Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Naem]

But wouldn't the better way to fix this giving the big centerpiece modells some kind of protection against these kinds of attacks maybe? Maybe better artefacts or some special skills rather than nerfing the fun units of other armies which become also less viable against everything by the nerf.

[The World Tree]

Longstrikes are not good for the game in their current iterations. The poster on the previous page was correct - the issue is reinforced fulmis/longstrikes.

[Freejack02]

14 minutes ago, Naem said:

But wouldn't the better way to fix this giving the big centerpiece modells some kind of protection against these kinds of attacks maybe?

They quite literally tried to do that - hero phase heals aplenty and monstrous roars are there to try and make the big bad models stick around longer. Reinforcement rules were put in place to stop people playing large blocks of optimized scalpel-units. Unfortunately, the damage output of our problem children (seemingly Longstrikes and Fulmis atm) overwhelmed the expectations... so they're likely going to be pruned back a bit. 

[Celestantpants]

My only issue though is that no one seems to care (outside of fellow Stormcast players) when our entire army is weak and unfun to play.  Such as before our new Tome.  They also don't seem to care how all the nerfs ruin the experience for Stormcast players. 

I don't really see anyone outside of Stormcast players shedding a tear for how our army will play and feel if we get nerfed into oblivion.  Not saying thats what happened yet, even if fulminators and longstrikes get nerfed.  If those things happen we can still compete.  The thing is, as new tomes come out we are going to get left in the dust.  Again.  No one seems to care about that. 

So while I agree that we don't want to give the feel bads to other armies, it would be nice for people to make those same considerations for us.  It gets old being the whipping boy.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Celestantpants

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Celestantpants said:

My only issue though is that no one seems to care (outside of fellow Stormcast players) when our entire army is weak and unfun to play.  Such as before our new Tome.  They also don't seem to care how all the nerfs ruin the experience for Stormcast players. 

I don't really see anyone outside of Stormcast players shedding a tear for how our army will play and feel if we get nerfed into oblivion.  Not saying thats what happened yet, even if fulminators and longstrikes get nerfed.  If those things happen we can still compete.  The thing is, as new tomes come out we are going to get left in the dust.  Again.  No one seems to care about that. 

So while I agree that we don't want to give the feel bads to other armies, it would be nice for people to make those same considerations for us.  It gets old being the whipping boy.

the eternal poster faction problem on some level I get it, GW would rather redo the Space Marines gimmick than truly diversify AOS, but I agree that we don't really get the same level of sympathy.

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, Celestantpants said:

My only issue though is that no one seems to care (outside of fellow Stormcast players) when our entire army is weak and unfun to play.  Such as before our new Tome.  They also don't seem to care how all the nerfs ruin the experience for Stormcast players. 

I don't really see anyone outside of Stormcast players shedding a tear for how our army will play and feel if we get nerfed into oblivion.  Not saying thats what happened yet, even if fulminators and longstrikes get nerfed.  If those things happen we can still compete.  The thing is, as new tomes come out we are going to get left in the dust.  Again.  No one seems to care about that. 

So while I agree that we don't want to give the feel bads to other armies, it would be nice for people to make those same considerations for us.  It gets old being the whipping boy.

Ehh, most factions take some time at the bottom of the barrel.

Kharadron Overlords were one of the top armies in 2.0 because they had a ton of damage and a ton of ways to deliver it.  They are now one of the worst armies available, because their damage is done via rend -1 with a sprinkling of rend -2, and save stacking basically laughs in their face.  Do we see anyone outside of KO players shedding a tear for how their army plays now that they have effectively been nerfed out of the game?

Slannesh was one of the the top armies for a while and at one point reached nearly a 70% winrate in competitive.  Now they are bottom of the barrel because their new book nerfed them to heck and back.  Do we see non-slannesh players shedding any tears for them now that they have fallen off the face of the earth?

Flesh Eater Courts were the terror of the battlefields for quite some time, and were kings in the "strikes first" meta that existed for a while.  Then they got nerfed, and new books came out that had strategies that countered FEC, and went from top tier to the lower end of the mid tier.  And is anyone shedding any tears for FEC players?

Fyerslayers were a terror running around with 3 blocks of 20 hearthguard berzerkers.  Now they can run a maximum of 2 blocks of 15... leaving them with another 6 blocks of 5 that they can't reinforce because of the reinforcements limit.  They also used to stack saves with various aura effects, but while previously they could get to a 3+, now they are capped at a 4+ because their base save is a 5+.  The entire playstyle got taken out back and shot... but I am not seeing anyone shedding tears for them outside of the fyreslayers threads.

I could keep going on with more examples.  What happened to Cities of Sigmar with the irondrake bridges of doom?  What happened to the 6 monster Beastclaw Raiders lists?  What happened to the seraphon players who bought into Saurus?  What happened to the poor souls who were doing good with Bonesplittaz?  How about the people that went deep on Skyfires when they were good?  How about the entirety of Ossiarch Bonereapers, who can't use any of the nifty new features that came out with 3.0 because they don't use command points, but were terrors until petrifex elite got nerfed?

I would advise you to stop focusing how how it is affecting your one army.  Things change over time, and Stormcast will get a few months to podium before falling back into obscurity like most armies.  Yes, there are a few that come out and never amount to anything (looking at you beasts of chaos), but anything that ends up at the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster.  Yes, it will be nice if after they are done nerfing, Stormcast still have a few lists that can reliably go 3-2, but if we're honest, that is about the power level that most armies should be at.

[Celestantpants]

59 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Ehh, most factions take some time at the bottom of the barrel.

Kharadron Overlords were one of the top armies in 2.0 because they had a ton of damage and a ton of ways to deliver it.  They are now one of the worst armies available, because their damage is done via rend -1 with a sprinkling of rend -2, and save stacking basically laughs in their face.  Do we see anyone outside of KO players shedding a tear for how their army plays now that they have effectively been nerfed out of the game?

Slannesh was one of the the top armies for a while and at one point reached nearly a 70% winrate in competitive.  Now they are bottom of the barrel because their new book nerfed them to heck and back.  Do we see non-slannesh players shedding any tears for them now that they have fallen off the face of the earth?

Flesh Eater Courts were the terror of the battlefields for quite some time, and were kings in the "strikes first" meta that existed for a while.  Then they got nerfed, and new books came out that had strategies that countered FEC, and went from top tier to the lower end of the mid tier.  And is anyone shedding any tears for FEC players?

Fyerslayers were a terror running around with 3 blocks of 20 hearthguard berzerkers.  Now they can run a maximum of 2 blocks of 15... leaving them with another 6 blocks of 5 that they can't reinforce because of the reinforcements limit.  They also used to stack saves with various aura effects, but while previously they could get to a 3+, now they are capped at a 4+ because their base save is a 5+.  The entire playstyle got taken out back and shot... but I am not seeing anyone shedding tears for them outside of the fyreslayers threads.

I could keep going on with more examples.  What happened to Cities of Sigmar with the irondrake bridges of doom?  What happened to the 6 monster Beastclaw Raiders lists?  What happened to the seraphon players who bought into Saurus?  What happened to the poor souls who were doing good with Bonesplittaz?  How about the people that went deep on Skyfires when they were good?  How about the entirety of Ossiarch Bonereapers, who can't use any of the nifty new features that came out with 3.0 because they don't use command points, but were terrors until petrifex elite got nerfed?

I would advise you to stop focusing how how it is affecting your one army.  Things change over time, and Stormcast will get a few months to podium before falling back into obscurity like most armies.  Yes, there are a few that come out and never amount to anything (looking at you beasts of chaos), but anything that ends up at the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster.  Yes, it will be nice if after they are done nerfing, Stormcast still have a few lists that can reliably go 3-2, but if we're honest, that is about the power level that most armies should be at.

The problem with your examples though, is the Stormcast tome was never the top of the meta.  It was never a terror that lasted for an extended time frame like many of your examples.  We had a few lists go 4-1 and then got nerfed.  We had units and abilities get nerfed incredibly quickly.  Stormcast quite literally went from a terrible army to a quite good army with our new Tome, but that lasted like a couple months and we were in no way tearing up the meta, to likely subpar again soon.  Again, all indications seem to be that we will quite quickly go back to being subpar again for another whole edition with only a scant few months of being legit good between two whole editions.

Here is what is going to happen: new tomes will come out and they will be more powerful than ours.  Tome creep is a real thing, just look how it has affected 40k.  We are going to get powered crept something fierce, especially with all our good options being hit so hard so fast.  So we will likely spend most of 3.0 languishing on the lower end of the power scale.  Just like 2.0.  It's not a fun prospect.  Our Tome is mostly devoid of fun combos and synergies and 90% of our units are either just ok or straight up trash.  So we are left with a simplistic army that is over costed points wise and weak.  Again, I just want Stormcast to be decent.  If we average out at 3-2 that would be fine, but I doubt that is where we will end up as the edition carries on.

 

Also, my post you quoted was addressed to those implying that we should be nerfed to spare the feelings of other armies that get hit hard by fulminators and longstrikes.  My point was that it is hard to feel bad for those armies when nobody sheds a tear for us, and that nerfing our best units because other people feel bad about about how much damage our units can do isn't the best reason for said nerfs.  So in essence, should we worry about how other armies feel when our powerful units are actually powerful and destroy their favorite models?  Sure, we want everyone to have fun after all.  But a part of me also wants to say "welcome to what's been like to run Stormcast for the past several years.  You sure didn't seem to care when you ran roughshod over us."  Still, like I said, it's a game and everyone should be having fun.  Just would be nice if everyone would think that way.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Celestantpants

[Joseph Mackay]

8 hours ago, Naem said:

But wouldn't the better way to fix this giving the big centerpiece modells some kind of protection against these kinds of attacks maybe? Maybe better artefacts or some special skills rather than nerfing the fun units of other armies which become also less viable against everything by the nerf.

No, because this just makes those models impossible to deal with for the armies that don’t have Longstrike Raptor or Fulminator class units (like Bonesplitterz maybe)

[Joseph Mackay]

3 hours ago, readercolin said:

Ehh, most factions take some time at the bottom of the barrel.

Kharadron Overlords were one of the top armies in 2.0 because they had a ton of damage and a ton of ways to deliver it.  They are now one of the worst armies available, because their damage is done via rend -1 with a sprinkling of rend -2, and save stacking basically laughs in their face.  Do we see anyone outside of KO players shedding a tear for how their army plays now that they have effectively been nerfed out of the game?

Slannesh was one of the the top armies for a while and at one point reached nearly a 70% winrate in competitive.  Now they are bottom of the barrel because their new book nerfed them to heck and back.  Do we see non-slannesh players shedding any tears for them now that they have fallen off the face of the earth?

Flesh Eater Courts were the terror of the battlefields for quite some time, and were kings in the "strikes first" meta that existed for a while.  Then they got nerfed, and new books came out that had strategies that countered FEC, and went from top tier to the lower end of the mid tier.  And is anyone shedding any tears for FEC players?

Fyerslayers were a terror running around with 3 blocks of 20 hearthguard berzerkers.  Now they can run a maximum of 2 blocks of 15... leaving them with another 6 blocks of 5 that they can't reinforce because of the reinforcements limit.  They also used to stack saves with various aura effects, but while previously they could get to a 3+, now they are capped at a 4+ because their base save is a 5+.  The entire playstyle got taken out back and shot... but I am not seeing anyone shedding tears for them outside of the fyreslayers threads.

I could keep going on with more examples.  What happened to Cities of Sigmar with the irondrake bridges of doom?  What happened to the 6 monster Beastclaw Raiders lists?  What happened to the seraphon players who bought into Saurus?  What happened to the poor souls who were doing good with Bonesplittaz?  How about the people that went deep on Skyfires when they were good?  How about the entirety of Ossiarch Bonereapers, who can't use any of the nifty new features that came out with 3.0 because they don't use command points, but were terrors until petrifex elite got nerfed?

I would advise you to stop focusing how how it is affecting your one army.  Things change over time, and Stormcast will get a few months to podium before falling back into obscurity like most armies.  Yes, there are a few that come out and never amount to anything (looking at you beasts of chaos), but anything that ends up at the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster.  Yes, it will be nice if after they are done nerfing, Stormcast still have a few lists that can reliably go 3-2, but if we're honest, that is about the power level that most armies should be at.

No one sheds a tear when oppressive or overpowered armies are nerfed 

[frenk_castle]

Hi Sigmar's Chosen.

I would like to ask for an opinion.

I am playing my friends Sylvaneth army on the weekend. Generals Handbook 2021 1000 points on "half the board". Kitchen table is not big enough for full size "recommended" map.

He will be playing Dracha, branchwraith, bracnwych, Kurnoth Hunters with Bow, two units of tree revenants, gladewyrm, spiteswarm hive, gnarlroot and some artefacts that give him autocast once per turn and one more not sure what other artefact is. He is playing the warlord battalion for additional enchantement.

I am thinking between three lists and would like your feedback on them. Idea is not to optimize against what my friend is playing but to have a list that is something that will give us a balanced game. I do not want a list that will trash his but I also do not want a list that will be trampled.

List I

Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Battle regiment
Lord-Relictor General High-Priest Amulet of Destiny Translocation
Yndrasta
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Judicators Crossbows
Call For Aid
Hold The Line

List II

Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Battle regiment
Lord-Relictor General High-Priest Amulet of Destiny Translocation
Lord Castelan
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Vindictors
5 Vindictors
5 Judicators Bows
Call For Aid
Hold The Line

List III

Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Battle regiment
Lord-Relictor General High-Priest Amulet of Destiny Translocation
Lord Castelan
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Liberators Hammer Shield
5 Retributors
5 Judicators Bows
Call For Aid
Hold The Line

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Edited December 9, 2021 by frenk_castle

[Naem]

Quote

Yes, there are a few that come out and never amount to anything (looking at you beasts of chaos), but anything that ends up at the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster. 

Well that sounds like there is no better way than constant overturning and then nerfing things into obscurity. I mean I get that a game with so many factions is hard to balance. But going for "welp that's just the way it is, things will never change" is letting GW off to easy for doing a not so good job imho. You have the same issues in 40k and they seem not to learn at all. Also the reflex of immediately acting and rushing out nerfs is not giving enough space for the players to maybe develop strategies first. If I look at competitive RTS like Starcraft for example there were often strategies or units that appeared imbalanced for a long time. But instead of instantly reacting to every cry from the community Blizzard (the good old Blizz, not the current mess) let the game run for a while. And suddenly those unstoppable strategies found counters. It just needed time and pressure. People will never go out and try all kinds of crazy ways to win against an apparently overpowered opponent if they are used to just crying long enough and then getting the nerfs they want.

I admit of course that there are some issues that need fixing, in every game. But just a couple of months and the data of - how many, a couple hundred? - games is not enough time at all to evaluate the situation. So, honestly, I can't help but think that there is also a sales component to all that.

"Oh you bought some new models because they were useful? Well we nerfed them so you will never play them but thanks for buying. Anyways we made THESE new models (or old models you never bought because they sucked) that now are really good. Would you mind buying them too, before we make them unplayable?"

Edited December 9, 2021 by Naem

[Marcvs]

11 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Honestly I feel like this encapsulates why we're getting nerfs (again) this early on in the tome cycle - people are tired of seeing their hard work getting obliterated by Longstrikes and Fulminators immediately. No one wants to bring their big shiny centerpiece models to the board if they know they're just going to be looking pretty from the graveyard for the next 2.5 hours. Any Kragnos, Gordrakk, Alarielle, or Archaon is going to be instantly focused and obliterated; and that's just unfun. You can argue that the tournament environment just has to deal with this (and I agree to some extent), but the problem is just the bad nature of alpha-strikes all around. They tried addressing it with the monster buffs in this edition, but the damage those 2 units can put out immediately is a bit overwhelming. 

 

I don't disagree with the bad feeling, but the test to see if this is actually what GW is addressing with the (alleged) nerf to longstrikes will be if other stuff that can do just the same will also be similarly hit.

[Siorra]

16 hours ago, Naem said:

wtf guys, I dropped AoS for a while to focus more on 40k, then saw all this amazing new units and a new book and thought "sweet". Just dropped like 300 Euros on Dragons and the new sword dudes and looked forward to not sucking SCE and now you are telling me, we are getting nerfed to death again before I even put together my new models? :((( 

And also - Vindictors are not as good as Liberators? I thought the ability to fight from two lines was very nice...and Annihilators are also only good with the great hammer option? Soooo why did I get two parts of the newish starter set, seems like actually nothing of that is viable? Oh my, I might just go back to my Marines  

Every list I've seen that has done well in tournaments has either included Liberators or Vindictors. Vindictors in particular seem like the superior choice for Stormkeep armies or any amounts of reinforcing due to the range. They are not "not as good" as Liberators, as much as people in this thread seem to claim they are, they just perform a different role. You will absolutely not lose games because you chose to take them over Liberators, providing you play to their strengths - just like any other unit whose warscroll/points aren't completely off (hello Vanquishers).

Also, I'm highly suspicious of all these claims that the dragons are going to be rewritten. I remember reading that the points jump was the change they were going to receive in the winter FAQ, we just got it early so it wasn't a feelbad when it happens after people stocked up on them. I'm ready to be wrong here, but it sounds like a lot of doomsaying with no evidence to back it up, usually from the same select few posters too.

[Beliman]

8 hours ago, readercolin said:

Kharadron Overlords were one of the top armies in 2.0 because they had a ton of damage and a ton of ways to deliver it.  They are now one of the worst armies available, because their damage is done via rend -1 with a sprinkling of rend -2, and save stacking basically laughs in their face.  Do we see anyone outside of KO players shedding a tear for how their army plays now that they have effectively been nerfed out of the game?

KOs has a lot of problems, but I disagree that we are that bad.

We are in the middle of the table and that's really good for the army. We can use 90% of our roster  and still challenge 90% of the armies. Only a few that are overtuned can auto-win vs us (not sure if that's the word, sometimes a bad dice a tthe right time can decide the game) and that's more about the other armies than KOs. 

Btw, we are still waiting for FAQs to "clarify" how our army is played...

 

[Celestantpants]

3 hours ago, Siorra said:

Every list I've seen that has done well in tournaments has either included Liberators or Vindictors. Vindictors in particular seem like the superior choice for Stormkeep armies or any amounts of reinforcing due to the range. They are not "not as good" as Liberators, as much as people in this thread seem to claim they are, they just perform a different role. You will absolutely not lose games because you chose to take them over Liberators, providing you play to their strengths - just like any other unit whose warscroll/points aren't completely off (hello Vanquishers).

Also, I'm highly suspicious of all these claims that the dragons are going to be rewritten. I remember reading that the points jump was the change they were going to receive in the winter FAQ, we just got it early so it wasn't a feelbad when it happens after people stocked up on them. I'm ready to be wrong here, but it sounds like a lot of doomsaying with no evidence to back it up, usually from the same select few posters too.

Hey, I hope you are right and there is no war scroll rewrite.  You very well could be.  Fingers crossed.  I personally think they are fine at the new point cost.  

[Tizianolol]

guys anyone know the base size of Stormdrake guards, krondys and the drake hero? thx a lot! 

[Siorra]

9 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

guys anyone know the base size of Stormdrake guards, krondys and the drake hero? thx a lot! 

All Stormdrakes are on 105mm, the 2 named big-boys are on 180mm. FYI, all bases sizes can be found under the "description" section of any mini on the Games Workshop website.

[PJetski]

16 hours ago, The World Tree said:

Longstrikes are not good for the game in their current iterations. The poster on the previous page was correct - the issue is reinforced fulmis/longstrikes.

They can take Longstrikes and Fulminators away once the game stops being all about 30" no line of sight shooting, gargants with effectively 50+ wounds, 3+ god models rerolling +3 saves, and 50 wound blobs of horrors with 5+ wards

[Tizianolol]

55 minutes ago, Siorra said:

All Stormdrakes are on 105mm, the 2 named big-boys are on 180mm. FYI, all bases sizes can be found under the "description" section of any mini on the Games Workshop website.

Ye I have found it on website. But its 105x70 like durthu for example? Because its oval not a circle!:)

[Yondaime]

17 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Honestly I feel like this encapsulates why we're getting nerfs (again) this early on in the tome cycle - people are tired of seeing their hard work getting obliterated by Longstrikes and Fulminators immediately. No one wants to bring their big shiny centerpiece models to the board if they know they're just going to be looking pretty from the graveyard for the next 2.5 hours. Any Kragnos, Gordrakk, Alarielle, or Archaon is going to be instantly focused and obliterated; and that's just unfun. You can argue that the tournament environment just has to deal with this (and I agree to some extent), but the problem is just the bad nature of alpha-strikes all around. They tried addressing it with the monster buffs in this edition, but the damage those 2 units can put out immediately is a bit overwhelming. 

I don't think Longstrikes need a points hike - I think something needs to be done about reinforced Longstrikes with TV. Similar case with Fulminators - something needs to be done about 4 of them being able to ruin whatever they touch on the charge. 

They gave us a book full of frankly underwhelming choices, then immediately respond with reactive nerfs when people use the stuff that isn't underwhelming. Honestly I think if TV gets adjusted somehow, we'd be perfectly fine where we're at. 

Also, freaking overwatch, 1 turn of shooting and those longstrike killed skarbrand and a bt, and the last bt standong was killed by overwatch

 

why shooting have to be always so strong?

[Celestantpants]

54 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

Also, freaking overwatch, 1 turn of shooting and those longstrike killed skarbrand and a bt, and the last bt standong was killed by overwatch

 

why shooting have to be always so strong?

Yeah, unleash hell was in no way needed.  Personally I'd be fine if they just deleted it from the game.  As you say, shooting did not need that kind of boost.  I'd prefer if shooting took more of a back seat.  I don't like how strong it is either.  I play AOS to have epic melee clashes, with some arrows sprinkled in here or there.  If I want to play a shooting focused game I'll go and play 40k.  That said, I agree with Pjetski: As long as other OP options are around the longstrikes are needed.  Unleash hell can go straight to hell though.

[mojojojo101]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

They can take Longstrikes and Fulminators away once the game stops being all about 30" no line of sight shooting, gargants with effectively 50+ wounds, 3+ god models rerolling +3 saves, and 50 wound blobs of horrors with 5+ wards

Imo the core problem with the game right now is everything does way, way too much damage, therefore everything that you want to be a tarpit has to load up on masses of wounds, save-stacking, ward saves and healing, then the damaging units have to keep up so the problem just gets worse and worse.

At least from what I have found, the game also highly rewards being able to do overwhelming damage in one or two spots, spreading out damage and trying to whittle your opponent down over 5m rounds just isn't a viable strategy.

The thing is, from what we have seen of the Glotkin warscroll damage... big, reliable damage isn't going anywhere.

[Freejack02]

The game needs a way to incentivize NOT focus-firing priority targets (which seems insane, because that's how you efficiently beat armies in this game). I see a few ways of doing that:  they can remove the weapons that effectively do that, it can buff those priority targets' defenses to a point where they can't be alpha'd off the table, or it can find a way to reward players for spreading damage out and hitting multiple units. I'd like to see the third option attempted, but it's long been a problem in other games as well and there's not an easy fix for it (DnD character optimization suffers the same dilemmas).

I'd like to see an experiment where Longstrikes are weak(er) against a single unit, but get more shots and increased effectiveness the more units they target. I know it doesn't really fit the unit aesthetic, but it would be great to reduce their "problem" damage while keeping up strong overall damage. 

[Doko]

15 hours ago, readercolin said:

the top of the pile for a while inevitably gets that final nerf that pushes them over the edge into the dumpster.

Agree with you post,but this sentence isnt true. Only look to tzenth and how have been a top tier army in every edition

[readercolin]

27 minutes ago, Doko said:

Agree with you post,but this sentence isnt true. Only look to tzenth and how have been a top tier army in every edition

Sure, there has been a Tzeentch army that has been good, but it is notable that it hasn't been the same army.

There was the era of Skyfires dominating tables.  Then there was the Changehost with flamers, pinks and a lord of change, teleporting a shooting unit each turn. 

In 3.0, Tzeentch has already gone through 3 shifts, with the first being the Cogs spell spam with massed summoning due to that, followed by Archaeon Tzeentch, and now it is more about massed pinks.

Are some models shared between these armies?  Yes.  But depending upon when you bought into Tzeentch, if you wanted to be able to run all 5 of these lists, you are sitting on ~6k points of Tzeentch to be able to do so as various units have fallen in and out of the meta.