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Here is the new thread for discussing Disciples of Tzeentch. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Disciples of Tzeentch in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section. But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/5998-lets-chat-disciples-of-tzeentch/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

 

 

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My list before AoS2 had 2x10 Acolytes in it, and with the point reductioin I'm using it as an excuse to get even more into my list - the models are great (even if they are poor in-game)

I'm thinking of running a list like this -  not settled on spells/traits/items yet as I want to know if the Realm choices are actually viable for Tzeentch first.

Ogroid Thaumaturge - 180

Tzaangor Shaman - 180

Curseling - 160

Magister - 140

20 Acolytes - 160

20 Acolytes - 160

20 Tzaangors - 360

9 Enlightened Tzaangors - 480

Battlation - Witchfyre Coven - 120

Endless Spell - Spellportal - 60

Probably an incredibly weak list! I could swap the Endless Spell and 3 Enlightened to get 3 Skyfires to add some ranged potency. This is more of a casual list though - I intend to use Summoning Points (however they work...?) to summon Flamers and Exalted Flamers if possible to really double down on that fire theme. Ideally this would be a Pyrofane Cult but that isn't happening in 2000 points!

 

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I've been thinking about what use slaves to darkness and mortal tzeench lists can get out of the new summoning rules. The list I've been slowly building to will have around 4-5 casting attempts per turn so unless I face a magic heavy opponent I figure I won't get 10 fate points until turn 3 or so which seems lacklustre though I guess a free unit to hold objectives or screen for a turn isn't bad.

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1 hour ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I've been thinking about what use slaves to darkness and mortal tzeench lists can get out of the new summoning rules. The list I've been slowly building to will have around 4-5 casting attempts per turn so unless I face a magic heavy opponent I figure I won't get 10 fate points until turn 3 or so which seems lacklustre though I guess a free unit to hold objectives or screen for a turn isn't bad.

Check out the old thread, we have played with the idea a little bit.

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Yeah. Assuming FSWB allows the additional casts of Arcane Bolt, you'll be able to rack up the Fate points reasonably quickly. Also the Curseling will be an absolute beast in AoS 2. Why bother paying for your own Endless spells when you can just steal your opponents? This is what I'm currently toying with, both being powerful but only using models I like aesthetically.

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist 
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Artefact: Souldraught 
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Fatemaster (120)
Sayl The Faithless (120)
- Allies
27 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Fatesworn Warband (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000 

Edited by SpiritofHokuto

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Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch - 180
Magister (x3) - 140
Ogroid - 180
Curseling - 160

Acolytes 10 (x4) - 80
Pink Horrors - 10 x 2 - 200

FSWB - 160
Spell portal - 60
Balewind - 40 
Geminids - 40
Shackles - 20

Is what I plan to try with FSWB.

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1 minute ago, AaronWIlson said:

Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch - 180
Magister (x3) - 140
Ogroid - 180
Curseling - 160

Acolytes 10 (x4) - 80
Pink Horrors - 10 x 2 - 200

FSWB - 160
Spell portal - 60
Balewind - 40 
Geminids - 40
Shackles - 20

Is what I plan to try with FSWB.

That is a terrifying amount of spell power to be sure. Aren't you a bit concerned that your units are pretty flimsy and will only offer up token resistance? 

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30 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

That is a terrifying amount of spell power to be sure. Aren't you a bit concerned that your units are pretty flimsy and will only offer up token resistance? 

I mean that's just the case for a decent Tzzeentch build these days.

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13 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I mean that's just the case for a decent Tzzeentch build these days.

Yeah I suppose. I'm not one to talk as I love the Tzeentchian StoD look so I'm not all that well versed with daemonic/arcanite side of things. I don't know whether there's a happy medium?

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38 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I mean that's just the case for a decent Tzzeentch build these days.

If I counted the points right you could swap a Magister for a Chaos Warshrine? Also have the potential then to look at swapping one of the 10 pink horrors for something like a Changeling for some deepstrike summoning or Blue Scribes for the rerolls and another endless spell (cogs maybe for another spell or to let the Acolytes get onto objectives as the move lasts until the next hero phase, so would stop before the opponent can use it).

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This is the list I plan on starting with

fatesworn warband

Gaunt Summoner-general-illusionist-paradoxical shield-unchecked mutation 

Ogroid-Infusion Arcanum 

Chaos Sorcer Lord-Soul Drought-tzeentch’s firestorm 

Curseling- glimpse the future

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount

k. Acolytes x10

k. Acolytes x10

k.Acolytes x36

warshrine

Chaos Knights x9

balewind

pendulum

that’s 2000. 7 spells a turn, decent hammer in the Knights and the 36x block of Acolytes with shields should be hell to chew through. Should be able to do some ok summoning hopefully. 

 

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3 hours ago, TheRedWizard said:

This is the list I plan on starting with

fatesworn warband

Gaunt Summoner-general-illusionist-paradoxical shield-unchecked mutation 

Ogroid-Infusion Arcanum 

Chaos Sorcer Lord-Soul Drought-tzeentch’s firestorm 

Curseling- glimpse the future

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount

k. Acolytes x10

k. Acolytes x10

k.Acolytes x36

warshrine

Chaos Knights x9

balewind

pendulum

that’s 2000. 7 spells a turn, decent hammer in the Knights and the 36x block of Acolytes with shields should be hell to chew through. Should be able to do some ok summoning hopefully. 

 

Sadly, you can't do under strength units in a battalion anymore apparently.

35671633_10103879408019009_8499168889219

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7 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Sadly, you can't do under strength units in a battalion anymore apparently.

35671633_10103879408019009_8499168889219

I took that to mean units that were under the min unit size. So you wouldn’t be able to run a 9 man unit of acolytes, but 19 should be ok? 

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18 minutes ago, TheRedWizard said:
28 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

[image of rules for war scroll battalion]

I took that to mean units that were under the min unit size. So you wouldn’t be able to run a 9 man unit of acolytes, but 19 should be ok?

@TheRedWizard that is based on the rule 'Understrength' from the 'Unit Size' paragraph from p.13

"Unit Size

If a model is fielded as part of a unit of two or more models, then the description will say how many models the unit should have. If you don’t have enough models to field a unit, you can field one unit of that type with as many models as you have available. This is known as an understrength unit."

@AverageBossYep ... you're on point. If you are under the minimum number of models that the war scroll says is the 'minimum models' that is an Understrength unit. So, for Kairic Acolytes your minimum unit size on the war scroll is 10. Running at 18 (or 19) would be just fine and would work in a Warscroll Battalion. Running in a unit of 8 or 9 ... would not. (Unless you're using the super-old Silver Tower Warscroll which gave you 8 models as the minimum ... but you loose out on the Vulcharic the Scroll of Dark Arts ... that's the same one with the minimum unit size for Blue Horrors at 2. ;) )

Edited by TheOtherJosh

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So I dont know where to post this cause it's a question I have between Slaves to Darkness and Tzeentch adn chaos in general.

I'm planing to start Chaos after summer and I was thinking of Battleforce Tzentch because I love the models and have silver tower so I have Gaunt Summoner, Ogroid and Pink horror Herald to use as heroes. This plus the battleforce gives me 1500 points with 4 heroes and 5 magic casting. This is fine.

The thing is I will absolutely buy Archaon. I think it's an awesome model and a way to have something for every chaos army if I wanna go later for another. And here's my doubt, if maybe Archaon doesn't fit with Tzeench or if maybe I should go instead of that Battleforce for two Start collecting Slaves to Darkness.

 So I think Archaon works well with every army but will it go well with Tzeench?? with him I would go 7 magic spells for turn if I put all heroes.

I like slaves to darkness but I have more than 2k from stormcast and I think they play similar way. Tzeenech has a lot of magic and I think with archaon could be fun. The other armys I have a bit "similar" is Sylvaneth with 2 treelord, 2 wizards and Alarille that go 7 magic spells too.

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2 hours ago, Hoseman said:

So I dont know where to post this cause it's a question I have between Slaves to Darkness and Tzeentch adn chaos in general.

I'm planing to start Chaos after summer and I was thinking of Battleforce Tzentch because I love the models and have silver tower so I have Gaunt Summoner, Ogroid and Pink horror Herald to use as heroes. This plus the battleforce gives me 1500 points with 4 heroes and 5 magic casting. This is fine.

The thing is I will absolutely buy Archaon. I think it's an awesome model and a way to have something for every chaos army if I wanna go later for another. And here's my doubt, if maybe Archaon doesn't fit with Tzeench or if maybe I should go instead of that Battleforce for two Start collecting Slaves to Darkness.

 So I think Archaon works well with every army but will it go well with Tzeench?? with him I would go 7 magic spells for turn if I put all heroes.

I like slaves to darkness but I have more than 2k from stormcast and I think they play similar way. Tzeenech has a lot of magic and I think with archaon could be fun. The other armys I have a bit "similar" is Sylvaneth with 2 treelord, 2 wizards and Alarille that go 7 magic spells too.

I've had some success with Archaon + Fateweaver if against other big Monsters.

Main problem really is the lack of Command Abilities to take advantage of for Tzeentch Allegiances.

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How do you guys think Tzaangors could be utilized in 2.0?

Daemons seem so powerful to the point where looking at things I'm almost convinced to take 30 pinks as my battleline and shove in a lot of powerful casting + endless spells to rack up spell points to supplement chaff

 

Rather than fatesworn I've been more interested in using Cabal out of the disciples book with a focus on tzaangor shamans who have the daemon keyword so they work very nicely with lords of change, and generating fate points because they get the bonus from the LoC and they can take spells from the mortal list because of the arcanite keyword

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6 hours ago, nsc said:

How do you guys think Tzaangors could be utilized in 2.0?

I want to add to this question: What do you think about still playing skyfires in 2.0?

Is it still worth/possible running a 18 skyfires list? Maybe with adding a shaman and a gaunt summoner with 4x10 kairic acolytes as battleline? This list clocks in at exactly 2000 pts.

Any ideas?

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2 hours ago, Shaman on Disc said:

I want to add to this question: What do you think about still playing skyfires in 2.0?

Is it still worth/possible running a 18 skyfires list? Maybe with adding a shaman and a gaunt summoner with 4x10 kairic acolytes as battleline? This list clocks in at exactly 2000 pts.

Any ideas?

I think the challenge would be that you have over half your army points in Skyfires and not much casting. Which decreases the available fate points available for summoning. Look out sir will decrease the effectiveness of your Skyfires at deleting enemy heroes... that list looks to have some uphill challenges.

Edited by TheOtherJosh

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51 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

I think the challenge would be that you have over half your army points in Skyfires and not much casting. Which decreases the available fate points available for summoning. Look out sir will decrease the effectiveness of your Skyfires at deleting enemy heroes... that list looks to have some uphill challenges.

I agree with you. It's gonna be the list I end up running, just because I don't want to have to paint hordes. It's definitely gonna be a very glass canon list, that will look to snipe quickly and efficiently; I'm not sure it'll be competitive but we'll see.

Tzaangor Shaman 180

Gaunt Summoner 180

Curseling 160

30 Tzaangors 480

3x10 Acolytes 240

9 Skyfires 660

Umbral Spellportal 60

Æthervoid Pendulum 40

 

I was also considering Cogs, due to Tzaangors having the ability to charge very fast, but ultimately I think the flexibility of the pendulum will be more useful. Everything in this list says "kill", but controlling objectives...

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Ok so my current list modified for the new 2.0 pts is way to light on the casters atm, but dammit, I want to play tzaangors!

Tzeentch 2000

Tzaangor Shaman 180

Tzaangor Shaman 180

Tzaangors x30 480

Pink Horrors x10 200

Pink Horrors x10 200

Tzaangor Skyfires x9 660

 

I have 100pts left if my math isn't off, but I'm not sure what to do with that atm. Another caster seems to be the thing to do, or one of those endless spells but I'm not 100% into those yet.

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You know what. Tzeentch is pretty powerful with realm spells in play. 

Anyone tried them? Maybe the army is balanced with that in mind?

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8 hours ago, Qaz said:

You know what. Tzeentch is pretty powerful with realm spells in play. 

Anyone tried them? Maybe the army is balanced with that in mind?

Sort of doubt wizards are built with the realm spells in mind, aren't those sort of firmly in Open/Narrative play outside of specific events that do specify them?

 

I mean how the heck do you balance Matched Play rules with gaining 6 extra spells for free.

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24 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Sort of doubt wizards are built with the realm spells in mind, aren't those sort of firmly in Open/Narrative play outside of specific events that do specify them?

 

I mean how the heck do you balance Matched Play rules with gaining 6 extra spells for free.

They are supposed to be used with the Realm of Battle rules from the Core Book. (in contrast to the realm artifacts)

I highly doubt these rules will be used at events or competitive matched play.

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3 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I mean how the heck do you balance Matched Play rules with gaining 6 extra spells for free.

How does one balance Matched Play with free summoning? Well GW attempted to do it by point adjustment and making it restrictive/conditional. Too early to tell whether it's "gonna be too abusive for Matched Play" since only had a couple of game with it but Tzeentch feels stronger with Realm rules in place.

Realms are as optional as terrain rules are, some places don't play them but it is part of the core rules. I didn't read anything in GHB2018 that overrule this. So FLGS having the first AoS 2.0 1k tourney with Realms. Will probably be able to get a better feel of it by then. 
 

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