AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Nevar]

Popping in to see what the general opinion was of the new rules. Most of what I read is as expected.

Only question I have... has anything in the leaks made anyone think the Crossboos are worth their points?  I mean... battleline with Kurdoss isn't the worst... but even with auto wound on 6's their expected damage even firing every turn is laughable.

[Evil Bob]

25 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Honestly I felt like I should have won the game TBH. But we were playing Tectonic Interference and I had consistently bad rolls on the Alpha objective (it was nearly always favorable to my opponent) and the Incarnate was a HUGE problem to deal with. 

I think with a bit more practice (and not relying on potato cam photos) I can probably compete with most armies. 

If we are heading into the Age Of Incarnate then tactics against them is going to be a fundamental question for anyone using the new book when it drops. How badly did it disrupt your ethereal options for extra Wave of Terror attacks? Any quagmires or did Craven King’s battle against it feel right? Was its battle location(s) good or bad for your getting VPs (i.e. was it costing your opponent more to bring it or was it his MVP)?

[Landohammer]

5 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

If we are heading into the Age Of Incarnate then tactics against them is going to be a fundamental question for anyone using the new book when it drops. How badly did it disrupt your ethereal options for extra Wave of Terror attacks? Any quagmires or did Craven King’s battle against it feel right? Was its battle location(s) good or bad for your getting VPs (i.e. was it costing your opponent more to bring it or was it his MVP)?

The "no retreat" rule DEFINITELY messes us up bad. Fortunately I have played a few games vs it and somewhat expected that though. The two big problems the incarnate causes me is A) it has a huge reroll charge aura that is extremely powerful for deepstrike armies like nurgle and B) it is essentially invulnerable for two turns, giving it the ability to guarantee two activations without any significant bracketing.

That being said, our ethereal is a good match for all of its high rend attacks, if a bit swingy. For example I popped discorporate and rolled hot and only took 1 damage on Kurdoss. Though in the next combat it murdered an entire unit of Bladegheists. 

I can't imagine there are many books that would be worse off by taking an Incarnate (maybe the overperforming books like DoK or seraphon). He adds a lot to whatever army he is in and he is a 400pt monster that is guaranteed to stay on the table for 2 turns. Hard to find fault with that. 

 

[lare2]

5 hours ago, That Guy said:

Quicksilver Dead: 

  Hide contents

That made me chuckle. 

[Neck-Romantic]

So does the DB Harrow's general-echo ability cover just the universal commands, or their warcroll specific command abilities?

Nvm I guess we dont have any of those. My bad.

So the Harrow is most likely best used for handing out a second all out attack, rally or 5+ ward save command?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Neck-Romantic

[Evil Bob]

16 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

So does the DB Harrow's general-echo ability cover just the universal commands, or their warcroll specific command abilities?

Nvm I guess we dont have any of those. My bad.

It took me a full day for it to sink in that the two Knight of Shrouds will get free Command Abilities. My opinions on them sure changed fast. Skimming rules might save time but it can have consequences…

[Fabbbio]

46 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

So does the DB Harrow's general-echo ability cover just the universal commands, or their warcroll specific command abilities?

Nvm I guess we dont have any of those. My bad.

So the Harrow is most likely best used for handing out a second all out attack, rally or 5+ ward save command?

We got the teleporting CA of the drowner, dunno I'd the DH can do that (at least thematically he could)

[The_Dudemeister]

5 hours ago, Nevar said:

Only question I have... has anything in the leaks made anyone think the Crossboos are worth their points?  I mean... battleline with Kurdoss isn't the worst... but even with auto wound on 6's their expected damage even firing every turn is laughable.

Their damage output is really weak. However they play very nice with Harridans who need a big model to be wounded or slain chaff in the current turn. Even against 3+ saves you're almost guaranteed to plink off a wound, so they can make Harridans stay supercharged indefinitely

 

Also I'm pleasantly surprised they got a 4+ save. The card you get in Arena of Shades shows them at a 5+.

They're in a weird spot, along with Banshees and Glaivewraiths. On the one hand, among our cheapest units, on the other hand too situational to be a mainstay of the army. That's why I rate the ability to become battleline really low on them. But they certainly do have their uses

 

Personally I'll try them with Lady Olynder to snipe support characters. On a 4+ save hero they'll easily deal 2 damage and Lady O hopefully deals d6(+1) mortal wounds.

Hmm, makes me wonder if a second unit with Dreadblade Harrow would be worth it. As Lady O always counts as general, when she issues All-Out attack for the first Crossboos, the Dreadblade will copy it for free for the second Crossboos.

Edited May 2, 2022 by The_Dudemeister

[Bayul]

5 hours ago, Nevar said:

Popping in to see what the general opinion was of the new rules. Most of what I read is as expected.

Only question I have... has anything in the leaks made anyone think the Crossboos are worth their points?  I mean... battleline with Kurdoss isn't the worst... but even with auto wound on 6's their expected damage even firing every turn is laughable.

I don't think they are. I still can't believe it's 115 points for just 5 models. It would be nice if they were a viable ambush unit, but I don't think we will see them until their points drop. 

[relic456]

Might have to try and find a KoS on steed on eBay if they don't release it with the book.  That "follow me" rule when they attack would gel well with the dreadscythe harridans

Edited May 3, 2022 by relic456

[Neck-Romantic]

If youve got spare parts from building Hexwraiths you can make a solid KoSoES 

[The_Dudemeister]

Only realized just now. We didn't get free faction terrain. 

[frostfire]

Are Bladegheist still worth taking?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

57 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Only realized just now. We didn't get free faction terrain. 

Not the worst thing in the world. At least that means Nighthaunt players don't need to buy a terrain kit to unlock one of their allegiance abilities.

On a related note, make sure to grab the Sigmarite Mausoleum if you want some spooky terrain. It seems to have just recently disappeared from the webstore and 3rd party retailers still have it in stock.

[Rachmani]

28 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Are Bladegheist still worth taking?

They basically got their own subfaction.

If that turns out to be good (or good enough), then they‘ll be good, too. 
From reading through it, it looks strong. Bladegheists do mortals on the charge in that subfaction.

[Landohammer]

14 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Their damage output is really weak. However they play very nice with Harridans who need a big model to be wounded or slain chaff in the current turn. Even against 3+ saves you're almost guaranteed to plink off a wound, so they can make Harridans stay supercharged indefinitely

 

Also I'm pleasantly surprised they got a 4+ save. The card you get in Arena of Shades shows them at a 5+.

They're in a weird spot, along with Banshees and Glaivewraiths. On the one hand, among our cheapest units, on the other hand too situational to be a mainstay of the army. That's why I rate the ability to become battleline really low on them. But they certainly do have their uses

 

Personally I'll try them with Lady Olynder to snipe support characters. On a 4+ save hero they'll easily deal 2 damage and Lady O hopefully deals d6(+1) mortal wounds.

Hmm, makes me wonder if a second unit with Dreadblade Harrow would be worth it. As Lady O always counts as general, when she issues All-Out attack for the first Crossboos, the Dreadblade will copy it for free for the second Crossboos.

I can't see any situation where Crossboos are a relevant take. A single kruciator brings a lot more to the table, is more survivable, AND can reliably plink wounds to buff harridans. If I truly wanted meaningful shooting output I would spam Chainghasts, bring Olynder, or bring a shooty Black Coach build. 

24 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Are Bladegheist still worth taking?

I think so. If I had to make a prediction on what the "net list" NH list would be, it would be bladegheist revenant spam in Scarlet Doom. The relatively reliable mortal wound output and battleline status is hard to pass up. 

I think our biggest weakness is going to be having to deal with high save units popping all-out-defense, since ALOT of our profiles have no rend. Bladegheists shine here, especially if they hit that magic 8+ charge roll. 

 

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Only realized just now. We didn't get free faction terrain. 

This is a win. Trust me. Sylvaneth is my main army and having to transport a separate container just for forests (that often never make it to the table) is a nightmare. 

[lare2]

On Dreadscythe, I really loved them prior to this book but I can't seem to get them to work, in theory. Anyone any ideas? 

On a related note, disappointed to see there's only 1 crone allowed per 10. My units are now illegal... fortunately I've a number of unbuilt spares. 

[Boggler]

34 minutes ago, lare2 said:

On a related note, disappointed to see there's only 1 crone allowed per 10. My units are now illegal... fortunately I've a number of unbuilt spares. 

It's really dumb how they went back and forth with this scroll. I have 20 assembled, with 4 crones. I'm just going to paint 2 of the crones with a different mask. The 4 arm models look awesome.

[EnixLHQ]

Official preview posted today: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/03/the-ethereal-nighthaunt-are-now-even-tougher-to-banish-back-to-the-realm-of-death/

[Izotzuhure]

The new tome sounds like a lot of fun! The Cairn Wraith with the -3(-4) scythe and hatred for the living could be a nice way to deal with hordes or to kill a hero next to a big unit. Silly, but cool. Also, the Horrorghast seems quite strong combined with Terrified. 

Glavewraiths look like the perfect unit to tank Unleash hell from a redeploy/teleport with a potential +4 to charge. 

[EnixLHQ]

I wish the leaks had a search function. I'm looking for the various interactions with terrify. Anyone got a quick list?

Also, am I right reading that terrify is just a function of being within 3" of any NH unit and at base prevents Inspiring Presence?

[Arzalyn]

22 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

I wish the leaks had a search function. I'm looking for the various interactions with terrify. Anyone got a quick list?

Also, am I right reading that terrify is just a function of being within 3" of any NH unit and at base prevents Inspiring Presence?

In my understanding yes, while the unit is within 3" of any Nighthaunt unit it is terrified.

I will try to categorize them bellow. There isn't much that interact with it, but there a good amount of effects that happen while a unit is near (like the Lord executioner debuff, it will terrify the ones affected by it but don't care about terrified).

Things that need a unit to be terrified/are buffed if the unit is terrified:

Spoiler

Artefacts

Reapers Sorrow - Rend improve goes from -3 to -4 if the target unit is terrified.

Battle tactics

Mass Panic - complete if 3 or more enemy units are terrified.

Ceaseless Nightmares - complete if 2 or more terrified units fail battleshock.

Grand Strategy

Feed on Terror - compelte if 1 or more enemy units are terrified at the end of the match.

Warscrolls

Krulghats - reduce damage to nighthaunt units by 1 if within 12" of a terrified unit.

Tomb Banshee - Add 1 to the roll if the target is terrified.

Shyish Reaper - Add 1 to the roll (to see if it deal mortal wound) if the unit is terrified.

Things that change how terrified work:

Spoiler

Command Trait

Terrifying entity - change terrified to within 6" of the hero with this trait.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Arzalyn

[Landohammer]

5 hours ago, lare2 said:

On Dreadscythe, I really loved them prior to this book but I can't seem to get them to work, in theory. Anyone any ideas? 

On a related note, disappointed to see there's only 1 crone allowed per 10. My units are now illegal... fortunately I've a number of unbuilt spares. 

They work just fine. You just have to keep them in units of 10 and multi-charge them. Like I said earlier, I support them with either a Kruciator or a black coach to make sure I plink wounds off before they activate.

Just make sure you avoid units with standard 3+ saves. You absolutely do not want these ladies running into a potential 2+ save. Thats what Kurdoss and the Coach are for. 

[lare2]

3 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

They work just fine. You just have to keep them in units of 10 and multi-charge them. Like I said earlier, I support them with either a Kruciator or a black coach to make sure I plink wounds off before they activate.

Just make sure you avoid units with standard 3+ saves. You absolutely do not want these ladies running into a potential 2+ save. Thats what Kurdoss and the Coach are for. 

Thanks for the pointers. I run them in my PtG campaign so will see how they do there before jumping into matched play with them. 

Honest Wargamer's done the below. I enjoy his vids. About to start watching it whilst doing the dishes.