too grim. Let's say I doubt we will see that, the signs mostly say no.

[Ar-Pharazôn]

56 minutes ago, Aginor said:

If that were true we wouldn't have this conversation.

Edit: ok that sounded too grim. Let's say I doubt we will see that, the signs mostly say no.

If I had said to you a year ago that Nighthaunt and Daughters of Khaine were getting massive releases and battletomes, would you have believed me?

[Deadkitten]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

I'm with you on this one. I was happy to see magic available to eveyone.

And now, a big slap on your face: a box of 3 endless spells for each of new factions. This is a cold shower for me.

Agreed.  I was sort of on the fence about the MS box but went ahead and pulled the trigger and then this.  It sort of feels like throwing good money after bad and I'm seriously considering canceling my pre-order until I can see the Death one and then make a decision.

[Chikout]

The soul wars box was likely designed first, years before the battletomes  were written. They put whatever minis the could fit on the sprues. The individual boxes were probably designed later, and the matched play unit sizes were based off the contents of those kits. So asking them to put matched play unit sizes in Soul Wars is the wrong question. You should be asking gw to design plastic boxes to match the unit sizes in the soul wars box .

Anyway gw already has a solution. The box set comes with points . Just use those . Obviously this will probably not be accepted in tournaments but in any other situation it should be fine. Gw could easily faq this into become an official part of matched play. 

As for the Stormcast book and the dedicated endless spells, I don’t see the problem. At first glance none of these spells seem particularly better than those that come in the core set. They are a nice little extra that I probably won’t buy despite collecting both of these armies. Last year I was frustrated that the Stormcast and Khorne got an extra book, but this year we will have 6 battletomes in just over six months. It is highly likely that we are going to get at least one more book this year. That would make one of the most productive years ever for new fantasy releases. One Stormcast book out of 4 was annoying, but one Stormcast book out of 7 or 8 is much less of a problem. 

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

And what about all the potential new gamers they would love to attract with this pretty new set? I'm sure they are as thrilled as all the other Matched Play enthusiasts at the news of needing 2-3 boxes just to make a single legal unit size. 

They've designed the miniatures and aesthetics fantastically. They've marketed it well by all accounts. Why couldn't they just sit down with the rules/matched team and say "Ok, does anything in here not work well from the start - because for once we'd like to avoid a very avoidable fiasco." 

For all we know, maybe they have. Do we know that they are not going to provide options for these units in these sizes in Matched Play?

Honest question.

[AverageBoss]

5 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

that means that you know what are all the missing units/characters. So, what are they? That leads me to my second quistion:  where are the NH generic (non named char) Heavy hitters? (like a Dracothian or a Harbringer  those big elite units etc..)

I'd be super disapointed if all those new hero kits were single build only. They should be multi-kit! Look at the recent releases: Idoneth Deppkin are all multi kits.

 

The only hero  for whom we have not seen a scroll is the Dreadblade Harrow (cav hero). Keeping in mind that the Heroes in Soul Wars could have their warscrolls change in the Battletome (happened with almost every unit in the old starter, and has already happened with Sequitors in this one).

Other units whose scrolls we have not seen:

New Black Coach (now a 280 point behemoth).
Bladeghast Revenants (the ghosts with masks and chains)
Chainghasts (ghosts with twin flails)
Dreadscythe Herridons (banshees with scythes)

You can see pictures of all of them in this thread:

 

[Freejack02]

2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

For all we know, maybe they have. Do we know that they are not going to provide options for these units in these sizes in Matched Play?

Honest question.

Every statement from playtester and early release recipients has pointed to a very incomplete Matched Play package - in some cases to a simply bizarre degree. 4 NH Reaper models included, minimum matched unit size is 10?!?  Just... why? I have a hard time believing it's solely a cash grab - and I'm saddened to be rooting for inter-departmental incompetence over simple greed. 

[AverageBoss]

25 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Every statement from playtester and early release recipients has pointed to a very incomplete Matched Play package - in some cases to a simply bizarre degree. 4 NH Reaper models included, minimum matched unit size is 10?!?  Just... why? I have a hard time believing it's solely a cash grab - and I'm saddened to be rooting for inter-departmental incompetence over simple greed. 

Agreed. I also don't think its a cash grab, as its simply going to encourage more 3rd party sales, which does not make GW money.

Would not be an issue if we went back to ppm though, but that is obviously not happening. At the end of the day I and others are simply going to have to either buy some extra models from people that have them, but don't want them. Or toss 3 Sequitors, 2 Castigators, all 3 Evocators, 1 Stalker, and all 4 Reapers into the bin for bits harvesting.

[Skritt]

Some more granularity would be nice but also the enforced unit sizes are how they discount larger units. I do thing the minimum unit should match what is sold though

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

Every statement from playtester and early release recipients has pointed to a very incomplete Matched Play package - in some cases to a simply bizarre degree. 4 NH Reaper models included, minimum matched unit size is 10?!?  Just... why? I have a hard time believing it's solely a cash grab - and I'm saddened to be rooting for inter-departmental incompetence over simple greed. 

Yeah, I've seen those same posts, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm wondering if GW may have something up their sleeve to allow, for example, the 4 man reaper unit in Matched - something those posters/complainers may not have seen yet.

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

Agreed. I also don't think its a cash grab, as its simply going to encourage more 3rd party sales, which does not make GW money.

Would not be an issue if we went back to ppm though, but that is obviously not happening. At the end of the day I and others are simply going to have to either buy some extra models from people that have them, but don't want them. Or toss 3 Sequitors, 2 Castigators, all 3 Evocators, 1 Stalker, and all 4 Reapers into the bin for bits harvesting.

I don't think it is time to panic just yet.

The soul wars box contains points based on the unusual unit sizes. 

GW just has to come out and say that the ghb/ battletomes don't overrule these particular profiles and there is no problem. Alternatively if they think the points need updating they can just write 5 new points profiles entitled soul wars evocators  etc and again there is no problem. 

I really hope GW does this. It is such an easy fix. 

[Skreech Verminking]

13 hours ago, Sleboda said:

In curious about this. I watched a review of 2.0 yesterday, and the guy kept referring to the "mistakes" GW made with the units sizes and point costs, and how they will need to "fix" it.

I don't get it.

The stuff in the Soul Wars set is fine as is. What's wrong with the unit sizes?

Maybe he meant units like the stormvermin, which had in the Gh 2017 a unit size of 40rats and costed 140/500points.

the update for the stormvermins shrank the unit size to 30 but kept the point value by 140/500.

which would mean that, instead of getting a point reduction (since a unit of 30stormvermin would cost normally without any reductions 420points),

you now have to pay 80points extra, to play them in a full squad of 30rats.

[PlasticCraic]

6 hours ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:

If I had said to you a year ago that Nighthaunt and Daughters of Khaine were getting massive releases and battletomes, would you have believed me?

If I had said to you 2 years ago that the BCR Battletome (with no new models) would be the last release for GA Destruction for an entire edition, would you have believed me?

[Enoby]

Commenting on endless spells being faction specific, in one way I don't like it as it power creeps the two new factions and buries a lot of battletome-less (or outdated battletomed) armies even further into obscurity. In another way, I think we've seen this done in a similar way before in the form of things like Sylvaneth Wildwoods, Feculant Gnarlmaws, and the ship who's name escapes me. In their own way they are a bit like non-predatory endless spells - models in an army which are not part of a unit but help the faction they belong to while hindering the opponent. I'm not sure if these endless spells will be any more meta-defining than the aforementioned scenery. I think the thing I'm most worried about is that Stormcast disk being like the old balewind vortex but restricted to one faction.  

That said, I really hope that GW start releasing battletomes quickly for armies they don't plan to release models for anytime soon; the general's handbook was a nice start, but it doesn't live up to a full battletome. 

[Nevvermore]

The new edition has made non-Battletome armies A LOT more viable. You get the best Endless Spells (the faction specific ones we've seen aren't nearly as good as, say, the Spellportal) and you get a boatload of new realm artefacts. You now have more options than any of the Battletome armies had in 1st edition. Being disappointed that you didn't get AS much as the Battletome factions is missing the forest for the trees.

[Enoby]

3 minutes ago, Nevvermore said:

The new edition has made non-Battletome armies A LOT more viable. You get the best Endless Spells (the faction specific ones we've seen aren't nearly as good as, say, the Spellportal) and you get a boatload of new realm artefacts. You now have more options than any of the Battletome armies had in 1st edition. Being disappointed that you didn't get AS much as the Battletome factions is missing the forest for the trees.

For some armies, I agree that they have improved (including my own, I should add). However, others with a very low caster count (if any casters at all) or very few points to spare on their list are still going to struggle. 

In one way, I agree that we shouldn't look past what battletomeless armies did get - many of them were helped a lot. But, I do think that a difference in power is an issue that I hope GW addresses soon. 

[Mayple]

29 minutes ago, Enoby said:

For some armies, I agree that they have improved (including my own, I should add). However, others with a very low caster count (if any casters at all) or very few points to spare on their list are still going to struggle. 

In one way, I agree that we shouldn't look past what battletomeless armies did get - many of them were helped a lot. But, I do think that a difference in power is an issue that I hope GW addresses soon. 

Lack of casters, or a low caster count, should really only be an issue if one intends to compete in the magic phase; and if one wanted to do that, they're playing the wrong faction if they do not currently have a mage.

Magic is not required to compete. It is simply another tool one can invest in, and not investing in it means you will invest in others aspects of the game instead.

[AlphaKennyThing]

If it helps, the GW manager near me said that the plan is to release more small kits and then two larger ones for each faction that are direct additions to the Soul Wars box. It wouldn't surprise me if there were 6 Reapers in the NH one!

[Jamopower]

44 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Lack of casters, or a low caster count, should really only be an issue if one intends to compete in the magic phase; and if one wanted to do that, they're playing the wrong faction if they do not currently have a mage.

Magic is not required to compete. It is simply another tool one can invest in, and not investing in it means you will invest in others aspects of the game instead.

But if the reasoning behind the non-battletome armies getting better is to get access to new spells, then leaving magic aside should make the non-battletome armies actually worse than before, as the armies with access to good wizards get better (or at least have more choice)?

To be honest, I don't think wizards are going to be helped very much by the endless spells if they don't have any sort of casting buffs or other synergies. Having a say collegiate arcane wizard in you army and pay the increased cost, pay the endless spell and then try to cast it without it getting dispelled from across the board, is not going to give you very good returns.