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Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors


PJetski
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Dragons!

AoS Stormdrake Aug2 Image1

What we know so far:

Battletome preorder was stated to be in August, so it must be coming Aug 28 and released on Sep 4.

Once the battletome is officially previewed on Youtube I will make separate threads for discussions on each Stormhost. I also plan on making a "Why Play Stormcast? Pros and Cons" type of post to help introduce new players to the faction

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With the homogenization of the Vanguard Hunter melee weapons, do we think it's reasonable to assume GW may do the same with Liberator and Evocator melee kits as well?

 

(Especially because the no rend on grand staves is way worse than it used to be, and only rend -1 on the swords is also pretty garbage on Evos)

 

Edited by Sleepa
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10 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

With the homogenization of the Vanguard Hunter melee weapons, do we think it's reasonable to assume GW may do the same with Liberator and Evocator melee kits as well?

 

(Especially because the no rend on grand staves is way worse than it used to be, and only rend -1 on the swords is also pretty garbage on Evos)

 


I think we can decently expect some rend 1 all over the army, except maybe for some very low tier units (aetherwings and gryph-hound and maybe liberators but who knows at this point).

The game seems to evolve so that every 120+ unit get rend 1 and elite units could get to rend 2 (dracoth, maybe dracolines and for sure the new flying dragon cavalry).
My assumption for that is the most recent battletomes such as lumineth and daughter of khaines who got battlelines with rend 1 and big monsters/character get rend 2.

I think Rend 3 will stay rare and almost exclusively reserved for unique weapons and character (ghal maraz, maybe gotrek weapon...Etc).

 

That's how i see things going on, think space marines for 40K, almost everone has a good melee profile, PA1 on bloters when using the correct doctrine...Etc.

Other armies will still get cheap bodies with no rend still, i don't see clanrats performing with this kind of profile for example.

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I can see Stormcast getting 3+ saves and lots more Rend but it fits their aesthetic. I dont think the same thing will happen to other armies. While 40k is a game full of different space marine factions, there is only one "big armor and big weapons" faction in AOS.

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14 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I can see Stormcast getting 3+ saves and lots more Rend but it fits their aesthetic. I dont think the same thing will happen to other armies. While 40k is a game full of different space marine factions, there is only one "big armor and big weapons" faction in AOS.

As in 40K chaos and order works in mirror, i think chaos warriors, blood warriors...Etc could have the same treatment (and should, honestly blades of khorne battletome is severly lacking diversity of playstyles with the removal of battalions).

Big armor and big weapons are spread among many factions, think ironjawz, ogors...etc.

I agree with you though, stormcast have a particular style and aesthetic that set them apart, that's why i play them and love their models.

Edited by jeanfluflu
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2 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Based on what we’ve seen so far I’m expecting most things without rend to get rend 1, and rend 1 weapons to get rend 2 or damage 2. Exciting times.

Sequitors Rend 1 on normal maces, rend 2 on greatmaces 😱

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I kept saying to myself that I should just go ahead and start up the Strormcast 3.0 thread, but kept putting it off because I knew somebody else would probably do a better job of it (I never would have come up with such a good title :D ).

 

In answer to @Sleepa's question, I suspect that Liberator and Sequitur weapon profiles will be merged together, just like Vanguard-Hunters. 

I imagine Evocators will keep the two separate profiles, but I suspect the profiles will have some changes  That said, I also wouldn't be shocked if Evo-kitties got simplified to a single profile for both weapons.

Images of the new Dracothian Guard booklets indicate that they're keeping their unique profiles while also getting some boosts, so I'm confident that our Paladins will follow suit.

It's still too early for me to speculate on anything else, but what they've shown so far has really stoked my confidence that we're going to like what we see with the rest of the units.

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Re-reading the top comment of this topic and i wondered if we could classify the units with the stormhosts using lore speculations and/or iconography to speculate arround how these host could be played:

-Hammers of sigmar:
dracothian guard will be battleline, so i'm expecting lots of elite of synergies and bonuses like the initial 6+ward they got (lord celestant, stardrake, the dragon princes? Maybe this is the Stormhost we want to play our dragon army in)

-Hallowed knights:
They are...pure and faithful and that's basically it, they don't have confidence in magic so i'm expecting that priests and banners type of character could get bonuses here, also it fits with Yndrasta pretty well (the lore says that they go deep into place where no one goes and figth the darkest foes).

-Celestial vindicators:
Anti-chaos lore, to the point where they become intensly violents (lord veritant, judicators have bonuses against chaos, maybe 1st edition units as well since they got heavily focused fighting against chaos in early artworks but i don't see clear identity here, i'm thinking prosecutors as well).

-Anvils of heldenhammer:
the iconography makes me think that lord relictors and priests could be perfect in that ost, historically it was the shooting style army because of the insanely porweful command ability but i don't think we can corner them tto that specific identity.

-Knights excelsiors:
Paladins, we know it now so that's good :)

-Celestial warbringer:
Maybe magic and sacro sanct units buffs since they already had some magic buff and it is specified in the lore that they have bigger sacro-sanct chamber than any other osts

-Tempest lords:
Civilized and noble so we can probably expect some character buffs and lore wise i think Lord castellant fit this descriptions.

-Astral Templar:
Vanguard chamber and anti monsters confirmed.

What do you guys think? 

 

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I will say, i am incredibly excited about the grandhammer annhilators. if the Dracothion guard are any guess we will see -1 rend 2 damage on the small hammers and -2 rend 3 damage on the big grandhammers, which is an absolute blender

 

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It occurs to me that the Dracothian guard probably tell us the dragon Knight profile, too.

The steeds are 3 attacks 3/3/-2/2. I expect the dragon mounts to be at least this if not 4 or 5 attacks.

Similarly the lances will probably be at least as good as Fulminators (5 attacks 3/3/-2-/1 probably damage 3 on the charge).

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14 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

It occurs to me that the Dracothian guard probably tell us the dragon Knight profile, too.

The steeds are 3 attacks 3/3/-2/2. I expect the dragon mounts to be at least this if not 4 or 5 attacks.

Similarly the lances will probably be at least as good as Fulminators (5 attacks 3/3/-2-/1 probably damage 3 on the charge).

I sure hope so, but remember that thse guys will fly so unless the unit of 2 is at least 300pts i don't see something like this going into the game (probably 12" move too).

I'm more than curious about the specific rules of these drakes, i think we can decently expect an ability to do MW on the distance (like dracoth and the dragon princes do) but i don't know if we can get some extra rules, maybe MW on impact? the monster keyword? bravery debuff?

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7 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

I sure hope so, but remember that thse guys will fly so unless the unit of 2 is at least 300pts i don't see something like this going into the game (probably 12" move too).

I'm more than curious about the specific rules of these drakes, i think we can decently expect an ability to do MW on the distance (like dracoth and the dragon princes do) but i don't know if we can get some extra rules, maybe MW on impact? the monster keyword? bravery debuff?

They are going to be 300 minimum and probably around 400. Base size, flight, wounds per model. No way they are close to Dracolines.

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22 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

They are going to be 300 minimum and probably around 400. Base size, flight, wounds per model. No way they are close to Dracolines.

OH yeah i completely forgot about the wounds, if i remember correctly i think someone mentionned that they could have up to 8 wounds per model.
So yeah 400pts per 2 seems legit, especially with a 3+ save...etc i just hope they get a good rend characteristic.

For example if you take the blood knights they get insane damage output (for 400pts you get 10 of them and with the right abilities they ramp up to damage 3) but this efficiency is severly mitigated by the low rend they have (and for good reasons, 31 attacks hitting on 2 or 3 wounding on 3 with damage 3 is really no joke).

So if i had to invest into these i hope that my attacks will get through because we will not have 30attacks for 2 models :D

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9 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

OH yeah i completely forgot about the wounds, if i remember correctly i think someone mentionned that they could have up to 8 wounds per model.
So yeah 400pts per 2 seems legit, especially with a 3+ save...etc i just hope they get a good rend characteristic.

For example if you take the blood knights they get insane damage output (for 400pts you get 10 of them and with the right abilities they ramp up to damage 3) but this efficiency is severly mitigated by the low rend they have (and for good reasons, 31 attacks hitting on 2 or 3 wounding on 3 with damage 3 is really no joke).

So if i had to invest into these i hope that my attacks will get through because we will not have 30attacks for 2 models :D

IIRC we were speculating 7/8 wounds and @Whitefang said much higher 😃

Edited by PrimeElectrid
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23 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

IIRC we were speculating 7/8 wounds and @Whitefang said much higher 😃

Damn, i don't know what to say at this point.... or i mean yes i know and the thing is "STONKS"!

Can't wait to build an army with a tauralon, a dragon prince, knight dracothion and a couple of these beast+dracothain guard in battleline for a full scaly build.

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1 minute ago, jeanfluflu said:

[...] Can't wait to build an army with a tauralon, a dragon prince, knight dracothion and a couple of these beast+dracothain guard in battleline for a full scaly build.

I second this. But I still need to warm up with the face of the tauralon. But maybe with an alternative head.. something more dragon-ish mmmh. Do y'all think the drakes will be about 10-11 wounds each? I can't imagine them being 12 wounds. And I'm still not sure about the monster keywords. That would make them significantly more potent and there is precedence with gargants of having more than one monster in a unit but still.. I hope they will not be too expensive points-wise because I would want to field a bit more than only the knight dracothion and 3 min-sized units of them in 2000 points.

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Tidbit of Stardrake rumour for Stormcast enthusiasts.

Presumably from someone who has gotten hold of revamped assembly manual.

 

+2 Wounds for both Lord-Celestant on Stardrake and Drakesworn Templar. 

But Drakesworn Templar now has 4+ Save.

 

Both weapons for Lord-Celestant(Hammer and Sword) now have Rend -2, with Hammer having Damage 2 and the Sword with Damage 1. The Sword has 6 attacks though. 

Stardrake's claws now have Rend -2 and Damage 2, whereas its tail is now a separate melee weapon with 3" Range, D6 Attacks at 3+ / 3+ / Rend -1 / Damage 2.

 

Drakesworn Templar's melee weapons stayed unchanged for the most part. 

His skybolt bow however now has 2 attacks instead of 1, hinting the upcoming buff for Judicators.

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23 minutes ago, Kaleydoscope said:

I second this. But I still need to warm up with the face of the tauralon. But maybe with an alternative head.. something more dragon-ish mmmh. Do y'all think the drakes will be about 10-11 wounds each? I can't imagine them being 12 wounds. And I'm still not sure about the monster keywords. That would make them significantly more potent and there is precedence with gargants of having more than one monster in a unit but still.. I hope they will not be too expensive points-wise because I would want to field a bit more than only the knight dracothion and 3 min-sized units of them in 2000 points.

I wouldn't want them to be a MONSTER for the opposite reason, since they would give away too many VP (score a battle tactic killing a battleline 2 VP +1 for killing a monster, +1 if you do it with a monster, is potentially a big liability).

 

EDIT: then again, they might score you enough points to balance this 🤔

Edited by Marcvs
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13 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Tidbit of Stardrake rumour for Stormcast enthusiasts.

Presumably from someone who has gotten hold of revamped assembly manual.

 

+2 Wounds for both Lord-Celestant on Stardrake and Drakesworn Templar. 

But Drakesworn Templar now has 4+ Save.

 

Both weapons for Lord-Celestant(Hammer and Sword) now have Rend -2, with Hammer having Damage 2 and the Sword with Damage 1. The Sword has 6 attacks though. 

Stardrake's claws now have Rend -2 and Damage 2, whereas its tail is now a separate melee weapon with 3" Range, D6 Attacks at 3+ / 3+ / Rend -1 / Damage 2.

 

Drakesworn Templar's melee weapons stayed unchanged for the most part. 

His skybolt bow however now has 2 attacks instead of 1, hinting the upcoming buff for Judicators.

Somehow that doesn't make Star Drakes any more interesting. I was hoping for a complete revamp. The Stardrake stats simply don't feel like a Stardrake since it will still hit like a wet noodle in melee

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1 hour ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

Tidbit of Stardrake rumour for Stormcast enthusiasts.

Presumably from someone who has gotten hold of revamped assembly manual.

 

+2 Wounds for both Lord-Celestant on Stardrake and Drakesworn Templar. 

But Drakesworn Templar now has 4+ Save.

 

Both weapons for Lord-Celestant(Hammer and Sword) now have Rend -2, with Hammer having Damage 2 and the Sword with Damage 1. The Sword has 6 attacks though. 

Stardrake's claws now have Rend -2 and Damage 2, whereas its tail is now a separate melee weapon with 3" Range, D6 Attacks at 3+ / 3+ / Rend -1 / Damage 2.

 

Drakesworn Templar's melee weapons stayed unchanged for the most part. 

His skybolt bow however now has 2 attacks instead of 1, hinting the upcoming buff for Judicators.

That does not promise well, auch 4+ save on the templar is terrible. For the champions and leaders of demigods they still do not really pack much of a punch. D6 attacks for the tail is also just extremely random. Not hyped for these guys right now, I hope to be proven wrong and they got some awesome other stuff, but if the 4+ save is true, the templar is for sure never going to be part of the army, unless he is MUCH cheaper.

I wonder though if the new drake riders will be behemoths/monsters, if they are above 8 wounds, then that might very well be the case.

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