Lumineth Aesthetics

[elfhead]

4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

If I came across as accusitory that someone likes something, I apologise for not being clearer.

I may not agree with conclusion about elements from the models, but everyone has their own tastes, and even in my opinion, almost everything about the models looks very well.

Not that my opinion about the models is all that important if you enjoy them.

I didn't have anyone particular in mind with my post. 

I also like to remind myself that a lot of people in this community don't have English as their native tongue, and without the non-verbal communication it is easy to misunderstand each other.  another reason to be kind. 

 

[Bosskelot]

7 hours ago, LordAlpharius said:

I really do not see any evidence  of the Lumineth being more polarizing than fyreslayers, ossiarch bonereapers, stormcast eternals etc, and  should avoid making inferences about the general sentiment towards certain ranges based on online discussions involving a few dozen people at best (the only real indicator for the popularity of range is sales numbers which we dont have). 

Well, this widens the discussion to how well the aesthetics of AOS have been received in general and yeah, there's lots of mixed stuff there.

As for sales numbers from FLGS and even GW stores we know fairly certainly that Fyreslayers are perhaps the biggest bomb GW have ever made, bigger than even Tomb Kings. As for Lumineth, Element Games still have 200+ of the "Limited Edition" release boxes sitting in their warehouse not moving.

[Howdyhedberg]

I think most of the units look pretty good! The cow looks alright, but not for me. I don't mind the stone mage (it's the head I think). I wasn't that excited about Teclis & celenars face, but I still bought it. 

 

My favorite unit is the Dawnriders, sadly they are the most challenging thing I've painted in my life!

[Tiger]

Half / half.

I have a slight dislike to Alarith Stoneguard.  The centre of the miniature should be lowered than it is, but the oversized helmet moves it upwards. On the upside, it was the model from Direchasm that helped to put things into more correct perspective. GW photos tend to be very up close, while realistically you'll be seeing them from a larger distance. It helps a bit.

Mage girl. I think it was a Spanish designer who corrected the design in 3 minutes after seeing one.  No one argued that his design wasn't better. It's "fine" as it is, but after seeing the alternative design, it'll always feel like a missed opportunity.

Stone King. -_-''?

Teclis. I guess he needs to be a centrepiece now, *fine*.

The rest is fine - okey, to me Eltharion is the crown jewel of the release.

Endless spells - rather uninspiring.

Waiting for Swordmasters v2 and wind mages for the moment. Wonder if we're going to see fox spirits.

[Fulkes]

I've been thinking about what's wrong with Teclis and I think it's because something is missing from the model: namely the magic.

He looks like he's channelling so much magical energy that it's lifting him into the air, but the paint job doesn't sell that and there is nothing around him to help sell the sensation (like Nagash's swirling books, or the Prime's magic-nado).

It's a techically well executed model, but that lack of visual to show he's channelling magic (say by making his eyes, open hand and end of staff look like they're glowing with power) lets the concept down.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Fulkes

[Neverchosen]

20 minutes ago, Fulkes said:

I've been thinking about what's wrong with Teclis and I think it's because something is missing from the model: namely the magic.

He looks like he's channelling so much magical energy that it's lifting him into the air, but the paint job doesn't sell that and there is nothing around him to help sell the sensation (like Nagash's swirling books, or the Prime's magic-nado).

It's a techically well executed model, but that lack of visual to show he's channelling magic (say by making his eyes, open hand and end of staff look like they're glowing with power) lets the concept down.

I dunno I think Teclis' art is fantastic and has only the hint of magic, if they captured it a little more in the sculpt and Paint Job I would have liked him much more. I think that the effect of floating isn't sold well (especially next to the amazing Eltharion) and his arms in the air is really silly. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Fulkes]

True, the more dynamic art would have been better, I was just looking at the sculpt they went with instead and why I think it falls a bit short.

[NotAWzrd]

4 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

I dunno I think Teclis' art is fantastic and has only the hint of magic, if they captured it a little more in the sculpt and Paint Job I would have liked him much more. I think that the effect of floating isn't sold well (especially next to the amazing Eltharion) and his arms in the air is really silly. 

I loved the art of Teclis, and so it really baffles me as to why they went for the pose they did. There’s a great conversion out there that fixes him to mirror the art but it doesn’t look all that easy to achieve.  

On the Lumineth aesthetic though, I do love what they are doing with the elemental aligned factions. There’s a lot of Indo-Asian inspiration behind them, including the shift from a typical fantasy approach to magic to a more spiritual inspired one. For starters, the idea that the Alarith can so perfectly control their posture and core to the point of wielding great hammers and balancing their centre of gravity on the tops of their heads is the most outrageously elven thing ever. That inspiration could also be seen in the iconography of the crescent moon within the horns of the Alarith, a possible reference to cattle’s sacredness in Hinduism, as well as potentially seeing influences of Taoism and Shintoism in some of the upcoming models like the Sun Wukong-esque cloud rider or the Fox spirit.

Maybe it’s all down to GW’s branding focus, the desire to protect an IP in Age of Sigmar better than they could with the Old World, but I’m really appreciating the shift from classic fantasy tropes to a stranger, more unpredictable world. 

The Aelves in particular have completely taken on a new visual identity in AoS related to this, each being a somewhat darker, metamorphosed version of their Old World selves. Sylvaneth physically merging with the woods and forests of their realms, DoK with their snake hybrids, the Idoneth becoming soulless and aquatic, and now the Lumineth. The Umbraneth may even end up trumping them all with its speculated shadow and draconic forms. A lot of factions aesthetics seem to reflect the unstable nature of the realms and the magic within, as the world and lore mirrors the infancy of the IP itself.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by NotAWzrd

[LuminethMage]

What's really interesting for me to see going through these posts is - how big an influence initial associations color our reactions to the models (or at least that's what it looks like to me). 

As an example, for me, when I first saw the Teclis model and his pose, I was immediately thinking of the scene of the Battle of the Finnuval Plain, when Teclis floated over the battle field and struck Malekith with a bolt of light. I thought that must have been the pose he took there. So I found it cool, but looking at all the memes, most people seem to associate totally different things with that pose. Not that I don't think the art pose is great (I love that art piece), or might even have been better, but still, my initial impression was "wow, cool". 

I do agree with magical effects missing - not only from the Teclis model, but in general. I felt the same thing with the Myari model. One of the main aspects of them is their magic, and besides floating, it isn't shown much anywhere (the smoke on the Cathallar). And GW has become pretty good with some of the magical effects, like on the sorcerer in the upcoming Chaos Underworlds Warband. 

5 hours ago, Tiger said:

...

Waiting for Swordmasters v2 and wind mages for the moment. Wonder if we're going to see fox spirits.

If they don't give us the full temple with a fox wind spirit, I'd be disappointed. The description in the Battletome sounds really interesting, not only as a model, but looks like this would be a kind of teleporting unit, which can appear all over the battle field. Fingers crossed we'll see it.  

[Greybeard86]

16 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

Well, this widens the discussion to how well the aesthetics of AOS have been received in general and yeah, there's lots of mixed stuff there.

As for sales numbers from FLGS and even GW stores we know fairly certainly that Fyreslayers are perhaps the biggest bomb GW have ever made, bigger than even Tomb Kings. As for Lumineth, Element Games still have 200+ of the "Limited Edition" release boxes sitting in their warehouse not moving.

I know it is a bit off topic, but any references on the Fyreslayer flop? I am sad because I do love slayers as a theme, though perhaps not only slayer after slayer. 

[LuminethMage]

27 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

I know it is a bit off topic, but any references on the Fyreslayer flop? I am sad because I do love slayers as a theme, though perhaps not only slayer after slayer. 

The two I know of are surveys from Warhammer Weekly last year. One was about army popularity and one was about design popularity. They were dead last in both. By quite a wide margin to the rest of the field (they lost to Lumineth Realm-lords in the "what's your main army" category, while the LRL hadn't even been  fully released at that point). I think both times WW surveyed around 1,000 people or so, and while not perfect (they acknowledge the weaknesses of the polls in their vids) it's pretty good data in comparison to what we normally get. 

There might be additional data too, that's just the ones I know. 

*I only mean as a reference that Fyreslayers probably haven't done very well relatively to other AoS factions so far, not that they might have been the biggest bomb in GW history. I don't know enough about that. 

[Enoby]

25 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

I know it is a bit off topic, but any references on the Fyreslayer flop? I am sad because I do love slayers as a theme, though perhaps not only slayer after slayer. 

I'm not 100% sure, but from what people have said it was a combination of the same-y look of naked dwarfs, some people not loving that look (I've heard 'nappy' thrown around a lot), the lore not grabbing too many people (the 'grit' of the Slayers oath gone and the rest not being well developed at the time), the price without the start collecting was high, and AoS in general was in a strange place when they were released. I know a lot of people say that AoS outsold Fantasy at its inception, but I've never been certain on that - it certainly didn't seem like AoS was a massive success at launch, though it is when I started so maybe there were a lot of beginners.

[Greybeard86]

29 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

The two I know of are surveys from Warhammer Weekly last year. One was about army popularity and one was about design popularity. They were dead last in both. By quite a wide margin to the rest of the field (they lost to Lumineth Realm-lords in the "what's your main army" category, while the LRL hadn't even been  fully released at that point). I think both times WW surveyed around 1,000 people or so, and while not perfect (they acknowledge the weaknesses of the polls in their vids) it's pretty good data in comparison to what we normally get. 

There might be additional data too, that's just the ones I know. 

*I only mean as a reference that Fyreslayers probably haven't done very well relatively to other AoS factions so far, not that they might have been the biggest bomb in GW history. I don't know enough about that. 

Much appreciated! 10 minutes scrolling through their tweets and no luck, if any kind soul has the survey at hand, I'd appreciate a link.

11 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'm not 100% sure, but from what people have said it was a combination of the same-y look of naked dwarfs, some people not loving that look (I've heard 'nappy' thrown around a lot), the lore not grabbing too many people (the 'grit' of the Slayers oath gone and the rest not being well developed at the time), the price without the start collecting was high, and AoS in general was in a strange place when they were released. I know a lot of people say that AoS outsold Fantasy at its inception, but I've never been certain on that - it certainly didn't seem like AoS was a massive success at launch, though it is when I started so maybe there were a lot of beginners.

Personally, I haven't pulled the trigger on them because of similar reasons. In fact, not to derail further, I posted a topic on that.

 

 

[LuminethMage]

21 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Much appreciated! 10 minutes scrolling through their tweets and no luck, if any kind soul has the survey at hand, I'd appreciate a link.

Personally, I haven't pulled the trigger on them because of similar reasons. In fact, not to derail further, I posted a topic on that.

 

 

Sure, should have been more clear, they are on YouTube, and I misremembered the titles, so was hard to find for you : )

Aesthetics

Balance

Slide on army popularity: 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Greybeard86]

Much appreciated, thanks a ton!

[someone2040]

I have picked up an army to start in the new year.

I'm comfortable enough with all the more standard stuff (Pikes, Bows, Cavalry). I do like the old helmet designs, I think these are a bit more akin to the Lord of the Rings designs they have for Elves, but happy enough with how they look.

The Stoneguard I dislike the helmets. The hammers I was initially not happy with, but feel like they've grown on me. But the helmets just look silly to me, far too top heavy (the fact that many people use the top part as the actual head just emphasizes that fact to me). I'm still thinking about what I want to do with mine.

Funnily enough I don't mind the Stonemage. I think it's because it avoids the top-heaviness above by integrating the cow-face into the helm around the head.

I don't have much an opinion either way on the rest. Teclis could look better, but I think what we have is fine. I think I'll have more of an opinion on the models once I have them built in the flesh rather than relying on 360's on the Games Workshop page.

[Aelfric]

On 1/5/2021 at 8:48 PM, Fulkes said:

I've been thinking about what's wrong with Teclis and I think it's because something is missing from the model: namely the magic.

He looks like he's channelling so much magical energy that it's lifting him into the air, but the paint job doesn't sell that and there is nothing around him to help sell the sensation (like Nagash's swirling books, or the Prime's magic-nado).

It's a techically well executed model, but that lack of visual to show he's channelling magic (say by making his eyes, open hand and end of staff look like they're glowing with power) lets the concept down.

There's a cloud boat coming soon.  You could put Teclis in one.

[Fulkes]

15 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

There's a cloud boat coming soon.  You could put Teclis in one.

I don't think so. It looks maybe 40mm wide tops.

[Popisdead]

I'm not aware of the heated debate (just ignorant of it, and i'm not going to go search it through) but a local player was really vocal about not liking them.  He was set to buy in hard too.   

Initially I liked what they did.  It looked good.  Over time the models, have come across a little bland to me but I'm a WE player at heart and the aesthetic of HE-style models is boring to me anyway.

Overall I don't think it's a stellar release, I think Teclis is fine, a bit staid.  I guess it seems a polarizing army ?