Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[mhsellwood]

16 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Yeah and since damage*atk is interchangeable if the to hit and to wound are the same. It basicly just makes the harpoon thing better because it has longer range.

yep - only difference is if you have access to buffs that enhance attacks or damage - if you have +1 attack, the damage stat is more important, if you have +1 damage, the attack stat is more important. At this point then, agreed the net is straight up a worse choice. Down the track? support pieces can make a big difference to this assessment.

[hughwyeth]

Not sure if this has been asked before- this being an army without a start collecting box makes it quite expensive to start building a force! Anyone know how long it normally takes for a new force to get one? How long was it before Kharadron got one?

[christophe]

if I am correct, KO were release in April last year , then for Christmas we got a big box (approx. 120$ ?) then few months later a start collecting box. I will be waiting as well. as I want a bit of everything

[annarborhawk]

14 hours ago, mhsellwood said:

 

I could see a spot in the army for a single allopex though to open the Leviadon focussed battalion, but not sure how potent the battalion is at yet.

 

It's a 100 pt. Battalion - 1 Leviadon, 2-4 akhelian guard, 1-2 allopexes. The rule is a bit unclear. It reads: "once per phase, you can re-roll one hit, wound, save, run, or charge roll for one unit from this battalion that is wholly within 12" of the Akhelian Leviadon from this battalion when the re-roll is made." 

So if you use it re-roll to hit, for example, is that a single dice from the to-hit roll? or is it all the to-hit roll dice for one unit?  If it's the former, the rule does not make taking the Allopex to get the battalion worth it. But if it's the later, and I can roll all the to-hits on a big unit of Morrsaar or something, then maybe I can find a competitive rationalization for taking a  flying shark with blades on its fins and soul-hunting dark aelves with  harpoon launchers on its back.  I mean, how could you not want that in your army? 

 

EDIT: (I guess also if it's just one dice, you could use it for the Allopex's ferocious bite . . . . letting you wait to see if you need it for the to-hit or to-wound is kind of nice).

 

2d EDIT: (Also, if you use Fuethan Enclave the mounts re-roll 1's to-wound . . . so that and the battalion pretty well ensures you get the ferocious bit in, and if you make Volturnos your general, you get 2 bites. . . . so I'm reaching I know, but maybe I can squint hard enough and justify it.)

[annarborhawk]

On 4/17/2018 at 4:23 PM, Cam3lot said:

Another factor that concerns me is that the heaviest hitting unit in the book, the leviadon, is bordering on prohibitively expensive when you consider you'll also want to take the almost mandatory Aspect of the Sea. I think we're also lacking in units with decent rend and the attacks to put that to good use.

I think the Leviadon's 12" cover aura ability is being undervalued. That's a huge area of moving cover. 

[AverageBoss]

3 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

Not sure if this has been asked before- this being an army without a start collecting box makes it quite expensive to start building a force! Anyone know how long it normally takes for a new force to get one? How long was it before Kharadron got one?

Seems to be completely random. KO have one already (after close to a year), neither Disciples of Tzeentch nor Thousand Sons have one and they came out quite a bit before.

[hughwyeth]

25 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Seems to be completely random. KO have one already (after close to a year), neither Disciples of Tzeentch nor Thousand Sons have one and they came out quite a bit before.

I think only Khorne have mortal big boxes anyway. Nurgle don't have one and their mortals have been out since before AoS.  I imagine they're wanting to make as much money from individual boxes before releasing it, perhaps 3 or 4 months after the final release? It's funny having to start an army with individual boxes rather than a SC box. Shows how good and how successful the SC boxes are I guess. 

[Requizen]

Got to flip through the book yesterday from a friend who got it early. I'm... whelmed? Here's my impression: The Namarti and all the mounts (including the Turtle) are fairly middling statlines. The Heroes, especially the Eidolon and the King, are really good beatsticks well worth their costs, and the support Heroes are quite good. It seems to be an army very much built around your non-Heroes just providing cover via the Battle Trait and sitting on Objectives while the Heroes run around and kick face as best they can. The shooting Namarti are pretty terrible all around imo, and the Shark is probably the worst unit in the book. The Turtle gives a nice buff if you cluster around it but is fairly meh overall imo. Still, I think you can make a pretty competitive army with proper positioning and board movement, so I'm interested to see what people come up with.

[Austin]

According to leaks on War of Sigmar the Thralls do get a points reduction at max level. It’s a pic from the battletome so pretty accurate  

I think I’ve seen multiple sources saying they get no reduction, so just be aware bad info is floating around (see what I did there). 

[Acid_Nine]

Honestly I'm excited to get this army started despite some flaws. Aquatic themes have been a favorite of mine, (heck, almost every DnD character I made was from a coastal town come to think of it) and despite the large lack of rend and elite nature I think this will be an amazing army to play. I just hope I can get enough for a 1,000 point army in due time, but for now I'm excited to see how these guys play, warts and all.

So I've been thinking of another list based around a general theme of eel riders and here's what I got:

High King Voltunous

Soulscryer (or another tidecaster)

Tidecaster

Leviadon

x6 spear ells

x6 spear eels (in reserve, either in 2 groups of 3 or as one big group)

x6 Sheelds

x3 Sheelds

- 80 points of something for allies

So got some outflank, cover and magical support, and plenty of hardy hitters and blockers. Depending on set up I outflank a big unit of 6 and a squad of 3 shields and have the rest on the table, or start with everything on the table. I have been slowly convinced eels are better than sharks no matter how sad that makes me.  80 points may be spent on birbs or some corsair chariots or something.  Tide casters will have either the -1 to hit spell if they can take a different form of it, or the shield spell for more coverage.

Edit 2: Also, since tidecaster have a signature spell of -1 to hit I may feel safer taking the re-roll charge enclave with that -1 rend spell if I take two tide casters,  compared to the ones that only do re-rolls of 1. I dunno, I may have to play around with them more.

[rwrightni]

So now lots of independant retailers have the battletomb out already does anyone have screens of the formations and the houses or enclaves (whatever they are called)? 

[Hoseman]

Anyone knows if this week they will release something else than reavers and king? I read it will going to be 3 idoneth weeks so I think it's a poor week of release compared with last one. It's true last one was 2 heroes and one unit but they came with ship, book, dices and that so this saturday only two boxes I see it a bit low... leaving next week with turtle, allopex, eels and 3 heroes...

btw, Im the only one that will use reavers? Sincerely I don't wanna use allys for this army, I found it beautiful and maybe I will make some battles with a mixed Sylvaneth and Idoneth but just to use AoSea, Allariele and Treelord Ancient in the same team and see what happens. So I have planned to buy everything instead turtle by now and with 2 boxes of eels will be maybe 1'5k points so not bad, but I'm thinking on getting more thralls as I like them and maybe more reavers to run and shoot on turn 2 behind eels. I think they can be nice, and are beautiful

[annarborhawk]

1 hour ago, rwrightni said:

So now lots of independant retailers have the battletomb out already does anyone have screens of the formations and the houses or enclaves (whatever they are called)? 

Got it.

 

Ionrach - add 1 to casting and unbinding. Allied units get Tides of Death benefiit.

Dhom-Hain - reroll 1's to hit on turn charged; reroll fail wounds vs. monsters.

Fuethan - reroll1's to hit on Flood tide turn; ebb tide becomes 2nd flood tide; reroll wounds for mounts

Mor'phann - lurelight +3 to  # models returned!;  Freezing mist spell (move de-buff - unit only piles in 1")

Nautilar - reroll hits if target charged you, protective barrier spell (combat debuff - worsen rend by 1)

Briomdar - can teleport 3 units instead of 2; nonflying units move as if flying (except over enemy models)

 

IMO Fuethan best for Akhelian-based armies, which look like they will be the way to go

Ionarch if you plan to go with allies

Morphann if you go thrall/reavier heavy

[annarborhawk]

1 hour ago, rwrightni said:

So now lots of independant retailers have the battletomb out already does anyone have screens of the formations and the houses or enclaves (whatever they are called)? 

frankly none of the battalions look that good: 

Royal council - grants +3" move (like they need it).

Akhelian Corps - grants reroll of one dice (hit, wound, save, run, or charge) per phase.

Namarti Corps - auto returns 3 models with lurelight.

Phalanx - requires multiple other battalions so won't fit in reasonably sized game.

Alliance of wood and sea - uses Syvaneth SC box - they get benefit of tides of death.

 

 

[Drofnum]

9 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

frankly none of the battalions look that good: 

Royal council - grants +3" move (like they need it).

Akhelian Corps - grants reroll of one dice (hit, wound, save, run, or charge) per phase.

Namarti Corps - auto returns 3 models with lurelight.

Phalanx - requires multiple other battalions so won't fit in reasonably sized game.

Alliance of wood and sea - uses Syvaneth SC box - they get benefit of tides of death.

 

 

Namarti Corps in a Mor'Phann list might be pretty good if you go Thrall heavy and get 3 or so heroes to return models. 6 models returned per hero would make death ressing look weak

[Soulsmith]

I just want to see the enclave colour schemes now.

[Barkanaut]

Kha-Morr an young Akhellian King who has only recently  proven himself with his cautious and diplomatic nature. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/19/the-akhelian-king-name-generator-apr-19gw-homepage-post-1/

[Austin]

2 hours ago, Drofnum said:

Namarti Corps in a Mor'Phann list might be pretty good if you go Thrall heavy and get 3 or so heroes to return models. 6 models returned per hero would make death ressing look weak

I wonder if they will make it clear that you can only use Lurelight on a unit one time.  Otherwise, I agree with you, that Thrall spam list looks pretty cool.  They aren't chaff by any measure and bringing them back will be great.

[annarborhawk]

53 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

I wonder if they will make it clear that you can only use Lurelight on a unit one time.  Otherwise, I agree with you, that Thrall spam list looks pretty cool.  They aren't chaff by any measure and bringing them back will be great.

I hear ya.  But I am NOT turning this into a horde army.  Especially not with all that trim to paint. 

Painting 60 Blood Reavers is not something I ever want to do again. 

 

[Drofnum]

55 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

I wonder if they will make it clear that you can only use Lurelight on a unit one time.  Otherwise, I agree with you, that Thrall spam list looks pretty cool.  They aren't chaff by any measure and bringing them back will be great.

Even if they do, having the ability to use it on 2-3 different units per round is pretty strong as well if you get them all in to combat.  Think about doing that round 3 where you get to go first in all combats and ressing anything that died in the first turn to just attack first again in the second turn. It has some interesting possibilities at least, not sure if its worth it but interesting.

[Austin]

 

7 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

I hear ya.  But I am NOT turning this into a horde army.  Especially not with all that trim to paint. 

Painting 60 Blood Reavers is not something I ever want to do again. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Even if they do, having the ability to use it on 2-3 different units per round is pretty strong as well if you get them all in to combat.  Think about doing that round 3 where you get to go first in all combats and ressing anything that died in the first turn to just attack first again in the second turn. It has some interesting possibilities at least, not sure if its worth it but interesting.

Totally agree it will be strong no matter what.  And yes it will take a certain amount of willpower I am not sure I have (pretty sure I don't have in fact) to get a fully painted horde army on the table.  I will likely try a minimum sized Namarti Corps to start.

[BillyOcean]

5 hours ago, Hoseman said:

Im the only one that will use reavers?

I'll use them. They are not stellar or anything, but I think they are fine in Fuethan. Two turns of running and shooting while rerolling 1s is not bad! As long as  they can be kept out of combat by their eel friends, I think they can play a support/objective holding role just fine. 

[Luke1705]

What do you guys think about 2 sea aspects? I know they’re expensive but those spells are all so good

[Sactownbri]

10 hours ago, Hoseman said:

Anyone knows if this week they will release something else than reavers and king?

The art card is 1/5. I think there will be 5 weeks for this army release. Also I’m going to use reavers and allopex’s. Not really understanding the hate. Maxmin on an army gets too one dimensional play style for me. Easy enough to play but also very easy to figure out. My gaming group is starting a new build and we are going warhost. When I’m done I’ll have everything for ID. I plan to outflank my two Allopex just because it will be funny as hell and if I also get some blood in the water with the soulscryers ghost fish that’s just more silly fun telling a wild story of land shark magic winning the day.

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

What do you guys think about 2 sea aspects? I know they’re expensive but those spells are all so good

I personally don't think so??? After some mental hoops. 

So 1 sea is good because that one can take Steed of Tides, allow you to throw out -1 to hit and bravery turn 1 should you need to, or throw out some mortal wounds (but more than likely -1 to hit).  The Steed of tides also lets the aspect act as a powerful objective grabbing tool as needed. 

So then we go to what the 2nd one is going to do?? The damage/heal spell is alittle meh?? Arcane missle gets you there damage wise, and you could get the same healing with a soul scryer or tide caller using the ritual??? In fact more and better healing.   Not to mention you now lose out on the turn 1 affect on the model. So its quite possible if you go first that your 2nd aspect of the seas won't do much more than mystic shield on turn 1. Again a spell better off given to a tidecaller.  A decent arguement could be made for that sniper spell that does more damage the further away you, but i think with the aspect's price tag, at some point you might want to get the middle out there to start mixing it up. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Requizen said:

Got to flip through the book yesterday from a friend who got it early. I'm... whelmed? Here's my impression: The Namarti and all the mounts (including the Turtle) are fairly middling statlines. The Heroes, especially the Eidolon and the King, are really good beatsticks well worth their costs, and the support Heroes are quite good. It seems to be an army very much built around your non-Heroes just providing cover via the Battle Trait and sitting on Objectives while the Heroes run around and kick face as best they can. The shooting Namarti are pretty terrible all around imo, and the Shark is probably the worst unit in the book. The Turtle gives a nice buff if you cluster around it but is fairly meh overall imo. Still, I think you can make a pretty competitive army with proper positioning and board movement, so I'm interested to see what people come up with.

The heros are killy but i think offensive eels are alot more so?? 

140 pts of offensive eels vs 4+ save generic:
on charge 5.18 +2.66= .056 (dmg/pts)
No charge 1.55 +2.66= 0.030 (dmg/pts)
Kings buffs on charge 8.64 + 5.44=.101 (dmg/Pts)

King vs 4+ generic
on charge 3.88 + .58 +1.04 +1.55 +1.66 (mortals from charge)= .029 (dmg/Pts)
No charge 2.59 + .58 + 1.04 + 1.55= .024
Kings buffs/charge/high tide traits/ hateful spite potion: 12.15 + 1.94 +3.24 +4.86= .092
 

Aspect of the storm as a beat stick cuts less mustard than the king coming in at .018 dmg/pts

Then aspect of the sea is a wizard with varied and mixed potential, but definitly more of a support pieace or long term damage via maelstorm.

So i see the characters as being more support, and coming out to really part on turn 3 where they can do so abit safely. 

It's all quite interesting though as you say, and positioning will be pretty big for them.  Which is good and bad. Good because they fly and move super fast. Abit bad in a change host meta where you quickly run out of space to do much ig any moving.