Rumours on low Dominion sales - discussion

[Bosskelot]

Being over-produced is also a valid explanation without it necessarily equating to being a sales bomb too.

Like, it's still available on the GW web store and LGS' are struggling to shift the copies they have. Obviously this is good for potential consumers (and we should all prioritize that over unfeeling faceless corpo profits) but I really can't fathom a world in which GW intended for Dominion to still be on sale with the Starter Boxes also being available.

[The World Tree]

Expect a second wind when the new books come out - if they are solid books, the appeal of cheap forces will drive things up. At the moment both factions are in a sorry state.

[Noserenda]

As i understand it the initial projections for the 40k version should have lasted until Christmas-ish, i suspect the same would be true of Dominion. It was a one and done thing but not suspected to instantly sell out! 

[NinthMusketeer]

Planning for it to last through the rest of the year and still be available for Christmas does seem like a good strategy.

[Battlefury]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:47 AM, Noserenda said:

As i understand it the initial projections for the 40k version should have lasted until Christmas-ish, i suspect the same would be true of Dominion. It was a one and done thing but not suspected to instantly sell out! 

If you really think, that GW didn't think it would be sold out very very fast, you should watch their Annual Report 2021:

https://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2020-21-accounts-full-report-cover.pdf

 

Strategy:

1. Bring a new product & hype it on the "community" ( advertisement ) website
2. Release it in limited numbers, so the cost of production stays low
3. watch it being sold out within minutes, becasue the loyal fanbase will buy it regardless of anything
4. make $, because the production was cheap, but now the profit is huge
5. Don't support this product further, switch to another one
6. Bring a new product and put all the ressources in this...again
7. rinse and repeat

Why?

Make absolutely sure, that the product sales, even when the prices are raised by average 10% ( also for the old kits, see Ork released products for 40k ). The loyal fans will buy anything, because they will lie to themselves about the business strategy, because they don't want to have a bad conscience, so they excuse their buing decisions with "a company has to make money". And therefore they will write nasty stuff under your statements, to invalidate your points, so they can feel good about bad stuff. Often enoug, they don't see, that GW alienates the community and turns them into consumption zombies to milk all the money from them. Those are then the "loyal" fans.

[SunStorm]

Just for people who don't have the time to read the full annual report (it's a long slog), nowhere in it does it list the strategy outlined above, that is an opinion.

[Battlefury]

10 hours ago, SunStorm said:

Just for people who don't have the time to read the full annual report (it's a long slog), nowhere in it does it list the strategy outlined above, that is an opinion.

And that's your opinion, because you didn't read it.

[Noserenda]

I mean, using something written most of a year later in an effort to make everything look deliberate is pretty questionable in the first place, but especially when it is not borne out by GWs actual actions with made to order and less sanitised sources thoughts.

They certainly do encourage FOMO marketing but they dont want to be running a scalpers paradise or hosting Saturday morning panic swarms. Thats all been pretty clear recently.

Plus, y'know, a whole pillar of that scheme you made up there is abandoning projects, whiiiich is just nonsense. The only example being Cursed city which has clearly been a total ****** up rather than any intentional plan

[NinthMusketeer]

21 hours ago, Battlefury said:

If you really think, that GW didn't think it would be sold out very very fast, you should watch their Annual Report 2021:

https://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2020-21-accounts-full-report-cover.pdf

 

Strategy:

1. Bring a new product & hype it on the "community" ( advertisement ) website
2. Release it in limited numbers, so the cost of production stays low
3. watch it being sold out within minutes, becasue the loyal fanbase will buy it regardless of anything
4. make $, because the production was cheap, but now the profit is huge
5. Don't support this product further, switch to another one
6. Bring a new product and put all the ressources in this...again
7. rinse and repeat

Why?

Make absolutely sure, that the product sales, even when the prices are raised by average 10% ( also for the old kits, see Ork released products for 40k ). The loyal fans will buy anything, because they will lie to themselves about the business strategy, because they don't want to have a bad conscience, so they excuse their buing decisions with "a company has to make money". And therefore they will write nasty stuff under your statements, to invalidate your points, so they can feel good about bad stuff. Often enoug, they don't see, that GW alienates the community and turns them into consumption zombies to milk all the money from them. Those are then the "loyal" fans.

This demonstrates the lack of comprehension I am speaking of. The idea that customers are buying the product because they see it as having a legitimate value worth the expense does not even occur. Think about that. The above reasoning baseline assumes that no one would actually purchase GW product unless manipulated into doing so. The perception of reality is so distorted that the very idea that people have different subjective values of products isn't even considered.

Edited September 8, 2021 by NinthMusketeer

[Greyshadow]

I have just noticed a new banner note is appearing on the Australian GW website. It states 'Only a few copies of this limited-run boxed set are left, get yours soon'. Perhaps, we are starting to see the point in time where this set might sell out. (Note that we are experiencing a pretty significant COVID delta outbreak in Australia and our vaccination rates are still relatively low compared to the US and UK. The two most populous states have large lock downs so there might have been an uptick in sales due to so many of us (myself included) being stuck at home. The situation with international shipping has also seen a lot of warnings in our local media about the need to organise Christmas gifts now. 

If you are in Australia and were planning to buy Dominion it might be time to consider placing an order. (I expect their would be quite a few copies in local gaming stores for some time after the web store sells out).

Edited September 9, 2021 by Greyshadow

[Gareth 🍄]

GW has reduced Dominion's price on their website to £87.50 until the 8th of November, as part of a Warhammer Day sale.

[RexHavoc]

GW who never do sales, who put out a twitch stream egging people to queue in a virtual queue and buy dominion immediately on release as it was limited & was going to sell out quickly even with all the copies they made, with characters models that would not be available anywhere else (possible for ever, possible for 6 months, who knows with them), with a brand new orc army with a strong WFB aesthetic and with enough FOMO advertising and hype to rival kill team, all with it coming off the release of the FOMO & panic over the botched cursed city release. And yet here we are.

I'm sure some people will still try to defend this as them over estimating stock levels by a small amount or that not everyone wanted more stormcast in a big set or that some didn't want the full rule book and 2 new armies so have the smaller sets or perhaps people didn't want the big collections edition rulebook over the bog standard art (as if people don't try to collect every other limited edition book)

But clearly AoS is not selling in the amounts that they wanted/expected it too.

Its not a good sign for the life of the game, for those that want the game to remain supported.
 

[Baron Klatz]

I mean it was already stated before on here by Australia shops. When they usually get 20-30 kits ordered for Dominion they got flooded with up to 60 while stuff like the 40k squig orks they got like 1 box which is why that stuff sells out so fast. And then they put out the 3 cheaper starter kits before Dominion had been out for long driving down demand.

You really need to visit more positive sites like AoS reddit who are booming and ecstatic over the new edition or any of the new AoS3 youtube channels with how well it's doing.

You've been a worrywort over AoS since 2nd edition launched when you thought it wasn't attracting a crowd and they were gonna smash the realms together into a singular planet.

 

Anyway that price drop is Noice. Definitely competing with my interest in grabbing the lowered Catacombs too.

[JackStreicher]

26 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

Its not a good sign for the life of the game, for those that want the game to remain supported.

This is an overreaction.

There are so many factors that jumping to this conclusion isn’t logical.

1. Over-production: usually GW destroys left stock. This however might not be financially viable since they‘ve produced too much.

2. Price-Breaking point: Maybe those boxes lately were simply too expensive and a certain percentage of people did not buy the models at that price

3. Overestimated demand: SCE and Orcs aren’t the most favorite AoS armies. Overestimating demand let to 1.

4. Trying out new sale methods 

 

imo some boxes were clearly 2. (the scenery Card board boxes) 

Dominion was a mix of 1. 2. 3.

Yet all of this culminated in 4.

[Baron Klatz]

Indeed. I think your point 2 folds into a secondary thing about Dominion in that it's not a "Beginner" Starter kit but more an expansion for players already in the game.

A lot of newbies were turned away from the lack of low-point entry rules Dominion lacked so logically went to the Warrior starter which was intentionally made for them to start AoS.

On another note I think how fast the Stormcast Vindictors went to "temporarily out of stock" on the site despite over-saturating all the releases plus free model month is a good tell that a lot of people (both vets wanting sturdy immortal spearmen added to their Order forces and beginners wanting to build on the magazine & freebie vindictors) just were waiting for them than a set of extras like the orruks they didn't want.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[SunStorm]

Maybe GW did listen to all the complaints about previous boxes that sold out too quickly or were bought up by scalpers. They wanted to make sure they made enough to satisfy all of the potential demand and overestimated (by some margin)

As other people have said I think at contributing factor could be the Orruks, while I love the design, they're not the most beginner friendly to paint up, with so much detail it can be overwhelming. The 40k box of Necrons and Space marines was 2 easy to paint armies and also has a larger playerbase for new marines.

So while it's positive that GW do try to listen to consumers, the potential negative side is they oversteer back to the old way, under produce the next big boxset and we are back to scalpers and limited stocks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gareth 🍄]

They're out of the freebies you got with ordering Dominion on their website and apparently they had 33,000 of those.

[yukishiro1]

Dominion did fine by any reasonable measure, they just got too big for their britches and thought that SCE could have the same appeal as Space Marines, and they just...don't. GW clearly wants them to, they flood them with barely distinguishable releases every single edition like they do with Space Marines. They must be scratching their heads as to why it hasn't worked the same way in AOS as it has in 40k, but it hasn't, and it was always a mistake to assume that you could sell a starter set to 40% of your player base in AOS the way you can in 40k. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by yukishiro1

[ArkanautDadmiral]

9 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

This is an overreaction.

There are so many factors that jumping to this conclusion isn’t logical.

1. Over-production: usually GW destroys left stock. This however might not be financially viable since they‘ve produced too much.

2. Price-Breaking point: Maybe those boxes lately were simply too expensive and a certain percentage of people did not buy the models at that price

3. Overestimated demand: SCE and Orcs aren’t the most favorite AoS armies. Overestimating demand let to 1.

4. Trying out new sale methods 

 

imo some boxes were clearly 2. (the scenery Card board boxes) 

Dominion was a mix of 1. 2. 3.

Yet all of this culminated in 4.

Second time I’ve seen you make this ‘he destroys leftover stock comment’. Can you please explain this more? How are they destroying it? What stock are they destroying?

Of all the bad press GW gets I’ve not heard about them dumping or destroying stock and considering it’s non recyclable or degradable plastic (that I’d expect has a nasty environmental impact if it’s burned too) I’d expect it to be a pretty big deal, yet it never comes up in the general GW critiques.

Please explain.

[Enoby]

27 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Second time I’ve seen you make this ‘he destroys leftover stock comment’. Can you please explain this more? How are they destroying it? What stock are they destroying?

Of all the bad press GW gets I’ve not heard about them dumping or destroying stock and considering it’s non recyclable or degradable plastic (that I’d expect has a nasty environmental impact if it’s burned too) I’d expect it to be a pretty big deal, yet it never comes up in the general GW critiques.

Please explain.

This is a guess and someone else will likely be able to provide a better answer, but I imagine they keep the plastic and put them into single boxes to sell at full price, recycle the paper/cardboard, and trash anything that can't be reused or recycled.

[eciu]

7 hours ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

They're out of the freebies you got with ordering Dominion on their website and apparently they had 33,000 of those.

Or they got recycled. 

We don't know. 

[Gareth 🍄]

3 minutes ago, eciu said:

We don't know. 

Indeed. All we're doing here is speculating.

[Baron Klatz]

4 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

They must be scratching their heads as to why it hasn't worked the same way in AOS as it has in 40k

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. GW aren't scratching their heads, they're patting eachother on the backs for solid sales numbers Stormcasts provide because they fill three criteria.

Iconic army that scream "Age of Sigmar" at a glance and are excellent starting gateways with their easy to paint large bodies and smooth high fantasy armor.

Among the most popular armies with a large active fanbase across multiple forums like facebook and reddit. Like how every time they do a "Show us your Armies!" Stormcast posts outnumber the other AoS armies by easily a hundred on both their Facebook and twitter.

And the biggest point that put them ahead at the beginning. Space Marine & Chaos Knight conversion material. Dominion gave a lot of 40k players the Thunder Warriors they always wanted and warhammer reddit was covered in Salamander memes about wanting to convert the new Drakeguard with a quick backpack slap-on.

Solid starters, big fanbase and piggyback off Astartes sales makes Stormcast's place cemented as the future posterboys because they give reliable sales.

Small price to pay if it's what's guaranteeing bigger and better AoS support that goes out to the other armies of the Mortal Realms.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[ArkanautDadmiral]

11 hours ago, Enoby said:

This is a guess and someone else will likely be able to provide a better answer, but I imagine they keep the plastic and put them into single boxes to sell at full price, recycle the paper/cardboard, and trash anything that can't be reused or recycled.

That’s not what he’s said both times though, only that they destroy left over stock. The true stock is the plastic. If it’s being resold in different packaging that’s not destroyed stock.

Im really interested in this because I’d been trying to find ways to recycle or repurpose sprues on a larger level than personal hobby so I could organise for my local community to drop them off at a hobby centre to be disposed of in a more environmentally friendly way than just being binned.

To hear GW destroy stock is pretty big, for all the criticism they get I can’t believe it’s one that’s not brought up more often at all.

I have to say I find it unbelievable they’d destroy perfectly good stock that’s obviously not perishable, especially in reference to a box set that’s been out less than a year? I’ve worked for a company that makes dried, but still perishable goods for nearly 9 years and I don’t think we’ve once had to destroy ‘leftover stock’. Maybe I’ll make another topic.

[Bosskelot]

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. GW aren't scratching their heads, they're patting eachother on the backs for solid sales numbers Stormcasts provide because they fill three criteria.

Iconic army that scream "Age of Sigmar" at a glance and are excellent starting gateways with their easy to paint large bodies and smooth high fantasy armor.

Among the most popular armies with a large active fanbase across multiple forums like facebook and reddit. Like how every time they do a "Show us your Armies!" Stormcast posts outnumber the other AoS armies by easily a hundred on both their Facebook and twitter.

And the biggest point that put them ahead at the beginning. Space Marine & Chaos Knight conversion material. Dominion gave a lot of 40k players the Thunder Warriors they always wanted and warhammer reddit was covered in Salamander memes about wanting to convert the new Drakeguard with a quick backpack slap-on.

Solid starters, big fanbase and piggyback off Astartes sales makes Stormcast's place cemented as the future posterboys because they give reliable sales.

Small price to pay if it's what's guaranteeing bigger and better AoS support that goes out to the other armies of the Mortal Realms.

No-one seriously bought Dominion to make Thunder Warriors. Are you actually serious?

In terms of absolute success of Dominion GW will obviously never say anything, but I really can't help but think it has been a disappointment to them, but only out of misplaced expectations.

It's like how the Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 "only" sold 4.2 million copies and was considered a financial failure by it's publisher. 4.2 mil is still absolutely insane numbers, but the amount they poured into advertising, a poorly financially managed development and their own ridiculous expectations that Tomb Raider could do CoD numbers lead to the absurdity of a millions-selling game being considered a financial disappointment at best and a failure at worst. Meanwhile Dark Souls went on to sell 3 million copies and was the most successful game that developer had ever made up until that point, so successful the director/creator of the game was promoted to company president. All because they had realistic expectations about sales (which ended up being massively smashed anyway) and budgeted sensibly.

With Dominion if it has sold even half of Indomitus that's honestly really, really impressive considering the relative size of the games. From an objective point of view, that's pretty good. But considering this was meant to be a limited-run box and they produced potentially more of it than they did Indomitus, how pleased will the GW suits really be with its performance? This was not meant to still be on sale 4 months later with a 30% discount off on the webstore. They clearly also did not want it still taking up shelf space by the time the starter sets were coming out.