The age of hope is dead....

[HorticulusTGA]

43 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

My memory was indeed incorrect:

“It had been almost a century since the Gates of Azyr had been flung open and Sigmar’s storm had raged forth to reclaim the mortal realms” Excerpt From Eight Lamentations: Spear of Shadows (Chapter 2)

Thank you for the check ! So we can safely assume that Malign Portents, the "death of hope", will take place around 100 years after the beginning of the Realmagate Wars. 

[Chikout]

I really this is a very clever troll by GW.

I find I am so excited I can barely hold a thought in my head. I think it is the excitement only an Aos fan can feel. An Aos fan at the start of a long journey who conclusion is uncertain.  I hope I can get some new battletomes. I hope to buy new minis and paint them. I hope the new minis are as cool as they have been in my dreams. 

I hope...

 

' the age of hope is dead' 

Get busy living or get busy DYING!!!!! 

[PlasticCraic]

6 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Yes ! (BTW I love this "Reclaimed" concept, the cities of Ordre are multicultural/racial, united and all, but there is still contempt from Men and Aleves form Azyr towards the other survivors of the Age of Chaos). 

Callis is from City Of Secrets, tho - is Warpgnaw form Spear of Shadow ?

I read City of Secrets, but I remember (being confused by) the reference to beings from Azyr being contemptuous towards natives of other Realms (or something along those lines?).  TBH I didn't fully understand it, and I think that's because I'm not fully across the Realmgate Wars narrative.  Please can you explain a bit more about this and put it in context for me?

[Carnelian]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I read City of Secrets, but I remember (being confused by) the reference to beings from Azyr being contemptuous towards natives of other Realms (or something along those lines?).  TBH I didn't fully understand it, and I think that's because I'm not fully across the Realmgate Wars narrative.  Please can you explain a bit more about this and put it in context for me?

I think it's just good old fashioned feelings of cultural superiority - like how city dwellers might look down upon country folk

[RuneBrush]

8 hours ago, bonzai said:

A minor complaint I've had with the lore is that it has pretty much all been Order and Chaos.  I understand why that is, but Death and Destruction are supposed to be major players in the fate of the realms. They have not been portrayed this way. Nagash has had his teeth kicked in and has been hiding in his realm. His only outside presence has been the flesh eater courts that have fled his realms and aren' under his control. Destruction  has a little more representation, but it has been random and too mindless. It needs more direction and purpose. Gork and Mork should have something they are after other than fighting anything and everything. It's been real hard to consider them anything more than a threat on their own plane, not a realms level threat.

Hopefully this campaign will let death show that it is a force to be reckoed with, and the other hits don't always steal Nagash's lunch money.

Oh, and I really want there to be 2 heralds of destruction. The Herald of Mork needs to be a grot with a very tall and impressive hat.

I think some of the issue is that the focus has been on just a few realms.  Death and Destruction have largely not been affecting those realms as much as Order and Chaos.  With luck malign portents will either bring some of the other realms into play a bit more or bring Death and Destruction into the realms we've been focusing on.

[HorticulusTGA]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I read City of Secrets, but I remember (being confused by) the reference to beings from Azyr being contemptuous towards natives of other Realms (or something along those lines?).  TBH I didn't fully understand it, and I think that's because I'm not fully across the Realmgate Wars narrative.  Please can you explain a bit more about this and put it in context for me?

Well, the story is that during the Realmgate wars, the armies of Azyr (men, aelves, duardin, etc. following the Stormhosts's first strikes) started to resettle the Mortal realms, and in the process recovering the scattered human tribes that survived the Age of Chaos, and incorporating them in the population of the new settlements. Those people are the "Reclaimed", as opposed to the "pure blood" azyrites (the Warhammer Quest : Shadow Over Hammerhal rulebook has good background about that too).

The problem is that 1. the people of Azyr kept their culture and civilisation while the folks of the Realms regressed, and 2. some in Azyr even find suspicious that other humans survived in the Chaos corrupted Realms for this long...

I really like this narrative bit because it adds realism and depth (IMO) to the Order side of things, i.e. the Order people are initially presented as a united force fighting against Chaos, but in fact, even if the Order people have to cooperate, there is always strife between men, duardin and aelves, even amongst the same people, and Chaos can play on that (like Chaos always does).

Now Malign Portents will add more "grim dark" to the setting, I really think it's fine, if it is just another part of the story, not the whole story. But I don't see Nagash destroying all that Sigmar has built in a century, so there will always be hope (or Nagash attacks Azyrheim and we are all f******).

BTW ; do you think we'll have another "portent" today, in 2 hours and 55 minutes ?

[JReynolds]

7 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

I think it's just good old fashioned feelings of cultural superiority - like how city dwellers might look down upon country folk

Pretty much. Though part of it's also good old fashioned colonial imperialism.  Too, some in Azyr feel that the inhabitants of the other realms are tainted in some way, or inferior.  After all, if they'd been worthy of saving, Sigmar would have saved them, surely? 

[HorticulusTGA]

2 minutes ago, JReynolds said:

Pretty much. Though part of it's also good old fashioned colonial imperialism.  Too, some in Azyr feel that the inhabitants of the other realms are tainted in some way, or inferior.  After all, if they'd been worthy of saving, Sigmar would have saved them, surely? 

It's pretty interesting you use the words "colonial imperialism" (as some people did to describe the foundation of the first cities of Sigmar) because 1. Empire are cool, 2. it shows the political, practical side of fighting in an epic age of unending magical wars, and 3. it gives an "exotic" and a "survivalist" feel to the action of Order's armies, trying to settle worlds full of mortal dangers (and I loved the Lustria campaigns in the Old world, the town of Skeggi,etc.).

[JReynolds]

24 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

It's pretty interesting you use the words "colonial imperialism" (as some people did to describe the foundation of the first cities of Sigmar) because 1. Empire are cool, 2. it shows the political, practical side of fighting in an epic age of unending magical wars, and 3. it gives an "exotic" and a "survivalist" feel to the action of Order's armies, trying to settle worlds full of mortal dangers (and I loved the Lustria campaigns in the Old world, the town of Skeggi,etc.).

That's always been my take on it, at least. It might change, when/if we ever get a Freeguilds battletome, but the idea of cities being carved out by what are essentially a cooperative of mercenary concerns (Freeguilds, Ironweld, Dispossesed, etc.) during a multi-dimensional Reconquista is fascinating to me.  

If I ever get to write that Freeguild novel, I want to really dig into the political/practical stuff, and explore what it takes to settle a city, and how people from Azyr react to some of the wilder reaches of the other realms. 

[Charles]

26 minutes ago, JReynolds said:

If I ever get to write that Freeguild novel, I want to really dig into the political/practical stuff, and explore what it takes to settle a city, and how people from Azyr react to some of the wilder reaches of the other realms. 

There is lots of good recent historical material to draw from. 

You could use social studies on the difficulties of German Reunification in the early 90’s, and the impact of EU expansionism into the countries from the former USSR. 

[JReynolds]

16 minutes ago, Charles said:

There is lots of good recent historical material to draw from. 

You could use social studies on the difficulties of German Reunification in the early 90’s, and the impact of EU expansionism into the countries from the former USSR. 

There's lots of history to draw from, really. Venetian expansion in the 10th century, conflict along the Silk Road, British imperialism in the 18th and 19th centuries, the Great Game, etc. 

Except with zombies. Lots and lots of zombies. 

[Inqy]

Heh, Freeguild as East India Company complete with semi-mercenary armies from across the different realms would be a really, really interesting take on them.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

48 minutes ago, JReynolds said:

There's lots of history to draw from, really. Venetian expansion in the 10th century, conflict along the Silk Road, British imperialism in the 18th and 19th centuries, the Great Game, etc. 

Except with zombies. Lots and lots of zombies. 

The Silk Road sounds like an exceptional inspiration for the premise of an AOS. I can imagine Azyr traders or a mercenary company going to a city in Ghur, Ghyran or Chamon acting like fish out of water as they try to comprehend these 'savage' people and their cultures

[Twitch of Izalith]

All Hope is Gone \m/ - was my first thought when I saw GW's email for this yesterday  

Enjoyed the video snippet though - really out of character for the mortal realms so far - very Gothic and old world like. It would be cool if they just extend it by a few seconds every day until release

As for what the releases will be - My wish list:

A new starter set with Death Rattle and Whatever Dark Elves have become now. 

A campaign set covering Shyish & Ulgu.

ORDER - A Demon Primarch sized Malerion model that looks kinda like an Avatar of Khaine with Dragon Wings.

DEATH - A reimagined wight regiment (except called something thats IP protectable of course) - I want stormcast sized models with skull faces, tattered robes, dragon wing helms, corroded weapons, baroque armour.

CHAOS - I would like Morathi to return from the realm of chaos as a Demon Queen of Slaanesh and the first Goddess of Chaos ( I think its important women are represented so an evil manipulative harpy that uses her looks, lies and treachery to get what she wants seems perfect  )

DESTRUCTION - Frost Giants! they've seen Game of thrones right? 

I i even get one of those i will be shocked to be honest.

[firebat]

10 hours ago, bonzai said:

A minor complaint I've had with the lore is that it has pretty much all been Order and Chaos.  I understand why that is, but Death and Destruction are supposed to be major players in the fate of the realms. They have not been portrayed this way. Nagash has had his teeth kicked in and has been hiding in his realm. His only outside presence has been the flesh eater courts that have fled his realms and aren' under his control. Destruction  has a little more representation, but it has been random and too mindless. It needs more direction and purpose. Gork and Mork should have something they are after other than fighting anything and everything. It's been real hard to consider them anything more than a threat on their own plane, not a realms level threat.

Hopefully this campaign will let death show that it is a force to be reckoed with, and the other hits don't always steal Nagash's lunch money.

Oh, and I really want there to be 2 heralds of destruction. The Herald of Mork needs to be a grot with a very tall and impressive hat.

My thought has been that in naming them all Grand Alliances it has given people the misapprehension that Death and Destruction are somehow equals of Order and Chaos when it comes to the setting when that simply isn't the case.  Death are the only supposed Grand Alliance that came from a single army book before and i'd be surprised if they made up a quarter of fantasy's sales. Ultimately Nagash might have been a big player in creating the undead but in a funny way his story has always been one of a comedy villain who gets slapped down time and again and spent the rest of his time twirling his boney mustache in hiding biding his time for something. Conflict with the undead has always been a very human centered conflict. I'll ignore the Tomb Kings but the Vampires were always just a thorn in the side of the Empire and Bretonnia and certainly not world ending in the way that it took the Empire, Elves and Lizardmen constant attention to stop Chaos from destroying the world. The same is true now. The story is the major fight of Chaos vs the mortal races with Nagash's arrogance probably the bigger player than Nagash is himself. He thinks he should be a big threat. He thinks everyone should be subservient to him but ultimately he's just never been good enough.

I disagree about Destruction too. In their own ways Death and Destruction are their own Order and Chaos with undead being a very hard order under the ever unchanging command of Nagash and Destruction being the nomadic horde that doesn't seek to build, only to roam to fight and consume. The reason Destruction isn't Chaos is because it is random and mindless

[firebat]

Double post. Not sure how to delete

[Twitch of Izalith]

@firebat well said. Its human nature to want the stuff that we like to have equal importance with the stuff other people like though so I doubt it will change anyone's attitude much!

[Mikester1487]

So azyr is Britian and the mortal realms her colonies.  I expect a George Washington freeguild hero wielding a heavenly forged musket in 2018.    Sorry after seeing the historical comparisons I couldn't help myself.  

I'm glad there's a lot of excitement for this and am hoping death and destruction get their time in the light.  Nagash seems to be a really good antagonist for this new age.

 

[Arkiham]

6 hours ago, firebat said:

My thought has been that in naming them all Grand Alliances it has given people the misapprehension that Death and Destruction are somehow equals of Order and Chaos when it comes to the setting when that simply isn't the case.  Death are the only supposed Grand Alliance that came from a single army book before and i'd be surprised if they made up a quarter of fantasy's sales. Ultimately Nagash might have been a big player in creating the undead but in a funny way his story has always been one of a comedy villain who gets slapped down time and again and spent the rest of his time twirling his boney mustache in hiding biding his time for something. Conflict with the undead has always been a very human centered conflict. I'll ignore the Tomb Kings but the Vampires were always just a thorn in the side of the Empire and Bretonnia and certainly not world ending in the way that it took the Empire, Elves and Lizardmen constant attention to stop Chaos from destroying the world. The same is true now. The story is the major fight of Chaos vs the mortal races with Nagash's arrogance probably the bigger player than Nagash is himself. He thinks he should be a big threat. He thinks everyone should be subservient to him but ultimately he's just never been good enough.

I disagree about Destruction too. In their own ways Death and Destruction are their own Order and Chaos with undead being a very hard order under the ever unchanging command of Nagash and Destruction being the nomadic horde that doesn't seek to build, only to roam to fight and consume. The reason Destruction isn't Chaos is because it is random and mindless

this is such a good explanation its incredible I've not seen it before 

[TheOtherJosh]

As a side note:

The interactions between Azyrites and those who aren’t was expanded upon nicely in the “Eight Lamentations: The Spear of Shadows” one of the main characters happens to be one.

There is a much better feel for the world building (and non-Stormcast as the main hero storyline) ... in both of the recent books by Josh Reynolds (Disclaimer: No relation ... not all of us ‘Josh’ folks are related ...  ) I recommend reading his short Story “Auction Of Blood” before “Spear of Shadows.”

[Menkeroth]

This is true. AoS, as 40k, is about mostly Order vs Chaos and we have to settle for that, but even then Death and Destruction are not just minor nuisances. Especially the orks and to lesser extent ogres. 

[bonzai]

17 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

This is true. AoS, as 40k, is about mostly Order vs Chaos and we have to settle for that, but even then Death and Destruction are not just minor nuisances. Especially the orks and to lesser extent ogres. 

Yeah. Using 40k as the example, it is mostly about chaos and the imperium, but factions like Nids and Orks are galactic threats that could wipe out everything else as well.

With heralds coming it is a perfect time to build up the threat of another great waaagh. Gordrak becoming fist of Gork is a portent of it, but it has been refrenced that there are several more. Key characters in Destruction need to be actively worfking to bring about this great apocalyptic waaagh. 

Nagash needs to show why he is a boss, and take back his own realm to start. Then he needs to start expanding foot holds into the other realms. I would love to see more Mortarchs actively leading invasions. 8 seems to be a key number in AoS. Eight realms, 8 incarnates, etc.. I wouldn't mind seeing up to 8 mortarchs. I wouldn't mind 8 chaos gods for that matter either... (I want Morghur back as a new chaos god of mutation and corruption and in charge of beastmen/chaos beasts). Already incarnates and Chaos gods seem to be pairing off to fight over various realms, let the mortarchs also get in the mix.

[Killax]

I really like this small spoiler video too.

I assume this topic is about the Malign Portents stuff right?

Cheers,

[flamingwalnut]

With the Dread Fleet in Firestorm....perhaps they might become an actual faction in themselves? If they did a "Mini Grand Alliance", like a faction that contains handfuls of other factions, the Dread Fleet certainly works and could be a great addition to Death. Ghost ships and zombie pirates? Certainly a new take on the aesthetic... 

[bsharitt]

I'm not opposed to the idea of a nautical death faction in general, but seeing the a pretty "standard" looking 18thish century ship right our of Pirates of the Caribbean isn't filling me with too much enthusiasm.