Make NAGASH great again.

[Cid]

I love Nagash and death but its so sad that they make him so unplayable its not even fun . Why have LEGIONS OF NAGASH !!!! if no one is scared to play them. If anything they are happy to, because its an easy win. Yeah sure playing lore is lots of fun but owning a God and never winning with him or just keeping him collecting dust is just depressing. Specially Nagash who is at the center of the lore atm. AM i just crazy or is 880 points waaaaaaay too much for pitched battles. ??? am i missing something? 

[JackStreicher]

He‘s pointed for the use in Ossiarch Bonereapers which make him ridiculously strong due to the spells and traits he gets access to.

and yes he‘s hard to justify in LoN.

you could play him and surround him with huge blobs of Skeletons though =}

[NJohansson]

Nagash is either fairly middle of the pack (sometimes just worthless) to absolute ridiculous depending on actual list/what your opponent is playing. Lowering his cost would unfortunately make him of the charts in some of the more frequent competitive Death lists.

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Cid said:

I love Nagash and death but its so sad that they make him so unplayable its not even fun . Why have LEGIONS OF NAGASH !!!! if no one is scared to play them. If anything they are happy to, because its an easy win. Yeah sure playing lore is lots of fun but owning a God and never winning with him or just keeping him collecting dust is just depressing. Specially Nagash who is at the center of the lore atm. AM i just crazy or is 880 points waaaaaaay too much for pitched battles. ??? am i missing something? 

This says more about the horrendous state that LoN are in more than Nagash himself. LoN are a long way behind in the meta these days with other armies able to do almost everything better. I remember the days of 40 skellies wrecking anything they got close to.... 

[sal4m4nd3r]

Should 40 skeletons be able to wreck anything they come close to though? At the onset the damage output from a basic battleline unit was dumb. That is until the faq that seemingly for monetary reasons they let grimghasts just able to be in LoN army. 

[JackStreicher]

Imo this list is still rather strong:

 

 

admittedly the list is a bit monotone 🤣

[DantePQ]

Nagash is still ultra-strony. Tony Moore even made some big runs with him in Reapers list. He don't need any buffs. Legion of Nagash is still very strong for many reasons. Assuming he is not is just wrong. Sure LoN Nagash list isn't S-Tier but it still strong enough to go to 4-1 at biggest events. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by DantePQ

[NinthMusketeer]

Something to keep in mind is that any time a single model or unit takes up such a large portion of a list the balance will be wonky--it could be very strong or very weak based on context. That is simply the nature of having so many eggs in one basket. Taking this further it means that when properly pointed Nagash will simply end up being weak sometimes. If he was always strong that would be a massive red flag.

Second, and this is BIG: Nagash is pointed assuming realmscape rules are in effect. That means he has seven additional spells to draw from based on the realm you are playing in. This increases his utility by an immense margin. Now said rules are not for everyone but understand that if you are not using them that IS a house rule, and one that penalizes Nagash more than any other model in the game.

As for LoN overall. One game I played against them and my opponent had a unit of 30 grimghast reapers which I killed despite him bringing back models to it from gravesites. For 1 cp he returned the unit to play at full strength, and I killed it again despite him bringing back models to it from gravesites. For 1 cp he returned the unit to play at full strength again, and I was well into killing it off a third time when the game ended. He paid points for 30 grimghasts and ended up deploying over 100. As his opponent that was not fun for me. At all. An army with allegiance mechanics of such potency will never be balanced because the units need to be pitiful to compensate, which just creates a whole new set of issues.

Edited April 16, 2020 by NinthMusketeer

[lare2]

2 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

and I was well into killing it off a third time when the game ended

Out of curiosity, what were you running to kill this many grimghast? I very rarely lose my 30 the once. 

Be nice to know what to avoid in the future. Cheers.

Edited April 16, 2020 by lare2

[swarmofseals]

@Cid you're definitely missing something. Nagash has showed up in very competitive lists recently (albeit largely in an OBR shell). It's my understanding that these lists aren't just something that you can point and click with, but take some practice to learn.

Just remember that in Petrifex Elite he has a built in 2+ save and rerolls 1's with his own command ability, a 6+ shrug and a 4+ mortal wound shrug on top of that. AND he has significant self healing. He's incredibly difficult to kill.

Does he do enough damage to justify his points cost? Probably not. With realm spells in effect in particular he can do a lot of work -- 8 spells at +3 to cast is very strong. He won't do as much raw damage as spending the points on more clear-cut offense focused units though.

Remember though: AOS is about objectives, not tabling the opponent. 

[Cid]

Awesome responses fellow gamers i do appreciate it, makes me see i'm just not playing it right so i will keep trying.  Makes me love it more tbh like playing on hard mode but should be very rewarding when i get it down. 

[Cid]

Started to buy Bone reapers models so i can have all DEATH !!!  so maybe ill start to run him under Bone reapers one day. 

[NinthMusketeer]

8 hours ago, lare2 said:

Out of curiosity, what were you running to kill this many grimghast? I very rarely lose my 30 the once. 

Be nice to know what to avoid in the future. Cheers.

Stormfiends with first edition rules, when all models in the unit could have warpfire throwers (which shot 2d3 MWs). Plus their considerable ability to beat things up in melee.

It was at a tournament, so I do not fault the other player for doing what he did. In a friendly game yeah a bit TFG, but at a tourney that is the sort of cheese one needs just to survive.

Edited April 17, 2020 by NinthMusketeer

[zilberfrid]

11 hours ago, lare2 said:

Out of curiosity, what were you running to kill this many grimghast? I very rarely lose my 30 the once. 

Be nice to know what to avoid in the future. Cheers.

They are pretty hard targets at 4+ ethereal, I'd have to use at least 5 gyrocopters. Which I now know I need.

Edited April 17, 2020 by zilberfrid

[lare2]

3 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Stormfiends with first edition rules

Never played them in 1st. Mate runs rats - they're tough cookies.

[Blisterfeet]

Nagash is extremely strong and I am massively against dropping points because you drop here, then someone points to another unit and shouts drop here. Imagine if GW dropped points all the models people talk about be an absolute nightmare. 

Make the warscroll worth the current points if anything. Anyways that is a side point.

Nagash is definitely worth 880 and has a place in OBR and LoN, not every list can be hyper competitive but you can 100% get results with LoN played as explained above. 

[N@g@sh]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:07 PM, Cid said:

I love Nagash and death but its so sad that they make him so unplayable its not even fun . Why have LEGIONS OF NAGASH !!!! if no one is scared to play them. If anything they are happy to, because its an easy win. Yeah sure playing lore is lots of fun but owning a God and never winning with him or just keeping him collecting dust is just depressing. Specially Nagash who is at the center of the lore atm. AM i just crazy or is 880 points waaaaaaay too much for pitched battles. ??? am i missing something? 

 

Although I am not an expert with Pitched battles, Whenever I have taken Nagash, he has always payed off by keeping the other small units intact.

[N@g@sh]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:11 PM, JackStreicher said:

He‘s pointed for the use in Ossiarch Bonereapers which make him ridiculously strong due to the spells and traits he gets access to.

I was thinking, Petrifex Elite Nagash would be OP, 2+ save and re-roll 1s. Also the command ability could be used with other units' command abilities.

[N@g@sh]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:38 PM, NinthMusketeer said:

Something to keep in mind is that any time a single model or unit takes up such a large portion of a list the balance will be wonky--it could be very strong or very weak based on context. That is simply the nature of having so many eggs in one basket. Taking this further it means that when properly pointed Nagash will simply end up being weak sometimes. If he was always strong that would be a massive red flag.

Second, and this is BIG: Nagash is pointed assuming realmscape rules are in effect. That means he has seven additional spells to draw from based on the realm you are playing in. This increases his utility by an immense margin. Now said rules are not for everyone but understand that if you are not using them that IS a house rule, and one that penalizes Nagash more than any other model in the game.

As for LoN overall. One game I played against them and my opponent had a unit of 30 grimghast reapers which I killed despite him bringing back models to it from gravesites. For 1 cp he returned the unit to play at full strength, and I killed it again despite him bringing back models to it from gravesites. For 1 cp he returned the unit to play at full strength again, and I was well into killing it off a third time when the game ended. He paid points for 30 grimghasts and ended up deploying over 100. As his opponent that was not fun for me. At all. An army with allegiance mechanics of such potency will never be balanced because the units need to be pitiful to compensate, which just creates a whole new set of issues.

I can't agree more.

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, N@g@sh said:

I was thinking, Petrifex Elite Nagash would be OP, 2+ save and re-roll 1s. Also the command ability could be used with other units' command abilities.

+ the spell nagash‘s protection which let‘s him teleport out of combat if he wasn‘t killed by the first model attacking him.

[N@g@sh]

7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

+ the spell nagash‘s protection which let‘s him teleport out of combat if he wasn‘t killed by the first model attacking him.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! I think that a new Ossiarch army is coming to my collection.

[Glemcik]

Hello, i'm looking for competitive list with nagash. What should be better?: 3x20 Mortek Guard with Mortisan Boneshaper(Mortek Shield-corps)  or 1x15, 2x5 Kavalos Deathriders with Liege-Kavalos?

[ACBelMutie]

Nowadays Morteks without any doubt. 

Greetings. 

[Sception]

Have you considered nagash, liege, 2x5 kav, 40 mortek, with 120 points left over for endless spells (maybe portals & pendulum, or portals, shrieker, & carrion)?  One big block for mortek helps reinforce battleshields go further, at the very least.

[Archibald]

Is Nagash still playable in LoN? A lot of posts here point him out in a petrifex OBR environment. 
I sold my OBR but still habe the Nagash model. Just because he is awesome!

So i am thinking of a way to bring him to the field. I have a big FEC army, but there would be no synergies between them and Nagash. I also have 10 direwolves and a Necromancer. So i was thinking of buying 40 zombies and go with the following list. Little sidenote: we mostly play 1500p in my area (Ironjaws, OBR, Bloodthirsters, Sylvaneth, Starcast, Fyreslayers, DoK).

1x Nagash 880p

1x Necromancer 130p

5x Direwolves 70p

5x Direwolves 70p

40x Zombies 240p

1390P/1500p

The rest of the points would go into endless spells i guess. So what do you guys think? Is this a playable list in my meta? Or will i get smacked in the ground all the time?